John Mark Hicks and the Stone-Campbell Sectarians

John Mark Hicks and the Stone-Campbell Sectarians

Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

October 6th, 2012, 6:02 pm #1

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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

October 7th, 2012, 10:35 pm #2

Asked about "conservative preachers." I don't defend preachers but the Biblical Text which no one can keep their hands off.

I got up early enough this morning to listen to S.Es so-called conservatives. I am always so ashamed that people just lift sermon outlines and have no interest in doing further research. Here is what Scripture says about the MERCHANDISERS of the Free Water of the Word. I would say that a preacher would have to tread a very narrow line not to get caught up in selling his body and talent for toeing the line. If there could be no "trader" in the OUTER COURT were the "people" assembled what shall we say of those Donnie is discussing who are wholly consumed with merchandising to the widest possible group.

What's the difference between a Liberal preacher and a Conservative preacher? Oh, about $50,000 a year.



Heredotus1

http://www.piney.com/Heredotus1.html

Grant, then, forgiveness to the Lydians, and to make sure of their never rebelling against thee, or alarming thee more,

send and forbid them to keep any weapons of war, command them to wear tunics under their cloaks, and to put buskins upon their legs,
....and make them bring up their sons to cithern-playing (Kitharizein), singing (psallein),
....and shop-keeping (Hucksterism).
....So wilt thou soon see them become women instead of men
....and there will be no more fear of their revolting from thee."

-[4] Ludoisi de sungnômên echôn tade autoisi epitaxon, hôs mête aposteôsi mête deinoi toi eôsi: apeipe men sphi pempsas hopla arêia mê ektêsthai, keleue de spheas kithônas -[khiton David's garment] te hupodunein toisi heimasi kai kothornous hupodeesthai, proeipe d' autoisi -kitharizein te kai psallein kai kapêleuein [prostitutes, petty trade, playing tricks, corrupting] paideuein tous paidas. kai tacheôs spheas ô basileu gunaikas ant' andrôn opseai gegonotas, hôste ouden deinoi toi esontai mê aposteôsi."

The word kitharizo means to PLAY THE CITHARA and does not include singing.

-Kitharizô 1 [kitharis] to play the cithara, phormingi [Apollo] kitharize Il., Hes.; lurêi eraton kitharizôn Hhymn. (so that there can have been no great difference between the kithara, lura, and phorminx ); kitharizein ouk epistatai, of an uneducated person,
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

October 8th, 2012, 1:14 am #3

Christian baptism is the immersion of a believer in water in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. It is an act of obedience symbolizing the believer's faith in a crucified, buried, and risen Saviour, the believer's death to sin, the burial of the old life, and the resurrection to walk in newness of life in Christ Jesus.

Baptism does NOT symbolize faith: Baptism is obeying a FORM or ANTI-tupos of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ.

The TUPOS is the death, burial, enspiriting and resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth.
Baptism is obeying the ANTI of that tupos.
ANTI means "instead of." We are baptized INSTEAD of dying on the cross. Denying baptism denies the INSTRUMENTAL MEANS by which we REQUEST A holy spirit or A good conscience."

Know ye not, that so many of us
<font color="#FFFFFF">.....
as were baptized into Jesus Christ
.....were baptized into his death? Rom 6:3


Jesus was dead when he went into the tomb.
He came OUT of the tomb alive.
Therefore in this type or "pattern meant to be imitated" Jesus was not alive before he was buried.

Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death:
that LIKE AS Christ was RAISED up from the dead by the glory of the Father,
even so we also should walk in newness of LIFE. Rom 6:4
This "baptism" is a LIKENESS of Jesus being PLANTED into the tomb. We are not baptized INTO the holy spirit.

For if we have been planted together in the likeness (Form) of his death,
we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Rom 6:5


Baptism of the Spirit was a sign of judgment against the Jews whom John identified as a generation of vipers: Jesus transferred His Spirit or Mind in a face-to-face teaching of WORDS to his selected Apostles.

They gave us the Word as Spirit and Life because Paul said that he MINISTERED the Spirit by PREACHING.
Baptism of Spirit and fire was a promise and a threat: it is not something you can obey:

Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey,
.....his servants ye are to whom ye obey;
.....whether of sin unto death,
.....or of obedience unto righteousness? Rom 6:16


They lie by saying that OBEDIENCE of a direct command is a WORK of self righteousness. Baptists CANNOT give accept even the Bible when it threatens THEIR believe that THEY have been predestined to go to heaven and THEY are frightened of upsetting their PREDESTINATION.

