It's a Very Merry Change Movement Christmas

Dr. Bill Crump
Dr. Bill Crump

December 21st, 2005, 3:13 pm #1

Fifteen-year-old Johnny couldn’t wait to see the Christmas drama at the Believe Anything Community Church. Pastor Shaman had extensively publicized it, hailing it as a program that would be most “relevant” for the modern generation. Christmas was just a few days away, and the drama would premiere on that auspicious Sunday, complete with rollicking rock music from a praise band. Presently, Molly, Johnny’s twenty-something mom, found herself conversing with the elderly Mr. Wilson, her friendly next-door-neighbor.

“Happy Holidays, Mr. W.! I would say ‘Merry Christmas,’ but that saying is OUT! Besides, you never know when the KGB, CIA, or the president may be spying on you, and I DO like to keep current with the times! Anyway, I was gonna ask if you wanna come see the drama at my church with me and Johnny on Christmas Sunday.”

“Well, thank you for your invitation, Molly,” replied Wilson affably. “That’s very kind of you for thinking of me. Actually, I had the same idea about you and Johnny. Why not come with me to my church as my guests at Old Paths Church of Christ, just around the corner?”

Molly blinked a few times, then said, “That depends. You got a hot Christmas drama with lots of cool rock music, a praise band, and a motivational speaker like Pastor Shaman?”

“Oh, gracious, no!” replied Wilson, a bit stunned. “The members at Old Paths worship God in spirit and in truth! Rock music, praise bands, and motivational speakers are merely worldly trappings designed to attract people for purposes of entertaining them, not worshiping the Almighty God as He deserves to be. Besides, Christmas plays or any other kinds of drama that replace a worship service--let alone the very observance of Christmas itself--are not authorized in Scripture. There’s just too much of a temptation for people to get so caught up in the performances, actors, theatrics, and emotional hype, that they lose track of what worship is really supposed to be about.”

Molly blinked again. Wilson and his old geezer Bible talk! No Christmas? No hot drama? No praise band screeching out cool rock music? No motivational speaker? How utterly BORING!! What’s the use of going to church if one can’t ENJOY THEMSELVES and have some FUN? Taking note that Wilson displayed not one ounce of Christmas decorations on his property, Molly suppressed an urge to scream, “You dinosaur Scrooges live in tombs!!” Instead, she slowly backed away from Wilson as if he had suddenly developed the plague. “Ah…well…thanks, but me and Johnny’ll stick to OUR church and Christmas. But if you change your mind, you’re still welcome to join us!”

“My invitation stands as well,” said Wilson with a gentle smile.

At last, D-Day (Drama Day, Christmas Day) arrived, and Molly and Johnny squeezed into their seats, along with the throngs of others who had come, not to worship God in spirit and in truth by any means, but to revel in the promised blockbuster performance. Boosting the numbers were those who belonged to the “Christmas and Easter Crowd,” people who darkened church doors only twice a year in search of some special holiday entertainment. As men and women dressed in Santa suits sent the collection plates around to receive what few coins the revelers deigned to surrender into the church coffers, the praise band screeched out a medley of vintage holiday favorites: “Rockin’ around the Christmas Tree,” “Jingle Bell Rock,” and “Santa Baby.” After all, the whole “service” was designed to make the attendees feel comfortable, as if they were anywhere other than at some “churchy” affair.

And it came to pass that the revelers received more that their money’s worth, so to speak, for the performance went far beyond anyone’s expectations. It profoundly affected Johnny, who couldn’t wait to get home and tell his friend all about it.

“Boy, Mr. W., it was just AWESOME!! Them shepherds were all punk rock stars playin’ guitars and drums on stage, jumpin’ around and shakin’ like wild animals! AWESOME!! Mary and Joseph looked like hippies, and them three Wise Men dudes looked like Hells’ Angels and came ridin’ in on three huge motorcycles that spit fire and backfired REAL LOUD! AWESOME!! And the MUSIC was so LOUD and AWESOME!! Red and green fire and smoke shot up from behind the stage. Oh, man, it was just AWESOME!! All the people in the audience was standin’ and shakin’ their hips and bobbin’ their heads, stampin’ their feet, and clappin’ their hands or raisin’ hands into the air. Me and my pal Mike thought it was so COOL and AWESOME!! We all hollered and shouted and clapped and cheered! After it was over, preacher went on and on how ‘rel’vant’ and meaningful the whole show was to all the young people. He had the actors come back again and again for bows and applause and lots and lots of praise, and the lady who directed it all got a lot of roses and a lot of praise, too. Everybody went crazy tellin’ how AWESOME!! it all was! I’ll NEVER forget anything so AWESOME!! like that again!”

Wilson sat mortified with his mouth hanging open as Johnny prattled on about the “awesome” performance. His very prediction about the “side effects” of church drama had just come to pass. When the boy finally quieted down, Wilson said, “Son, did they play any of the old, reverent favorites, like ‘Silent Night’ and ‘Adeste Fideles’?”

“I ain’t heered any of them songs before. Man, there was nothin’ ‘silent’ about that show. And that ‘Addesty Fiddles’ whatchamacallit? Naw, nothin’ like that neither!”

Wilson just sighed and said, “I thought as much! Johnny, do you really believe that what you saw today was what really happened when Jesus was born?”

The boy frowned a bit, then said, “Well, sure, Mr. W., why wouldn’t I believe it? Preacher said it was ‘rel’vant.’ I don’t know ’zactly what that means, but it’s in church, and whatever preacher says, goes.”

“My boy, let me read you another kind of story. It’s time you learned the difference between fact and fiction.” And with that, Wilson took up his King James Bible and read Johnny the accounts of the birth of Christ from Matthew 2 and Luke 2.

“But YOUR story left out the punk rock stars, the cool rock music, and the bikers. YOUR story’s a real drag without them,” said Johnny, when the old man had finished reading.

“Boy, it’s not MY story, it’s what the Bible says. The TRUE story of Jesus’ birth never centered around rock stars and bikers and a bunch of hype.” Wilson then explained the significance and purpose of Jesus coming into the world to save mankind from their sins, something Johnny had never learned at the Community Church Sunday school. Apparently all the fun, entertainment, and head-bobbing to rock music had taken preference over learning anything about obedience to Christ.

After the explanation, Johnny was horrified and defensive. “You tellin’ me that what I saw today was just FAKE? How would you know? You never saw the drama, ’cause you wasn’t there!” In his heart, Johnny knew his old friend wouldn’t lie to him, but that didn’t quell his sudden doubts about his church.

“True, I wasn’t there to see the drama,” the old man soothed. “But look here. We don’t always have to see or experience something first-hand to know whether it’s fit and proper. I don’t have to shoot myself in the head or become addicted to drugs to know first-hand what happens to those who commit suicide with guns or who abuse drugs. There are plenty of accurate accounts that describe those events. Likewise, although I never heard or saw Jesus in person, I still believe on Him, because of what the Bible says about Him. Now then, about your church drama. Are you sure that you told me everything that happened today?” (Johnny nodded his head.) “You didn’t make any of it up? (Johnny shook his head.). “Then I’m sorry, Johnny, but from what you told me, your church just did not present an accurate account of Jesus’ birth. Your church added much that was not in the Bible. That’s the problem with church drama--too much chance for introducing fiction. You see, boy, you can read a Bible story straight with no add-ons and know that it’s the whole TRUTH, as God would have it, or you can engage in a lot of play-acting that centers on hype, emotions, crowd-pleasing fiction, and how ‘awesome’ the performers are to the point that you lose track about really worshiping God and giving Him the praise. All the praise then goes to the actors, not God. You did say that there was a lot of praising going on at the end, but not to God. Do you see what I’m getting at, son?”

