Is it ok to not support any local Church of Christ? (1 Corinthians 16:1-2 ; Hebrews 10:25)

Bill
Bill

December 1st, 2016, 12:59 pm #31

Which happened first in Acts 10? The gift of the Holy Spirit or baptism? Baptism wasn't first. Acts 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? The baptism came AFTER receinvg the gift.

Ken, one minute you say, being a vicar, "...the gift of A holy spirit which is simply removing UNholiness..." then you say differently by saying this gift is "The Spirit or Breath HAD BEEN poured out at Pentecost: the result of God breathing into you is that you SPEAK."

Instead of ASSUMING that you THINK you know what this gift is, put on some pants, be a man, and admit you just don't know.

One minute the gift is removing unholiness, the next it is speaking. YOU JUST DON'T KNOW.


You asked "What would be the purpose of WASHING if their sins had been washed away." BECAUSE IT HAPPENED. Acts 10 confirms such.

Why would the thief on the cross be with Jesus in paradise if he had been a sinner all of his life? This thief had not been giving any time on earth to show a godly life after Jesus found his heart to be right.

WHY? Because JESUS and GOD can do ANYTHING They want.

How about that for your pattern???

ALSO, does Acts 10:47 say the GIFT of the Holy Ghost, or THE Holy Ghost? Don't tell me what Acts 2:38 says. I KNOW what it says. Does Acts 10:47 give the same story as does Acts 2:48? NO!!! Scripture DOES NOT support your theory that is JUST a gift of the Holy Spirit. Again, you flounder like Hillary because you don't know when to say that you just don't know.

Get out your eubius, your book of Enoch, the DRB, the original letters, and show us that you know more than the rest of us and show us what you are made of...AGAIN!!!

Help him out here Donnie.....AGAIN!!! Show me that grand bit of sarcastic humor that you need to keep yourself and Ken proving beyond a shadow of a doubt...that neither of you have a heart for God.....AGAIN!!!


Dave said, "Get out your eubius..."

What is a "eubius"? Could Dave in his passionately rapid typing have meant "Eusebius"? Just wondering...
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Dave
Dave

December 1st, 2016, 4:31 pm #32

==========================

Donnie said "...that by God's grace one is saved (sins forgiven) first and then be baptized later; etc."

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[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Dave,

You misquoted me in the 1st paragraph of your earlier post above.

That's not what I said. Instead, that's what many of "the change agents" in the brotherhood believe -- similar to the Baptist teaching of: Be saved FIRST; be baptized LATER.[/color]
Donnie,
Which one happened first in Acts 10? Were they baptized first? No. I realize that this is perhaps just one example that goes against the grain, but they were filled with the Holy Ghost first. Do you think that the Holy Ghost would be with them if they weren't saved? They were baptized AFTER they were saved in this example. So if the Scriptures attest to this example of saved first, then baptized later, why is it a Baptist teaching?
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

December 1st, 2016, 5:30 pm #33

==========================

Donnie said "...that by God's grace one is saved (sins forgiven) first and then be baptized later; etc."

==========================


[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Dave,

You misquoted me in the 1st paragraph of your earlier post above.

That's not what I said. Instead, that's what many of "the change agents" in the brotherhood believe -- similar to the Baptist teaching of: Be saved FIRST; be baptized LATER.[/color]
THE Holy Spirit is THE MIND of Christ. When He Speaks what the BREATH of god revealed to Him His WORDS are Spirit and they are life.
Before Peter commanded anything the BREATH of God caused Cornelius to SPEAK: the Jews knew that He was speaking Hebrew. This was a SIGN that the Gentiles could be SAVED by being BAPTIZED into Christ or into the School of Christ without becoming a Jews.
THE another (fuller) Comforter is Jesus Christ the Righteous.

This SIGN did not save Cornelius because even he was smart enough to know that someone would come and SPEAK WORDS telling him hot to be saved. Even Baalam's Ass cam speak if God wants it to but the ASS was not qualified to be Washed with water INTO the Word or into the school of Christ. If you say that Cornelius was saved then you DIMINISH God Who did not need Peter to DEMONSTRATE how the Gentiles now ceremonially pure by the Gace of God might be SAVED. If you say that Cornelius was SAVED because God caused him to speak HEBREW and praise God then you say that Cornelius was deceived because He was waiting for Peter to TELL HIM WORDS by which he could be saved. Peter COMMANDED him to be baptized.