But God be thanked,
.....that ye were the servants of sin,
.....but ye have obeyed from the heart
.....that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Ro.6:17

Being THEN made free from sin,
.....ye became the servants of righteousness. Rom 6:18


No one is said to have sins remitted other than when they OBEY that form or pattern which can be IMITATED. What IS IT about "being then free from sin" isit so impossible to grasp?

Baptists and the "progressives" lie: they claim that those who obey FOR the remission of sins believe that they and add WORKS to grace or faith.




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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

October 9th, 2012, 11:14 pm #4

The progressives make an ungodly living off making fun that God has a plan for we humans to follow. After all, humans had their own plan and it didn't work out too well. Claiming that obedience to the direct command of Jesus is legalism and patternism proves that people should NOT be teaching or claiming spiritual authority.

We have noted that the Spirit OF Christ defined the future Sacrifice for sins to save us FROM the crooked race.

He defined HOW the vipers would continue to musically mock him up to the cross.

He defined and commanded baptism in great detail in Isaiah 6.

He through Malachi 3 defined the future role of the Forerunner.

Jesus was baptized to FULFILL the law contained in the command to be batized.

He defined baptism as necessary for making disciples.

Mark 1 defines the ARCHE or "most important under girding of the Gospel.

He then defined the Baptism of John and that of Jesus through the hands of his apostles.

In Mark 16 Jesus connected believeth AND baptism and repeated the prophetic type of Isaiah and said that he that believeth not or "does not comply" as proof of people preferring to be damned.

Therefore:

1. The Prophets through the Spirit OF CHRIST made baptism required.
2. Jesus of Nazareth made that prophecy more certain by being baptized
3. ONLY after He came UP OUT OF the Water did God the Father promounce Jesus as the Son of God.
4. The Church of Christ is built upon the foundation of the Prophets and Apostles.
5. Christ is the Chief Cornerstone in both.

The Baptism of Spirit and Fire is the sign of WIND to winnow to blow away the chaff. The baptism of FIRE is to burn up the CHAFF which would not come to the baptism of Jesus.

The Spirit OF Christ also defined the WIND and FIRE to judge the RACE OF VIPERS including the Jews who tagged along at the Cornelius event.

Is. 4:3 And it shall come to pass, that he that is left in Zion,
.....and he that remaineth in Jerusalem, shall be called holy,
.....even every one that is written among the living in Jerusalem:
Is. 4:4 When the Lord shall have WASHED AWAY away the filth of the daughters of Zion,
.....and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from the midst thereof
.....by the FIRE of judgment, and by the SPIRIT of burning.

lvo , Gr. lu- in luthron; strengthened in lou, loutron; cf. lowetron; Lat. luo (pol-luo, etc.), diluvium, lutus, to wash, bathe, lave.
II. Trop., to wash away: venias nunc precibus lautum peccatum tuum, Ter. Phorm. 5, 7, 80: dulci Mala vino lavere, Hor. C. 3, 12, 2.Hence, lautus , a, um, P. a.

Loutron , numphika loutra the conveying of water to the bride (cf. loutrophoros), Poll.3.43; in NT, of baptism, Ep.Eph. 5.26; l. paliggenesias Ep.Tit.3.5.


These BRIDES who are not washed to be clothed with the wedding garment will be EXCLUDED.

It may not be the CAUSE of people being lost but the MARK of people who had rather climb up like thieves. And like thieves, they claim that knocking at the DOOR to the sheepfold would be a LEGALISTIC, PATTERNISTIC HERESY. A thief has real trouble accepting the FREE GIFT OF ETERNAL LIFE.

