Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

November 1st, 2016, 6:25 pm #41

Well, at least Donnie's "god Jesus" is a step closer to "Jesus is God."
The Spirit OF Christ defined Messiah's future Rest in the Assembly of Christ both inclusively and exclusively. Those who mouth Isaiah 9:6 have no interest in the rest of Isaiah which is to despise the Spirit OF Christ.

Jesus said that God spoke to His little flock from the foundation of the World: this was to make those with no love for the truth blind and deaf.

There are several SONS in prophecy but in no case are the SONS the Father who created them.

"The prophet Isaiah's first son Shearjashub is mentioned only once in Isaiah 7:3. Commentators, Jewish and Christian, traditionally note that this first son's name is also prophetic - meaning "the remnant shall return" - but no account of why, when or how this son was named is given in the Book of Isaiah."


The second SON is:

And I went unto the prophetess; and she conceived, and bore a SON. Then said the LORD unto me: 'Call his name Maher-shalal-hashbaz' — Isaiah 8:3

In 7:9 Maher-shalal-hash-baz means a child who 'hurries to the spoils"

"The child Maher-shalal-hash-baz is the second prophetic-name child after the birth of Immanuel - traditionally understood as the son of Abi the bride of king Ahaz, i.e., the future king Hezekiah, by many Jewish commentators, or of another woman. The name Maher-shalal-hash-baz is a reference to the impending plunder of Samaria and Damascus by the king of Assyria, Tiglath-Pileser III (734-732 BCE).

Third: Immanuel (Hebrew: עִמָּנוּאֵל meaning, "God with us";[1] also romanized Emmanuel, Imanu'el) is a Hebrew name which appears in chapters 7 and 8 of the Book of Isaiah as part of a prophecy of God's protection from rival kings during the life of Jeshurun.[2] He is wound into the book, among descriptions of historical events and the future. In Judaism the name עמנואל ("Immanuel") is not applied to the MESSIAH,[1] as is done in Christianity.

This event is not to let people think that Jesus the SON is really Jehovah the FATHER.

Joseph was about to break the engagement, but an angel appeared to him in a dream and told him of the child's divine origin, and Matthew 1:22–23 declares how this was the fulfillment of Scripture:[8]

22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,


All of the prophecies about Messiah (not a Deity) had to be fulfilled before the Jewish Nation ceased to exist. Jesus is not owned as the SON of God in a figurative sense until after His baptism. Paul a scholar understood that:

Rom. 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead


In Isaiah 9:6 the SON has the same meaning as the destructive SONS. God the Father GAVE Jesus the SON any authority which He had.

Better than legalistic dogma, Scripture was given to be READ: If you cannot read the whole text you need to become a disciple OF Chhrist.


Quote
Like
Share

Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

November 1st, 2016, 8:20 pm #42

One of the translators of the KJV, William Tyndale (an Oxford scholar), had this written of him....

"Tyndale began preaching and teaching the gospel message, which made the Roman Catholics angry with him, branding him a heretic. One day, while proving a "learned" Roman Catholic scholar wrong, the papist cried out, "It were better for us to be without God's laws, than without the Pope's!" To which Tyndale prophetically replied,

"I defy the Pope, and all his laws; and if God spare my life, ere many years, I will cause a boy that driveth the plough to know more of the Scripture than you do!""

Also, written of Tyndale...
"Tyndale was well suited to his task. Spalatin, a friend of Martin Luther, wrote this in his diary of what professor Herman Buschius told him about Tyndale and his New Testament:
"The work was translated by an Englishman staying there with two others,--a man so skilled in the seven languages, Hebrew, Greek, Latin, Italian, Spanish, English, and French, that which-ever he spake, you would suppose it his native tongue" (Translators Revived, pp. 27-28)"

...but Ken and Donnie believe they know better
Donnie posted: Truly, Jesus Christ has a God: "That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:" (Eph. 1:17, KJV)

We have noted that Scripture, the Campbells and Walter Scot understood that the gift of THE Holy Spirit is really the gift of "Holy Spirit". That is one's personal spirit which is holy after sins have been washed away. Without that gift one is not a Disciple of christ and cannot read for content without wanting to make dogma out of it.