Baptism requests A holy spirit (never a people) so that they could read BLACK text on BROWN paper. If you keep calling Jesus a liar for commanding that ALL NATIONS be discipled by BAPTISM and a life of teaching what JESUS commanded to be taught. Cornelius was already a god fearer and approved by God.

It is OUR Spirits which need to be SANCTIFIED so that words like "obedience" will stick in them.
Here are a few things you HAVE repudiated:

become as
little children
[color=#ff0000" face="Arial],[/color]
[color=#330000" face="Arial]born [again] [/color][color=#330000" face="Arial]of the
[/color]Spirit[color=#990000" face="Arial],[/color]
[color=#330000" face="Arial] [/color]gift of<font face="Arial"> the Holy</font>[color=#990000" face="Arial] [/color]Ghost[color=#990000" face="Arial].[/color]
renewing
<font face="Arial"> </font>of <font color="#cc0000">YOUR mind</font>[color=#330000" face="Arial],[/color]
[color=#330000" face="Arial]walk in NEWNESS[/color]<font color="#cc0000"> of life
have put on
Christ

</font>[color=#330000" face="Arial]YOU [/color]hath he <font color="#cc0000">QUICKENED</font>[color=#cc0000" face="Arial]</font>
<font face="Arial">raised us up
together
[/color][color=#330000" face="Arial],[/color]
made us sit
together in heavenly places

<font face="Arial">RE<font color="#660000">NEWED
</font></font>[color=#330000" face="Arial] the
[/color]spirit of <font color="#cc0000">YOUR
mind
</font>[color=#330000" face="Arial];[/color]
washing
<font face="Arial"> [baptism]</font> of <font color="#cc0000">REgeneration
RE<font color="#660000">NEWING OF</font></font> the<font face="Arial"> [your]
Holy
Ghost

[color=#cc0000" face="Arial]OUR HEARTS[/color] sprinkled</font>[color=#330000" face="Arial] [/color]from[color=#330000" face="Arial] AN evil [/color]conscience[color=#ff0000" face="Arial],[/color]
[color=#330000" face="Arial]an APPEAL [request] [/color][color=#330000" face="Arial]to God for[/color] <font color="#cc0000">A</font>[color=#330000" face="Arial] [/color]clear[color=#330000" face="Arial] [/color]conscience
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

December 1st, 2016, 8:55 pm #34

Why would the thief on the cross be with Jesus in paradise if he had been a sinner all of his life? This thief had not been giving any time on earth to show a godly life after Jesus found his heart to be right.

Jesus can do whatever He wishes: you are not Jesus.

Paradise means the "garden" or "park." The body of Jesus went into the garden of Gethsemane that day: He went to preach the pre flood people.

The Thief died on the cross because he was a thief. He lived before the day of Pentecost and the Last Will and Testament went into effect. He had no reason or right to be baptized IN ORDER to be saved FROM that (this) crooked generation or race of vipers. He did not need A holy spirit or a Co-perception of the Word as the ONE PIECE PATTERN for a Christian who is a Disciple who is a Student of Christ.

If you despise the Spirit OF Christ in Isaiah 1 which is the prophetic promise of Mark 16

Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Believeth or pistos means to TRUST which means to COMPLY.
Believeth not is Apistos which means "I will not comply" and is the mark of the TREACHEROUS enemies of christ.

He that complies and is baptized SHALL BE SAVED.
He that does not comply CANNOT be baptized because they are the Race of Vipers to whom the Baptism of spirit (wind) and of FIRE. is sent. They are now being consumed by the BREATH of their own MOUTHS.

The Gospel is carried by a WINNOWING WIND and it separates the Little Flock of Lost spirits who are NOT OF THIS WORLD from the Viper or Serpent race. The Word blown by the WIND separates the chaff from the wheat and heeps it up in MEGA CHURCHES to make the THE SPIRIT OF BURNING easier.