<font face="arial" size="4">The promise to the Apostles was a baptism of WIND and FIRE: the SIGNS in the upper room was WIND and FIRE. After that, the Apostles were filled with the Holy Spirit or BREATH: when God breaths on people it is not to SAVE them but to prove that THEIR words are GOD'S Words. The Testament of Levi who prophesied of the JUBILEE HERESY. This teaching of one of the 12 is identical to the Words of Christ:

The Testament of Levi shows what the common Jewish understanding whether right or wrong. Never miss a chance to honor a preposition.

http://www.piney.com/DocTstLevi.html

Then shall the Lord raise up a new priest. And to him
all the words of the Lord shall be revealed; (Isa 1:1f).
and he shall execute a righteous judgment upon the earth for a multitude of days.
And his star shall arise in heaven as of a king. Testament of Levi 5:13-15

And the knowledge of the Lord shall be POURED forth upon the earth,
.....AS the water of the seas.
.....The heavens shall be opened, and
.....from the temple of glory shall come upon him sanctification,
.....with the Father's voice as from Abraham to Isaac.
.....And the glory of the Most High shall be uttered over him and
.....the spirit OF understanding and sanctification
.....ahall rest upon him in the water. Testament of Levi 5:19,-22

And he shall open the gates of paradise, and shall remove the threatening sword against Adam,
and he shall give to the saints to eat from the tree of life,and the spirit OF holiness shall be on them.
And Beliar shall be bound by him, and he shall give power
to his children to tread upon the evil spirits. Testament of Levi 5:26-27

This is what the Spirit of Christ said in Isaiah 11 and in Proverbs.

And the spirit (7307) of the Lord shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord; Isaiah 11:

And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the Lord: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: Isa 11:3

That is what we want when the Candlestick is still in our church. I believe the following is a parallelism

Prov. 1:22 How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity?
.....and the scorners delight in their scorning,
.....and fools hate knowledge?

Turn you at my reproof: behold,
.....I will pour out my spirit unto you,
.....I will make known my words unto you. Proverbs 1:23

Paul in 2 Corinthians 3 affirms Moses who said that the Jews were made blind and deaf at Mount Sinai and would not be able to READ or HEAR the Word of God until they turned (converted, were baptized into Christ). Then they would even grasp that the LORD is that Spirit and where His Words (Spirit) are ministered there is liberty from laded burdens and burden laders.

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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

October 9th, 2012, 11:14 pm #5

The progressives make an ungodly living off making fun that God has a plan for we humans to follow. After all, humans had their own plan and it didn't work out too well. Claiming that obedience to the direct command of Jesus is legalism and patternism proves that people should NOT be teaching or claiming spiritual authority.

We have noted that the Spirit OF Christ defined the future Sacrifice for sins to save us FROM the crooked race.

He defined HOW the vipers would continue to musically mock him up to the cross.

He defined and commanded baptism in great detail in Isaiah 6.

He through Malachi 3 defined the future role of the Forerunner.

Jesus was baptized to FULFILL the law contained in the command to be batized.

He defined baptism as necessary for making disciples.

Mark 1 defines the ARCHE or "most important under girding of the Gospel.

He then defined the Baptism of John and that of Jesus through the hands of his apostles.

In Mark 16 Jesus connected believeth AND baptism and repeated the prophetic type of Isaiah and said that he that believeth not or "does not comply" as proof of people preferring to be damned.

Therefore:

1. The Prophets through the Spirit OF CHRIST made baptism required.
2. Jesus of Nazareth made that prophecy more certain by being baptized
3. ONLY after He came UP OUT OF the Water did God the Father promounce Jesus as the Son of God.
4. The Church of Christ is built upon the foundation of the Prophets and Apostles.
5. Christ is the Chief Cornerstone in both.

The Baptism of Spirit and Fire is the sign of WIND to winnow to blow away the chaff. The baptism of FIRE is to burn up the CHAFF which would not come to the baptism of Jesus.

The Spirit OF Christ also defined the WIND and FIRE to judge the RACE OF VIPERS including the Jews who tagged along at the Cornelius event.

Is. 4:3 And it shall come to pass, that he that is left in Zion,
.....and he that remaineth in Jerusalem, shall be called holy,
.....even every one that is written among the living in Jerusalem:
Is. 4:4 When the Lord shall have WASHED AWAY away the filth of the daughters of Zion,
.....and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from the midst thereof
.....by the FIRE of judgment, and by the SPIRIT of burning.

lvo , Gr. lu- in luthron; strengthened in lou, loutron; cf. lowetron; Lat. luo (pol-luo, etc.), diluvium, lutus, to wash, bathe, lave.
II. Trop., to wash away: venias nunc precibus lautum peccatum tuum, Ter. Phorm. 5, 7, 80: dulci Mala vino lavere, Hor. C. 3, 12, 2.Hence, lautus , a, um, P. a.