Johnny frowned again, then said, “Well I guess that means you can read a Bible story straight and it be a drag, but still be the truth, or you can try and make it ‘better’ with play-acting that adds a lot of junk, which really makes it worse. Right?”

“That’s exactly right,” said the old man. “Now which version presents the true account of Jesus’ birth: your church drama version that contains, as you say, a lot of ‘junk,’ or the Bible’s version?”

Johnny related his answer to that last question to Molly, who immediately ran over to pay Wilson a Christmas visit. Did she bring over a plate of Christmas cookies, a pitcher of eggnog, and “peace on earth”? Ah, no. Wilson had hardly cracked open the door, when Molly charged past, nearly knocking the old man down with no so much as a how-ya-do.

I could give a verbatim account of the “conversation” that transpired (actually it was all one-sided on Molly’s part), but it would spoil the “season of goodwill.” Suffice it to say that Molly was fit to be tied as she screamed curses and insults over Wilson’s “judgmental” speech to her boy. Rather than providing biblical arguments to refute Wilson’s views, her “rebuttal” consisted primarily in likening the elder man to various portions of the alimentary tract and excretions of bovines and jackasses. His “old geezer Bible talk” infuriated her to no end. His kind didn’t know how to “love.” According to Pastor Shaman, Jesus preached only “love” and self-esteem, not strict obedience to stuffy rules and regulations. Thank goodness “legalistic” people like Wilson were “dying off.” How dare Wilson get on his high horse and tell ANYONE “what the Bible says!” Was he some kind of self-appointed Bible policeman? He needed to spend more time “loving” and helping the needy and spend less time reading an outdated, dusty old Bible. Of course, Molly’s accusations were quite presumptuous, for she had not a clue how secretly philanthropic and charitable the elder man had been throughout his life. He had done much for others, yet he had never blown his own horn over it, as Pastor Shaman, who lived for the accolades and praise of men, would have done. After vowing that she would personally see Wilson take a flying leap off a tall building if he EVER spouted his “old geezer Bible talk” to her son again, she spat on his floor in disgust, screaming, “Bleeaahh! That’s what I think of your old geezer Bible talk, you rotting old FOOL!” And with that, she hurled a stack of books onto the floor and stomped back home, cursing and raving all the while.

Wilson retired to his den and sat back, marveling. Such irrational, puerile, hypocritical behavior from his “Christian” neighbor! Yes, Molly belonged to that bunch who subscribed to the emotional, feel-good, believe-anything-you-want philosophies of the so-called Change Movement. She had often talked so freely about “love and tolerance” in times past, but how quickly she had turned face and had bitterly cursed Wilson out because she disagreed with him about strictly following the Bible. Wilson clearly knew that the heretical change agents had no tolerance for the Bible. They had twisted Jesus’ command to “love one another” into a perverted excuse for following only those portions of the New Testament which satisfied the culture and customs of the times; any part of the NT which was more “onerous” or difficult to accept was modified or rejected accordingly. “Christians” were “free” to believe and act as they chose, and anyone who dared to admonish another with “Thus saith the Lord” was a legalist who knew nothing of “love.” According to the Change Movement, “love” and “freedom” outweighed faithful obedience to Christ’s commands. This was man-contrived doctrine at its worst, and Molly had fallen a sucker for it! The church service was merely a time for raucous entertainment that catered to the carnal desires of the world, hardly any different from a secular rock concert, as the Christmas drama had revealed. All that hype to get warm bodies into pews and coins into the church coffers! But based on Johnny’s description of the crowd’s reaction, to whom had the revelers really given praise that Christmas Sunday?

Wilson felt there was little chance of steering Molly back to the “straight and narrow path,” but there might be hope for Johnny, who had a level head on his shoulders. Yes, Wilson realized that eventually he may have just cause for calling Molly’s bluff about that flying leap off a tall building in order to keep a young soul from the clutches of the Change Movement.
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kent the viper
kent the viper

December 22nd, 2005, 10:39 pm #2

<font color=indigo size=3 face=times new roman>I jsyt love....</font>
Last edited by Donnie.Cruz on December 23rd, 2005, 3:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Anonymous
Anonymous

December 23rd, 2005, 1:42 pm #3

Fifteen-year-old Johnny couldn’t wait to see the Christmas drama at the Believe Anything Community Church. Pastor Shaman had extensively publicized it, hailing it as a program that would be most “relevant” for the modern generation. Christmas was just a few days away, and the drama would premiere on that auspicious Sunday, complete with rollicking rock music from a praise band. Presently, Molly, Johnny’s twenty-something mom, found herself conversing with the elderly Mr. Wilson, her friendly next-door-neighbor.

“Happy Holidays, Mr. W.! I would say ‘Merry Christmas,’ but that saying is OUT! Besides, you never know when the KGB, CIA, or the president may be spying on you, and I DO like to keep current with the times! Anyway, I was gonna ask if you wanna come see the drama at my church with me and Johnny on Christmas Sunday.”

“Well, thank you for your invitation, Molly,” replied Wilson affably. “That’s very kind of you for thinking of me. Actually, I had the same idea about you and Johnny. Why not come with me to my church as my guests at Old Paths Church of Christ, just around the corner?”

Molly blinked a few times, then said, “That depends. You got a hot Christmas drama with lots of cool rock music, a praise band, and a motivational speaker like Pastor Shaman?”

“Oh, gracious, no!” replied Wilson, a bit stunned. “The members at Old Paths worship God in spirit and in truth! Rock music, praise bands, and motivational speakers are merely worldly trappings designed to attract people for purposes of entertaining them, not worshiping the Almighty God as He deserves to be. Besides, Christmas plays or any other kinds of drama that replace a worship service--let alone the very observance of Christmas itself--are not authorized in Scripture. There’s just too much of a temptation for people to get so caught up in the performances, actors, theatrics, and emotional hype, that they lose track of what worship is really supposed to be about.”

Molly blinked again. Wilson and his old geezer Bible talk! No Christmas? No hot drama? No praise band screeching out cool rock music? No motivational speaker? How utterly BORING!! What’s the use of going to church if one can’t ENJOY THEMSELVES and have some FUN? Taking note that Wilson displayed not one ounce of Christmas decorations on his property, Molly suppressed an urge to scream, “You dinosaur Scrooges live in tombs!!” Instead, she slowly backed away from Wilson as if he had suddenly developed the plague. “Ah…well…thanks, but me and Johnny’ll stick to OUR church and Christmas. But if you change your mind, you’re still welcome to join us!”

“My invitation stands as well,” said Wilson with a gentle smile.

