Jay Guin: List of False Teachings at Wineskins

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November 17th, 2010, 10:22 pm #31

"The Spirit of God is the BREATH of God: it is invisible, inaudible and like the wind carries power."

Mr. Sublett,

I like this statement, it rings to level of understanding I have of the Holy Spirit. What is seen in most church-goers is a repetitiveness of an act(going to church) without a knowledge, understanding or desire to know the Holy Spirit. Most Preachers today seem to lack a depth of spiritual knowledge, which is strange because preachers spend their educational years working to get that job, and end up speaking to people about popular issues in the culture. Therefore all that is committed to by the flock and the leaders is powerlessness for God.

It makes one wonder why church groups haven't figured out that they are actually being led by the wordly educated(the MDIV, Degrees in Bible, degrees in youth ministry) and are not being led by the spiritually enlightened. Everyone at that level of "Christian compensated service" follow along so they can keep their job, not following to be faithful to the understanding of Jesus. Edlerships(or better called the church board of directors) will only consider those canidates, for the most lofty positions, which have earned the best credentials from a University. That is most interesting when you consider that Jesus highlighted one of the most faithful as the woman that gave, two mytes(mites), all that see had. One should see that faithfullness and spirit filled is not found in a college degree, master's degree or Ph.D. Not to say that some with those degrees have not found a spiritual understanding.

Realizing that our churches are becoming less and less spirit driven, makes one wonder what is the purpose of church. If churches lost their preacher or staff or building, that church could survive. But if there was a loss of the contribution, the church would go away. This would explain what we are dealing with in the brotherhood today, "A purpose Driven life and a Money driven church". Far from the Spirit directed life that Jesus lived or the church he died to save.

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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

November 17th, 2010, 11:26 pm #32

Everyone at that level of "Christian compensated service" follow along so they can keep their job, not following to be faithful to the understanding of Jesus. Edlerships(or better called the church board of directors) will only consider those canidates, for the most lofty positions, which have earned the best credentials from a University.

That's the way prophecy plays out: sorry about that but it's all laid out. You should not expect any person with the highest level of "scholarship" to have ever spent much time in the Bible.

Luke 18:6 And the Lord said, Hear what the unjust judge saith.
Luke 18:7 And shall not God avenge his own elect,
.....which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?
Luke 18:8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily.
.....Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh,
.....shall he find faith on the earth?

I tend to pull my punches on the theory that there may be some real educated and dedicated preachers out there. However, Scripture makes it perfectly clear that there are no ROLES justifying a DOLE.

Christ in Spirit define the future REST for His children after He had peeled the clergy off our backs.
A laded burden is the kind of gender-revealing praise singing, and a burden lader is someone waged to break our backs. They even sing 'Jesus paid it all.' In Matthew 13 Jesus said that the truth had been hidden from them from the foundation of the world in parables. So, not the best scholarship can read black text on brown paper.

In Isaiah 55 Christ defined the FREE water of the Word and told us not to use our bread money to buy it. That is because God's thoughts are not our thoughts. Honest preachers would "teach that which has been taught" and the way it is taught.

Isaiah 58 commands us not to seek our own pleasure or speak our own words. That's what Paul commanded in Romans 14-15.

The term "private interpretation" means further expounding: that would deny the power of the Word and would not be tolerated in the old synagogue.

The term "corrupt the word" means "selling learning at retail" or "adultery."

Paul knew that evangelists need to be supoorted "as they go." But church history denies that there are ROLES which demand a wage or that there was a "law of giving" which could be used like a weapon by those riding tandem on widows and honest working people.

I would expect to see it get worse and worse so that, like the first advent which had lots of explicit warning and did not understand the Messiah until He had been there and gone, I don't expect any literal trumpets or signs that the average "churcher" or their "pastor person" will have recognized until Jesus returns and is gone.

Like the elders in Israel, Paul warns us that the wolves will be elders who open the gates. Money does corrupt and attract the parasites.

I tend to believe that the sudden, massive, end-time plotting at highest levels in most Bible-based groups, to claim a "spirit" told them to IMPOSE professional singing teams intending to add instrments has promises.

