Ken Sublett
Ken Sublett

May 15th, 2010, 2:48 am #61

Titus 3 - NIV

9.) But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless. 10.) Warn a divisive person once, and then warn him a second time. After that, have nothing to do with him. 11.) You may be sure that such a man is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned.


PUT them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work, Titus 3:1

To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men. Titus 3:2

For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another. Titus 3:3

Edone (g2237) hay-don-ay'; from handano , (to please); sensual delight; by impl. desire: - lust, pleasure

FROM whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members? Ja.4:1

Hêdonê , 3. Pl., desires after pleasure, pleasant lusts, X.Mem.1.2.23, Ep.Tit.3.3, al. A. enjoyment, pleasure, first in Simon.71, S.l.c., Hdt.1.24, al.; prop. of sensual pleasures,

2 The orthios nomos was a high-pitched (and apparently very well-known) song or hymn in honor of Apollo.


Titus 3:8 This is a faithful saying. and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

Foolish is:

Moros (g3474) mo-ros'; prob. from the base of 3466; dull or stupid (as if shut up), i.e. heedless, (mor.) blockhead, (appar.) absurd: - fool (-ish, * -ishness).

Môros A. môran Herod.5.17 (s. v.l.):--dull, sluggish, of the nerves, b. in a religious sense, laos m. kai akardios [p. 1159] LXXJe.5.21,al.


You have to be on the STAFF to be contentious.

CONTENTIONS
Agôn-istikos , 2. fit for contest in speaking, a. lexis debating style
3. masterly, striking, a. prorrêmata Hp.Art.58 ; a. ti echous a having in it something glorious
b. Rhetoric, striking, impressive,
4. Medic., 'heroic', i.e. copious
II. of persons, contentious, eager for applause,
2. Dramatic Aeido sing, Il.1.604, etc.: hence of all kinds of vocal sounds, crow as cocks, Pl.Smp..223c; hoot as owls, of other sounds, twang, of the bow-string, sing, chant praise, celebrate, OPPOSITE of Calming.


A man that is an heretick, after the first and second admonition reject; Titus 3:10

In Romans 15 Paul outlawed self pleasure derived from the word:

Hairetikos (g141) hahee-ret-ee-kos'; from the same as 140; a schismatic: - heretic [the Gr. word itself].

In the Greek sacrificial systems the musicians were called PARASITES who made the lambs dumb before the slaughter. The HERETIC was the priest who "lifted them up to cut their throats."

This word is

Airo (g142) ah'ee-ro; a prim. verb; to lift; by impl. to take up or away; fig. to raise (the voice), keep in suspense (the mind); <b>spec. to sail away (i.e. weigh anchor); by Heb. [comp. 5375] to expiate sin: - away with, bear (up), carry, lift up, loose, make to doubt, put away, remove, take (away, up).</b>

This is the same as the LADED BURDEN Jesus outlawed as "creating spiritual anxiety through religious ritual." In both Hebrew and Greek a BURDEN is the form of repeating type songs so popular in 'worship" as vain repitition. The REST Jesus gave us means "STOP the speaking, singing, playing instruments." Pretty elementary to anyone who knows that ekklesia is a School (only) of the Word (only).

This is the SELF PLEASURE Paul outlawed for the synagogue in Romans 15 and LIMITED it to speaking with one mind and one mouth and using that which is written.
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Ken Sublett
Ken Sublett

May 15th, 2010, 3:48 am #62

Paul always repudiates the performance religions of the world before he defines the role of the church or ekklesia which beginning as The Church in the wilderness was:

INCLUSIVE of rest, reading and rehearsing the word. That is what you do as a DISCIPLE
EXCLUSIVE of vocal or instrumental rejoicing. That would not be hallucinated if people understood "church" and had respect to Jesus Christ as our sole Teacher when we teachthat which has been taught.

I have had to put together some pictures so the links won't work




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Wayne Miller
Wayne Miller

May 16th, 2010, 4:08 am #63

Proverbs 18 - NIV

2.) Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions.


Titus 3 - NIV

9.) But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless. 10.) Warn a divisive person once, and then warn him a second time. After that, have nothing to do with him. 11.) You may be sure that such a man is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned.


First warning.


