Instrumental Use Is Great

Geadneym
Geadneym

May 8th, 2010, 5:29 pm #1

Psalm 98

1 Sing to the LORD a new song,
for he has done marvelous things;
his right hand and his holy arm
have worked salvation for him.
2 The LORD has made his salvation known
and revealed his righteousness to the nations.

3 He has remembered his love
and his faithfulness to the house of Israel;
all the ends of the earth have seen
the salvation of our God.

4 Shout for joy to the LORD, all the earth,
burst into jubilant song with music;

5 make music to the LORD with the harp,
with the harp and the sound of singing,

6 with trumpets and the blast of the ram's horn
shout for joy before the LORD, the King.

7 Let the sea resound, and everything in it,
the world, and all who live in it.

8 Let the rivers clap their hands,
Let the mountains sing together for joy; 9 let them sing before the LORD,
for he comes to judge the earth.
He will judge the world in righteousness
and the peoples with equity.

Psalm 33:1-3

1 Sing joyfully to the LORD, you righteous;
it is fitting for the upright to praise him.

2 Praise the LORD with the harp;
make music to him on the ten-stringed lyre.

3 Sing to him a new song;
play skillfully, and shout for joy.

Psalm 149

1 Praise the LORD.
Sing to the LORD a new song,
his praise in the assembly of the saints.

2 Let Israel rejoice in their Maker;
let the people of Zion be glad in their King.

3 Let them praise his name with dancing
and make music to him with tambourine and harp.
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Ken Sublett
Ken Sublett

May 8th, 2010, 9:08 pm #2



That's what I told you about David: Psalm 149 has David lusting to get "god" in his bed. You understand that to David, god was not Jehovah but probably some one of the STARRY HOSTS. A star, in this parable can be a musical performer who gets all of the credit.

The whole of the telling of GANYMEDE's story, the mortal boy whose beauty excited the desire of the Greek God ZEUS,

is akin to that of the daughters of memory, the MUSES,
connecting not only the souls of the lovers to each other,
united in their bodies and their minds,
but also to the fact that the goddesses and gods
themselves are embodied in the forces of life itself.

GANYMEDE stands for anybody who, like his Two-Spirit native brother, the coupan of the sub-Arctic Konyagas, stands "drinking in the light of the moon, the stars, absorbing all its brilliance and splendors to become a man of god."

It is also why the physical and emotional rapture of sex has played a vital role in religion, magic, mysticism, occultism, symbolism and the whole range of human dealings with the supernatural.

Far from the preaching of the puerile and puritanically minded who would believe that sex for any purpose other than reproduction is sinful and demonic,

"this experience, or at least an approach to it, is the ultimate aim of all religion, the ultimate reference of all myth and rite." It is the solvent of isolation, a means of moving beyond the normal bounds of human consciousness to touch into cosmic forces, and thereby unite with the whole of life.

Yes indeed, Ganymede's (carries the lyre of hermes or logos) thighs do set the divine light of ZEUS afire and, in the deliverance, GANYMEDE becomes the cupbearer of the gods.


I noted in Tulsa Workshop 2011 where they are going to UNCHAIN something:

http://www.piney.com/Tulsa.Workshop.html

Plut. Rom. 9 Herodorus Ponticus relates that Hercules also was glad to see a vulture present itself when he was upon an exploit. [6] For it is the least harmful of all creatures, injures no grain, fruit-tree, or cattle, and lives on carrion. But it does not kill or maltreat anything that has life, and as for birds, it will not touch them even when they are dead, since they are of its own species.
But eagles, owls, and hawks smite their own kind when alive, and kill them.
And yet, in the words of Aeschylus:5 How shall a bird that preys on fellow bird be clean?
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

May 8th, 2010, 11:24 pm #3

-- Ganymede most often refers to: Ganymede (mythology), Trojan prince in Greek mythology

-- Ganymede (moon), Jupiter's largest moon, named after the mythological character Ganymede, Ganymed or Ganymedes

-- Ganymede is the largest moon of Jupiter, and also the largest in the Solar System

-- Ganymede, the man, the myth, the enslaved cupbearer to Zeus
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Dr. Bill Crump
Dr. Bill Crump

May 9th, 2010, 12:39 am #4

So I wonder why the author of this thread chose to scramble Ganymede as his alias. Recently there was a question about Ganymede on the TV show "Are You Smarter Than a 5th Grader?" The question was "What is the name of the largest moon in our solar system?" The answer, of course, was Ganymede. The contestant, however, had no clue. Just thought I'd pass along that bit of information.
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

May 9th, 2010, 6:37 am #5

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Dr. Bill,

This person admires you greatly -- the same one who scrambled your name. Does "Plcbml Riu" ring a bell? Same one!!! [/color]
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

May 9th, 2010, 7:00 am #6

Psalm 98

1 Sing to the LORD a new song,
for he has done marvelous things;
his right hand and his holy arm
have worked salvation for him.
2 The LORD has made his salvation known
and revealed his righteousness to the nations.