Those who have abandoned the Word and boast about it even at the once-Christian college level, are promised STRONG DELUSIONS so they believe their own lie and are damned. Lying Wonders are specificially dramatic or musical performances which CLAIM that they came from God or intend to worship God.

2012 marks the last major event about 6500 years ago and the last ice age which fits the last crossing of the galactic center. I am keeping my fingers crossed and my head far away from any trumpet quartet.



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November 18th, 2010, 2:14 am #33

You make some interesting points. My family, from Grandparents to the extended family, have vowed to only support what Jesus said to support, which is not churches or a book seller. There are orphans, which the churches select to care for, of course only after the contribution has covered the staff's salary and benefits packages. And then there is the obligatory speech by the minister about "what a giving church you are". Should make us all sick. I am embarrassed to see a high paid staff, live from the collection plate, they have no understanding or shame. Does anyone really want to get paid a salary for teaching Jesus? I think that is a bigger shame and sham than what we see going on as reported in the American news media. The life blood of this beast is money, so we should support the lamb and give directly to the orphans and widows. Cut the life off to this beast.

The church PR people will alter church services anyway they can to keep the "Jesus market" alive. I wonder how many Elder/Board meetings discussed church marketing? The churches added soft music, then louder music, then rock music, then Jesus pop... What do you think will be added next. Maybe a choice of communion drink and bread. Mr. Sublet, how many choices of worship did Jesus offer? And assuming we are a church trying to following Jesus, why do the leaders seem so blind? Or are we a church trying to follow the likes of Rick Atchley and others?

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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

March 23rd, 2011, 3:09 am #34

Jay Guin: List of Reviews

http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Reviews.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.The.Promi ... pirit.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.What.is.A ... skins.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Instrumen ... ament.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.New.Wines ... sions.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Church.of ... .Born.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.1.Corinthians.10.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.The.Fork.in.The.Road.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Dancing.in.Worship.html
http://www.piney.com/New.Wineskins.Inst ... .Guin.html

http://www.piney.com/Danny.Corbitt.Instruments.html
http://www.piney.com/Danny.Corbit.Justi ... Music.html




Jesus Christ the LOGOS is the Regulative Principle. People who are ANTI-Regulative are ANTI-Logos or ANTI-Christ.

http://www.piney.com/Regulative.Princip ... hrist.html

<b>People who debunk the Regulative Principle are attached to a Worship Service and not A School of Christ.

Jay Guin also teaches that the baptism of the holy spirit is still in effect:

Jay Guin The Promise of the Holy Spirit<b>

http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.The.Promi ... pirit.html



http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Reviews.html

I posted that the Synagogue was the pattern for the Church of Christ in the wilderness.
It was INCLUSIVE of rest, reading and Rehearsing.
Jay follows Al Maxey who claims the synagogue was NOT commanded, men added the synagogue, therefore, WE can add instruments and sow discord and grace will cover up what he confesses is NOT commanded.

In fact Jesus added the Lord's Supper to the synagogue which was ONLY for reading and discussing the Word of Christ in the prophets and apostles. The Campbells called that A School of Christ (only)

I posted proof that all scholars including Stephen connected the ekklesia to the qahal or synagogue.
If these musical adders are wrong then they have passed beyond the zone of redemption.



Jay Guin defends K.C.Moser who taught that to OBEY the gospel meant that you BELIEVED the gospel. He says you cannot have faith in commands. I believe that Moser and disciples blaspheme the Spirit of Christ.

http://www.piney.com/K.C.Moser.Gospel.Obeyed.html

John would defined them as Antichrists for defining the Spirit OF Christ as another "people" about their size.

http://www.piney.com/K.C.Moser.Indwelling.Spirit.html




On God's Salvation, Galatians, and the Instrument

New Wineskins
by Jay Guin
September - October, 2010

Accompanied or A Capella?The instrumental debate in the Restoration Movement goes back to Civil War times, meaning that weve had 150 years to refine and sharpen our arguments. Both sides have gotten pretty good at making them and at ignoring what the other side says.

Its often been said, by both sides, that the dispute is ultimately all about hermeneutics, and indeed , it is. But the fork in the road is not where we normally say. Its not really about what the early Christian bishops wrote, nor about the meaning of psall, nor about how to read the silences of the scriptures. Not really. Of course, those arguments matter and need to be addressed, but they arent the core of the disagreement.