=========================

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Edited the author's name from: [font color="#F26E00"]Wayne Miller

Edited the message title from: [font color="#F26E00"]Response to Ken Sublett[/font] [/color]
Last edited by Donnie.Cruz on May 24th, 2010, 5:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

May 16th, 2010, 5:04 am #64

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Wayne,

If change agents weren't divisive and trouble-makers in the church, they would be seeking fellowship with those who already share their beliefs, i.e., somewhere else. The church that Christ established does not need transformation or modification. If it weren't for the change agents, this website wouldn't be in existence today. But it is here because their efforts to destroy the church and disturb peaceful congregations need to be exposed. These agents remind me of the progressive and liberal agenda in politics that are subtly and gradually destroying America -- in the same manner are they destroying the church of Jesus Christ.[/color]
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Wayne Miller
Wayne Miller

May 16th, 2010, 10:30 am #65

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Ken Sublett
Ken Sublett

May 16th, 2010, 6:22 pm #66

Psalm 98

1 Sing to the LORD a new song,
for he has done marvelous things;
his right hand and his holy arm
have worked salvation for him.
2 The LORD has made his salvation known
and revealed his righteousness to the nations.

3 He has remembered his love
and his faithfulness to the house of Israel;
all the ends of the earth have seen
the salvation of our God.

4 Shout for joy to the LORD, all the earth,
burst into jubilant song with music;

5 make music to the LORD with the harp,
with the harp and the sound of singing,

6 with trumpets and the blast of the ram's horn
shout for joy before the LORD, the King.

7 Let the sea resound, and everything in it,
the world, and all who live in it.

8 Let the rivers clap their hands,
Let the mountains sing together for joy; 9 let them sing before the LORD,
for he comes to judge the earth.
He will judge the world in righteousness
and the peoples with equity.

Psalm 33:1-3

1 Sing joyfully to the LORD, you righteous;
it is fitting for the upright to praise him.

2 Praise the LORD with the harp;
make music to him on the ten-stringed lyre.

3 Sing to him a new song;
play skillfully, and shout for joy.

Psalm 149

1 Praise the LORD.
Sing to the LORD a new song,
his praise in the assembly of the saints.

2 Let Israel rejoice in their Maker;
let the people of Zion be glad in their King.

3 Let them praise his name with dancing
and make music to him with tambourine and harp.
My guess is that Charlie is that falsetto who gets POWER POINTS when he sings, claps, gyrates with or without "a machine for doing hard work" to produce SYMPHONY or making all of the bodies move in sync: that was always known as "leading you into the presence of the gods or demons so THEY could enrapture or RAPE anyone whose ARMS will clap of fly.





Christ Who DOES NOT speak through the old Levite baby burning cult but prophets like Isaiah warned those OF FAITH or OF TRUTH that these are the marks of SIGHT AND SOUND of God driving His enemies into hell -- just outside of Jerusalem the city set on seven hills and the mother of harlots.

http://www.piney.com/Isa30LXX.html

Sorry Charlie! no SUCKER FISH in Christ's net. The "lusted after fruits" are also defined by Titus 3 but NOT readable for anyone who has pretended to be Christ standing in the holy place CLAIMING to be mediators in song and limpy-armed preaching.

Maybe you can come back as an earthworm: I am told that they won't make the same mistake three times in a row.
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

May 17th, 2010, 12:00 am #67

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Good to know you're in agreement with what the Scripture teaches regarding unity in the church. You're also in agreement with the objective of this website -- change agents need NOT modify how God structured His church. In other words, they should leave peaceful congregations alone.

The efforts of change agents in the brotherhood need to be stopped. Their acquired doctrine and teachings must be refuted -- they cause division and turmoil in the church. There are congregations that have been thankful to this website for having exposed their acquired beliefs from the denominational world.

Clearly, as the passages you quoted confirm and assert -- the kingdom of Christ shall stand forever; it does not need the wisdom of change agents. Truly, they should leave the church alone. Otherwise, they start their own church(es) from scratch.[/color]
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

May 17th, 2010, 6:25 am #68

Psalm 98

1 Sing to the LORD a new song,
for he has done marvelous things;
his right hand and his holy arm
have worked salvation for him.
2 The LORD has made his salvation known
and revealed his righteousness to the nations.

3 He has remembered his love
and his faithfulness to the house of Israel;
all the ends of the earth have seen
the salvation of our God.

4 Shout for joy to the LORD, all the earth,
burst into jubilant song with music;

5 make music to the LORD with the harp,
with the harp and the sound of singing,

6 with trumpets and the blast of the ram's horn
shout for joy before the LORD, the King.

