Keith D. Stanglin P.hd: Harding weaving about Instrumental Music

Donnie
Donnie

September 8th, 2010, 3:48 pm #11

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Did you even read the passages concerning the holy spirit OF the Lord Jesus Christ? BTW, let me add one more reference from Scripture:[/color]
  • [color=#FF0000" size="3" face="times]"And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father." (Gal. 4:6)[/color]

    </li>
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]How many times does the Holy Scripture have to identify the Holy Spirit? There are innumerable references to the truth:

(1) That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF the Lord
(2) That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF God
(3) That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF the living God
(4) That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF Christ
(5) That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF Jesus Christ
(6) That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF Him
(7) That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF the Lord God
(8) That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF His Son
(9) That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the holy Spirit OF God
(0) That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF the Father

The problem with you, Dave, is the same problem I had with the preconceived notion that a mere mention of "the Holy Spirit" caused me to instantaneously and automatically think: "the THIRD BEING or PERSON of the TRINITY." But that was and is a fallacious tenet.

Now, I know better -- the scriptures tell me so. So, please don't consider the list and supporting passages as a "tirade" of mine. I have quoted scriptures to help you understand that "spirit" is never a "person" and what the Holy Spirit is "ALSO KNOWN AS" [a.k.a.].

Oh, "the Spirit OF Jesus Christ" -- is it the THIRD PERSON of the Trinity Doctrine while Christ himself is the SECOND PERSON?

OK, I'll even be "nicer" this time: Please, Dave, if you believe that the Spirit OF Jesus Christ is the THIRD PERSON GOD, when do you worship the holy Spirit OF Christ?[/color]
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Dave
Dave

September 10th, 2010, 8:26 pm #12

Donnie,
Did you notice that you were answering for me again? It's akin/similiar to talking to yourself (may even be worse), and that is never good.
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

September 11th, 2010, 12:21 am #13

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Dave,

No, I did not notice that. I am simply waiting for your rebuttal. What's happened to your debating skills? Your silence is deafening. I'm beginning to think that you're now seeing the light. And that's a good sign.[/color]
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Dave
Dave

September 12th, 2010, 2:07 am #14

Donnie, you said that my silence, in answering you, is deafening.

The old saying......'be quiet and be thought a fool, speak up and remove all doubt.'

I like silence, but you on the other hand, like to hear yourself talk.....look at the old saying again.
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a preacher
a preacher

November 1st, 2012, 2:57 pm #15

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Not so fast, Ray.

So, in John 14, the Father will send ... will give....

But in John 16:7ff, "I [Jesus] will send...."

If you study John chapters 14-16 very, very carefully, you will notice that it is not the Person No. 3 of the Trinity Doctrine as you think.

Pay very close attention to the pronouns [I, he, me, etc.] used in those chapters. (For one thing, in NT Greek, in the absence of a pronoun, translators have been guilty of substituting a "he" for an "it" because of a preconceived notion especially in the case of God's holy Spirit to designate a male gender.)

There are more references to the spirit of God as "it" or "which" than "he" or "whom." Again, a translation issue.

A list of 3 entities does not necessarily make it 3 persons.

This will be explained in detail in the next posts.[/color]
Not sure if those on here against the Triune God are Unitarians or bitarians??? In any case, lets let the Bible argue for itself:

There is one God (Deut. 6:4).

The Father is God (1 Cor. 1:3).

The Father is not the Son (Mt. 3:16-17; Jn. 17).

The Father is not the Holy Spirit (Jn. 15:26).

Jesus is God (Jn. 1:1-3).

Jesus is not God the Father (Mt. 3:17).

Jesus is not the Holy Spirit (Mt. 3:16).

The Holy Spirit is God (Acts 5:3-4).

The Holy Spirit is not Jesus (Jn. 14:26).

The Holy Spirit is not the Father (John 15:26).

The Holy Spirit is a person.

On the Greek argument about a supposed absence of pronouns shows a very poor understanding of how the Greek Language works. The gender of the pronoun is determined by the gender of the noun. The word for Spirit is a neuter noun and so naturally, the pronouns referring to it have to be neuter gender (cf. 1 Pet. 1:11). However, the New Testament uses the masculine pronoun at times! John 14:26 has a neuter & masculine pronoun. Ekeinos is masculine. John 16:13-14 is another example.