The grand apostasy was facilitated by Rubel Shelly and the Nashville Jubilee which began--they thought--transistioning all churches of Christ into the instrumental sect. The thesis which spilled over into even the most conservative groups is that THE PURPOSE OF CHURCH IS WORSHIP. And by that they meant performing religious observations believing that if they worked hard enough they could appease God and suck in all of the rich seekers. However, they could not and will never understand that the assembly has a singular purpose and works only for baptized believers who are DISCIPLES or STUDENTS.



Quote
Like
Share

Dave
Dave

November 2nd, 2016, 2:06 am #43

In its primary sense, Isaiah 9:6 speaks of Isaiah's Son. His son will be an elohim.

Is. 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God [Elohim] , The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Jesus would not be JEHOVAH or Lord-God. and in fulfilment:

Matt. 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.


Emmanuel "Immanuel, a type name of Isaiah’s son:—Immanuel." In prophecy and fulfillment Jesus would be an ELOHIM but not Jehovah-Elohim.

Elohim has nothing to with a SPIRITUAL Deity or the Almighty: Jesus would not BE the Almighty but His NAME would be CALLED after His FATHER.

Ex. 18:10 And Jethro said, Blessed be the LORD, who hath delivered you out of the hand of the Egyptians, and out of the hand of Pharaoh, who hath delivered the people from under the hand of the Egyptians.
Ex. 18:11 Now I know that the LORD is greater than all gods<b>: for in the thing wherein they dealt proudly he was above them..</b>


Jesus an elohim said that My FATHER is Greter than I. Any ruler good-bad-ugly is an elohim. It was the ELOHIM who creted, bara or CAST DOWN the heavens and earth speaking of earth domination by the Sumerian clergy.

Ex. 21:6 Then his master shall bring him unto the judges [Elohim] ; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever.

Ex. 22:8 If the thief be not found, then the master of the house shall be brought unto the judges [Elohim], to see whether he have put his hand unto his neighbour’s goods.
Ex. 22:9 For all manner of trespass, whether it be for ox, for ass, for sheep, for raiment, or for any manner of lost thing, which another challengeth to be his, the cause of both parties shall come before the judges; [Elohim] and whom the judges shall condemn, he shall pay double unto his neighbour.

Ex. 22:20 He that sacrificeth unto any god, [Elohim] save unto the LORD [Jehovah] only, he shall be utterly destroyed.

Judg. 6:31 And Joash said unto all that stood against him, Will ye plead for Baal? will ye save him? he that will plead for him, let him be put to death whilst it is yet morning: if he be a god [Elohim], let him plead for himself, because one hath cast down his altar.

Judg. 11:24 Wilt not thou possess that which Chemosh THY god [Elohim]
giveth thee to possess? So whomsoever the LORD OUR God shall drive out from before us, them will we possess.

Get my name off of your post. Can you do that???
Quote
Share

Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

November 2nd, 2016, 2:37 am #44

must be witchcraft!
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

November 4th, 2016, 2:47 am #45

Donnie posted: Truly, Jesus Christ has a God: "That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:" (Eph. 1:17, KJV)

We have noted that Scripture, the Campbells and Walter Scot understood that the gift of THE Holy Spirit is really the gift of "Holy Spirit". That is one's personal spirit which is holy after sins have been washed away. Without that gift one is not a Disciple of christ and cannot read for content without wanting to make dogma out of it.

The grand apostasy was facilitated by Rubel Shelly and the Nashville Jubilee which began--they thought--transistioning all churches of Christ into the instrumental sect. The thesis which spilled over into even the most conservative groups is that THE PURPOSE OF CHURCH IS WORSHIP. And by that they meant performing religious observations believing that if they worked hard enough they could appease God and suck in all of the rich seekers. However, they could not and will never understand that the assembly has a singular purpose and works only for baptized believers who are DISCIPLES or STUDENTS.



[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]
Truly, Jesus Christ has a God: "That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:"<i> (Eph. 1:17, KJV)</i>


It may be a great idea to keep track of the number of days or weeks or months or years before pseudo-Catholic Trinitarians will admit to accepting that that passage is from the Scripture?

