"I am Music and I write the songs."

Ken Sublett
Ken Sublett

July 19th, 2005, 3:36 pm #61

ALL of the "instrumental" Psalms and indeed most of them are WARRIOR'S CHANTS. Remember Gideon? If you want to PANIC the enemy and turn them into COWARDS then you project about any kind of BOASTING SONGS at them and you create doubt. This BATTLE CRY of the "Warriors" against Christ is the ONLY meaning of MUSIC when CHRISTIANS are trying to worship God in the PLACE of their human SPIRIT.

<font color=red>Psa 47:1 (To the chief Musician, A Psalm for the sons of Korah.)
O clap your hands, all ye people; shout unto God with the voice of triumph.</font>

Clapping IS an instrumental panic sound--the Startle Reflex USED by ABUSERS:
  • <font color=blue>Taqa (h8628) taw-kah'; a prim. root; to clatter, i. e. slap (the hands together), clang (an instrument); by anal. to drive (a nail or tent-pin, a dart, etc.); by impl. to become bondsman (by hand-clasping): - blow ([a trumpet]), cast, clap, fasten, pitch [tent], smite, sound, strike, * suretiship, thrust.

    And Ehud put forth his left hand, and took the dagger from his right thigh, and thrust it into his belly: Jud.3:21

    And Jael went out to meet Sisera, and said unto him, Turn in, my lord, turn in to me; fear not. And when he had turned in unto her into the tent, she covered him with a mantle. Jud.4:18

    And he said unto her, Give me, I pray thee, a little water to drink; for I am thirsty. And she opened a bottle of milk, and gave him drink, and covered him. Jud 4:19

    Again he said unto her, Stand in the door of the tent, and it shall be, when any man doth come and enquire of thee, and say, Is there any man here? that thou shalt say, No. Jud 4:20

    Then Jael Hebers wife took a nail of the tent, and took an hammer in her hand, and went softly unto him, and SMOTE the nail into his temples, and fastened it into the ground: for he was fast asleep and weary. So he died. Jud 4:21 </font>
Shout is:
  • <font color=blue>Ruwa (h7321) roo-ah'; a prim. root; to mar (espec. by breaking); fig. to split the ears (with sound), i. e. shout (for alarm or joy): - blow an alarm, cry (alarm, aloud, out), destroy, make a joyful noise, smart, shout (for joy), sound an alarm, triumph. </font>
This was not worship but a BATTLE CRY as are all of the "instrumental" Psalms. Psalm 41 prophesied that Judas would try to TRIUMPH over Jesus:
  • <font color=blue>By this I know that thou favourest me, because mine enemy doth not TRIUMPH over me. Ps.41:11 </font>
This is the MARK OF JUDAS who was indwelled by Satan or Lucifer (Zoe) who tried to BLEED OFF honor due only to God. This needs no proving: when you are CLAPPING and oohing and ahhing at the singy-clappy boys and listening to THEIR words then it is self-evident that you are trying to TRIUMPH OVER the words of Christ clearly commanded for the assembly. In fact, you are lusting for what has always been know as THE HAREM OF THE GODS. The WRONG spirit is infesting you guys: the same one Jesus induced in Judas when he MARKED him with the SOP which has the same base as PSALLO or MELODY.

Judas was this 'enemy' and also familiar friend. The Judas Bag was always attached to a flute case. It was for "carrying the mouthpieces of wind instruments." Judas betrayed Jesus but it was the usual Levitical Warrior "musicians" who musically mocked Jesus.

The congregation is the word QAHAL which means the "synagogue." The people were never gathered together except for INSTRUCTIONS. On some first days and all seventh days this was to hold a holy convocation. This word means to READ or REHEARSE which is the meaning of Stephen's "church in the wilderness."
  • <font color=blue>But when the congregation is to be gathered together, ye shall blow, but ye shall NOT sound an alarm. Nu.10:7

    And the SONS of Aaron, the priests, shall blow with the trumpets; and they shall be to you for an ordinance for ever throughout your generations. Num 10:8

    And if ye go to WAR in your land against the ENEMY that oppresseth you, then ye shall blow an alarm with the trumpets; and ye shall be remembered before the Lord your God, and ye shall be saved from your enemies. Nu.10:9 </font>
Charismatic (perverted) music always creates the impulse of FIGHT, FLIGHT or sexuality. The sexuality is a YO-YO effect: the sexual feelings MARKED by hand clapping and "body worship" creates more endorphins which creates more "sexual" PLEASURING which Paul outlawed for the synagogue in Romans 15.