Those who GLADLY receive the WORD (Logos, regulative principle) want to be BAPTIZED. They are the children of God Jesus was sent to rescue from an evil race. That should be a VISIBLE sign to the watching world which is CONDEMNED at the same time. The flood was a prophetic type of God putting the godly into a "coffin" covered outside and inside by the blood-red bitumen by which the drowning world was condemned.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

December 1st, 2016, 9:04 pm #35

Donnie,
Which one happened first in Acts 10? Were they baptized first? No. I realize that this is perhaps just one example that goes against the grain, but they were filled with the Holy Ghost first. Do you think that the Holy Ghost would be with them if they weren't saved? They were baptized AFTER they were saved in this example. So if the Scriptures attest to this example of saved first, then baptized later, why is it a Baptist teaching?
They were not filled with a GOD PERSON. Spirit is BREATH and breath is connected with SPEAKING. Not even Jesus had a "spirit" person fly into His body.

If you cannot DEFINE words and Scripture which leaves on path you should not agonize over it. Baptism is the SEAL and also the proof of being CLOTHED WITH CHRIST and if you even debate the issue remember that Jude referencing The Book of Enoch warned against OLD SPIRITS which have been UNLEASHED from the smokey pit. I told you that Apollon is the only PERSONIFIED spirit and the leader of the Muses or Locusts identifying ugly people selling body parts retail meaning Corrupting the Word.



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Dave
Dave

December 1st, 2016, 9:20 pm #36

Why would the thief on the cross be with Jesus in paradise if he had been a sinner all of his life? This thief had not been giving any time on earth to show a godly life after Jesus found his heart to be right.

Jesus can do whatever He wishes: you are not Jesus.

Paradise means the "garden" or "park." The body of Jesus went into the garden of Gethsemane that day: He went to preach the pre flood people.

The Thief died on the cross because he was a thief. He lived before the day of Pentecost and the Last Will and Testament went into effect. He had no reason or right to be baptized IN ORDER to be saved FROM that (this) crooked generation or race of vipers. He did not need A holy spirit or a Co-perception of the Word as the ONE PIECE PATTERN for a Christian who is a Disciple who is a Student of Christ.

If you despise the Spirit OF Christ in Isaiah 1 which is the prophetic promise of Mark 16

Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Believeth or pistos means to TRUST which means to COMPLY.
Believeth not is Apistos which means "I will not comply" and is the mark of the TREACHEROUS enemies of christ.

He that complies and is baptized SHALL BE SAVED.
He that does not comply CANNOT be baptized because they are the Race of Vipers to whom the Baptism of spirit (wind) and of FIRE. is sent. They are now being consumed by the BREATH of their own MOUTHS.

The Gospel is carried by a WINNOWING WIND and it separates the Little Flock of Lost spirits who are NOT OF THIS WORLD from the Viper or Serpent race. The Word blown by the WIND separates the chaff from the wheat and heeps it up in MEGA CHURCHES to make the THE SPIRIT OF BURNING easier.

Those who GLADLY receive the WORD (Logos, regulative principle) want to be BAPTIZED. They are the children of God Jesus was sent to rescue from an evil race. That should be a VISIBLE sign to the watching world which is CONDEMNED at the same time. The flood was a prophetic type of God putting the godly into a "coffin" covered outside and inside by the blood-red bitumen by which the drowning world was condemned.
Ken said "Jesus can do whatever He wishes: you are not Jesus."

Gee, Einstein, where did you get that deduction from?

Deduce this one too....If I am not Jesus, then neither are you and quit acting like Jesus has given you special instruction to be His vicar. He doesn't need you to figure it out for the rest of us. You are living proof that He has taken away some understanding from those whom abuse His Word.

This junk about your understanding of a spirit not being in us and that it is breathed, etc. etc. is YOU showing us that you really don't understand it either. Thank you for proving that beyond a doubt. Your problem, Ken, is that you don't want to do as Jesus commanded you to which is to seek and save the lost, you want to resave those that are already saved. You are even trying now to leave out the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit when baptizing......next up is baptizing them in the name of Ken Sublett???
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

December 1st, 2016, 10:24 pm #37

I am just trying to be Jesus' McGuffy Reader.