At last, D-Day (Drama Day, Christmas Day) arrived, and Molly and Johnny squeezed into their seats, along with the throngs of others who had come, not to worship God in spirit and in truth by any means, but to revel in the promised blockbuster performance. Boosting the numbers were those who belonged to the “Christmas and Easter Crowd,” people who darkened church doors only twice a year in search of some special holiday entertainment. As men and women dressed in Santa suits sent the collection plates around to receive what few coins the revelers deigned to surrender into the church coffers, the praise band screeched out a medley of vintage holiday favorites: “Rockin’ around the Christmas Tree,” “Jingle Bell Rock,” and “Santa Baby.” After all, the whole “service” was designed to make the attendees feel comfortable, as if they were anywhere other than at some “churchy” affair.

And it came to pass that the revelers received more that their money’s worth, so to speak, for the performance went far beyond anyone’s expectations. It profoundly affected Johnny, who couldn’t wait to get home and tell his friend all about it.

“Boy, Mr. W., it was just AWESOME!! Them shepherds were all punk rock stars playin’ guitars and drums on stage, jumpin’ around and shakin’ like wild animals! AWESOME!! Mary and Joseph looked like hippies, and them three Wise Men dudes looked like Hells’ Angels and came ridin’ in on three huge motorcycles that spit fire and backfired REAL LOUD! AWESOME!! And the MUSIC was so LOUD and AWESOME!! Red and green fire and smoke shot up from behind the stage. Oh, man, it was just AWESOME!! All the people in the audience was standin’ and shakin’ their hips and bobbin’ their heads, stampin’ their feet, and clappin’ their hands or raisin’ hands into the air. Me and my pal Mike thought it was so COOL and AWESOME!! We all hollered and shouted and clapped and cheered! After it was over, preacher went on and on how ‘rel’vant’ and meaningful the whole show was to all the young people. He had the actors come back again and again for bows and applause and lots and lots of praise, and the lady who directed it all got a lot of roses and a lot of praise, too. Everybody went crazy tellin’ how AWESOME!! it all was! I’ll NEVER forget anything so AWESOME!! like that again!”

Wilson sat mortified with his mouth hanging open as Johnny prattled on about the “awesome” performance. His very prediction about the “side effects” of church drama had just come to pass. When the boy finally quieted down, Wilson said, “Son, did they play any of the old, reverent favorites, like ‘Silent Night’ and ‘Adeste Fideles’?”

“I ain’t heered any of them songs before. Man, there was nothin’ ‘silent’ about that show. And that ‘Addesty Fiddles’ whatchamacallit? Naw, nothin’ like that neither!”

Wilson just sighed and said, “I thought as much! Johnny, do you really believe that what you saw today was what really happened when Jesus was born?”

The boy frowned a bit, then said, “Well, sure, Mr. W., why wouldn’t I believe it? Preacher said it was ‘rel’vant.’ I don’t know ’zactly what that means, but it’s in church, and whatever preacher says, goes.”

“My boy, let me read you another kind of story. It’s time you learned the difference between fact and fiction.” And with that, Wilson took up his King James Bible and read Johnny the accounts of the birth of Christ from Matthew 2 and Luke 2.

“But YOUR story left out the punk rock stars, the cool rock music, and the bikers. YOUR story’s a real drag without them,” said Johnny, when the old man had finished reading.

“Boy, it’s not MY story, it’s what the Bible says. The TRUE story of Jesus’ birth never centered around rock stars and bikers and a bunch of hype.” Wilson then explained the significance and purpose of Jesus coming into the world to save mankind from their sins, something Johnny had never learned at the Community Church Sunday school. Apparently all the fun, entertainment, and head-bobbing to rock music had taken preference over learning anything about obedience to Christ.

After the explanation, Johnny was horrified and defensive. “You tellin’ me that what I saw today was just FAKE? How would you know? You never saw the drama, ’cause you wasn’t there!” In his heart, Johnny knew his old friend wouldn’t lie to him, but that didn’t quell his sudden doubts about his church.

“True, I wasn’t there to see the drama,” the old man soothed. “But look here. We don’t always have to see or experience something first-hand to know whether it’s fit and proper. I don’t have to shoot myself in the head or become addicted to drugs to know first-hand what happens to those who commit suicide with guns or who abuse drugs. There are plenty of accurate accounts that describe those events. Likewise, although I never heard or saw Jesus in person, I still believe on Him, because of what the Bible says about Him. Now then, about your church drama. Are you sure that you told me everything that happened today?” (Johnny nodded his head.) “You didn’t make any of it up? (Johnny shook his head.). “Then I’m sorry, Johnny, but from what you told me, your church just did not present an accurate account of Jesus’ birth. Your church added much that was not in the Bible. That’s the problem with church drama--too much chance for introducing fiction. You see, boy, you can read a Bible story straight with no add-ons and know that it’s the whole TRUTH, as God would have it, or you can engage in a lot of play-acting that centers on hype, emotions, crowd-pleasing fiction, and how ‘awesome’ the performers are to the point that you lose track about really worshiping God and giving Him the praise. All the praise then goes to the actors, not God. You did say that there was a lot of praising going on at the end, but not to God. Do you see what I’m getting at, son?”

Johnny frowned again, then said, “Well I guess that means you can read a Bible story straight and it be a drag, but still be the truth, or you can try and make it ‘better’ with play-acting that adds a lot of junk, which really makes it worse. Right?”

“That’s exactly right,” said the old man. “Now which version presents the true account of Jesus’ birth: your church drama version that contains, as you say, a lot of ‘junk,’ or the Bible’s version?”

Johnny related his answer to that last question to Molly, who immediately ran over to pay Wilson a Christmas visit. Did she bring over a plate of Christmas cookies, a pitcher of eggnog, and “peace on earth”? Ah, no. Wilson had hardly cracked open the door, when Molly charged past, nearly knocking the old man down with no so much as a how-ya-do.

I could give a verbatim account of the “conversation” that transpired (actually it was all one-sided on Molly’s part), but it would spoil the “season of goodwill.” Suffice it to say that Molly was fit to be tied as she screamed curses and insults over Wilson’s “judgmental” speech to her boy. Rather than providing biblical arguments to refute Wilson’s views, her “rebuttal” consisted primarily in likening the elder man to various portions of the alimentary tract and excretions of bovines and jackasses. His “old geezer Bible talk” infuriated her to no end. His kind didn’t know how to “love.” According to Pastor Shaman, Jesus preached only “love” and self-esteem, not strict obedience to stuffy rules and regulations. Thank goodness “legalistic” people like Wilson were “dying off.” How dare Wilson get on his high horse and tell ANYONE “what the Bible says!” Was he some kind of self-appointed Bible policeman? He needed to spend more time “loving” and helping the needy and spend less time reading an outdated, dusty old Bible. Of course, Molly’s accusations were quite presumptuous, for she had not a clue how secretly philanthropic and charitable the elder man had been throughout his life. He had done much for others, yet he had never blown his own horn over it, as Pastor Shaman, who lived for the accolades and praise of men, would have done. After vowing that she would personally see Wilson take a flying leap off a tall building if he EVER spouted his “old geezer Bible talk” to her son again, she spat on his floor in disgust, screaming, “Bleeaahh! That’s what I think of your old geezer Bible talk, you rotting old FOOL!” And with that, she hurled a stack of books onto the floor and stomped back home, cursing and raving all the while.

