Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

October 31st, 2016, 4:47 pm #31

One author said "Examining the Options of John 1:1
First, the argument strikes me as giving only two choices - either Jesus is the one true God (YHWH) or He is "a god"
.

In prophecy and fulfillment Messiah as a SON is called an EL or Elohim and NEVER Jehovah. There are MANY Elohim but only ONE Lord-God or Jehovah who is the only TRUE God or Deity. Jesus affirms:

John 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
John 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
John 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
John 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, <font size="4">I am the Son of God?


Jesus who bore the sins of the whole world when God named Him SON after His baptism.
g37.hagiazo, hag-ee-ad´-zo; from 40; to make holy, i.e. (ceremonially) purify or consecrate; (mentally) to venerate: — hallow, be holy, sanctify.

A HOLY spirit (ours) only when we obey that FORM which Jesus obeyed. Would God the SANCTIFIER need to be SANCTIFIED?

John 10:37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
John 10:38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.


By definition an Elohim (a generic word for anything or anyone considered a RULER such as Moses.)
The Jews accused Him of calling Himself the GOD of Scripture.
Jesus said I AM THE SON OF" the God you think I blaspheme.

You and the Jews say that Jesus claimed to be THE GOD.
Jesus refuted them by saying that He was-is the SON of the God of their ancestors.

</font>
Last edited by Ken.Sublett on October 31st, 2016, 5:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Dave
Dave

October 31st, 2016, 5:20 pm #32

Hebrews 1
8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Why would God call His very own Son...."O God?"
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

November 1st, 2016, 1:14 am #33

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Look no farther, Dave. Just read the following verse. Well, here are both verses (Hebrews 1):

[8] But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
[9] Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.


In the original manuscript, there was no distinction between "god" and "God" as all the letters were capitalized. What you see is the English grammatical rule of capitalization.

Notice that god Jesus (whom God made both Lord and Christ, Acts 2:36) has the Father as his God, according to verse 9.

Truly, Jesus Christ has a God: "That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:" (Eph. 1:17, KJV)

God is also the head of Christ (I Cor. 11:3, KJV>[/color]
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

November 1st, 2016, 2:31 am #34

Dave: Psalm 90:2 tells us "From everlasting to everlasting, you are God." If Jesus is some other kind of god (or if something else is meant by using the term "god" for Jesus)

Context, Dave, Context: honor the Spirit: IT IS Adonay

Psa. 90:1 Lord [Adonay], thou hast been our dwelling place in all generations.
Psa. 90:2 Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God. [El]


"Adonay Lord - title, spoken in place of Yahweh in Jewish display of reverence"

In the beginning the ELOHIM created or cast down the heavens and earth: In Isaiah 45 Jehovah did not make the mess.

Gen. 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD-God made the earth and the heavens,

Because whatever you pay attention to as having value is your GOD including the worship team with ruling authority is one of the gods or ELOHIM, Scripture always makes certain that the Lord (Jehovah) is the only true Elohim.

Jer. 10:8 But they are altogether brutish and foolish: the stock is a doctrine of vanities.
Jer. 10:9 Silver spread into plates is brought from Tarshish, and gold from Uphaz, the work of the workman, and of the hands of the founder: blue and purple is their clothing: they are all the work of cunning men.

Jer. 10:10 But the LORD is the TRUE God, he is the living God, and an everlasting king: at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation.


Jesus is emmanuel as a form of ELOHIM. Jesus gets the sole attention of a Christian and He is our ONLY RULER. However, Jesus is not not called JEHOVAH. In Zechariah 3 Jesus or Joshua is Jehovah-Saves or Jehovah working through some agent. Joshua as ruler in the wilderness has the same name as Jesus but Joshua was not Lord (Jehovah) God (elohim).



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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

November 1st, 2016, 2:57 am #35

One of the translators of the KJV, William Tyndale (an Oxford scholar), had this written of him....

"Tyndale began preaching and teaching the gospel message, which made the Roman Catholics angry with him, branding him a heretic. One day, while proving a "learned" Roman Catholic scholar wrong, the papist cried out, "It were better for us to be without God's laws, than without the Pope's!" To which Tyndale prophetically replied,

"I defy the Pope, and all his laws; and if God spare my life, ere many years, I will cause a boy that driveth the plough to know more of the Scripture than you do!""