Its really about who God is and his eternal plan for his people. Did God send Jesus to save us to worship a cappella? Or did he have entirely different purposes in mind? Thats the question.

And its the most important question in the entire debate. You see, once we decide that God is the sort of God who might damn over a piano, we begin to worry about whether he might also damn over how we use the church treasury, whether women wear hats to church, or whether elders are re-affirmed. Once you envision a God who damns over such things, theres really no end to the rules that your God might damn you over.

For any student of Restoration Movement history, the fruit of our teaching is seen in our countless divisions. Of course, we arent alone. The Baptists and many other denominations are severely divided as well. But that hardly excuses our behavior. Rather, it just tells us that we arent alone in our failure to understand who God really is.

(Imagine that a father tells his son to cut the grass. The son agonizes over whether the instructions should be interpreted to permit him to listen to his iPod while he works or does the fathers silence imply a prohibition? He fights with his sisters over the correct interpretation and even divides the family, because he loves the father too much to tolerate the presence of those who disagree. He soon begins to wonder whether grass includes weeds. He agonizes so much he never cuts the grass but he presents his father with an excellent grammatical analysis of the command.)

(Luke 6:43-44 ESV)

43 "For no good tree bears bad fruit, nor again does a bad tree bear good fruit, 44 for each tree is known by its own fruit. For figs are not gathered from thornbushes, nor are grapes picked from a bramble bush.


.....more to come.......</b></b>
I find it supernatural that people addicted to deliberately sowing discord using the instrument thingy, fit the pattern of the Word of God. When the Israelites rejected the Word of God and demanded a human mediator they fell into musical idolatry: as a result they were blind and could never read BLACK text on BROWN paper until they converted to Christ at baptism. It is part of the pattern, therefore, that they also deny and actively promote the idea that Jesus and all recorded history (before them) were liars.

Paul can be best understood as a commentary on the Old Testament. In Romans 1 he defines the musical fall from grace at Mount Sinai and in ALL of his inclusive and exclusive pattern for the church first gives the leaders the task of silencing all of the hypocritic arts and crafts. Of course, they deny that.

Notice that the galli (dogs) of Cybel or the mother goddess (at a worship service near you) are the patternism for the "a cappella" fellas imported by the Pope. Modern ACappella derive from the Capella or Caper or goat performers offered as a NOT commanded burnt offering in Jay's patternism. The witchcraft (later) are the sorcerers in Revelation 18 as "fruits" is lifted totally by the Musical Worship Teams with or without instruments. Note that a musical instrument is a machine for doing hard work and this is THE meaning of legalism.

Notice that John Chrysostom interpreted this exactly as Paul's WORDS teach but not for the discorders.



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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

August 8th, 2011, 7:00 pm #35

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Dave,

First, do you ever click "Preview" or "Edit" before you click "Respond" to submit your post? As you know, previewing or editing is really helpful as it ensures a more accurate reporting and better readability (such as a blank line between paragraphs). If in previewing, certain punctuation marks "disappear," use Notepad to locate and replace the marks (single quotation mark or apostrophe, double quotation mark, dash, etc.). Many of these marks are missing in the article above.

Based on the title, Jay Guin so far has not dealt with God's salvation and Galatians . Instrumental music must be his specialty: he made that assertion in the first paragraph and it appears to be his main thrust in his article.

We do not prohibit the other side from posting its arguments and opinions, but you said nothing of Jay Guin's background. So, I will do that in order not to misled the reader.

In my response to Sonny's article titled "A Brief Historical Timeline Of The Genesis Of Change Agents In The Church Of Christ" [which is currently in a "locked" status], I listed a few of the "change agents" operating in the brotherhood as follows (and I will highlight Jay Guin's name -- the author of the article you've submitted for discussion):[/color]
-- Rubel Shelly
-- Max Lucado
-- Leroy Garret
-- John Mark Hicks
-- Joe Beam
-- Rick Atchley
-- Al Maxey
-- John York
-- Mike Cope
-- Ronnie Norman
-- Jay Guin -- author of above article
-- et al
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]The list of "change agents" is not complete by all means. The "et al" simply indicates there are more "change agents" not on the list.