The voice of TRIUMPH is:
  • <font color=blue>Rinnah (h7440) rin-naw'; from 7442; prop. a creaking (or shrill sound), i. e. shout (of joy or grief): - cry, gladness, joy, proclamation, rejoicing, shouting, sing (-ing), triumph.

    And when they began to sing and to praise, the Lord set AMBUSHMENTS against the children of Ammon, Moab, and mount Seir, which were come against Judah; and they were smitten. 2 Chron 20: 22

    Ranah (h7439) raw-naw'; a prim. root; to whiz: - rattle.

    He mocketh at fear, and is not affrighted; neither turneth he back from the sword. Job 39:22

    The quiver rattleth against him, the glittering spear and the shield. Job 39:23 </font>
<font color=red>For the Lord most high is terrible; he is a great King over all the earth. Psa 47:2

He shall subdue the people under us, and the nations under our feet. Psa 47:3 </font>

The secular, evil DAVID wanted to shed the blood OF the Gentiles: the spiritual DAVID shed HIS blood FOR the Gentiles. You are MAKING WAR againt Christ and His People.
  • <font color=blue>And the ten HORNS out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings. Dan 7:24
    • Horn is Qeren (h7162) keh'-ren; corresp. to 7161; a horn (lit. or for sound): - horn, cornet.

      Therefore at that time, when all the people heard the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, and all kinds of musick, all the people, the nations, and the languages, fell down and worshipped the golden image that Nebuchadnezzar the king had set up. Da.3:7
    And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall WEAR OUT the saints of the most High, and think to CHANGE TIMES and LAWS: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. Da.7:25 </font>
Eat, Drink and Make Mary!
Quote
Share

Donnie Cruz
Donnie Cruz

July 20th, 2005, 3:25 am #62

Psalm 47:1-9

1 To the Chief Musician. A Psalm of the sons of Korah. Oh, clap your hands, all you peoples! Shout to God with the voice of triumph! 2 For the Lord Most High is awesome; He is a great King over all the earth. 3 He will subdue the peoples under us, And the nations under our feet. 4 He will choose our inheritance for us, The excellence of Jacob whom He loves. Selah

5 God has gone up with a shout, The Lord with the sound of a trumpet. 6 Sing praises to God, sing praises! Sing praises to our King, sing praises! 7 For God is the King of all the earth; Sing praises with understanding. 8 God reigns over the nations; God sits on His holy throne. 9 The princes of the people have gathered together, The people of the God of Abraham. For the shields of the earth belong to God; He is greatly exalted.

E.B.
<font color=indigo size=3 face=times new roman>E.B., E.B., E.B.,

When did you get converted to charismatic-ism!!!