Also, written of Tyndale...
"Tyndale was well suited to his task. Spalatin, a friend of Martin Luther, wrote this in his diary of what professor Herman Buschius told him about Tyndale and his New Testament:
"The work was translated by an Englishman staying there with two others,--a man so skilled in the seven languages, Hebrew, Greek, Latin, Italian, Spanish, English, and French, that which-ever he spake, you would suppose it his native tongue" (Translators Revived, pp. 27-28)"

...but Ken and Donnie believe they know better
Donnie: Truly, Jesus Christ has a God: "That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:" (Eph. 1:17, KJV)

Eph. 1:18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

That has the same meaning that after baptism and the remission of sins, WE have A holy spirit or A good conscience, consciousness meaning a CO-perception of the Word. If you DENY that "Baptism doeth now save you" then you have not been baptized to REQUEST that enlightenment.

Luke points out and agrees that "salvation by grace through faith" begs the question SAVED FROM WHAT?

Luke 1:69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;
Luke 1:70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:
Luke 1:71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;


The enemies are echthros Satan or echidna vipers: The present Jews not Israelites were called a RACE OF VIPERS or a CROOKED RACE.

Luke 1:72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;
Luke 1:73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,
Luke 1:74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,


This is done at baptism according to Romans 6.

Rom. 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Rom. 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin,
but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Rom. 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.


Luke 1:76 And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways;
Luke 1:77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people BY the remission of their sins,
Luke 1:78 Through the tender mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us,


Remission of sins is never by faith only but by obedience in baptism.
Last edited by Ken.Sublett on November 1st, 2016, 3:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Dave
Dave

November 1st, 2016, 3:02 pm #36

Now, Donnie is calling The Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, "god Jesus."

You, Donnie, are an enemy of the cross.

But still, even, thanks for letting me post the PURE KJV. God is using our enemies (you and Ken) to do His bidding. POST ON!!!
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

November 1st, 2016, 3:49 pm #37

In its primary sense, Isaiah 9:6 speaks of Isaiah's Son. His son will be an elohim.

Is. 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God [Elohim] , The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Jesus would not be JEHOVAH or Lord-God. and in fulfilment:

Matt. 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.


Emmanuel "Immanuel, a type name of Isaiah’s son:—Immanuel." In prophecy and fulfillment Jesus would be an ELOHIM but not Jehovah-Elohim.

Elohim has nothing to with a SPIRITUAL Deity or the Almighty: Jesus would not BE the Almighty but His NAME would be CALLED after His FATHER.

Ex. 18:10 And Jethro said, Blessed be the LORD, who hath delivered you out of the hand of the Egyptians, and out of the hand of Pharaoh, who hath delivered the people from under the hand of the Egyptians.
Ex. 18:11 Now I know that the LORD is greater than all gods<b>: for in the thing wherein they dealt proudly he was above them..</b>


Jesus an elohim said that My FATHER is Greter than I. Any ruler good-bad-ugly is an elohim. It was the ELOHIM who creted, bara or CAST DOWN the heavens and earth speaking of earth domination by the Sumerian clergy.

Ex. 21:6 Then his master shall bring him unto the judges [Elohim] ; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever.

Ex. 22:8 If the thief be not found, then the master of the house shall be brought unto the judges [Elohim], to see whether he have put his hand unto his neighbour’s goods.
Ex. 22:9 For all manner of trespass, whether it be for ox, for ass, for sheep, for raiment, or for any manner of lost thing, which another challengeth to be his, the cause of both parties shall come before the judges; [Elohim] and whom the judges shall condemn, he shall pay double unto his neighbour.

Ex. 22:20 He that sacrificeth unto any god, [Elohim] save unto the LORD [Jehovah] only, he shall be utterly destroyed.

Judg. 6:31 And Joash said unto all that stood against him, Will ye plead for Baal? will ye save him? he that will plead for him, let him be put to death whilst it is yet morning: if he be a god [Elohim], let him plead for himself, because one hath cast down his altar.