Wilson retired to his den and sat back, marveling. Such irrational, puerile, hypocritical behavior from his “Christian” neighbor! Yes, Molly belonged to that bunch who subscribed to the emotional, feel-good, believe-anything-you-want philosophies of the so-called Change Movement. She had often talked so freely about “love and tolerance” in times past, but how quickly she had turned face and had bitterly cursed Wilson out because she disagreed with him about strictly following the Bible. Wilson clearly knew that the heretical change agents had no tolerance for the Bible. They had twisted Jesus’ command to “love one another” into a perverted excuse for following only those portions of the New Testament which satisfied the culture and customs of the times; any part of the NT which was more “onerous” or difficult to accept was modified or rejected accordingly. “Christians” were “free” to believe and act as they chose, and anyone who dared to admonish another with “Thus saith the Lord” was a legalist who knew nothing of “love.” According to the Change Movement, “love” and “freedom” outweighed faithful obedience to Christ’s commands. This was man-contrived doctrine at its worst, and Molly had fallen a sucker for it! The church service was merely a time for raucous entertainment that catered to the carnal desires of the world, hardly any different from a secular rock concert, as the Christmas drama had revealed. All that hype to get warm bodies into pews and coins into the church coffers! But based on Johnny’s description of the crowd’s reaction, to whom had the revelers really given praise that Christmas Sunday?

Wilson felt there was little chance of steering Molly back to the “straight and narrow path,” but there might be hope for Johnny, who had a level head on his shoulders. Yes, Wilson realized that eventually he may have just cause for calling Molly’s bluff about that flying leap off a tall building in order to keep a young soul from the clutches of the Change Movement.
The good Dr. has delivered yet another work of fiction for his enjoyment? Yes there may be a lot of things wrong with Christmas but is it wrong to celebrate the birth of our Savior? I think not. Let us celebrate the birth of our Lord and Savior and not split hairs during this joyious season! MERRY CHRISTMAS to all and may GOD heal your souls!!

Dr. Bill, what kind of Doctor are you? In all fairness, if you choose to display the title, be man enough to back it.
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Donnie Cruz
Donnie Cruz

December 23rd, 2005, 3:32 pm #4

<font color=indigo size=3 face=times new roman>I disagree.

Dr. Crump’s excellent article explicitly describes and fully explains the nature of the FICTITIOUS Christmas drama that you are misled to believe. You know … I’m reminded of the Easter drama locally produced that has been performed in the last two years at Madison. What about my impression? The image—the facial and other features—of the same Madison member who portrayed the resurrected Jesus, plus all the fictitious scenes and messages!!! [By the way, I treasure the above article and I have saved it.]

You have a dilemma. In the apostles’ writings past the four gospels that document the birth, the life and death and resurrection of our Savior, the epistles are replete with information about the blood of the Lamb—His death. Admonitions and commands are found in these epistles as well. But not the physical birth of Jesus in itself, especially without any connection to His dying on the cross of Calvary—much less celebrating His birth in HUMAN terms????

Speaking of celebrating someone’s birth in HUMAN terms, the designation of December 25 as Jesus’ “birthday” is of pagan and/or Roman Catholic origin, inherited by many of the Protestant religions [cf. thread “A Pagan Christmas—Christians vs. Pagans”]. So, that is another dilemma in HUMAN terms—there are pagan reasons for choosing December 25; there are also pagan reasons for not choosing a date other than December 25.

A dilemma in HUMAN terms is in the following logical example: Anonymous’ exact date of birth is not known. What is known is that s/he was born in the spring. But relatives and friends have made it official that the birthday falls in the winter, specifically on December 21. Family and friends gather and sing “Happy Birthday to You” on December 21. Therefore, in human terms, do/should we sing, “Happy Birthday, Jesus … Happy Birthday, Jesus” every 25th of December?

Now, Christians are to observe or commemorate the crucifixion and death of Christ—that is scriptural!!!!!!!! Please don’t use the “law of silence” as a “permission granted.” [cf. thread—“Authority: ‘He Didn’t Say Not To.’”]

I have one request in return: “In all fairness,” [your words] we would like for you to be man/woman enough to identify yourself. This will be greatly appreciated.

Donnie</font>
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Ken Sublett
Ken Sublett

December 23rd, 2005, 4:42 pm #5

Fifteen-year-old Johnny couldn’t wait to see the Christmas drama at the Believe Anything Community Church. Pastor Shaman had extensively publicized it, hailing it as a program that would be most “relevant” for the modern generation. Christmas was just a few days away, and the drama would premiere on that auspicious Sunday, complete with rollicking rock music from a praise band. Presently, Molly, Johnny’s twenty-something mom, found herself conversing with the elderly Mr. Wilson, her friendly next-door-neighbor.

“Happy Holidays, Mr. W.! I would say ‘Merry Christmas,’ but that saying is OUT! Besides, you never know when the KGB, CIA, or the president may be spying on you, and I DO like to keep current with the times! Anyway, I was gonna ask if you wanna come see the drama at my church with me and Johnny on Christmas Sunday.”

“Well, thank you for your invitation, Molly,” replied Wilson affably. “That’s very kind of you for thinking of me. Actually, I had the same idea about you and Johnny. Why not come with me to my church as my guests at Old Paths Church of Christ, just around the corner?”

Molly blinked a few times, then said, “That depends. You got a hot Christmas drama with lots of cool rock music, a praise band, and a motivational speaker like Pastor Shaman?”

“Oh, gracious, no!” replied Wilson, a bit stunned. “The members at Old Paths worship God in spirit and in truth! Rock music, praise bands, and motivational speakers are merely worldly trappings designed to attract people for purposes of entertaining them, not worshiping the Almighty God as He deserves to be. Besides, Christmas plays or any other kinds of drama that replace a worship service--let alone the very observance of Christmas itself--are not authorized in Scripture. There’s just too much of a temptation for people to get so caught up in the performances, actors, theatrics, and emotional hype, that they lose track of what worship is really supposed to be about.”

Molly blinked again. Wilson and his old geezer Bible talk! No Christmas? No hot drama? No praise band screeching out cool rock music? No motivational speaker? How utterly BORING!! What’s the use of going to church if one can’t ENJOY THEMSELVES and have some FUN? Taking note that Wilson displayed not one ounce of Christmas decorations on his property, Molly suppressed an urge to scream, “You dinosaur Scrooges live in tombs!!” Instead, she slowly backed away from Wilson as if he had suddenly developed the plague. “Ah…well…thanks, but me and Johnny’ll stick to OUR church and Christmas. But if you change your mind, you’re still welcome to join us!”

“My invitation stands as well,” said Wilson with a gentle smile.

At last, D-Day (Drama Day, Christmas Day) arrived, and Molly and Johnny squeezed into their seats, along with the throngs of others who had come, not to worship God in spirit and in truth by any means, but to revel in the promised blockbuster performance. Boosting the numbers were those who belonged to the “Christmas and Easter Crowd,” people who darkened church doors only twice a year in search of some special holiday entertainment. As men and women dressed in Santa suits sent the collection plates around to receive what few coins the revelers deigned to surrender into the church coffers, the praise band screeched out a medley of vintage holiday favorites: “Rockin’ around the Christmas Tree,” “Jingle Bell Rock,” and “Santa Baby.” After all, the whole “service” was designed to make the attendees feel comfortable, as if they were anywhere other than at some “churchy” affair.