Now that we have identified with which side Jay Guin aligns himself, another of Dave's favorite change agents (besides Al Maxey). let the discussion begin as many of Jay's statements are debatable.[/color]
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

December 16th, 2011, 6:55 pm #36

I find it supernatural that people addicted to deliberately sowing discord using the instrument thingy, fit the pattern of the Word of God. When the Israelites rejected the Word of God and demanded a human mediator they fell into musical idolatry: as a result they were blind and could never read BLACK text on BROWN paper until they converted to Christ at baptism. It is part of the pattern, therefore, that they also deny and actively promote the idea that Jesus and all recorded history (before them) were liars.

Paul can be best understood as a commentary on the Old Testament. In Romans 1 he defines the musical fall from grace at Mount Sinai and in ALL of his inclusive and exclusive pattern for the church first gives the leaders the task of silencing all of the hypocritic arts and crafts. Of course, they deny that.

Notice that the galli (dogs) of Cybel or the mother goddess (at a worship service near you) are the patternism for the "a cappella" fellas imported by the Pope. Modern ACappella derive from the Capella or Caper or goat performers offered as a NOT commanded burnt offering in Jay's patternism. The witchcraft (later) are the sorcerers in Revelation 18 as "fruits" is lifted totally by the Musical Worship Teams with or without instruments. Note that a musical instrument is a machine for doing hard work and this is THE meaning of legalism.

Notice that John Chrysostom interpreted this exactly as Paul's WORDS teach but not for the discorders.



http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Reviews.html

I posted that the Synagogue was the pattern for the Church of Christ in the wilderness.
It was INCLUSIVE of rest, reading and Rehearsing.
Jay follows Al Maxey who claims the synagogue was NOT commanded, men added the synagogue, therefore, WE can add instruments and sow discord and grace will cover up what he confesses is NOT commanded.

In fact Jesus added the Lord's Supper to the synagogue which was ONLY for reading and discussing the Word of Christ in the prophets and apostles. The Campbells called that A School of Christ (only)

I posted proof that all scholars including Stephen connected the ekklesia to the qahal or synagogue.
If these musical adders are wrong then they have passed beyond the zone of redemption.


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Dave
Dave

December 20th, 2011, 5:54 pm #37

Jay Guin: List of Reviews

http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Reviews.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.The.Promi ... pirit.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.What.is.A ... skins.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Instrumen ... ament.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.New.Wines ... sions.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Church.of ... .Born.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.1.Corinthians.10.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.The.Fork.in.The.Road.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Dancing.in.Worship.html
http://www.piney.com/New.Wineskins.Inst ... .Guin.html

http://www.piney.com/Danny.Corbitt.Instruments.html
http://www.piney.com/Danny.Corbit.Justi ... Music.html




Jesus Christ the LOGOS is the Regulative Principle. People who are ANTI-Regulative are ANTI-Logos or ANTI-Christ.

http://www.piney.com/Regulative.Princip ... hrist.html

<b>People who debunk the Regulative Principle are attached to a Worship Service and not A School of Christ.

Jay Guin also teaches that the baptism of the holy spirit is still in effect:

Jay Guin The Promise of the Holy Spirit<b>

http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.The.Promi ... pirit.html



http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Reviews.html

I posted that the Synagogue was the pattern for the Church of Christ in the wilderness.
It was INCLUSIVE of rest, reading and Rehearsing.
Jay follows Al Maxey who claims the synagogue was NOT commanded, men added the synagogue, therefore, WE can add instruments and sow discord and grace will cover up what he confesses is NOT commanded.

In fact Jesus added the Lord's Supper to the synagogue which was ONLY for reading and discussing the Word of Christ in the prophets and apostles. The Campbells called that A School of Christ (only)

I posted proof that all scholars including Stephen connected the ekklesia to the qahal or synagogue.
If these musical adders are wrong then they have passed beyond the zone of redemption.



