Is pornography grounds for divorce?

Sonny
Sonny

September 26th, 2011, 2:09 am #1

As everyone here knows, I am a centrist on the issue of IM, personally preferring acappella but not teaching that Scripture condemns worship with instrumenal accompaniment as long as one still sings from the heart. However, I have communicated on a few occasions my agreement with the mainstream on topics such as baptism and grace. Anyway, I am wanting input on the issue of pornography pertaining to "sexual immorality" and divorce in Matthew 19. The elders of a very large and respected congregation of which I have family in attendance have had an issue with some wives seeking divorce and the elders have said that pornography is not biblical grounds. I have not heard much teaching directly on this, but know that apparently pornography is a real issue in many marriages. I do not know what the mainstream thought is in the brotherhood but I thought that pornea was a reference to any sexual uncleanness or impurity. Any insight?

-Sonny
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

September 26th, 2011, 4:52 am #2

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Since the initial message was prefaced with: (a) that a cappella is personally preferred by the poster; (b) that Scripture condemns not worship with IM accompaniment; (c) [which is essentially conveying] that whatever the Scripture does not condemn, it is condoned, approved and authorized by God; (d) that as long as one still sings from the heart.

I partially agree when it is a matter of personal preference. I love certain musical instruments. I can listen to a classical pianist play "Moonlight Sonata" all day long, all night long. As well as: Fur Elise, Arabesque, Blue Rondo a la Turk, etc.

However, personal preference has nothing to do with and has no place in God's directive to teach and admonish one another through singing or speaking the word of Christ when saints gather. Can you imagine the variety of "personal preferences" when 300 or 3,000 or 30,000 saints gather?

I can recite "Hail, Mary, Full of Grace, Mother of God" and still sing from the heart about the word of Christ to richly indwell me. I can bring my own soft and quiet musical instrument so as not to disturb others and play it as a personally preferred musical device ... and still sing from the heart. Hallelujah, I'm happy for doing it ... I still sing from the heart.

Then, there is that human philosophy and logic that what God does not condemn, it is condoned, approved and authorized by the same God. That's tantamount to saying, "Just do it since God does not say 'not to.'" So, think again.

The concept of being a "centrist" on a divisive doctrinal issue [and it shouldn't be in the non-IM church] is troubling.

OK, that was all in response to the preface (concerning instrumental music) to the initiated thread pertaining to pornography and divorce.

Let the discussion begin.[/color]
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Dr. Bill Crump
Dr. Bill Crump

September 26th, 2011, 12:24 pm #3

I'm surprised that Sonny didn't throw in birthdays as another convenient little "preface" to this thread.
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Dave
Dave

September 26th, 2011, 5:31 pm #4

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Since the initial message was prefaced with: (a) that a cappella is personally preferred by the poster; (b) that Scripture condemns not worship with IM accompaniment; (c) [which is essentially conveying] that whatever the Scripture does not condemn, it is condoned, approved and authorized by God; (d) that as long as one still sings from the heart.

I partially agree when it is a matter of personal preference. I love certain musical instruments. I can listen to a classical pianist play "Moonlight Sonata" all day long, all night long. As well as: Fur Elise, Arabesque, Blue Rondo a la Turk, etc.

However, personal preference has nothing to do with and has no place in God's directive to teach and admonish one another through singing or speaking the word of Christ when saints gather. Can you imagine the variety of "personal preferences" when 300 or 3,000 or 30,000 saints gather?

I can recite "Hail, Mary, Full of Grace, Mother of God" and still sing from the heart about the word of Christ to richly indwell me. I can bring my own soft and quiet musical instrument so as not to disturb others and play it as a personally preferred musical device ... and still sing from the heart. Hallelujah, I'm happy for doing it ... I still sing from the heart.

Then, there is that human philosophy and logic that what God does not condemn, it is condoned, approved and authorized by the same God. That's tantamount to saying, "Just do it since God does not say 'not to.'" So, think again.

The concept of being a "centrist" on a divisive doctrinal issue [and it shouldn't be in the non-IM church] is troubling.

OK, that was all in response to the preface (concerning instrumental music) to the initiated thread pertaining to pornography and divorce.

Let the discussion begin.[/color]
Donnie said..."However, personal preference has nothing to do with and has no place in God's directive to teach and admonish one another through singing or speaking the word of Christ when saints gather. Can you imagine the variety of "personal preferences" when 300 or 3,000 or 30,000 saints gather?"

God's Word does not specify instrumental music as sinful anywhere in the 66 books. If God doesn't consider it sinful then man will not have credence over God's Word. The fact is....whether one sings with an instrument or without, the singing is still accomplished. If one man PREFERS to aid and accompany the singing with musical instruments and still adheres to the directive of teaching and admonishing one another, then another man PREFERS to use the PA to aid and accompany the singing and another man prefers to use song books to aid and accompany the singing and another man prefers to use a building to house all of GOd's saints to sing and another man wants to employ four part harmony to aid the singing. All of these are preferences used to aid the singing. The singing is accomplished regardless of the aids, which is what God has directed.