You know, if you really check out the book of Psalms, more frequently than not, the pronoun “I” is associated with the expression “sing praise”—NOT with my brother Estill and sister Estella, not with brother Robin and sister Robin, not with brother John and sister Johnna, not with sister Paula and brother Paul, not with sister Michelle and brother Michael, et al. Praising the Lord in the life of a Christian is personal. Anyway, these are only a few to represent many of the references in the book of Psalms where praising is personal—not necessarily shared or congregational. By “shared” I mean—one does not have to wait till assembly time to do the musically-driven rah-rah-rah in public … and not do it anymore … not again until the next musical-worship-led rah-rah-rah. It’s probably the reason why “praise” songs are not included in the teaching and admonishing one another in: (1) psalms and (2) hymns and (3) spiritual songs. Can you imagine saying, “Brother John, let me teach and admonish you to praise the way I praise…”?
  • Ps. 7:17—“I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.”
  • Ps. 9:2—“I will be glad and rejoice in thee: I will sing praise to thy name, O thou most High.”
  • Ps. 18:49—“Therefore will I give thanks unto thee, O LORD, among the heathen, and ing praises unto thy name.”
  • Ps. 27:6—“And now shall mine head be lifted up above mine enemies round about me: … I will sing, yea, I will sing praises unto the LORD.”
  • Ps. 30:12—“To the end that my glory may sing praise to thee, and not be silent. O LORD my God, I will give thanks unto …”
  • Ps. 61:8—“So will I sing praise unto thy name for ever, that I may daily perform my vows.”
  • Ps. 75:9—“But I will declare for ever; I will sing praises to the God of Jacob.”
  • Ps. 104:33—“I will sing unto the LORD as long as I live: I will sing praise to my God while I have my being.”
  • Ps. 108:3—“I will praise thee, O LORD, among the people: and I will sing praises unto thee among the nations.”
  • Ps. 138:1—“I will praise thee with my whole heart: before the gods will I sing praise unto thee.”
  • Ps. 144:9—“I will sing a new song unto thee, O God: upon a psaltery and an instrument of ten strings will I sing praises unto thee.”
  • Ps. 146:2—“While I live will I praise the LORD: I will sing praises unto my God while I have any being.”
Donnie </font>
Quote
Share

Donnie Cruz
Donnie Cruz

July 20th, 2005, 4:15 am #63

Psalm 47:1-9

1 To the Chief Musician. A Psalm of the sons of Korah. Oh, clap your hands, all you peoples! Shout to God with the voice of triumph! 2 For the Lord Most High is awesome; He is a great King over all the earth. 3 He will subdue the peoples under us, And the nations under our feet. 4 He will choose our inheritance for us, The excellence of Jacob whom He loves. Selah

5 God has gone up with a shout, The Lord with the sound of a trumpet. 6 Sing praises to God, sing praises! Sing praises to our King, sing praises! 7 For God is the King of all the earth; Sing praises with understanding. 8 God reigns over the nations; God sits on His holy throne. 9 The princes of the people have gathered together, The people of the God of Abraham. For the shields of the earth belong to God; He is greatly exalted.

E.B.
<font color=blue size=3 face=times new roman>
  • II Kings 11—[ 11] And the guard stood, every man with his weapons in his hand, round about the king, from the right corner of the temple to the left corner of the temple, along by the altar and the temple. [12] And he brought forth the king's son, and put the crown upon him, and gave him the testimony; and they made him king, and anointed him; and they clapped their hands, and said, God save the king. [13] And when Athaliah heard the noise of the guard and of the people, she came to the people into the temple of the LORD. [14] And when she looked, behold, the king stood by a pillar, as the manner was, and the princes and the trumpeters by the king, and all the people of the land rejoiced, and blew with trumpets: and Athaliah rent her clothes, and cried, Treason, Treason.
  • Job 27—[19] The rich man shall lie down, but he shall not be gathered: he openeth his eyes, and he is not. [20] Terrors take hold on him as waters, a tempest stealeth him away in the night. [21] The east wind carrieth him away, and he departeth: and as a storm hurleth him out of his place. [22] For God shall cast upon him, and not spare: he would fain flee out of his hand. [23] Men shall clap their hands at him, and shall hiss him out of his place.
  • Job 34—[37] For he addeth rebellion unto his sin, he clappeth his hands among us, and multiplieth his words against God.
  • Psalms 98—[7] Let the sea roar, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein. [8] Let the floods clap their hands: let the hills be joyful together….
  • Isaiah 55—[12] For ye shall go out with joy, and be led forth with peace: the mountains and the hills shall break forth before you into singing, and all the trees of the field shall clap their hands.
  • Lament. 2—[15] All that pass by clap their hands at thee; they hiss and wag their head at the daughter of Jerusalem, saying, Is this the city that men call The perfection of beauty, The joy of the whole earth? [16] All thine enemies have opened their mouth against thee: they hiss and gnash the teeth: they say, We have swallowed her up: certainly this is the day that we looked for; we have found, we have seen it.
  • Ezekiel 25—[5] And I will make Rabbah a stable for camels, and the Ammonites a couchingplace for flocks: and ye shall know that I am the LORD. [6] For thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thou hast clapped thine hands, and stamped with the feet, and rejoiced in heart with all thy despite against the land of Israel; [7] Behold, therefore I will stretch out mine hand upon thee, and will deliver thee for a spoil to the heathen; and I will cut thee off from the people, and I will cause thee to perish out of the countries: I will destroy thee; and thou shalt know that I am the LORD.
  • Nahum 3—[18] Thy shepherds slumber, O king of Assyria: thy nobles shall dwell in the dust: thy people is scattered upon the mountains, and no man gathereth them. [19] There is no healing of thy bruise; thy wound is grievous: all that hear the bruit of thee shall clap the hands over thee: for upon whom hath not thy wickedness passed continually?
Sorry, there is not a single example of congregational worship clapping found in the New Testament. Even the word “clap” is nowhere to be found in the New Testament.