Jay Guin defends K.C.Moser who taught that to OBEY the gospel meant that you BELIEVED the gospel. He says you cannot have faith in commands. I believe that Moser and disciples blaspheme the Spirit of Christ.

http://www.piney.com/K.C.Moser.Gospel.Obeyed.html

John would defined them as Antichrists for defining the Spirit OF Christ as another "people" about their size.

http://www.piney.com/K.C.Moser.Indwelling.Spirit.html




On God's Salvation, Galatians, and the Instrument

New Wineskins
by Jay Guin
September - October, 2010

Accompanied or A Capella?The instrumental debate in the Restoration Movement goes back to Civil War times, meaning that weve had 150 years to refine and sharpen our arguments. Both sides have gotten pretty good at making them and at ignoring what the other side says.

Its often been said, by both sides, that the dispute is ultimately all about hermeneutics, and indeed , it is. But the fork in the road is not where we normally say. Its not really about what the early Christian bishops wrote, nor about the meaning of psall, nor about how to read the silences of the scriptures. Not really. Of course, those arguments matter and need to be addressed, but they arent the core of the disagreement.

Its really about who God is and his eternal plan for his people. Did God send Jesus to save us to worship a cappella? Or did he have entirely different purposes in mind? Thats the question.

And its the most important question in the entire debate. You see, once we decide that God is the sort of God who might damn over a piano, we begin to worry about whether he might also damn over how we use the church treasury, whether women wear hats to church, or whether elders are re-affirmed. Once you envision a God who damns over such things, theres really no end to the rules that your God might damn you over.

For any student of Restoration Movement history, the fruit of our teaching is seen in our countless divisions. Of course, we arent alone. The Baptists and many other denominations are severely divided as well. But that hardly excuses our behavior. Rather, it just tells us that we arent alone in our failure to understand who God really is.

(Imagine that a father tells his son to cut the grass. The son agonizes over whether the instructions should be interpreted to permit him to listen to his iPod while he works or does the fathers silence imply a prohibition? He fights with his sisters over the correct interpretation and even divides the family, because he loves the father too much to tolerate the presence of those who disagree. He soon begins to wonder whether grass includes weeds. He agonizes so much he never cuts the grass but he presents his father with an excellent grammatical analysis of the command.)

(Luke 6:43-44 ESV)

43 "For no good tree bears bad fruit, nor again does a bad tree bear good fruit, 44 for each tree is known by its own fruit. For figs are not gathered from thornbushes, nor are grapes picked from a bramble bush.


.....more to come.......</b></b>
It is really ok Ken....you never have followed the subject nor posting date. You just post.....so keep posting.
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

January 7th, 2012, 8:37 pm #38

Jay Guin: List of Reviews

http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Reviews.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.The.Promi ... pirit.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.What.is.A ... skins.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Instrumen ... ament.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.New.Wines ... sions.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Church.of ... .Born.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.1.Corinthians.10.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.The.Fork.in.The.Road.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Dancing.in.Worship.html
http://www.piney.com/New.Wineskins.Inst ... .Guin.html

http://www.piney.com/Danny.Corbitt.Instruments.html
http://www.piney.com/Danny.Corbit.Justi ... Music.html




Jesus Christ the LOGOS is the Regulative Principle. People who are ANTI-Regulative are ANTI-Logos or ANTI-Christ.

http://www.piney.com/Regulative.Princip ... hrist.html

<b>People who debunk the Regulative Principle are attached to a Worship Service and not A School of Christ.

Jay Guin also teaches that the baptism of the holy spirit is still in effect:

Jay Guin The Promise of the Holy Spirit<b>

http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.The.Promi ... pirit.html



http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Reviews.html

I posted that the Synagogue was the pattern for the Church of Christ in the wilderness.
It was INCLUSIVE of rest, reading and Rehearsing.
Jay follows Al Maxey who claims the synagogue was NOT commanded, men added the synagogue, therefore, WE can add instruments and sow discord and grace will cover up what he confesses is NOT commanded.

In fact Jesus added the Lord's Supper to the synagogue which was ONLY for reading and discussing the Word of Christ in the prophets and apostles. The Campbells called that A School of Christ (only)

I posted proof that all scholars including Stephen connected the ekklesia to the qahal or synagogue.
If these musical adders are wrong then they have passed beyond the zone of redemption.