And it came to pass that the revelers received more that their money’s worth, so to speak, for the performance went far beyond anyone’s expectations. It profoundly affected Johnny, who couldn’t wait to get home and tell his friend all about it.

“Boy, Mr. W., it was just AWESOME!! Them shepherds were all punk rock stars playin’ guitars and drums on stage, jumpin’ around and shakin’ like wild animals! AWESOME!! Mary and Joseph looked like hippies, and them three Wise Men dudes looked like Hells’ Angels and came ridin’ in on three huge motorcycles that spit fire and backfired REAL LOUD! AWESOME!! And the MUSIC was so LOUD and AWESOME!! Red and green fire and smoke shot up from behind the stage. Oh, man, it was just AWESOME!! All the people in the audience was standin’ and shakin’ their hips and bobbin’ their heads, stampin’ their feet, and clappin’ their hands or raisin’ hands into the air. Me and my pal Mike thought it was so COOL and AWESOME!! We all hollered and shouted and clapped and cheered! After it was over, preacher went on and on how ‘rel’vant’ and meaningful the whole show was to all the young people. He had the actors come back again and again for bows and applause and lots and lots of praise, and the lady who directed it all got a lot of roses and a lot of praise, too. Everybody went crazy tellin’ how AWESOME!! it all was! I’ll NEVER forget anything so AWESOME!! like that again!”

Wilson sat mortified with his mouth hanging open as Johnny prattled on about the “awesome” performance. His very prediction about the “side effects” of church drama had just come to pass. When the boy finally quieted down, Wilson said, “Son, did they play any of the old, reverent favorites, like ‘Silent Night’ and ‘Adeste Fideles’?”

“I ain’t heered any of them songs before. Man, there was nothin’ ‘silent’ about that show. And that ‘Addesty Fiddles’ whatchamacallit? Naw, nothin’ like that neither!”

Wilson just sighed and said, “I thought as much! Johnny, do you really believe that what you saw today was what really happened when Jesus was born?”

The boy frowned a bit, then said, “Well, sure, Mr. W., why wouldn’t I believe it? Preacher said it was ‘rel’vant.’ I don’t know ’zactly what that means, but it’s in church, and whatever preacher says, goes.”

“My boy, let me read you another kind of story. It’s time you learned the difference between fact and fiction.” And with that, Wilson took up his King James Bible and read Johnny the accounts of the birth of Christ from Matthew 2 and Luke 2.

“But YOUR story left out the punk rock stars, the cool rock music, and the bikers. YOUR story’s a real drag without them,” said Johnny, when the old man had finished reading.

“Boy, it’s not MY story, it’s what the Bible says. The TRUE story of Jesus’ birth never centered around rock stars and bikers and a bunch of hype.” Wilson then explained the significance and purpose of Jesus coming into the world to save mankind from their sins, something Johnny had never learned at the Community Church Sunday school. Apparently all the fun, entertainment, and head-bobbing to rock music had taken preference over learning anything about obedience to Christ.

After the explanation, Johnny was horrified and defensive. “You tellin’ me that what I saw today was just FAKE? How would you know? You never saw the drama, ’cause you wasn’t there!” In his heart, Johnny knew his old friend wouldn’t lie to him, but that didn’t quell his sudden doubts about his church.

“True, I wasn’t there to see the drama,” the old man soothed. “But look here. We don’t always have to see or experience something first-hand to know whether it’s fit and proper. I don’t have to shoot myself in the head or become addicted to drugs to know first-hand what happens to those who commit suicide with guns or who abuse drugs. There are plenty of accurate accounts that describe those events. Likewise, although I never heard or saw Jesus in person, I still believe on Him, because of what the Bible says about Him. Now then, about your church drama. Are you sure that you told me everything that happened today?” (Johnny nodded his head.) “You didn’t make any of it up? (Johnny shook his head.). “Then I’m sorry, Johnny, but from what you told me, your church just did not present an accurate account of Jesus’ birth. Your church added much that was not in the Bible. That’s the problem with church drama--too much chance for introducing fiction. You see, boy, you can read a Bible story straight with no add-ons and know that it’s the whole TRUTH, as God would have it, or you can engage in a lot of play-acting that centers on hype, emotions, crowd-pleasing fiction, and how ‘awesome’ the performers are to the point that you lose track about really worshiping God and giving Him the praise. All the praise then goes to the actors, not God. You did say that there was a lot of praising going on at the end, but not to God. Do you see what I’m getting at, son?”

Johnny frowned again, then said, “Well I guess that means you can read a Bible story straight and it be a drag, but still be the truth, or you can try and make it ‘better’ with play-acting that adds a lot of junk, which really makes it worse. Right?”

“That’s exactly right,” said the old man. “Now which version presents the true account of Jesus’ birth: your church drama version that contains, as you say, a lot of ‘junk,’ or the Bible’s version?”

Johnny related his answer to that last question to Molly, who immediately ran over to pay Wilson a Christmas visit. Did she bring over a plate of Christmas cookies, a pitcher of eggnog, and “peace on earth”? Ah, no. Wilson had hardly cracked open the door, when Molly charged past, nearly knocking the old man down with no so much as a how-ya-do.

I could give a verbatim account of the “conversation” that transpired (actually it was all one-sided on Molly’s part), but it would spoil the “season of goodwill.” Suffice it to say that Molly was fit to be tied as she screamed curses and insults over Wilson’s “judgmental” speech to her boy. Rather than providing biblical arguments to refute Wilson’s views, her “rebuttal” consisted primarily in likening the elder man to various portions of the alimentary tract and excretions of bovines and jackasses. His “old geezer Bible talk” infuriated her to no end. His kind didn’t know how to “love.” According to Pastor Shaman, Jesus preached only “love” and self-esteem, not strict obedience to stuffy rules and regulations. Thank goodness “legalistic” people like Wilson were “dying off.” How dare Wilson get on his high horse and tell ANYONE “what the Bible says!” Was he some kind of self-appointed Bible policeman? He needed to spend more time “loving” and helping the needy and spend less time reading an outdated, dusty old Bible. Of course, Molly’s accusations were quite presumptuous, for she had not a clue how secretly philanthropic and charitable the elder man had been throughout his life. He had done much for others, yet he had never blown his own horn over it, as Pastor Shaman, who lived for the accolades and praise of men, would have done. After vowing that she would personally see Wilson take a flying leap off a tall building if he EVER spouted his “old geezer Bible talk” to her son again, she spat on his floor in disgust, screaming, “Bleeaahh! That’s what I think of your old geezer Bible talk, you rotting old FOOL!” And with that, she hurled a stack of books onto the floor and stomped back home, cursing and raving all the while.