On the argument using all the verses saying "Holy Spirit OF God" or "Of Christ" also is a bad argument. Let us consider the same type of reasoning: This post is the post OF "a preacher." Therefore, the post is the preacher. Jesus is the Son OF God the Father. Therefore, Jesus and God the Father are not two entities but one. So, Jesus is His own Father and talks to Himself quite a lot... Poor reasoning I must say!

The Fact is, the Holy Spirit has personal masculine pronouns used of Him (John 14:26; 16:13-14). Also, the HS does things that prove He is a person (Jn. 16:13; 1 Tim. 4:1; Acts 2:4; Mt. 10:20; 2 Cor. 13:3; Acts 4:25; 28:25). The Holy Spirit is deity (Luke 1:67-70; cf. 2 Pet. 1:21).

Jesus says that only God is worthy of worship (Mt. 10:4 cf. Rev. 19:10; Acts 14:11-15).

When I worship God the Father and when I worship Jesus Christ, I make it a point to also worship the Holy Spirit. In fact, one of my favorite songs says:

Father We love you we worship and adore you, glorify Your name in all the earth. Glorify Your name! Glorify Your name! Glorify Your name in all the earth!
Jesus We love you we worship and adore you, glorify Your name in all the earth. Glorify Your name! Glorify Your name! Glorify Your name in all the earth!
Spirit We love you we worship and adore you, glorify Your name in all the earth. Glorify Your name! Glorify Your name! Glorify Your name in all the earth!

To deny God the Holy Spirit of worship would be the same as denying Christ worship or refusing to worship the Father.

Some get confused...how could there be 1 yet 3? Read John 17. Look at the unity that the Godhead truly has. That is a large part of it. Yes, it is difficult to comprehend the nature of God. We are finite beings. Will we ever understand it all? No. But, those who are faithful to Him will truly get to experience His full nature in Heaven! Consider however, a parallel: There is only one thing that is water. H2O. There is nothing else that is H2O. ONLY H2O is H2O. But, H2O can be liquid water, solid ice, or gas steam. Each has its purposes (water for drinking, ice for cooling, and steam for ironing clothes for example) but each is still that one and only H2O. Some other illustrations help: Believers (Jn. 17:21-22; Acts 4:32; 1 Cor. 12:20); Husband and wife (Gen. 2:24; Mt. 19:5; Eph. 5:31); Paul and Apollos (1 Cor. 3:6, 8); God is not 1 + 1 + 1 = 3 but God is 1 X 1 X 1 = 1. Although these illustrations are inadequate at explaining everything, it helps us to grasp somewhat of God's amazing nature!

I will continue to worship the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, because all 3 are Deity and all 3 are worthy of worship!

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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

November 1st, 2012, 9:22 pm #16

Thanks for the response: I will respond when my old body moves me.

Ken
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

November 2nd, 2012, 12:06 am #17

Wayne Jackson Jesus in the form of God.

http://www.piney.com/Wayne.Jackson.Jesu ... f.God.html

The Spirit OF Christ defined the meaning of GOD: nothing which the New Testament writers in any way disturbs the facts:



Keith D. Stanglin at Harding seems to follow the "navigating the winds of change scheme."

http://www.piney.com/Keith.D.Stanglin.H ... Music.html

He weaves back and forth by defending 'a cappella' and then weaves to the Instrumental Worship groups denying that there is any command against instruments.

This is material supplied with an "exam" and it is pretty certain that no student is going to challenge his wavering views. He endorses the Stone-Campbell Movement which seeks UNITY but fails to mention that this is the old Leroy Garrett folly begun just after the NACC finally got delisted from the Disciples in 1971.

Mark E. Powell at Harding Graduate School will present a Seminar on the TRINITY.

http://www.piney.com/Mark.E.Powell.Semi ... inity.html

My first part of the review will be looking at the PROOF TEXTS from "scholarly" published world and then quote the ACTUAL church father to prove that they did not think of a trinity.

