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September 17th, 2012, 2:07 am #21

"A Disciple never speaks of should or shall but WHAT IS WRITTEN."

The person who quoted that also quotes from the book of Enoch. Does he mean that he isn't a disciple? The book of Enoch has never been a part of the OT, even with the KJV translation. If this person says to speak WHAT IS WRITEEN, but does not do so himself, what does that say of him?
Dave has an unusual "Bible." He went to the Bible printers and told them to make him a copy with Jude 1:14-15 deleted, because Jude quotes a prophecy from the Book of Enoch, which is not a part of the current biblical canon. Therefore, Dave figured that since Jude had obviously "erred" in quoting Enoch, Dave wasn't about to have a "spurious" passage in his "Bible."

And that's not all Dave had done to his "Bible." Because Dave was sure that the New Testament "forgot" to include instrumental music when it mentioned singing and making melody in the heart, he had the printers add to Eph. 5:19 and Col. 3:16 the following statement: "But God didn't say not to have instruments to enhance and accompany the singing."

Finally, Dave had the printers remove Deut. 4:2 and Rev. 22:18-19, because those passages cite the neither-add-to-nor-take-from command. Change agents feel more comfortable using use big-time musical entertainment to draw in and keep the crowds if that command doesn't "clutter" their Bibles.
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Racnor
Racnor

September 17th, 2012, 2:34 am #22

Check your pulse: we are not in Sunday School.

Jude thought the book was pretty important and at least 128 other quotes or allusions in the New Testament might make one want to NOT be ignorant of the Book.

http://www.piney.com/ApocEnoch1.html


Ken, I would think staying in the Bible would be important to a Christian.
"Teaching that which is written for our learning"
Any of Enoch's work that is in the Bible is fine. To use any of Enoch's work that is outside the Bible is wrong. Should "B" explain the neither-add-to-nor-take-from command to you?
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

September 17th, 2012, 4:59 am #23

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Racnor,

You are correct -- that the Christian discern God's truth from non-truths.

Ken does that. However, he has an advantage. He uses references (accurate secular history books, non-canonized books, writings by the "church fathers," Restoration Movement writings, Reformation leaders, etc.) that prove and qualify for those of us who are not as informed and as convinced what is already revealed in the Holy Scripture.[/color]
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

September 17th, 2012, 4:22 pm #24

The inspired writers--prophets and apostles guided by the Spirit of Christ--ALWAYS set up the pagan THESIS so that people will be AWARE when they teach the Christian ANTITHESIS. Any one with the ability to read BLACK text on BROWN paper could not MISS that fact.

I have covered ALL of the never-instrumental teachings of Paul and Peter and shown that the SINGING word has the object of TEACHING THAT WHICH IS WRITTEN.

Eph 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro,
and carried about with every wind of doctrine,
by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

Even with a Phduh, these false teachers cannot define words: Li'l David would DEPRIVE us of extra-Biblical literature WITHOUT WHICH NO SCHOLAR COULD READ THE BIBLE.

Panourgia (g3834) pan-oorg-ee'-ah; from 3835; adroitness, i.e. (in a bad sense) trickery or sophistry: - (cunning) craftiness, subtilty.

-Panourg-êma A. knavish trick, villainy, S.El.1387 (lyr.), LXX Si.1.6 (v.l.); sophistry, Gal.5.251; cf. panourgeuma.

The Wise Sophos A. skilled in any handicraft or art, clever, mostly of poets and musicians, Pi.O.1.9, P.1.42, 3.113; en kithara s. E.IT1238 in music and singing,.

SO, you see SINGING is not MUSIC according to all known history. MUSIC demands that you get ALL of your body gyrating including playing and DANCING. Virtual dancing takes place when little limpy singer waves his hand, moves his body and claps his hands KNOWING that he is--according to the Fuller lade--creating a sexual-like climatic experience with the "spirit." Shelly quotes Lucado to say that the "Spirit is the song writer and DANCE master: you cannot really dance until you quit trying to follow the BOOK."