7 Let the sea resound, and everything in it,
the world, and all who live in it.

8 Let the rivers clap their hands,
Let the mountains sing together for joy; 9 let them sing before the LORD,
for he comes to judge the earth.
He will judge the world in righteousness
and the peoples with equity.

Psalm 33:1-3

1 Sing joyfully to the LORD, you righteous;
it is fitting for the upright to praise him.

2 Praise the LORD with the harp;
make music to him on the ten-stringed lyre.

3 Sing to him a new song;
play skillfully, and shout for joy.

Psalm 149

1 Praise the LORD.
Sing to the LORD a new song,
his praise in the assembly of the saints.

2 Let Israel rejoice in their Maker;
let the people of Zion be glad in their King.

3 Let them praise his name with dancing
and make music to him with tambourine and harp.
Dave stated the following:

"[1] The PA system ... AIDS in the worship to our Lord but does ... so with the piano which also
AIDS in the worship to our Lord. Man takes it upon himself to delineate between the two."


[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Brief response to Dave: Dave, I'll have to disappoint you a bit because I'm having the Primitive Baptist
Church respond to you. Why? Because you have that much disregard for what the Scripture says and
what the church of Christ [of which you are a member] says about IM in accordance with scriptural
specifications.

(1). God told Noah to make thee an ark of gopher wood... (Gen 6:14). God specified the kind of wood,
but that did not eliminate aids. What aids could he use?


=======================================================
Commandment..........|........Aid........|..Addition
=======================================================
Use gopher wood......|Hammer, Saw........|Poplar, Oak
=======================================================[/color]

If built with the hammer and saw, it would still be an ark of gopher wood. If another type of wood were
added, it would not be that which the Lord commanded.

<font size="1" face="courier">
========================================================
Scriptural Example...|........Aid........|..Addition
========================================================
Fruit of the vine....|Table..............|Milk, Coke
________________________________________________________
Bread................|Plate..............|BBQ Pork Chops
========================================================


If served with a plate and on a table, the specified food would still be partaken. If another type of food
were added, it would not be that which the Lord commanded.

Christ wants us to sing. He gives the commandment to sing. He specified the type of music. What would
constitute an aid and an addition?


========================================================
Commandment...|........Aid........|..Addition
========================================================
Sing..........|Song book, Notes...|Play
========================================================x


If we sing with a song book which has notes, the specified music would be heard by God and nothing else.
If another type of music were added, it would not be that which the Lord commanded. </font>

------------ More of David's fallacious arguments later ---------------

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Dr. Bill Crump
Dr. Bill Crump

May 17th, 2010, 1:44 pm #69

Somewhere in this "discussion," Dave mentioned that four-part harmony is no more wrong than IM is wrong. Again, he compares apples to oranges, just as he does with the PA system to IM.

In the New Testament, God does not issue any commands regarding such incidentals in worship as church buildings, pews, podiums, PA systems, kitchens, and even four-part harmony. He simply tells us through Paul to SING and to make melody in our hearts. God neither specifies how loudly or softly we are to sing, how fast or slow, nor does He specify whether we are to sing in unison or in harmony. He does specify the KIND of music to use in worship, which is VOCAL music or singing. That type of music may be sung loudly or softly, fast or slow, in unison or in harmony. Instrumental music is altogether a DIFFERENT kind of music from vocal music. IM is just as different from vocal music as BBQ pork chops and soft drinks are different from bread and fruit of the vine for the Lord's Supper. If we use chops and soft drinks for the Lord's Supper, we add to or substitute what God has commanded to be used. Likewise, if we use IM, we ADD to what He has commanded regarding worship music. We must use what God SPECIFIES for a particular act of worship. Since God gives no command regarding PA systems, church buildings, podiums, kitchens, toilets, and hundreds of other incidentals, then we are free to use them at will, because they DO NOT conflict with any of God's existing commands regarding worship. IM most definitely conflicts with God's existing command to use VOCAL music in worship.

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Philip
Philip

May 17th, 2010, 4:45 pm #70

IM most definitely conflicts with God's existing command to use VOCAL music in worship.
When ever i sing, it is not in conflict with the instruments. Your own argument is self defeating, simply an aid for those of us who cant carry a song in a bucket. So the problem is how it is "classified" by Donnie, Ken and the other Pharisees on this site. Will no longer view this site, but will continue to work in the Body of Christ for meaningful change.
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