There is GOD and God has a SPIRIT or WISDOM or breath and when He speaks wordS those spoken wordS are always called the preexisting SON of God. He builds on the Foundation of John Mark hicks the major sowing of discord in the community church idea and musical worship teams


He uses his co-conspirator John Mark Hicks and a host of books on the Trinity. I



David was an unwitting prophet in some Messianic Psalms. Psalm 51 contrary to original sin is prophetic of Baptism in the kingdom of the Spiritual kingdom.

http://www.piney.com/Psalm.51.conceived.in.sin.html

Psalm 51 also defines the Spirit as OUR spirit made right, just and holly.


Wayne Jackson is one of many "conservatives" who have accepted the idea that the Spirit OF Christ is another "person" and is therefore to be worshipped.

Of course, there is only one God the Father who is to be worshipped. Unfortunately, those who believe in the Holy Spirit often believe that "he" is speaking to or through them. They love to boast about keeping a set of rules proven to be superior to other people's set of rules. That is because everyone can hear the Spirit making sure that what they think is what God thinks.

This is a quick review:

http://www.piney.com/Wayne.Jackson.Is.H ... rship.html

To be continued.
The Classical Trinity is not God, Jesus and a Spirit person. it is Father, Son and Spirit.
The Word of God was/is the wordS spoken by the One God through His breath (spirit)

The Tritheism taught by H. Leo Boles and defended by John Mark Hicks and LU
.....The Father is a "person" with His own center of consciousness: ranked #1
.....The Son is Jesus an eternal "person" with His own center of consciousness ranked #2
........With His own unique skills
.....The Holy Spirit is a "person" ranked #3.
........The Father had His Dispensation
........The Son had His Dispensation (in the Bible)
........The Spirit now has HIS dispensation and speaks directly to some.

There is no recorded history before the Boles Dispensation who would not accuse this with being blasphemy. Most discord is based on people thinking that their spirit is A HOLY SPIRIT. Here is the John Mark Hicks and LU's Tritheism:


This is the Egyptian Trinity worshipped with musical instrument under the image of Apis, the golden CalveS.


If Jesus had not denied the "triune" nature of the One God he would have agreed with all pagans. This false teaching removes any possibility of appealing to most Jews or Muslims.

Not sure if those on here against the Triune God are Unitarians or bitarians??? In any case, lets let the Bible argue for itself:

Neither one. When God performs any action it always includes His Spirit (breath) and His WordS (the Son). Jesus made it certain that He did not speak on His own; what He heard from the Father He spoke perfectly. The Spirit without measure assured that no human could ever speak FOR God unless He personally "breathed" on that person.

Remember that Thomas wanted to SEE the Father: Jesus said that when He Saw Him He saw the Father. Father, Spirit (Mother) and infant Son is what ALL of the Greek-influenced Jews understood. God presented ONE PERSON as the antithesis of all pagan triads. This was to repudiate the universal pagan triads or families of gods.

There is one God (Deut. 6:4).

Jesus: No Jew ever believed that God was three people. God's Annointed Christ was the Rock, Manna, Pillar, Angel carrying out God's Will. God's Word was the DABAR which is the same as LOGOS.

Jesus called God THE God. If Jesus ever thought of a "trinity" this would have been a good time to DEBUNK the theory of the Jews..

Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
Mark 12:30 And thou shalt love THE Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength:
........this is the first commandment.
Mark 12:31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
........There is none other commandment greater than these.

The Father is God (1 Cor. 1:3).

If you will notice, in the Epistles, the One God the Father and One Lord Jesus Christ omits the Spirit. That is because the Spirit OF God is now the Spirit OF Jesus Christ which is the Mind or Mental disposition of God. That is because as the Epistles were finished the Holy Spirit almost disappears.



Notice that Jesus is made Lord and Christ. God's Ruler on earth is not the same universal Spirit.