3 He has remembered his love
and his faithfulness to the house of Israel;
all the ends of the earth have seen
the salvation of our God.

4 Shout for joy to the LORD, all the earth,
burst into jubilant song with music;

5 make music to the LORD with the harp,
with the harp and the sound of singing,

6 with trumpets and the blast of the ram's horn
shout for joy before the LORD, the King.

7 Let the sea resound, and everything in it,
the world, and all who live in it.

8 Let the rivers clap their hands,
Let the mountains sing together for joy; 9 let them sing before the LORD,
for he comes to judge the earth.
He will judge the world in righteousness
and the peoples with equity.

Psalm 33:1-3

1 Sing joyfully to the LORD, you righteous;
it is fitting for the upright to praise him.

2 Praise the LORD with the harp;
make music to him on the ten-stringed lyre.

3 Sing to him a new song;
play skillfully, and shout for joy.

Psalm 149

1 Praise the LORD.
Sing to the LORD a new song,
his praise in the assembly of the saints.

2 Let Israel rejoice in their Maker;
let the people of Zion be glad in their King.

3 Let them praise his name with dancing
and make music to him with tambourine and harp.
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]The original post does not have a premise.

The passages quoted list only the following musical instruments:

-- harp
-- trumpets
-- tambourine
-- ram's horn
-- ten-stringed lyre
-- [PLUS dancing, of course]

Ganymede should have listed more:

-- tabret
-- cornet
-- viol
-- flute
-- cymbal
-- psaltery
-- timbrel
-- dulcimer
-- sackbut

Daniel 3 lists a number of these instruments:[/color]

[color=#FF0000" size="3" face="times][5] That at what time ye hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, dulcimer, and all kinds of musick, ye fall down and worship the golden image that Nebuchadnezzar the king hath set up:

[7] Therefore at that time, when all the people heard the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, and all kinds of musick, all the people, the nations, and the languages, fell down and worshipped the golden image that Nebuchadnezzar the king had set up.

[10] Thou, O king, hast made a decree, that every man that shall hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, and dulcimer, and all kinds of musick, shall fall down and worship the golden image:

[15] Now if ye be ready that at what time ye hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, and dulcimer, and all kinds of musick, ye fall down and worship the image which I have made; well: but if ye worship not, ye shall be cast the same hour into the midst of a burning fiery furnace; and who is that God that shall deliver you out of my hands?
[/color]

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Question: Who ORDAINED musical instruments:

______ (a) Moses
______ (b) God
______ (c) David the musician
______ (d) Christ
______ (e) The apostles[/color]
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Dr. Bill Crump
Dr. Bill Crump

May 9th, 2010, 3:04 pm #7

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Dr. Bill,

This person admires you greatly -- the same one who scrambled your name. Does "Plcbml Riu" ring a bell? Same one!!! [/color]
Yes, "Plcbml Riu" looks quite familiar. Sometimes when he posted, he created (or attempted to create) different anagrams of my name; for example, "Pcmbll Riu." Another time, however, he left out an "l" and came up with "Pcmbl Riu," which failed.

An old adage says, "Mimicry is the highest form of flattery." So I guess that creating all sorts of anagrams of a person's name would qualify as one form of mimicry. I am indeed flattered.

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Geadneym
Geadneym

May 9th, 2010, 6:30 pm #8

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]The original post does not have a premise.

The passages quoted list only the following musical instruments:

-- harp
-- trumpets
-- tambourine
-- ram's horn
-- ten-stringed lyre
-- [PLUS dancing, of course]

Ganymede should have listed more:

-- tabret
-- cornet
-- viol
-- flute
-- cymbal
-- psaltery
-- timbrel
-- dulcimer
-- sackbut

Daniel 3 lists a number of these instruments:[/color]

[color=#FF0000" size="3" face="times][5] That at what time ye hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, dulcimer, and all kinds of musick, ye fall down and worship the golden image that Nebuchadnezzar the king hath set up:

[7] Therefore at that time, when all the people heard the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, and all kinds of musick, all the people, the nations, and the languages, fell down and worshipped the golden image that Nebuchadnezzar the king had set up.