Jay Guin defends K.C.Moser who taught that to OBEY the gospel meant that you BELIEVED the gospel. He says you cannot have faith in commands. I believe that Moser and disciples blaspheme the Spirit of Christ.

http://www.piney.com/K.C.Moser.Gospel.Obeyed.html

John would defined them as Antichrists for defining the Spirit OF Christ as another "people" about their size.

http://www.piney.com/K.C.Moser.Indwelling.Spirit.html




On God's Salvation, Galatians, and the Instrument

New Wineskins
by Jay Guin
September - October, 2010

Accompanied or A Capella?The instrumental debate in the Restoration Movement goes back to Civil War times, meaning that weve had 150 years to refine and sharpen our arguments. Both sides have gotten pretty good at making them and at ignoring what the other side says.

Its often been said, by both sides, that the dispute is ultimately all about hermeneutics, and indeed , it is. But the fork in the road is not where we normally say. Its not really about what the early Christian bishops wrote, nor about the meaning of psall, nor about how to read the silences of the scriptures. Not really. Of course, those arguments matter and need to be addressed, but they arent the core of the disagreement.

Its really about who God is and his eternal plan for his people. Did God send Jesus to save us to worship a cappella? Or did he have entirely different purposes in mind? Thats the question.

And its the most important question in the entire debate. You see, once we decide that God is the sort of God who might damn over a piano, we begin to worry about whether he might also damn over how we use the church treasury, whether women wear hats to church, or whether elders are re-affirmed. Once you envision a God who damns over such things, theres really no end to the rules that your God might damn you over.

For any student of Restoration Movement history, the fruit of our teaching is seen in our countless divisions. Of course, we arent alone. The Baptists and many other denominations are severely divided as well. But that hardly excuses our behavior. Rather, it just tells us that we arent alone in our failure to understand who God really is.

(Imagine that a father tells his son to cut the grass. The son agonizes over whether the instructions should be interpreted to permit him to listen to his iPod while he works or does the fathers silence imply a prohibition? He fights with his sisters over the correct interpretation and even divides the family, because he loves the father too much to tolerate the presence of those who disagree. He soon begins to wonder whether grass includes weeds. He agonizes so much he never cuts the grass but he presents his father with an excellent grammatical analysis of the command.)

(Luke 6:43-44 ESV)

43 "For no good tree bears bad fruit, nor again does a bad tree bear good fruit, 44 for each tree is known by its own fruit. For figs are not gathered from thornbushes, nor are grapes picked from a bramble bush.


.....more to come.......</b></b>
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]This is public knowledge, so ConcernedMembers did not originate this info. It is not valid to think that change agents are only "other members of the church" or "from denominational groups" that infiltrate congregations of the church of Christ and subvert, intrude upon their affairs, conquer, divide and acquire.

Wait, there are elders and leaders of the church of Christ who are "change agents" among us.

An article titled "Jay Guin, Change Agent" points out the following:[/color]
Jay Guin is an elder at University Church of Christ in Tuscaloosa, Alabama. He serves as an elder and is busy teaching and shepherding the flock. Jay is also an attorney so the bills get paid at home. He has been a speaker at some of the most popular and well-known Church of Christ lectureships and is an author. His book The Holy Spirit and Revolutionary Grace: Gods antidotes for division within the Churches of Christ and at least four others are favorites of many readers.
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Jay Guin has also responded to The Christian Chronicle's article on the directory of churches of Christ, including those "historically a cappella churches with instrumental services." [I'll post this one when time permits ... for your evaluation of the mind of a change agent.[/color]
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

January 9th, 2012, 1:43 am #39

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]HELP Needed:

I have visited Jay's congregation's website. Here are some of my observations:

a) Jay Guin is one of the elders.
b) In "What We Believe," "Salvation" and "Baptism" are separate topics.
c) The congregation has organized Praise Teams--I'm sure they REHEARSE "worship."
d) "Wineskins" is one of "Other Helpful Resources."
e) "Grace Centered Magazine" is one of "Other Helpful Resources."
d) Here's the help I need: Does the church use IM in its assemblies?

http://www.universitycofc.org/index.html

Jay is one elder who responded to the issue of the inclusion of a handful of instrumental music churches of Christ in the directory of a cappella churches of Christ. He made the following comments:[/color]
Why is it the instrumental music is a fellowship issue and, say, steeples on the building are not? Where I grew up, steeples were quite controversial.
. . .
And those who wish to divide over the instrument have never articulated a sensible, Bible-based standard for distinguishing instrumental music from all the other issues over which we dont divide.
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]I would not have Jay as my lawyer as he pays no attention to details concerning MAJOR doctrinal controversies. His argument about "steeples on the building" reminds me so much of Dave Fields' third-grade level argument about equating the PA system with musical devices. Dave is also an elder at another university church (Clemson, SC).