God is also the head of Christ (not vice versa!) [I Corinthians 11:3]

Yes, God the Father, is the God of our Lord Jesus Christ!!! [/color]
Quote
Like
Share

Visitor
Visitor

November 5th, 2016, 10:33 am #46

Quote
Share

Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

November 5th, 2016, 4:12 pm #47

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Rancor,

Thanks for the excellent guide to: "How To Create Your Own Bible Versions" -- the process is well outlined.

By the way, do you have anything to say (for or against) about the passage I quoted (in the post just above yours) from the KJV? That passage from the KJV (my favorite version) is clear about Jesus and the God of Jesus:

Truly, Jesus Christ has a God: "That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:"<i> (Eph. 1:17, KJV)</i>
[/color]
Quote
Like
Share

Bill
Bill

November 5th, 2016, 4:37 pm #48

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]
Truly, Jesus Christ has a God: "That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:"<i> (Eph. 1:17, KJV)</i>


It may be a great idea to keep track of the number of days or weeks or months or years before pseudo-Catholic Trinitarians will admit to accepting that that passage is from the Scripture?

God is also the head of Christ (not vice versa!) [I Corinthians 11:3]

Yes, God the Father, is the God of our Lord Jesus Christ!!! [/color]
Jesus said, "I and my Father are one" (John 10:30).

"Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?" (John 14:9).

"And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God" (John 20:28). Jesus did not rebuke Thomas for declaring Him Lord and God.

It may be a great idea to keep track of the number of days or weeks or months or years before those who place more faith in the works of Eusebius will admit to accepting that the above and similar passages (eg, Isaiah 9:6 and Matt. 1:23) are not only from the Scriptures, but they also indicate that Jesus and God are one and the same.

Quote
Share

Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

November 5th, 2016, 5:15 pm #49

The word "and" means that the two items are not the same item. We have noted that Jesus was affirming that He spoke only what the father spoke and therefor the word is unum or united and not the same person or unus.

It may be to call Jesus foolish for not being able to say that "I AM my Father."

2Cor. 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

2Cor. 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.


The way we see anything is by the light which is REFLECTED off an object.

Messiah's NAME would be called God.
His Name was not God. He was not named God but a hyphenated Jehovah-Saves as the BRANCH
The Son bears the name of His Father:

John wrote what doubting Thomas said and might have beel believed

John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God


However, John was writing much later to correct many misunderstandings:

John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through HIS name.

John says, I am WRITING to let you grasp that Jesus is NOT God. Neither was Jesus just a "spirit" which left no footprints in the sand. If you don't believe that Jesus was IN THE FLESH with blood then John wants you to know that you are ANTICHRIST

Don't worry if you cannot confess that Jesus is the CHRIST the SON of the living God.
Last edited by Ken.Sublett on November 5th, 2016, 5:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

November 5th, 2016, 5:32 pm #50

Jesus said, "I and my Father are one" (John 10:30).

"Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?" (John 14:9).

"And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God" (John 20:28). Jesus did not rebuke Thomas for declaring Him Lord and God.

It may be a great idea to keep track of the number of days or weeks or months or years before those who place more faith in the works of Eusebius will admit to accepting that the above and similar passages (eg, Isaiah 9:6 and Matt. 1:23) are not only from the Scriptures, but they also indicate that Jesus and God are one and the same.
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times](1) (John 14:9) -- God and Jesus are united, not "conjoined twins."

(2) (John 14:9) -- "I am in the Father, and the Father in me" (John 14:11, KJV). It does not say "I am the Father." It does not say that the Father is Christ. Only delusional Trinitarians say that the Father is Christ and that Christ is the Father.

(3) (John 20:28) -- Consider the language of that culture. Thomas did not address Jesus as "1/3 of a triune God."

(4) Eusebius quoted from an earlier manuscript SEVERAL CENTURIES before hundreds[?] of different modern translations or versions of the Bible.

(5) (Isaiah 9:6 and Matt. 1:23) -- prove nothing about the pagan-influenced, Catholic-originated, Protestant-acquired Trinity dogma.
[/color]
Quote
Like
Share