Wilson retired to his den and sat back, marveling. Such irrational, puerile, hypocritical behavior from his “Christian” neighbor! Yes, Molly belonged to that bunch who subscribed to the emotional, feel-good, believe-anything-you-want philosophies of the so-called Change Movement. She had often talked so freely about “love and tolerance” in times past, but how quickly she had turned face and had bitterly cursed Wilson out because she disagreed with him about strictly following the Bible. Wilson clearly knew that the heretical change agents had no tolerance for the Bible. They had twisted Jesus’ command to “love one another” into a perverted excuse for following only those portions of the New Testament which satisfied the culture and customs of the times; any part of the NT which was more “onerous” or difficult to accept was modified or rejected accordingly. “Christians” were “free” to believe and act as they chose, and anyone who dared to admonish another with “Thus saith the Lord” was a legalist who knew nothing of “love.” According to the Change Movement, “love” and “freedom” outweighed faithful obedience to Christ’s commands. This was man-contrived doctrine at its worst, and Molly had fallen a sucker for it! The church service was merely a time for raucous entertainment that catered to the carnal desires of the world, hardly any different from a secular rock concert, as the Christmas drama had revealed. All that hype to get warm bodies into pews and coins into the church coffers! But based on Johnny’s description of the crowd’s reaction, to whom had the revelers really given praise that Christmas Sunday?

Wilson felt there was little chance of steering Molly back to the “straight and narrow path,” but there might be hope for Johnny, who had a level head on his shoulders. Yes, Wilson realized that eventually he may have just cause for calling Molly’s bluff about that flying leap off a tall building in order to keep a young soul from the clutches of the Change Movement.
TRIUMPH OF THE MAGI

Dr Crump has put his finger in a soft place, said "cough" and the ruptured duckys have flunked. When I read his message I am pretty certain that he does not have a PhDuh in "ministry." He is warning you about the RETURN OF THE MAGI where "magica, musicus, cantus, exegetice and hermenuo" are all weapons of the WICKED WITCHES OF THE EAST just PRETENDING to be warlocks.

We have discussed the MAGI elsewhere. If the guys from TheILLogical Cemetery had a Certificate Card Class, fast ones of the slow groups they would, FIRST, understand the meaning of the MAGI. Then, they would understood that the MAGI represent all of the musical-superstitious trappings of Lucifer.

Edward fudge: Zoroaster is the PRECURSOR of Christ
Max Lucado: Cosmic Christmas rehashing the old PRE Gnosticism that God slipped Jesus past Lucifer by stealth: sent him in a VIAL OF LIGHT.
Rubel Shelly: wants to RETHINK the S.O.N. God as the S.U.N. god.
Zoe groupies: (Zoe is Lucifer or the evil but superior sister of the Logos and the MOTHER of Jehovah). They are CALLING DOWN THE FIRES.
  • <font color=blue>Ahriman (Ariman, Ahraman, Dahak, Angro-Mainyus, etc.)- The Persian price of evil, prototype of the Christian Satan. According to Zoroaster, who was tempted by the archfiend but came off triumphant from the encounter, it was Ahriman who brought death to the world by virtue of slaying the prototype of man and beasts. [Rf. Forlong, Encyclopedia of Religions.] Ahriman was not entirely evil until Sassanid times. The Magi once sacrificed to Ahriman. He is coeval with Ahura Mazda and equally supreme in power, but will be overcome in the end by the great Persian "omniscient lord of heaven and earth." Early Zoroastrians believed that Ahriman and Ahura Mazda created the world together. Some believe that the two were twins fathered by Zurvan (Boundless Time)</font>
At the BIRTH of Jesus the MAGI (all religious performers: Scribes, Pharisees, Hypocrites) BOWED to Him and protected Him. The MAGI are defined as:
  • <font color=blue>Magos one of the priests and wise men in Persia who interpreted dreams, 3. enchanter, wizard, esp. in bad sense, impostor, charlatan
    • 1 Cor 1:20 Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?
    II. magos, on, as Adj., magical, magps technêi prattein ti Philostr.VA1.2 ; kestou phôneusa magôtera AP5.120 (Phld.). (Opers. magus( 'Magian'.)
    • technê 1 [tiktô]
      I. art, skill, craft in work, cunning of hand, esp. of metal-working, Od.; of a shipwright, Il.; of a soothsayer
      2. art, craft, cunning, in bad sense, arts, wiles, cunning devices

      The METHOD of the MAGOS or ENCHANTER is:

      Epôidê song sung to or over: hence, enchantment, spell, persons, like a prophet, oracular
    John prophesied of the END TIME CHURCH where the MAGI will try to TRIUMPH OVER Jesus by putting Him back in the manger while they do the MAGIC and GET THE WORSHIP.

    Re 18:22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman [techne], of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee; )</font>
Jesus GREW UP and defeated the Canaanites (traffickers). He EJECTED the musical minstrels LIKE ONE EJECTS DUNG. ALL music and musicians and performance speakers CONFESSED to practicing sorcery and ALL musical terms point directly to SORCERY. Because they are UNPIOUS FRAUDS everyone grasped that they were PARASITES. When a talented musician ABANDONS the role in a church he sets the example.

Zechariah prophesied of MESSIAH in great detail: those who PROPHESIED as the musical STIMULATORS trying to call down God would be KILLED BY THEIR PARENTS. There CAN be no TRAFFICKERS in the house of God: He makes sure because when the musical traffickers COME IN He removes His CANDLESTICK or the seven spirits of God.
  • <font color=blue>Zec.14:21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the Lord of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the Lord of hosts.

    Kenaaniy (h3669) ken-ah-an-ee'; patrial from 3667; a Kenaanite or inhabitant of Kenaan; by impl. a pedlar (the Canaanites standing for their neighbors the Ishmaelites, who conducted mercantile caravans): - Canaanite, merchant, trafficker.

    Kenaan (h3667) ken-ah'-an; from 3665; humiliated; Kenaan, a son of HAM; also the country inhabited by him: - Canaan, merchant, traffick.</font>
John MARKED the return of the BABYLON WHORE and Arnobius warned YOU that while you are MIMICING (effeminate, deceiving) and PRETENDING to "BRING FORTH A DEITY" to perform MAGICA with MUSICA and CANTUS or enchantment, it MAY be the end time LOCUSTS or musical performers SEPARATING the sheep from the goat: Chrysostom writing to Theodore before his fall:
  • <font color=blue>"May it not happen, may it not come to pass, although you craftily conceal it, that the one should take the other's place,
    • deluding, mocking, deceiving, and presenting the appearance of the deity invoked."
      "If the magi, who are so much akin to soothsayers,
      relate, in their incantations, pretended gods steal in frequently instead of those invoked;
      that some of these, moreover, are spirits of grosser substance, who pretend that they are gods,
      and delude the ignorant by their lies and deceit."
      (Arnobius Against the Heathen, Ante-Nicene, VI, p. 479).
    </font>
"Clergy's" Job is to TAKE AWAY THE KEY to knowledge. And "see godliness as a means of financial gain." That parses to HIRELING meaning "one who is hired" and to PROFESSION.
  • <font color=blue>2 Cor 2:17 For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.

    Kapeleuo (g2585) (a huckster); to retail, i.e. (by impl.) to adulterate

    kapêl-euô, A. to be a retail-dealer, drive a petty trade... kapêleu' drive a trade

    sell learning by retail, hawk it about, i. e. fight half-heartedly, A.Th. 545; k. têi Chariti tên amoibên Epicur. traffic in grants of citizenship, of prostitutes, . ton bion playing tricks with life {ZOE} </font>
CHARITIE speaks of the "grace-centered" concept where the GRACE they promote was the "brown eyed Greek prostitute goddess."