[10] Thou, O king, hast made a decree, that every man that shall hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, and dulcimer, and all kinds of musick, shall fall down and worship the golden image:

[15] Now if ye be ready that at what time ye hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, and dulcimer, and all kinds of musick, ye fall down and worship the image which I have made; well: but if ye worship not, ye shall be cast the same hour into the midst of a burning fiery furnace; and who is that God that shall deliver you out of my hands?
[/color]

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Question: Who ORDAINED musical instruments:

______ (a) Moses
______ (b) God
______ (c) David the musician
______ (d) Christ
______ (e) The apostles[/color]
Guess when the book of Psalms contradicts your denominational belief system, the response seen here is to black marker said passages.
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

May 10th, 2010, 12:40 am #9

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]No. Of course, not. But the book of Psalms is not a belief system. So, it does not contradict any belief system. Simply put, it has its own place in the literary and history as a book in the Bible. It cannot be discarded any more than the books of Proverbs, Job, Song of Solomon, the Chronicles and others.

If you have researched the answer to the question posed earlier, please let us know what you've found out. The Bible has revealed as to who ORDAINED musical instruments. There is only one correct answer to the question.[/color]
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Dr. Bill Crump
Dr. Bill Crump

May 10th, 2010, 2:00 am #10

Guess when the book of Psalms contradicts your denominational belief system, the response seen here is to black marker said passages.
When Christians desire instrumental music in worship, they usually turn to the Old Testament, the Psalms in particular, for "justification." They fixate ONLY on the passages that mention instrumental music and IGNORE passages such as the following:

"I will not reprove thee for thy sacrifices or thy burnt offerings, [to have been] continually before me" (Psalm 50:8 KJV).

"Then shalt thou be pleased with the sacrifices of righteousness, with burnt offering and whole burnt offering: then shall they offer bullocks upon thine altar" (Psalm 51:19 KJV).

"I will offer unto thee burnt sacrifices of fatlings, with the incense of rams; I will offer bullocks with goats. Selah" (Psalm 66:15 KJV).

"And let them sacrifice the sacrifices of thanksgiving, and declare his works with rejoicing" (Psalm 107:22).


All of those passages above from the Psalms mention burnt offerings and sacrifices. So if Christians use the Psalms to "justify" their worship, why choose only the instrument passages yet ignore the very important passages about burning sacrifices to God? Aren't BOTH important to God? Would God accept worship that featured instruments but did not include burnt offerings as well? If Christians use instruments but do not burn sacrifices, are they not "tossing out the Psalms"? The Psalms say to burn sacrifices to God as well as to praise Him with instruments.

The Law of Moses required burnt offerings and sacrifices, and the Psalms upheld the Law of Moses. So here's the real question: Are Christians still under the Law of Moses today? If so, then Christians must not only use instruments in worship (as mentioned in the Psalms), but they must do EVERYTHING else that the Law of Moses required, such as burning sacrifices.

But then we read in the New Testament that Christ nailed the whole Law of Moses to His cross (Col. 2:14). All the religious rituals such as instrumental music, sacrifices, dietary laws, and hundreds of other laws were nailed to the cross. Christ fulfilled the Law of Moses with the Law of Christ, meaning that the worship rituals and practices that were connected with the Law of Moses are not valid today in Christian worship.

Paul warned Christians against being justified by anything connected with the Law of Moses. He used mandatory circumcision as just one example:

"Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love" (Gal. 5:1-6 KJV).

If any Christian is justified by the rituals of the Law of Moses, he becomes a debtor to do the WHOLE Law of Moses; hence, he makes Christ of no effect and falls from grace.

The passages of Eph. 5:19 and Col. 3:16 are also quite familiar and instruct us to sing and make melody in our hearts.

The Psalms today are of historical value, but we certainly cannot justify Christian worship by the rituals found therein, because they are associated with the Law of Moses. Therefore, we cannot use the Psalms to justify instrumental music in worship.

Of course, this subject has been debated and debated, hashed and rehashed for centuries, yet those who want instrumental music in worship will have it anyway, regardless of what the New Testament teaches. Such Christians are not content to follow the simple principles in the New Testament and put the Law of Moses behind them.
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