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October 8th, 2012, 12:34 am #11

Their junior youth also run off old men who will not play the organ with modern upbeat music. Perhaps that is your biggest gripe?
A Southern Baptist pastor once claimed that there is nothing in Scripture that says baptism is essential for salvation. He must have torn out Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38, and 1 Peter 3:21 from his Bible.

So Jesus and His apostles present a strong case that baptism is absolutely essential for salvation, yet the Southern Baptists, and who knows how many other similarly apostate denominations, make contrary claims. They make quite a mockery of Christianity.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

October 8th, 2012, 1:08 am #12

Baptism and the Lord's Supper

Christian baptism is the immersion of a believer in water in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. It is an act of obedience symbolizing the believer's faith in a crucified, buried, and risen Saviour, the believer's death to sin, the burial of the old life, and the resurrection to walk in newness of life in Christ Jesus. It is a testimony to his faith in the final resurrection of the dead. Being a church ordinance, it is prerequisite to the privileges of church membership and to the Lord's Supper.

The Lord's Supper is a symbolic act of obedience whereby members of the church, through partaking of the bread and the fruit of the vine, memorialize the death of the Redeemer and anticipate His second coming.

Matthew 3:13-17; 26:26-30; 28:19-20; Mark 1:9-11; 14:22-26; Luke 3:21-22; 22:19-20; John 3:23; Acts 2:41-42; 8:35-39; 16:30-33; 20:7; Romans 6:3-5; 1 Corinthians 10:16,21; 11:23-29; Colossians 2:12.

http://www.sbc.net/bfm/bfm2000.asp
Christian baptism is the immersion of a believer in water in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. It is an act of obedience symbolizing the believer's faith in a crucified, buried, and risen Saviour, the believer's death to sin, the burial of the old life, and the resurrection to walk in newness of life in Christ Jesus.

Baptism does NOT symbolize faith: Baptism is obeying a FORM or ANTI-tupos of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ.

The TUPOS is the death, burial, enspiriting and resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth.
Baptism is obeying the ANTI of that tupos.
ANTI means "instead of." We are baptized INSTEAD of dying on the cross. Denying baptism denies the INSTRUMENTAL MEANS by which we REQUEST A holy spirit or A good conscience."

Know ye not, that so many of us
<font color="#FFFFFF">.....
as were baptized into Jesus Christ
.....were baptized into his death? Rom 6:3


Jesus was dead when he went into the tomb.
He came OUT of the tomb alive.
Therefore in this type or "pattern meant to be imitated" Jesus was not alive before he was buried.

Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death:
that LIKE AS Christ was RAISED up from the dead by the glory of the Father,
even so we also should walk in newness of LIFE. Rom 6:4
This "baptism" is a LIKENESS of Jesus being PLANTED into the tomb. We are not baptized INTO the holy spirit.

For if we have been planted together in the likeness (Form) of his death,
we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Rom 6:5


Baptism of the Spirit was a sign of judgment against the Jews whom John identified as a generation of vipers: Jesus transferred His Spirit or Mind in a face-to-face teaching of WORDS to his selected Apostles.

They gave us the Word as Spirit and Life because Paul said that he MINISTERED the Spirit by PREACHING.
Baptism of Spirit and fire was a promise and a threat: it is not something you can obey:

Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey,
.....his servants ye are to whom ye obey;
.....whether of sin unto death,
.....or of obedience unto righteousness? Rom 6:16


They lie by saying that OBEDIENCE of a direct command is a WORK of self righteousness. Baptists CANNOT give accept even the Bible when it threatens THEIR believe that THEY have been predestined to go to heaven and THEY are frightened of upsetting their PREDESTINATION.

But God be thanked,
.....that ye were the servants of sin,
.....but ye have obeyed from the heart
.....that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Ro.6:17

Being THEN made free from sin,
.....ye became the servants of righteousness. Rom 6:18


No one is said to have sins remitted other than when they OBEY that form or pattern which can be IMITATED. What IS IT about "being then free from sin" isit so impossible to grasp?