"Worship Teams" make themselves into a VOCAL BAND and the style is ORGANUM or after the pipe organ: not Congregational singing.
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William
William

September 23rd, 2012, 7:35 am #25

Dave has an unusual "Bible." He went to the Bible printers and told them to make him a copy with Jude 1:14-15 deleted, because Jude quotes a prophecy from the Book of Enoch, which is not a part of the current biblical canon. Therefore, Dave figured that since Jude had obviously "erred" in quoting Enoch, Dave wasn't about to have a "spurious" passage in his "Bible."

And that's not all Dave had done to his "Bible." Because Dave was sure that the New Testament "forgot" to include instrumental music when it mentioned singing and making melody in the heart, he had the printers add to Eph. 5:19 and Col. 3:16 the following statement: "But God didn't say not to have instruments to enhance and accompany the singing."

Finally, Dave had the printers remove Deut. 4:2 and Rev. 22:18-19, because those passages cite the neither-add-to-nor-take-from command. Change agents feel more comfortable using use big-time musical entertainment to draw in and keep the crowds if that command doesn't "clutter" their Bibles.
We know very little about what Christians did on the first day of the week other than they met. We have gathered glimpses of singing, preaching, giving, prophesy, eating, speaking in tongues, prayer, reading -- but we have to interpolate from other knowledge, really, to understand their assembly. Others have cited teaching and studying daily. We know that the early congregations had leadership, and we know that we are to "Obey [our] leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account." If our leaders set up a time on the first day of the week for age appropriate study it would seem that we have a responsibility to participate.

I am unconvinced that first century Christians say the assembly in parts like many of us. Sunday school as apart from and before "worship" as apart from after worship when it is o.k. to pot luck. I think that they assembled, and they were assembled doing various things until the assembly was over.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

September 23rd, 2012, 3:36 pm #26

That's true: they didn't hop in their chariot and run down to the local congregation. Like the synagogue many would be a local group in a small village: in larger cities many of the outlying people would have to travel and bring along their food. in later history some held 'festivals' to attract the people who would not otherwise be able to attend weekly.

Most civilized people had societies to out for the poor.

One of the Campbells spoke of "local societies" where everyone could assemble to read and muse the word and probably take care of other local affairs. That's what I remember in my youth.

That sounds like Paul who, in Romans 14, told the people to allow what edified and "doubtful disputations" left out private opinion. In Romans 15 this allowed using one mind and one mouth to speak that which is written for our learning. That can be done in smaller groups but in my latter years does not happen when the resource is replaced with the "private opinions" and doubtful disputations.
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Anonymous
Anonymous

September 24th, 2012, 5:24 pm #27

I apologize in advance if this is not the place to post this question. This post is actually the result of days of searching the internet trying to find the answer. Right now, my family is trying to decide if Sunday School is Biblical and if that is the road we need to take.

I was raised Baptist while my husband was raised Church of Christ. He has always gone to a church that did NOT have Sunday School. Since we have children now, we feel a conviction to teach our children and to become closer to God ourselves. I see that Sunday School is fine but that is based on the way I was raised. I don't have scripture to back me up. He sees that Sunday School is wrong as it is never mentioned in the Bible, is a pretty new thing being less than 200 years old, and seperates the family. He sees that it is a parents job to teach the child, not the church.

He feels that Sunday School would be fine, like a Bible Study, if it were not a part of the worship service. He has agreed to pray on it as have I. Both of us are willing to go in the direction the Bible teaches. The church that we attend now does not have Sunday school and for various reasons is just not united. I have not felt at home there in a few years. I would like to switch churches so we are exploring the next step. Any ideas or scripture you all could find would be most appreciated.
Jude
14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

Does that Scripture give anyone the right to quote any of the rest of the book of Enoch as Inspired Scripture also?

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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

September 24th, 2012, 6:14 pm #28

I apologize in advance if this is not the place to post this question. This post is actually the result of days of searching the internet trying to find the answer. Right now, my family is trying to decide if Sunday School is Biblical and if that is the road we need to take.

I was raised Baptist while my husband was raised Church of Christ. He has always gone to a church that did NOT have Sunday School. Since we have children now, we feel a conviction to teach our children and to become closer to God ourselves. I see that Sunday School is fine but that is based on the way I was raised. I don't have scripture to back me up. He sees that Sunday School is wrong as it is never mentioned in the Bible, is a pretty new thing being less than 200 years old, and seperates the family. He sees that it is a parents job to teach the child, not the church.