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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

September 26th, 2011, 6:11 pm #5

Dave: that's what my wife said when she wanted to add arsenic instead of creamer into my coffee.

Fornication in the spiritual message most often speaks of idolatry: if you ADORE the composition of the preacher and musician more than you adore the Words of God then you are an idolatry. Sorry you cannot hear or read the LAW against "vocal or instrumental rejoicing' or "elevated speaking" when a Holy Convocation is held on REST days. There is no record of that LAW ever being violated although Jesus identified the Scribes and Pharisees as hypocrites by reference to Idaiah and to EZekiel 33 who NAMES speakers, singers and instrument players where Isaiah 58 outlaws seeking your own pleasure or speaking your own words. Everytime you say that there are no commands you just make the VEIL thicker

A man who adores and engages in porno has broken the bond which can only be determined by the offended person.

There is no LAW because there is no Case Law in the Bible or early church history of elders presuming to be judge and jury in this personal relationship.

The elders are commanded to teach that which has been taught. They will have to remove the spiritual adultry of corrupting the word meaning "selling learning at retail" and also meaning adultery before they are competent to get involved in literal "breaking of wedlock." That which is broken like a water glass can rarely beput together again.
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Dr. Bill Crump
Dr. Bill Crump

September 26th, 2011, 6:24 pm #6

As everyone here knows, I am a centrist on the issue of IM, personally preferring acappella but not teaching that Scripture condemns worship with instrumenal accompaniment as long as one still sings from the heart. However, I have communicated on a few occasions my agreement with the mainstream on topics such as baptism and grace. Anyway, I am wanting input on the issue of pornography pertaining to "sexual immorality" and divorce in Matthew 19. The elders of a very large and respected congregation of which I have family in attendance have had an issue with some wives seeking divorce and the elders have said that pornography is not biblical grounds. I have not heard much teaching directly on this, but know that apparently pornography is a real issue in many marriages. I do not know what the mainstream thought is in the brotherhood but I thought that pornea was a reference to any sexual uncleanness or impurity. Any insight?

-Sonny
It looks like Sonny really intended this to be just another weary thread about IM but threw in pornography and divorce as a ruse.
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R*
R*

September 26th, 2011, 8:39 pm #7

Dave: that's what my wife said when she wanted to add arsenic instead of creamer into my coffee.

Fornication in the spiritual message most often speaks of idolatry: if you ADORE the composition of the preacher and musician more than you adore the Words of God then you are an idolatry. Sorry you cannot hear or read the LAW against "vocal or instrumental rejoicing' or "elevated speaking" when a Holy Convocation is held on REST days. There is no record of that LAW ever being violated although Jesus identified the Scribes and Pharisees as hypocrites by reference to Idaiah and to EZekiel 33 who NAMES speakers, singers and instrument players where Isaiah 58 outlaws seeking your own pleasure or speaking your own words. Everytime you say that there are no commands you just make the VEIL thicker

A man who adores and engages in porno has broken the bond which can only be determined by the offended person.

There is no LAW because there is no Case Law in the Bible or early church history of elders presuming to be judge and jury in this personal relationship.

The elders are commanded to teach that which has been taught. They will have to remove the spiritual adultry of corrupting the word meaning "selling learning at retail" and also meaning adultery before they are competent to get involved in literal "breaking of wedlock." That which is broken like a water glass can rarely beput together again.
A man who adores and engages in porno has broken the bond which can only be determined by the offended person.

There is no LAW because there is no Case Law in the Bible or early church history of elders presuming to be judge and jury in this personal relationship.

**************************************************

I can agree with Ken on the above statements.

I really think the MSOP views (breaking up families) are wrong.
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Sonny
Sonny

September 26th, 2011, 11:58 pm #8

It looks like Sonny really intended this to be just another weary thread about IM but threw in pornography and divorce as a ruse.
It looks like some are addicted to arguing against instrumental music. Perhaps this is what some think about 24/7? I am starting the thread again (2nd edition) because I certainly was asking a question about pornography being grounds for divorce. There is more to the bible than just worship wars gents.

-Sonny
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Dr. Bill Crump
Dr. Bill Crump

September 27th, 2011, 12:15 am #9

If Sonny didn't want to start another 24/7 IM war, why did he choose to mention it as a "preface" to a completely unrelated topic about divorce resulting from porn in marriage? Sonny brought this down on his own head.
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

September 27th, 2011, 12:15 am #10

It looks like some are addicted to arguing against instrumental music. Perhaps this is what some think about 24/7? I am starting the thread again (2nd edition) because I certainly was asking a question about pornography being grounds for divorce. There is more to the bible than just worship wars gents.

-Sonny
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Good point about revising and resubmitting the real issue you wanted discussed.

We encourage topical Bible studies and other religious issues -- baptism (biblical) or grace (biblical) or qualifications of elders (biblical) or praise team (non-biblical), instrumental music (non-directive from God although mentioned in the Bible) or the Lord's Supper (biblical), etc.[/color]
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