Donnie</font>
Quote
Share

John
John

July 20th, 2005, 12:57 pm #64

Can you take this space and list every single congregational worship in the NT? Surely there are many if we in the Church of Christ can base an entire theology of worship on them.
Quote
Share

Ken Sublett
Ken Sublett

July 20th, 2005, 2:23 pm #65

Absolutely, John:
We might begin with the understanding of the MEANING of Restoration Movement. John Calvin called his goal a Restoration of the church promised and built by Jesus, approved by the apostles and which existed until the apostasy of preaching, singing, using non-inspired text, taking up collections for able-bodied men and just about everything you probably have in mind.

http://www.piney.com/calvinworship.html
  • <font color = blue>I come now to ceremonies, which, while they ought to be grave attestations of divine worship, are rather a mere mockery of God. A new Judaism, as a substitute for that which God had distinctly abrogated, has again been reared up by means of numerous puerile extravagancies, collected from different quarters; and with these have been mixed up certain impious rites, partly borrowed from the heathen, and more adapted to some theatrical show than to the dignity of our religion.

    The first evil here is, that an immense number of ceremonies, which God had by his authority abrogated, once for all, have been again revived.

    The next evil is that, while ceremonies ought to be living exercises of piety, men are vainly occupied with numbers of them that are both frivolous and useless.

    But by far the most deadly evil of all is, that after men have thus mocked God with ceremonies of one kind or other, they think they have fulfillled their duty as admirably as if these ceremonies included in them the whole essence of piety and divine worship.</font>
We link the Catholic Encyclopedia to prove that things like MUSIC was borrowed from pagans because it was the one thing COMMON to all pagan cults. We know exactly when the church added SINGING other than "speaking" the songs as Paul demands: the year 373 too late to be New Testament.

Jesus did not define worship as we define worship. He promised to build an ekklesia or synagogue or SCHOOL OF THE BIBLE which must be defined as the synagogue existed with the addition of the Lord's Supper. There was NO PRAISE SERVICE IN THE SYNAGOGUE. Even common sense and common decency demands that when you assemble for instructions you don't clap in the face of the Teacher. The First at times and the Sevent day throughout the Old Covenant was NOT for what we call worship but for REST. This specificially quarantined the Jews FROM the religious rituals borrowed from Babylon and Canaan. The Holy Convocation meant to REST and READ or REHEARSE the Word of God.

Thomas Campbell defined the CHURCH as "A school of Christ" and WORSHIP as reading and musing about the Word of God. That was the meaning of SPEAKING to one another, using the INSPIRED TEXT and leaving the "singing AND melody" within the human heart. Just take a look at all of the HIGH PLACES in Nashville and new ones budding all of the time. Probably with a SPIRE longer than YOUR SPIRE:
  • <font color = blue>And in all thine abominations and thy whoredoms
    thou hast not remembered the days of thy youth,
    when thou wast naked and bare, and wast polluted in thy blood. Ezek 16:22

    And it came to pass after all thy wickedness, (woe, woe unto thee saith the Lord God;) Ezek 16:23

    That thou hast also built unto thee an eminent place,
    and hast made thee an high place in every street. Ezek 16:24

    Thou hast built thy high place at every head of the way,
    and hast made thy beauty to be abhorred,
    and hast opened thy feet to every one that passed by,
    and multiplied thy whoredoms. Ezek 16:25