If it is true that UCC (AL) does not indulge in the mechanical operation of musical devices in any of its assemblies, what is Jay Guin, an elder, waiting for? Of course, he knows that instrumental music in the church of Christ is CONTROVERSIAL, UNNECESSARY and DIVISIVE in the church.[/color]
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

January 9th, 2012, 2:41 am #40

I knew Perry Mason. He was a friend of mine. Believe me, Jay Guin is no Perry Mason.

Jesus marks the Sons of the Devil--because they speak on their own. These ANTI Christian troublers in Zion are using their human imagination which God says is "only evil continueally." They take quotes out of context and have not the slightest interesting in understanding the message or story line. They are standing in the bar of justice and being their own lswyer thinking that they can trump God who speaks to the Church of Christ in the Prophets and apostles. They think that they are being acquitted just because they withhold evidence.

Why is it the instrumental music is a fellowship issue and, say, steeples on the building are not? Where I grew up, steeples were quite controversial.
. . .
And those who wish to divide over the instrument have never articulated a sensible, Bible-based standard for distinguishing instrumental music from all the other issues over which we dont divide.


That of course is a lie: He and the small band IMPOSE instruments into YOUR property and claim that YOU are DIVISIVE for being offended and robbed. I don't know of any more Satanic lie used by all of the discorders.

Jay does not know, cannot know that Church is A School of the Word of Christ in the Prophets and Apostles: all of the prophets repudiate musical instruments as the mark of Lucifer the singing and harp playing prostitute. All recorded history understands that religious musical performers WERE defacto effeminate or castrated males (Galatians 5) and the "fruits" who served the Mother Goddesses. People understand the PERSONA of instrumental performers CLAIMING to lead you into the presence of God. As long as they do not know that most edifice complex is a Phallic Symbol that is normally not divisive and does NOT hinder the role of Church as A School (only) of Christ (only). If he cannot grasp the meaning of a Discipl of Christ He cannot be one in any sense.

The other defacto lie in their web page.

Our Biblical Mandate
Ephesians 4:11-13 says, And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ; until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ.

He prefers to IGNORE that Paul says that these elders are given to SIT DOWN AND SILENCE all of the performers whom Jesus called hypocrites: sermonizers, singers and instrument players.'

Eph 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro,
and carried about with every wind of doctrine,
by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness whereby they lie in wait to deceive;


-Panourg-êma A. knavish trick, villainy, S.El.1387 (lyr.), LXX Si.1.6 (v.l.); sophistry, Gal.5.251; cf. panourgeuma.

-Sophia A. cleverness or skill in handicraft and art, as in carpentry, tektonos, hos rha te pass eu eid s. Il.15.412; of the Telchines, Pi.O.7.53; h entekhnos s., of Hephaestus and Athena, Pl.Prt.32 1d; of Daedalus and Palamedes, X.Mem.4.2.33, cf. 1.4.2; in music and singing, tekhn kai s. h.Merc.483, cf. 511; in poetry, Sol.13.52, Pi.O.1.117


Simon the father of Judas was Telchine. The Judas Bag is always attached to a New Wineskin flute case.


NO ONE who can say that God does not utterly condemn any performers in HIS Bible class are wantonly ignorant of the Word of God and are like simple Simons who get a job in brain surgery because they saw a surgery on TV.

I don't believe Jesus will ALLOW them to understand because they have mocked so much that they believe their own strong delusions: the proof is that he supports lying wonders or "religious services using all of the performing arts and crafts."

I would not even suggest repentance for those who have sought fame and fortune blaming the offended for being forced out of their own property. It IS possible that they believe that the widow who fed their face is divisive for running her face into his fist.



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