Peter OUTLAWED all theatrical performance in the SCHOOL OF THE BIBLE. Those who try to put Jesus BACK below the MAGI and violating many direct commands in order to be a CANAANITE IN THE HOUSE the Canaanites built but claiming to build a HOUSE FOR GOD:
  • <font color=blue>1Pe.4:11 If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. </font>
The CHRIST OF GOD or His Majesty and Glory or "visible mode" came FULLY GROWN into Jesus of Nazareth. When people began to focus on the BODY PREPARED FOR God to indwell, Jesus said:
  • <font color=blue>John 6:62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?

    John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. </font>
Any kind of SPECTACLE OF WORSHIP pretending that GOD was born is THE RETURN OF THE MAGI. Don't ever watch anyone PLAYING GOD or shoving Jesus the SON OF MAN back into a 7 pound bundle OVER WHOM they can perform the TRICKS OF THE MAGI'S TRADE.

To try to DISMISS the good doctor's good parable by WHINING about celebrating the birthday of Jesus probably means that a MAGI with superior chanting and enchanting skills has invaded and pervaded the pulpit with a PhDuh in Phrenology. Minimal honesty by any nay sayer SHOULD confess whether they are ON THE DOLE riding widows like witches or not.
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Dr. Bill Crump
Dr. Bill Crump

December 23rd, 2005, 9:24 pm #6

The good Dr. has delivered yet another work of fiction for his enjoyment? Yes there may be a lot of things wrong with Christmas but is it wrong to celebrate the birth of our Savior? I think not. Let us celebrate the birth of our Lord and Savior and not split hairs during this joyious season! MERRY CHRISTMAS to all and may GOD heal your souls!!

Dr. Bill, what kind of Doctor are you? In all fairness, if you choose to display the title, be man enough to back it.
Well, if that don’t beat all! I tell an elaborate story with lots of biblical Truth, and some nameless detractor can only mock my title of “Dr.” Like Molly in the story, “Anonymous” finds biblical Truth irksome, because that Truth is at odds with human traditions, especially at Christmastime. Thus “Anonymous” becomes upset at being powerless against that Truth and takes his/her frustrations out on me by mocking my title. Not only is it a diversionary tactic commonly used by those subscribing to the Change Movement, it’s also a worthless form of “rebuttal,” just as worthless as hurling profanity, insults, vulgarity, and character assassinations.

I recommend that “Anonymous” expend less energy picking over my title, the specific field of which has no bearing on the issues discussed on this message board, and more energy trying to understand and follow biblical Truth. I also urge “Anonymous” to review manuals of style and learn that anyone holding a doctoral degree is properly addressed as “Dr.”

And as far as being a "man" about anything, let "Anonymous" be a "man" (or woman) and cease this childish hiding in anonymity.
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Joined: June 25th, 2005, 4:53 pm

December 23rd, 2005, 9:38 pm #7

<font color=indigo size=3 face=times new roman>I jsyt love....</font>
Hey Kent

I just don't think Donnie is ever going to allow you to exercise you rights under the 1st amendment. .....Oh....sorry......he doesn't have to, I guess.

Anyway....Crump's story was good for a laugh!

BTW, just as an aside. I had a number of Phd's and D.Eng work for me during my career. Few of them ever felt any need to have their title displayed or stated at any time. My experience has been that those who constantly and publicly display their title are, at heart, very insecure people.

M.D.'s..of course, are a different issue. Our culture has made use of the title appropriate in that case.

What say you?
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Ken Sublett
Ken Sublett

December 23rd, 2005, 10:25 pm #8

<font color=red>BTW, just as an aside. I had a number of Phd's and D.Eng work for me during my career.</font>

I usta boast about the SUPERIOR scientists and engineers I used in my company in Seattle. Then, afterward I realized that I only had a B.S. (no, that's not what you guys matriculated into) and I was just ragingly jealous and was HITCHHIKING on PhDuhs.

So, be sure that you are not trafficking on pride by PUTTING DOWN anyone who knows that the Bible does not begin with: "When I preached in California..." where respect for the Bible ends before the shoreline.

Do you guys have anything to contribute besides mocking? By, the way, I have collected some good stuff which connects mocking to "strange" singy clappys.
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Donnie Cruz
Donnie Cruz

December 23rd, 2005, 11:07 pm #9

Hey Kent

I just don't think Donnie is ever going to allow you to exercise you rights under the 1st amendment. .....Oh....sorry......he doesn't have to, I guess.

Anyway....Crump's story was good for a laugh!

BTW, just as an aside. I had a number of Phd's and D.Eng work for me during my career. Few of them ever felt any need to have their title displayed or stated at any time. My experience has been that those who constantly and publicly display their title are, at heart, very insecure people.

M.D.'s..of course, are a different issue. Our culture has made use of the title appropriate in that case.

What say you?
<font color=indigo size=3 face=times new roman>Doug,

I don’t believe exercising someone’s rights under the 1st amendment is ever an issue with me or with the moderators of ConcernedMembers. CM, however, has the right to judiciously attempt to meet its own standards and uphold its principles—and I’m convinced that most of the readers would concur.

Personally, I believe Kent has been (and is still being) granted ample opportunities to post … OR … his admittedly false identity wouldn’t be appearing anymore unless he decided to take his messages somewhere else. True, his posts have been deleted only occasionally; a few have a portion of the contents edited out or have been moved to “The Viper’s Den” [especially of late].

Bottom line—there’s hope!!! Deal with the issues; present arguments in favor of or against a debatable subject matter; simply express an opinion on the topic at hand; provide evidences, references and resources if possible. In such cases, be assured that the article will be posted. Messages that are vile or with no content and redeeming value or that contain “expletive deleted” expressions may not even make it to “The Viper’s Den.”

Doug, are you a psychiatrist or psychologist? Not that it really matters to me, but your diagnosis of the insecurity of certain degreed people seems to suggest that you may be in that field. No, I’m not one to force you to respond to that—unlike … um …

BTW, Dr. Crump’s article is excellent—and my personal evaluation [giving it 5 *****] still stands. I only wish I could present my points concerning “Change Movement” issues that are upsetting and splitting peaceable churches … that well.

Donnie</font>
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PPB
PPB

December 24th, 2005, 8:29 am #10

TRIUMPH OF THE MAGI

Dr Crump has put his finger in a soft place, said "cough" and the ruptured duckys have flunked. When I read his message I am pretty certain that he does not have a PhDuh in "ministry." He is warning you about the RETURN OF THE MAGI where "magica, musicus, cantus, exegetice and hermenuo" are all weapons of the WICKED WITCHES OF THE EAST just PRETENDING to be warlocks.

We have discussed the MAGI elsewhere. If the guys from TheILLogical Cemetery had a Certificate Card Class, fast ones of the slow groups they would, FIRST, understand the meaning of the MAGI. Then, they would understood that the MAGI represent all of the musical-superstitious trappings of Lucifer.