    Thou hast also committed fornication
    with the Egyptians thy neighbours, great of flesh;
    and hast increased thy whoredoms,
    to provoke me to anger. Ezek 16:26

    Behold, therefore I have stretched out my hand over thee,
    and have diminished thine ordinary food,
    and delivered thee unto the will of them that hate thee,
    the daughters of the Philistines,
    which are ashamed of thy lewd way. Ezek 16:27

    Thou hast played the whore also with the Assyrians,
    because thou wast unsatiable;
    yea, thou hast played the harlot with them,
    and yet couldest not be satisfied. Ezek 16:28

    Thou hast moreover multiplied thy fornication
    in the land of Canaan unto Chaldea;
    and yet thou wast not satisfied herewith. Ezek 16:29

    How weak is thine heart, saith the Lord God,
    seeing thou doest all these things,
    the work of an imperious whorish woman; Ezek 16:30

    In that thou buildest thine eminent place in the head of every way,
    and makest thine high place in every street;
    and hast not been as an harlot,
    in that thou scornest hire; Ezek 16:31

    But as a wife that committeth adultery,
    which taketh strangers instead of her husband Ezek 16:32

    They give gifts to all whores: but thou givest thy gifts to all thy lovers,
    and HIREST them, that they may come unto thee
    on every side for thy whoredom. Ezek 16:33</font>
The SINGERS and MUSICIANS in a "worship center" always SERVED as the HAREM OF THE GODS.
Quote
Share

Donnie Cruz
Donnie Cruz

August 5th, 2005, 7:23 am #66

<font color=blue size=3 face=times new roman>
  • II Kings 11—[ 11] And the guard stood, every man with his weapons in his hand, round about the king, from the right corner of the temple to the left corner of the temple, along by the altar and the temple. [12] And he brought forth the king's son, and put the crown upon him, and gave him the testimony; and they made him king, and anointed him; and they clapped their hands, and said, God save the king. [13] And when Athaliah heard the noise of the guard and of the people, she came to the people into the temple of the LORD. [14] And when she looked, behold, the king stood by a pillar, as the manner was, and the princes and the trumpeters by the king, and all the people of the land rejoiced, and blew with trumpets: and Athaliah rent her clothes, and cried, Treason, Treason.
  • Job 27—[19] The rich man shall lie down, but he shall not be gathered: he openeth his eyes, and he is not. [20] Terrors take hold on him as waters, a tempest stealeth him away in the night. [21] The east wind carrieth him away, and he departeth: and as a storm hurleth him out of his place. [22] For God shall cast upon him, and not spare: he would fain flee out of his hand. [23] Men shall clap their hands at him, and shall hiss him out of his place.
  • Job 34—[37] For he addeth rebellion unto his sin, he clappeth his hands among us, and multiplieth his words against God.
  • Psalms 98—[7] Let the sea roar, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein. [8] Let the floods clap their hands: let the hills be joyful together….
  • Isaiah 55—[12] For ye shall go out with joy, and be led forth with peace: the mountains and the hills shall break forth before you into singing, and all the trees of the field shall clap their hands.
  • Lament. 2—[15] All that pass by clap their hands at thee; they hiss and wag their head at the daughter of Jerusalem, saying, Is this the city that men call The perfection of beauty, The joy of the whole earth? [16] All thine enemies have opened their mouth against thee: they hiss and gnash the teeth: they say, We have swallowed her up: certainly this is the day that we looked for; we have found, we have seen it.
  • Ezekiel 25—[5] And I will make Rabbah a stable for camels, and the Ammonites a couchingplace for flocks: and ye shall know that I am the LORD. [6] For thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thou hast clapped thine hands, and stamped with the feet, and rejoiced in heart with all thy despite against the land of Israel; [7] Behold, therefore I will stretch out mine hand upon thee, and will deliver thee for a spoil to the heathen; and I will cut thee off from the people, and I will cause thee to perish out of the countries: I will destroy thee; and thou shalt know that I am the LORD.
  • Nahum 3—[18] Thy shepherds slumber, O king of Assyria: thy nobles shall dwell in the dust: thy people is scattered upon the mountains, and no man gathereth them. [19] There is no healing of thy bruise; thy wound is grievous: all that hear the bruit of thee shall clap the hands over thee: for upon whom hath not thy wickedness passed continually?
Sorry, there is not a single example of congregational worship clapping found in the New Testament. Even the word “clap” is nowhere to be found in the New Testament.