Baptists and the "progressives" lie: they claim that those who obey FOR the remission of sins believe that they and add WORKS to grace or faith.




</font>
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October 8th, 2012, 1:14 am #13

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]I am troubled by even members of the body (church) of Christ who, along with their "faith only" denominational friends, share and proclaim a common belief in the religious world that good works are not necessary in the "Christian's salvation."

These same members of the Lord's church gladly sing popular Christian rock songs that it's "NOT by human endeavor" because Christ paid for it ALL on the cross. ALL ... implying that present and future SINS are automatically forgiven even without asking for forgiveness and without repenting.

The Scripture tells me differently that Christians -- members of the body of Christ -- are to maintain good works or works of righteousness. There are numerous passages that support this truth. After all, the Holy Scripture is God's truth.

Unless we are able to to distinguish that man goes through 3 stages or periods in his journey to eternity, we will never understand or diminish or eliminate the conflict concerning man's salvation.

The three (3) stages are as follows:

(1) Past Salvation -- the CONVERSION PROCESS
(2) Present Salvation -- the current stage of Christian living
(3) Future Salvation -- the Judgment that it's either heaven or hell.


This current topic is about the CONVERSION PROCESS[/color] -- the first stage. Do you agree that good works are NOT required for one outside of Christ to be CONVERTED? A correct assessment of this premise will prove that FAITH is essential to obtaining redemption in the blood of Christ.

Common passages used are:

(1) Without including the following verse 10 is Ephesians 2:8,9 -- "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--not by works, so that no one can boast." (NIV)

(2) "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost" (KJV)

The Bible tells us: "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." (II Tim. 2:15, KJV)

When we rightly divide the word of truth, there would be no biblical conflict.

Again, this topic is about CONVERSION. Be assured that I am not a "faith only" Christian. But I would like to propose that in conversion, good works are not necessary. But I would also like to propose that doing "good works" has its place in our present salvation.
William Crump!!! Now hold on son! Weren't you once a organ pumping Baptist yourself?
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

October 8th, 2012, 1:23 am #14

Baptism and the Lord's Supper

Christian baptism is the immersion of a believer in water in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. It is an act of obedience symbolizing the believer's faith in a crucified, buried, and risen Saviour, the believer's death to sin, the burial of the old life, and the resurrection to walk in newness of life in Christ Jesus. It is a testimony to his faith in the final resurrection of the dead. Being a church ordinance, it is prerequisite to the privileges of church membership and to the Lord's Supper.

The Lord's Supper is a symbolic act of obedience whereby members of the church, through partaking of the bread and the fruit of the vine, memorialize the death of the Redeemer and anticipate His second coming.

Matthew 3:13-17; 26:26-30; 28:19-20; Mark 1:9-11; 14:22-26; Luke 3:21-22; 22:19-20; John 3:23; Acts 2:41-42; 8:35-39; 16:30-33; 20:7; Romans 6:3-5; 1 Corinthians 10:16,21; 11:23-29; Colossians 2:12.

http://www.sbc.net/bfm/bfm2000.asp
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Racnor,

Thanks for presenting the doctrine of baptism from this source: the Southern Baptist Convention. This proves the point that the change agents operating in certain congregations of the church of Christ have acquired this new theological view [to them] from the SBC.

I have a couple of friendly questions for you:

(1) When one becomes a Christian, at what point are his sins washed away in the blood of Christ? Before baptism? As in the moment he "accepts Christ as his personal Savior"?

(2) Based on the SBC assertion, does "the burial of the old life" actually OCCUR prior to baptism, and it [the burial] is only SYMBOLIZED DURING the actual baptism?