Edward fudge: Zoroaster is the PRECURSOR of Christ
Max Lucado: Cosmic Christmas rehashing the old PRE Gnosticism that God slipped Jesus past Lucifer by stealth: sent him in a VIAL OF LIGHT.
Rubel Shelly: wants to RETHINK the S.O.N. God as the S.U.N. god.
Zoe groupies: (Zoe is Lucifer or the evil but superior sister of the Logos and the MOTHER of Jehovah). They are CALLING DOWN THE FIRES.
  • <font color=blue>Ahriman (Ariman, Ahraman, Dahak, Angro-Mainyus, etc.)- The Persian price of evil, prototype of the Christian Satan. According to Zoroaster, who was tempted by the archfiend but came off triumphant from the encounter, it was Ahriman who brought death to the world by virtue of slaying the prototype of man and beasts. [Rf. Forlong, Encyclopedia of Religions.] Ahriman was not entirely evil until Sassanid times. The Magi once sacrificed to Ahriman. He is coeval with Ahura Mazda and equally supreme in power, but will be overcome in the end by the great Persian "omniscient lord of heaven and earth." Early Zoroastrians believed that Ahriman and Ahura Mazda created the world together. Some believe that the two were twins fathered by Zurvan (Boundless Time)</font>
At the BIRTH of Jesus the MAGI (all religious performers: Scribes, Pharisees, Hypocrites) BOWED to Him and protected Him. The MAGI are defined as:
  • <font color=blue>Magos one of the priests and wise men in Persia who interpreted dreams, 3. enchanter, wizard, esp. in bad sense, impostor, charlatan
    • 1 Cor 1:20 Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?
    II. magos, on, as Adj., magical, magps technêi prattein ti Philostr.VA1.2 ; kestou phôneusa magôtera AP5.120 (Phld.). (Opers. magus( 'Magian'.)
    • technê 1 [tiktô]
      I. art, skill, craft in work, cunning of hand, esp. of metal-working, Od.; of a shipwright, Il.; of a soothsayer
      2. art, craft, cunning, in bad sense, arts, wiles, cunning devices

      The METHOD of the MAGOS or ENCHANTER is:

      Epôidê song sung to or over: hence, enchantment, spell, persons, like a prophet, oracular
    John prophesied of the END TIME CHURCH where the MAGI will try to TRIUMPH OVER Jesus by putting Him back in the manger while they do the MAGIC and GET THE WORSHIP.

    Re 18:22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman [techne], of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee; )</font>
Jesus GREW UP and defeated the Canaanites (traffickers). He EJECTED the musical minstrels LIKE ONE EJECTS DUNG. ALL music and musicians and performance speakers CONFESSED to practicing sorcery and ALL musical terms point directly to SORCERY. Because they are UNPIOUS FRAUDS everyone grasped that they were PARASITES. When a talented musician ABANDONS the role in a church he sets the example.

Zechariah prophesied of MESSIAH in great detail: those who PROPHESIED as the musical STIMULATORS trying to call down God would be KILLED BY THEIR PARENTS. There CAN be no TRAFFICKERS in the house of God: He makes sure because when the musical traffickers COME IN He removes His CANDLESTICK or the seven spirits of God.
  • <font color=blue>Zec.14:21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the Lord of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the Lord of hosts.

    Kenaaniy (h3669) ken-ah-an-ee'; patrial from 3667; a Kenaanite or inhabitant of Kenaan; by impl. a pedlar (the Canaanites standing for their neighbors the Ishmaelites, who conducted mercantile caravans): - Canaanite, merchant, trafficker.

    Kenaan (h3667) ken-ah'-an; from 3665; humiliated; Kenaan, a son of HAM; also the country inhabited by him: - Canaan, merchant, traffick.</font>
John MARKED the return of the BABYLON WHORE and Arnobius warned YOU that while you are MIMICING (effeminate, deceiving) and PRETENDING to "BRING FORTH A DEITY" to perform MAGICA with MUSICA and CANTUS or enchantment, it MAY be the end time LOCUSTS or musical performers SEPARATING the sheep from the goat: Chrysostom writing to Theodore before his fall:
  • <font color=blue>"May it not happen, may it not come to pass, although you craftily conceal it, that the one should take the other's place,
    • deluding, mocking, deceiving, and presenting the appearance of the deity invoked."
      "If the magi, who are so much akin to soothsayers,
      relate, in their incantations, pretended gods steal in frequently instead of those invoked;
      that some of these, moreover, are spirits of grosser substance, who pretend that they are gods,
      and delude the ignorant by their lies and deceit."
      (Arnobius Against the Heathen, Ante-Nicene, VI, p. 479).
    </font>
"Clergy's" Job is to TAKE AWAY THE KEY to knowledge. And "see godliness as a means of financial gain." That parses to HIRELING meaning "one who is hired" and to PROFESSION.
  • <font color=blue>2 Cor 2:17 For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.

    Kapeleuo (g2585) (a huckster); to retail, i.e. (by impl.) to adulterate

    kapêl-euô, A. to be a retail-dealer, drive a petty trade... kapêleu' drive a trade

    sell learning by retail, hawk it about, i. e. fight half-heartedly, A.Th. 545; k. têi Chariti tên amoibên Epicur. traffic in grants of citizenship, of prostitutes, . ton bion playing tricks with life {ZOE} </font>
CHARITIE speaks of the "grace-centered" concept where the GRACE they promote was the "brown eyed Greek prostitute goddess."

Peter OUTLAWED all theatrical performance in the SCHOOL OF THE BIBLE. Those who try to put Jesus BACK below the MAGI and violating many direct commands in order to be a CANAANITE IN THE HOUSE the Canaanites built but claiming to build a HOUSE FOR GOD:
  • <font color=blue>1Pe.4:11 If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. </font>
The CHRIST OF GOD or His Majesty and Glory or "visible mode" came FULLY GROWN into Jesus of Nazareth. When people began to focus on the BODY PREPARED FOR God to indwell, Jesus said:
  • <font color=blue>John 6:62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?

    John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. </font>
Any kind of SPECTACLE OF WORSHIP pretending that GOD was born is THE RETURN OF THE MAGI. Don't ever watch anyone PLAYING GOD or shoving Jesus the SON OF MAN back into a 7 pound bundle OVER WHOM they can perform the TRICKS OF THE MAGI'S TRADE.

To try to DISMISS the good doctor's good parable by WHINING about celebrating the birthday of Jesus probably means that a MAGI with superior chanting and enchanting skills has invaded and pervaded the pulpit with a PhDuh in Phrenology. Minimal honesty by any nay sayer SHOULD confess whether they are ON THE DOLE riding widows like witches or not.
I see we have know added a kindergarten section to this posting. I find Doug's comment telling. I guess something Bill said hit a nerve!!!!

By the way Doug, I work around/with Ph.D's and the majority of them use Dr. in their business and personal titles. It sounds like you work around engineers (who do not always follow normal protocol on titles) so you may not be aware of how other fields do use their titles. Most other fields do use Dr. as a title: education, psychology, business, music, art, marketing, accounting, etc.

You might want to make sure you aren't stating your "opinion" in place of a fact. Also, you might want to stop getting so personal - it makes you sound a little pouty. Not saying you are, but it does come across that way to the reader.

I'm glad Dr. Crump didn't tell Anonymous his field/title! It's none of our business and doesn't make a difference to God. It also doesn't make a difference in his ability to interpret and teach the Word of God. Just think, most of the Apostles were uneducated fishermen, yet they were able to stand firm in their teaching of Christ's message. I don't see Rubel or Max doing that - they change ever five years or so. Very inconsistent men.
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