Everyone knows that A spirit lives within us as Breath and as MENTAL DISPOSITION: our spirit is not another person--normally.

Our spirit becomes AN unholy spirit when we violate the rules of human conduct or against God.
When our sins are WASHED AWAY by baptism--because Jesus told me so--the WE have A holy spirit.

Spirit is like Word: and is not the NAME of a god person you believe is required for the Father to speak to His Son.
Spirit is always the spirit OF something or some one and God is the only Holy Spirit but His name is not Spirit. God gave Jesus the promise of the Holy Spirit which is Jesus in "another" form as Holy Spirit as ASSIGNMENT.

If you cannot grasp that WORD is what God SPEAKS then don't be surprised that you cannot grasp that Spirit is never the name of a person but a description of their ground of being. Spirit is the opposite of Flesh: Spirit is not the opposite of Jimmy.

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Stan
Stan

December 3rd, 2016, 5:53 pm #38

On November 26th I asked if it is ok to not support any local Church of Christ? I am still waiting for Donnie to answer this specific question and not dodge the truth. (1 Corinthians 16:1-2 ; Hebrews 10:25)

Galatians 4:16
Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

December 3rd, 2016, 9:02 pm #39

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Stan,

Thanks for reminding me. Multi-tasking is not one of my strengths especially when it's due to time restraints. And, no, dodging the truth is not one of my idiosyncrasies.

For now I'd like to briefly comment on the two references:

(1) I would like to include the following verse (v. 3) in I Corinthians 16 that you quoted: "[1] Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye. [2] Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come. [3] And when I come, whomsoever ye shall approve by your letters, them will I send to bring your liberality unto Jerusalem."

Some local congregations (esp. large/mega churches) have ongoing issues such as "staff infection." I am not opposed to funds directly supporting mission work and the needy saints. And I'm not in favor of supporting unnecessary "missions" and "ministries" -- the "worship ministry" is one of them. The "musical minister" should seek employment somewhere else: perhaps by being a music teacher in high school or college or by being a symphony director. The salary of a "worship minister" could support several evangelists or missionaries overseas.

The passage calls for the "collection for the saints." The Galatian and Corinthian churches have the responsibility of collecting "for the saints." The first day of the week is a matter of convenience or expediency. The target is Jerusalem in this instance. In my personal case, most of my support goes directly to mission efforts overseas.

(2) [I must needs go.... Sorry.][/color]


======================

[color=#000000" size="3" face="times]I'm back; thanks for your patience. It's continued below[/color] [d.c.]:
Last edited by Donnie.Cruz on December 4th, 2016, 2:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

December 4th, 2016, 2:51 am #40

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times](2) I would like to also include other verses in Hebrews 10 that you quoted:

[1] For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. ... [7] Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. [8] Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; [9] Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. [10] By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. [11] And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: [12] But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; ...

[24] And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: [25] Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. [26] For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins....


In context, we learn about the contrast or comparison between being under the law of Moses (Luke 24:44; Acts 13:39; etc.) and being under the law of Christ (Gal. 6:2).

<font size="3">(Note: While we're also in the midst of discussing Jesus Christ and his relationship to his God the Father [I can't resist bringing it up], we observe how Jesus addressed not himself but his God: "I come to do thy will, O God." Furthermore, the man Jesus Christ, who is the mediator between God and men [I Tim. 2:5], "sat down on the right hand of God.")[/color]

I do not observe in the passage that the assembly needs to be in a designated "worship center." I have no objection to saints gathering at a specific location. But a local school of Christ is devoted to the study of God's Word (rather than "musical worship" being its main purpose), and it does not preclude assembly in the home where members of a family or a number of families can assemble for reading and studying of God's Word and for commemorating Christ's suffering and death on Calvary's tree.

Matt. 18:[20] -- "For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them." Oops ... it does not say, "in the name of F, S, H.S."; it says in the name of Jesus Christ -- a name above every name.

I believe that "the day approaching" is in reference to the Judgment Day.</font>
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