He feels that Sunday School would be fine, like a Bible Study, if it were not a part of the worship service. He has agreed to pray on it as have I. Both of us are willing to go in the direction the Bible teaches. The church that we attend now does not have Sunday school and for various reasons is just not united. I have not felt at home there in a few years. I would like to switch churches so we are exploring the next step. Any ideas or scripture you all could find would be most appreciated.
The Book of Enoch

http://www.piney.com/ApocEnoch1.html

Enoch 7:9 These are the names of their chiefs: Samyaza, who was their leader, Urakabarameel, Akibeel, Tamiel, Ramuel, Danel, Azkeel, Saraknyal, Asael, Armers, Batraal, Anane, Zavebe, Samsaveel, Ertael, Turel, Yomyael, Arazyal. These were the prefects of the two hundred angels, and the remainder were all with them. (6)

(6) The Aramaic texts preserve an earlier list of names of these Watchers:

Semihazah; Artqoph; Ramtel; Kokabel; Ramel; Danieal; Zeqiel; Baraqel; Asael; Hermoni; Matarel; Ananel; Stawel; Samsiel; Sahriel; Tummiel; Turiel; Yomiel; Yhaddiel (Milik, p. 151).

10 Then they took wives, each choosing for himself; whom they began to approach, and with whom they cohabited; teaching them sorcery, incantations, and the dividing of roots and trees.

Again, remember that the "trees" in Eden were various nations. The nation of Assyria in Ezekiel 31 was the "tallest tree in Eden" who sucked up all of the water (the word).

Wives are symbolic of "churches" in the New Testament and of God's chosen people in the Old Testament. When Israel fell into "worship like the nations" it involved songs and instruments as part of religious incantations.

The the Sons of God and Daughters of men, Chapter XIV.-Their Discoveries.

http://www.piney.com/BabSonsOfGod.html#XIV

"For after the intercourse, being asked to show what they were before, and being no longer able to do so, on account of their being unable to do aught else after their defilement, yet wishing to please their mistresses, instead of themselves, they showed the bowel (marrow) of the earth; I mean, the choice metals, [flowers of metal] gold, brass, silver, iron, and the like, with all the most precious stones.

And along with these charmed stones, they delivered the arts of the things pertaining to each, and imparted the discovery of magic, and taught astronomy,

and the powers of roots, and whatever was impossible to be found out by the human mind; also the reeking of gold and silver, and the like, and the various dyeing of garments. And all things, in short,

which are for the adornment and delight of women, are the discoveries of these demons bound in flesh.


Of the king of Tyre as an agent of Lucifer, Ezekiel wrote:

Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold:
the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Eze.28:13

Just rejoice and be glad that you will NEVER EVER find a jot or tittle of opinion which does NOT associate ALL of the hypocritic arts used to silence the Word of God with The Devil: Jesus said that the Sons of the Devil speak on their own when Christ in Isaiah 58 OUTLAWED speaking your own words on the future REST day. The Ministers of the Devil or Babylon Mother of Harlots are called "FRUITS."
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B
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September 24th, 2012, 8:47 pm #29

Jude
14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

Does that Scripture give anyone the right to quote any of the rest of the book of Enoch as Inspired Scripture also?
Would Jude quote a prophecy about God from Enoch if Enoch had not been inspired?

Is Dave now saying that only Enoch's prophecy about God is inspired but the rest of the Book of Enoch is not inspired?

Why would Jude bother to quote from a book if the vast majority of it was not inspired?

Is Dave reluctant to accept the Book of Enoch as inspired simply because a group of mortal men excluded Enoch centuries ago when they decided which books would comprise the biblical canon? Or maybe Dave thinks that a messenger from heaven zapped down to earth and said, "Shazzam! Here's the entire, inspired, biblical canon, but it excludes Enoch!"