(3) Your presented this SBC-based theology without specifying whether or not you conform to this thinking. Do you agree with the SBC teaching?[/color]

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October 8th, 2012, 1:26 am #15

Baptism and the Lord's Supper

Christian baptism is the immersion of a believer in water in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. It is an act of obedience symbolizing the believer's faith in a crucified, buried, and risen Saviour, the believer's death to sin, the burial of the old life, and the resurrection to walk in newness of life in Christ Jesus. It is a testimony to his faith in the final resurrection of the dead. Being a church ordinance, it is prerequisite to the privileges of church membership and to the Lord's Supper.

The Lord's Supper is a symbolic act of obedience whereby members of the church, through partaking of the bread and the fruit of the vine, memorialize the death of the Redeemer and anticipate His second coming.

Matthew 3:13-17; 26:26-30; 28:19-20; Mark 1:9-11; 14:22-26; Luke 3:21-22; 22:19-20; John 3:23; Acts 2:41-42; 8:35-39; 16:30-33; 20:7; Romans 6:3-5; 1 Corinthians 10:16,21; 11:23-29; Colossians 2:12.

http://www.sbc.net/bfm/bfm2000.asp
Both baptism and the Lord's Supper are commanded. Baptism is commanded for remission of sins and for salvation (Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38, and 1 Peter 3:21). The Lord's Supper is a memorial to the Lord's Death (1 Cor. 11:26).
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October 8th, 2012, 1:29 am #16

William Crump!!! Now hold on son! Weren't you once a organ pumping Baptist yourself?
Wasn't Paul the apostle once Saul of Tarsus, a persecutor of Christians? Then he (literally) saw the light. Get the picture?

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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

October 8th, 2012, 1:32 am #17

William Crump!!! Now hold on son! Weren't you once a organ pumping Baptist yourself?
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Dave,

This thread is not about your favorite unscriptural, unauthorized endorsement of musical idolatry.

I just found out about this; check it out...

[/color]
Last edited by Donnie.Cruz on October 8th, 2012, 1:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

October 8th, 2012, 1:44 am #18

I am looking at Dave's Baptist text that Jesus was SAVED before he was baptized.

Maybe he will tell Donnie why Matthew 3:13-17 proves that one is saved BEFORE baptism.

The Baptists and their dupes simply have NO interest in understanding why Jesus wore filthy garments and was not pronounced a Son until He came up OUT of the water.
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

October 8th, 2012, 1:57 am #19

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Maybe, Dave can explain how the expression "Christian Baptism" originated.

I think I know -- it is labeled as "Christian Baptism" not because one who is baptized becomes a Christian, but because it is the Christian [not the sinner] who is baptized.

The Christian needs to be baptized!!! That's why it's called "Christian baptism."

What a distortion of the truth!!![/color]
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October 8th, 2012, 2:05 am #20

Baptism and the Lord's Supper

Christian baptism is the immersion of a believer in water in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. It is an act of obedience symbolizing the believer's faith in a crucified, buried, and risen Saviour, the believer's death to sin, the burial of the old life, and the resurrection to walk in newness of life in Christ Jesus. It is a testimony to his faith in the final resurrection of the dead. Being a church ordinance, it is prerequisite to the privileges of church membership and to the Lord's Supper.

The Lord's Supper is a symbolic act of obedience whereby members of the church, through partaking of the bread and the fruit of the vine, memorialize the death of the Redeemer and anticipate His second coming.

Matthew 3:13-17; 26:26-30; 28:19-20; Mark 1:9-11; 14:22-26; Luke 3:21-22; 22:19-20; John 3:23; Acts 2:41-42; 8:35-39; 16:30-33; 20:7; Romans 6:3-5; 1 Corinthians 10:16,21; 11:23-29; Colossians 2:12.

http://www.sbc.net/bfm/bfm2000.asp
I noted that Racnor's list of Scriptural references fails to include Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38, and 1 Peter 3:21, which, taken together, state that baptism is necessary for remission of sins and for salvation.
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