Donnie</font>
<font color=indigo size=3 face=times new roman>Not only does the “Worship Leader” order the congregants to “Clap Your Hands” [© Copyright 1998 Integrity’s Hosanna! Music, Charley LeBlanc], but also does he frequently proclaim the message in the following musical piece. Peter says in the Bible, “Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons” (Acts 10:34). See what’s wrong with this message:
  • Title: “Boundless Love” (Dennis Loewen)
    © Copyright 1980 by John T. Benson Publishing

    [v1] Boundless love, unending joy,
    this is my life, it’s what I know.
    And I can’t believe that He selected me!
    Jesus, my Lord, it’s You I owe.

    [v2] Boundless grace because of Calvary,
    His life He gave, His love outpoured.
    And I now can live with Him eternally.
    Jesus my Lord, it’s You I owe.
Sorry, Ronald, can you believe that God did not select you?

Donnie</font>
Quote
Share

Estill B.
Estill B.

August 6th, 2005, 10:31 am #67

<font color=indigo size=3 face=times new roman>E.B., E.B., E.B.,

When did you get converted to charismatic-ism!!!

You know, if you really check out the book of Psalms, more frequently than not, the pronoun “I” is associated with the expression “sing praise”—NOT with my brother Estill and sister Estella, not with brother Robin and sister Robin, not with brother John and sister Johnna, not with sister Paula and brother Paul, not with sister Michelle and brother Michael, et al. Praising the Lord in the life of a Christian is personal. Anyway, these are only a few to represent many of the references in the book of Psalms where praising is personal—not necessarily shared or congregational. By “shared” I mean—one does not have to wait till assembly time to do the musically-driven rah-rah-rah in public … and not do it anymore … not again until the next musical-worship-led rah-rah-rah. It’s probably the reason why “praise” songs are not included in the teaching and admonishing one another in: (1) psalms and (2) hymns and (3) spiritual songs. Can you imagine saying, “Brother John, let me teach and admonish you to praise the way I praise…”?
  • Ps. 7:17—“I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.”
  • Ps. 9:2—“I will be glad and rejoice in thee: I will sing praise to thy name, O thou most High.”
  • Ps. 18:49—“Therefore will I give thanks unto thee, O LORD, among the heathen, and ing praises unto thy name.”
  • Ps. 27:6—“And now shall mine head be lifted up above mine enemies round about me: … I will sing, yea, I will sing praises unto the LORD.”
  • Ps. 30:12—“To the end that my glory may sing praise to thee, and not be silent. O LORD my God, I will give thanks unto …”
  • Ps. 61:8—“So will I sing praise unto thy name for ever, that I may daily perform my vows.”
  • Ps. 75:9—“But I will declare for ever; I will sing praises to the God of Jacob.”
  • Ps. 104:33—“I will sing unto the LORD as long as I live: I will sing praise to my God while I have my being.”
  • Ps. 108:3—“I will praise thee, O LORD, among the people: and I will sing praises unto thee among the nations.”
  • Ps. 138:1—“I will praise thee with my whole heart: before the gods will I sing praise unto thee.”
  • Ps. 144:9—“I will sing a new song unto thee, O God: upon a psaltery and an instrument of ten strings will I sing praises unto thee.”
  • Ps. 146:2—“While I live will I praise the LORD: I will sing praises unto my God while I have any being.”
Donnie </font>
And yet, Donnie, there are indeed references to worship/praise with others as well:

Psalms 95:1-6

Oh come, let us sing to the Lord! Let us shout joyfully to the Rock of our salvation. Let us come before His presence with thanksgiving; Let us shout joyfully to Him with psalms. For the Lord is the great God, And the great King above all gods. In His hand are the deep places of the earth; The heights of the hills are His also. The sea is His, for He made it; And His hands formed the dry land. Oh come, let us worship and bow down; Let us kneel before the Lord our Maker.