As I recall, Dave initially assumed that the words "Bible" and "Holy Bible" appeared regularly throughout the canonical texts; he was "shocked" to learn that not only are those words ABSENT from the canonical texts, but that man also concocted them. Yet the Christian world accepts them as true and valid. So a man who is that ignorant about the content of Scripture would also be gullible enough to believe that we got the biblical canon directly from heaven.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

September 24th, 2012, 10:04 pm #30

The Book of Enoch

http://www.piney.com/ApocEnoch1.html

Enoch 7:9 These are the names of their chiefs: Samyaza, who was their leader, Urakabarameel, Akibeel, Tamiel, Ramuel, Danel, Azkeel, Saraknyal, Asael, Armers, Batraal, Anane, Zavebe, Samsaveel, Ertael, Turel, Yomyael, Arazyal. These were the prefects of the two hundred angels, and the remainder were all with them. (6)

(6) The Aramaic texts preserve an earlier list of names of these Watchers:

Semihazah; Artqoph; Ramtel; Kokabel; Ramel; Danieal; Zeqiel; Baraqel; Asael; Hermoni; Matarel; Ananel; Stawel; Samsiel; Sahriel; Tummiel; Turiel; Yomiel; Yhaddiel (Milik, p. 151).

10 Then they took wives, each choosing for himself; whom they began to approach, and with whom they cohabited; teaching them sorcery, incantations, and the dividing of roots and trees.

Again, remember that the "trees" in Eden were various nations. The nation of Assyria in Ezekiel 31 was the "tallest tree in Eden" who sucked up all of the water (the word).

Wives are symbolic of "churches" in the New Testament and of God's chosen people in the Old Testament. When Israel fell into "worship like the nations" it involved songs and instruments as part of religious incantations.

The the Sons of God and Daughters of men, Chapter XIV.-Their Discoveries.

http://www.piney.com/BabSonsOfGod.html#XIV

"For after the intercourse, being asked to show what they were before, and being no longer able to do so, on account of their being unable to do aught else after their defilement, yet wishing to please their mistresses, instead of themselves, they showed the bowel (marrow) of the earth; I mean, the choice metals, [flowers of metal] gold, brass, silver, iron, and the like, with all the most precious stones.

And along with these charmed stones, they delivered the arts of the things pertaining to each, and imparted the discovery of magic, and taught astronomy,

and the powers of roots, and whatever was impossible to be found out by the human mind; also the reeking of gold and silver, and the like, and the various dyeing of garments. And all things, in short,

which are for the adornment and delight of women, are the discoveries of these demons bound in flesh.


Of the king of Tyre as an agent of Lucifer, Ezekiel wrote:

Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold:
the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Eze.28:13

Just rejoice and be glad that you will NEVER EVER find a jot or tittle of opinion which does NOT associate ALL of the hypocritic arts used to silence the Word of God with The Devil: Jesus said that the Sons of the Devil speak on their own when Christ in Isaiah 58 OUTLAWED speaking your own words on the future REST day. The Ministers of the Devil or Babylon Mother of Harlots are called "FRUITS."
The Book of Jubilees, Chapter One reads:

http://www.piney.com/ApocJubileeBook.html

And the Lord said unto Moses: 'I know their contrariness and their thoughts and their stiffneckedness, and they will not be obedient till they confess

23 their own sin and the sin of their fathers. And after this they will turn to Me in all uprightness and with all (their) heart and with all (their) soul,

and I will circumcise the foreskin of their heart and the foreskin of the heart of their seed,
and I will create IN them A holy spirit,
and I will cleanse them so that they shall not turn away from Me from that day unto eternity.

24 And their souls will cleave to Me and to all My commandments, and they will fulfil My
25 commandments, and I will be their Father and they shall be My children.

And they all shall be called children of the living God, and every angel and every spirit shall know, yea, they shall know that these are My children, and that I am their Father in uprightness and righteousness, and that

26 I love them. And do thou write down for thyself all these words which I declare unto thee on this mountain, the first and the last, which shall come to pass in all the divisions of the days in the law and in the testimony and in the weeks and the jubilees unto eternity, until I descend and dwell
27 with them throughout eternity.'

Isaiah 59:20 And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.
Isaiah 59:21 As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the LORD;
.....My spirit that is upon thee,
.....and my words which I have put in thy mouth,
shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seeds seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever
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