1Corinthians 1:1 Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ
........through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,
1Corinthians 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth,
........to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints,
........with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
1Corinthians 1:3 Grace be unto you, and peace,
........from God our Father,
........and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

God made the man Jesus of Nazareth both Lord and Christ. God's annointed or Ruler is not the Personal God. It is pretty easy to REMOVE all of the glory from Jesus of Nazareth Who UNIQUELY speaks for God. That is a clue to those who have to be skilled speakers, singers or musicians to ATTRACT people.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

November 2nd, 2012, 5:20 pm #18

A Preacher: feel free to respond.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

November 3rd, 2012, 2:03 am #19

Wayne Jackson Jesus in the form of God.

http://www.piney.com/Wayne.Jackson.Jesu ... f.God.html

The Spirit OF Christ defined the meaning of GOD: nothing which the New Testament writers in any way disturbs the facts:



Keith D. Stanglin at Harding seems to follow the "navigating the winds of change scheme."

http://www.piney.com/Keith.D.Stanglin.H ... Music.html

He weaves back and forth by defending 'a cappella' and then weaves to the Instrumental Worship groups denying that there is any command against instruments.

This is material supplied with an "exam" and it is pretty certain that no student is going to challenge his wavering views. He endorses the Stone-Campbell Movement which seeks UNITY but fails to mention that this is the old Leroy Garrett folly begun just after the NACC finally got delisted from the Disciples in 1971.

Mark E. Powell at Harding Graduate School will present a Seminar on the TRINITY.

http://www.piney.com/Mark.E.Powell.Semi ... inity.html

My first part of the review will be looking at the PROOF TEXTS from "scholarly" published world and then quote the ACTUAL church father to prove that they did not think of a trinity.

There is GOD and God has a SPIRIT or WISDOM or breath and when He speaks wordS those spoken wordS are always called the preexisting SON of God. He builds on the Foundation of John Mark hicks the major sowing of discord in the community church idea and musical worship teams


He uses his co-conspirator John Mark Hicks and a host of books on the Trinity. I



David was an unwitting prophet in some Messianic Psalms. Psalm 51 contrary to original sin is prophetic of Baptism in the kingdom of the Spiritual kingdom.

http://www.piney.com/Psalm.51.conceived.in.sin.html

Psalm 51 also defines the Spirit as OUR spirit made right, just and holly.


Wayne Jackson is one of many "conservatives" who have accepted the idea that the Spirit OF Christ is another "person" and is therefore to be worshipped.

Of course, there is only one God the Father who is to be worshipped. Unfortunately, those who believe in the Holy Spirit often believe that "he" is speaking to or through them. They love to boast about keeping a set of rules proven to be superior to other people's set of rules. That is because everyone can hear the Spirit making sure that what they think is what God thinks.

This is a quick review:

http://www.piney.com/Wayne.Jackson.Is.H ... rship.html

To be continued.
I know that the Catholics have told the preacherlings that they are ANATHEMA if they reject. Perhaps modern Priests in our know-nothing world and most "protestant priests" or fathers think that this means Three separated persons (people) a bit smarter than someone with a new Ph.d.

However, it is probably rare than any of the clergy ever goes beyond lectureships and reading the writings of the Doctor they want to give them a doctorate: so they to can TAKE AWAY THE KEY TO KNOWLEDGE.

ANTICHRISTS are those who deny that Christ (Messiah) came in "a body prepared for me" REQUIRED to fulfill prophecy. God MADE Jesus of Nazareth TO BE both Lord and Christ. When Jesus returned in spirit to the God Who gave it, he received the PROMISE of the Holy Spirit. That means that Jesus was given the evangelistic role as The Holy Spirit. 1 John 2.

The SON of God is the WORD of God in all of the real trinitarian documents. When God SPEAKS His Word is His Son. Jesus was made to be the Visible, Audible "congealed" Breath of God. Remember Jesus said, "Parables to fool the fools."

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Scripture
Scripture

November 3rd, 2012, 3:18 am #20

The Greek word "pneuma" is neuter, neither masculine nor feminine.

French word for book (livre) is masculine, but we would never refer to a book as "he."

Spanish word for table is the feminine "mesa" but we would never refer to a table as "she."

By the time the King James was translated in 1611 there was a 1000 year tradition that the Spirit was a "he."

Most times KJV translates it "he", but sometimes "it" as "the Spirit itself".

Modern translations, unfortunately, are WORSE in this regard compared to KJV.

This is just another example why critics have no "justice" in bad-mouthing the Churches of Christ.

Go on, people, continue to criticize the Churches of Christ and risk "sinnning against the Holy Spirit."

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