Psalms 132:1-10

A Song of Ascents. Lord, remember David And all his afflictions; How he swore to the Lord, And vowed to the Mighty One of Jacob: "Surely I will not go into the chamber of my house, Or go up to the comfort of my bed; I will not give sleep to my eyes Or slumber to my eyelids, Until I find a place for the Lord, A dwelling place for the Mighty One of Jacob." Behold, we heard of it in Ephrathah; We found it in the fields of the woods. Let us go into His tabernacle; Let us worship at His footstool. Arise, O Lord, to Your resting place, You and the ark of Your strength. Let Your priests be clothed with righteousness, And let Your saints shout for joy. For Your servant David's sake, Do not turn away the face of Your Anointed.

Hebrews 13:15

Therefore by Him let us continually offer the sacrifice of praise to God, that is, the fruit of our lips, giving thanks to His name.

E.B.
Quote
Share

Donnie Cruz
Donnie Cruz

October 1st, 2005, 3:11 am #68

<font color=indigo size=3 face=times new roman>Not only does the “Worship Leader” order the congregants to “Clap Your Hands” [© Copyright 1998 Integrity’s Hosanna! Music, Charley LeBlanc], but also does he frequently proclaim the message in the following musical piece. Peter says in the Bible, “Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons” (Acts 10:34). See what’s wrong with this message:
  • Title: “Boundless Love” (Dennis Loewen)
    © Copyright 1980 by John T. Benson Publishing

    [v1] Boundless love, unending joy,
    this is my life, it’s what I know.
    And I can’t believe that He selected me!
    Jesus, my Lord, it’s You I owe.

    [v2] Boundless grace because of Calvary,
    His life He gave, His love outpoured.
    And I now can live with Him eternally.
    Jesus my Lord, it’s You I owe.
Sorry, Ronald, can you believe that God did not select you?

Donnie</font>
<font size=3 face=times new roman>Here’s a post taken from “MORE CHURCHES” forum. Two links to the 2-part thread concerning the Smith Springs congregation’s connection to the Engedi Ministries are listed below. Links to the “Engedi Ministries” organization and to “Engedi Ministries Exposed” are also provided:
I was intrigued by the title of the post “Songs of Calvin.” The article is impacting. Why? We know that some congregations are having to deal NOT ONLY with many musically-entertaining, lacking-in-truth Contemporary Christian Rock Music pieces BUT ALSO with certain truth-perverted hymns of the last few centuries. Interestingly, our own church hymn writers and their hymns are fast becoming “extinct.” Please read:
  • <font color=indigo>Fairview Frank 65.13.240.7
    Songs of Calvin September 30 2005, 3:05 PM

    As I compared the Engedi Ministries Homepage with the warnings at Engedi Ministries Exposed I had a real sense of deja vu. I was curious if the Exposed link was exaggerating its claims of some Smith Spring's leaders strong association with the PCA branch of the Presbyterian church. Sure enough, the Engedi classes this fall are being taught by a Presby. PCA Pastor! Engedi's homepage synopsis says that Pastor D. Filson, of the Good Shepherd Presby. church in Bellvue Tenn. will be teaching this fall's series on Christian hymns.

    The subject is to include analysis of songs by Saint Augustine, John Calvin, Martin Luther and Jonathan Edwards (ALL predestination-ists). The study, it says, is designed to 'stimulate a love for solid theology' and deals with 'music that brims with theology'. I guess they mean it overflows with Calvinism, don't you guess?

    What is noticably missing from the discussion? ANY songs written by any of our brethren in the churches of Christ, though that is where you'll find every single Engedi leader on Sunday mornings! It's interesting that men like Bro. L.O.Sanderson and Tillet S. Teddlie don't even get honorable-mention status. I guess the song BE WITH ME LORD must be too shallow, theologically, or maybe it's just too humanistic in its theme.

    Come on Engedi guys, get real and be honest with YOURSELVES for a change.
    </font>
Well, Frank, there it is. Madison’s feel-good “Worship Leader” has a favorite “Song of Calvin” in the misinterpreted song “Boundless Love.”