Judg. 11:24 Wilt not thou possess that which Chemosh THY god [Elohim]
giveth thee to possess? So whomsoever the LORD OUR God shall drive out from before us, them will we possess.

Last edited by Ken.Sublett on November 2nd, 2016, 2:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Bill
Bill

November 1st, 2016, 3:49 pm #38

Now, Donnie is calling The Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, "god Jesus."

You, Donnie, are an enemy of the cross.

But still, even, thanks for letting me post the PURE KJV. God is using our enemies (you and Ken) to do His bidding. POST ON!!!
Well, at least Donnie's "god Jesus" is a step closer to "Jesus is God."
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Dave
Dave

November 1st, 2016, 4:02 pm #39

In its primary sense, Isaiah 9:6 speaks of Isaiah's Son. His son will be an elohim.

Is. 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God [Elohim] , The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Jesus would not be JEHOVAH or Lord-God. and in fulfilment:

Matt. 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.


Emmanuel "Immanuel, a type name of Isaiah’s son:—Immanuel." In prophecy and fulfillment Jesus would be an ELOHIM but not Jehovah-Elohim.

Elohim has nothing to with a SPIRITUAL Deity or the Almighty: Jesus would not BE the Almighty but His NAME would be CALLED after His FATHER.

Ex. 18:10 And Jethro said, Blessed be the LORD, who hath delivered you out of the hand of the Egyptians, and out of the hand of Pharaoh, who hath delivered the people from under the hand of the Egyptians.
Ex. 18:11 Now I know that the LORD is greater than all gods<b>: for in the thing wherein they dealt proudly he was above them..</b>


Jesus an elohim said that My FATHER is Greter than I. Any ruler good-bad-ugly is an elohim. It was the ELOHIM who creted, bara or CAST DOWN the heavens and earth speaking of earth domination by the Sumerian clergy.

Ex. 21:6 Then his master shall bring him unto the judges [Elohim] ; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever.

Ex. 22:8 If the thief be not found, then the master of the house shall be brought unto the judges [Elohim], to see whether he have put his hand unto his neighbour’s goods.
Ex. 22:9 For all manner of trespass, whether it be for ox, for ass, for sheep, for raiment, or for any manner of lost thing, which another challengeth to be his, the cause of both parties shall come before the judges; [Elohim] and whom the judges shall condemn, he shall pay double unto his neighbour.

Ex. 22:20 He that sacrificeth unto any god, [Elohim] save unto the LORD [Jehovah] only, he shall be utterly destroyed.

Judg. 6:31 And Joash said unto all that stood against him, Will ye plead for Baal? will ye save him? he that will plead for him, let him be put to death whilst it is yet morning: if he be a god [Elohim], let him plead for himself, because one hath cast down his altar.

Judg. 11:24 Wilt not thou possess that which Chemosh THY god [Elohim]
giveth thee to possess? So whomsoever the LORD OUR God shall drive out from before us, them will we possess.

Like Hillary, Ken is switching his story from not believeing that Isaiah 9:6 isn't calling Jesus 'Mighty God' or 'Eternal Father' to believing that now the author of Isaiah is talking about his own son.

Kens said "In its primary sense, Isaiah 9:6 speaks of Isaiah's Son. His son will be an elohim. "Primary sense"

Now that is rich Ken.

I realize that you are up in some age Ken, but the Democrats sure could use your help. You would ratchet it up for them to a higher level.

If you don't succeed, don't worry about try try again. Make up some other tall tale.

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Bill
Bill

November 1st, 2016, 5:46 pm #40

So Ken believes that in Isaiah 9:6, the prophet is allegedly speaking about his own son, Isaiah, Jr., huh? Well, we've known for quite some time that we need not take Ken's postings seriously, what with his wild imaginations and fanciful musings on mythology and his damnation of singing and music. Now this Isaiah's son business just drives another nail in the proverbial coffin. This site is really a hoot to read, not for the moderators' "teachings" (they've become abominably heretical lately), but for the moderators' laughable insanity that floods this site. LOL
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