Loutron , numphika loutra the conveying of water to the bride (cf. loutrophoros), Poll.3.43; in NT, of baptism, Ep.Eph. 5.26; l. paliggenesias Ep.Tit.3.5.


These BRIDES who are not washed to be clothed with the wedding garment will be EXCLUDED.

It may not be the CAUSE of people being lost but the MARK of people who had rather climb up like thieves. And like thieves, they claim that knocking at the DOOR to the sheepfold would be a LEGALISTIC, PATTERNISTIC HERESY. A thief has real trouble accepting the FREE GIFT OF ETERNAL LIFE.

<font face="arial" size="4">The promise to the Apostles was a baptism of WIND and FIRE: the SIGNS in the upper room was WIND and FIRE. After that, the Apostles were filled with the Holy Spirit or BREATH: when God breaths on people it is not to SAVE them but to prove that THEIR words are GOD'S Words. The Testament of Levi who prophesied of the JUBILEE HERESY. This teaching of one of the 12 is identical to the Words of Christ:

The Testament of Levi shows what the common Jewish understanding whether right or wrong. Never miss a chance to honor a preposition.

http://www.piney.com/DocTstLevi.html

Then shall the Lord raise up a new priest. And to him
all the words of the Lord shall be revealed; (Isa 1:1f).
and he shall execute a righteous judgment upon the earth for a multitude of days.
And his star shall arise in heaven as of a king. Testament of Levi 5:13-15

And the knowledge of the Lord shall be POURED forth upon the earth,
.....AS the water of the seas.
.....The heavens shall be opened, and
.....from the temple of glory shall come upon him sanctification,
.....with the Father's voice as from Abraham to Isaac.
.....And the glory of the Most High shall be uttered over him and
.....the spirit OF understanding and sanctification
.....ahall rest upon him in the water. Testament of Levi 5:19,-22

And he shall open the gates of paradise, and shall remove the threatening sword against Adam,
and he shall give to the saints to eat from the tree of life,and the spirit OF holiness shall be on them.
And Beliar shall be bound by him, and he shall give power
to his children to tread upon the evil spirits. Testament of Levi 5:26-27

This is what the Spirit of Christ said in Isaiah 11 and in Proverbs.

And the spirit (7307) of the Lord shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord; Isaiah 11:

And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the Lord: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: Isa 11:3

That is what we want when the Candlestick is still in our church. I believe the following is a parallelism

Prov. 1:22 How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity?
.....and the scorners delight in their scorning,
.....and fools hate knowledge?

Turn you at my reproof: behold,
.....I will pour out my spirit unto you,
.....I will make known my words unto you. Proverbs 1:23

Paul in 2 Corinthians 3 affirms Moses who said that the Jews were made blind and deaf at Mount Sinai and would not be able to READ or HEAR the Word of God until they turned (converted, were baptized into Christ). Then they would even grasp that the LORD is that Spirit and where His Words (Spirit) are ministered there is liberty from laded burdens and burden laders.

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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

October 10th, 2012, 2:05 am #6

Only the apostles were truly immersed IN a holy WIND and forked TONGUES of FIRE. The prophecy was that those who repented and were baptized would be the tiny remnant whem Messiah came. The baptism of FIRE was a promise only to the RACE OF VIPERS whom John refused to baptize.

When the Apostles (only) were FILLED with the Holy Spirit (breath) they SPOKE in the languages they would need to use the WIND to separate the chaff from the grain to be burned up with FIRE.

You can baptize in WIND (breath, spirit) but you cannot immerse a human into a Divine Being.

The POURING has two functions: Messiah would pour out a spirit OF FIRE and a spirit OF judgment.

The WIND (spirit) would not disperse the GOOD GRAIN and it would be put into the Barn of Christ as a Safe House from the CHAFF clearly defined as those who depend on human talent: rhetoric, singing, playing. The Jews with peter were clearly TROUBLE MAKERS and the experience with Cornelius defined them as CHAFF who continued to trouble.



<font face="arial" size="4">Being cast alive into the lake of fire is OFTEN associated with the fate of the Scribes-Pharisees-Hypocrites-Sorcerers: Isaiah 30; Revelation 17f
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