<font color=blue>“And I can’t believe that He selected me!”</font></font>
Quote
Share

mike b.
mike b.

October 26th, 2005, 4:35 am #69

Brothers,

I say this with utmost respect for you all:
I didn't want to actually count up the entries in this thread, but let me estimate that over 90% is complaint and/or argument. Why are we not instead discussing the glory, honor, virtue, words and actions of the Man Himself: Jesus, our Lord and Saviour?! Why have we turned inward to bite and devour one another? Indeed it would seem we are consuming one another to our utter destruction.
I believe many of us are gospel starved. Why do I not get a confident response when I ask a room full of our brethren, "If you die now, will you go to Heaven?" Why do some seem to think I'm arrogant when I say I know I'm saved?
Could it be spiritual misfocus, and even misplaced faith? Ya, some people are under the conventional religious spell that bewitched the Galatians and do not admit their helplessness to save themselves and put their trust in Jesus to save them. Some are instead trusting in what they are doing to save them, when there is absolutely no way. It only results in the self righteousness of the Pharisee in Luke 18, or in complete dispair in those honest enough to admit they cannot keep the law.
May I re-write the formula?
Not Faith + Works = Salvation,
But Faith = Salvation + Works
I know someone, if not many are going to pounce on me with James 2. The thing is, the kind of faith whereby we simply mentally acknowledge that Jesus is the Son of God and died for our sins is one definition of faith. The devils also believe, confess and make requests. Did you know it's possible to OBEY someone you fear and hate? But there is no fear in LOVE (1 John 4:18). And the preceding verse conclusively shows that it means fear of judgment. Putting our TRUST in Jesus to save us is quite another definition of faith. Do we trust Him? It's this kind of trust that bears fruit. If we abide in Jesus, we will bear fruit, with a light and easy yoke. It's this kind of trust that allows us to recognize God's love in Jesus (the GOSPEL) for us all and motivates us to reciprocate it. 'Cause none of us is good enough to be saved. None of us deserves to go to Heaven. Realizing this, also humbles us and reduces our judgmental tendencies. It inspires us to edify, rather than attack, bite and devour.
Let me again allow you to pounce on me by asserting that I will not disfellowship myself with a fellow believer who does not reject Jesus':
1. Deity
2. Humanity
3. Necessity
4. Sufficiency
These are the heresies that were being dealt with in the Bible. Not the trivial stuff we separate ourselves over. No one is going to fully agree on every issue. I don't believe it's necessary, nor do I believe that is what Paul meant by "speak the same thing" and "be of the same mind". Romans 14 has to be put into practice.
Some apparently think that preaching of grace will promote spiritual laziness or worse, a feeling of license to "sin that grace may abound." On the contrary, I fully disagree. Some will abuse grace in such a way, but most when Jesus is lifted up will be drawn powerfully unto Him. But we have to preach CHRISTianity, not CHURCHianity. The church does not save us; Jesus does.
Last year, I heard a preacher make a profound observation. Let me paraphrase: [We have bigger things to concern ourselves with. We have a generation growing up that is asking not if they should use instruments in worship, but whether to worship Jesus or Buddah.]
Gents, I know no one did it intentionally, but in our efforts to be the original, 1st-century church of our Lord, we started dotting i's and crossing t's and came up with a checklist in order to be "right". We started searching the scriptures, because in them we thought we have eternal life, and somehow Jesus, of Whom they testify, we lost sight of. We marginalized Him and put the church and doctrine at the center. The whole Bible is about Jesus! Either God's preparations for Him to come or the glorious announcement that He has done so, destroying the power of death. Praise God!
I'm not suggesting we abandon the effort to follow God's pattern. But let's get our eyes and our FOCUS back on Him and His one over-riding command: "Love one another as I have loved you."

May the Lord richly bless you all,



mike b.



Quote
Share

Doug B
Doug B

October 26th, 2005, 2:41 pm #70

Mike B,

That was a very appropriate post. I appreciate your humility and desire to seek the ideals of the Kingdom above all else.

I can imagine, though, that a scathing rebuke will soon be coming your way. I have not seen any post that challenges what the "moderator" has to say that has not been torn apart.

Thank you again for your wisdom.
Quote
Share