How should the congregation be ruled?

Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

January 15th, 2017, 7:16 am #21

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Sarge,

This is the trend in "progressive" [changing] churches of Christ. Here's one way to test this somewhat impressive title of "Pastor." If your congregation has gone "progressive," address or greet your "Senior Minister" or "Preaching Minister" [as in]: "Pastor Sharpton, how are you this morning?"

"Pastor" Max Lucado of Oak Hills Church [which dropped the name "of Christ" under his watch] is well known. Wikipedia: Lucado was named "America's Pastor" by Christianity Today magazine and in 2005 was named by Reader's Digest as "The Best Preacher in America."

(Speaking of Lucado, read something about him and his political stance. I'd be interested in Dave asking Max Lucado if he voted for Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton this recent election. The title of the article is: "Why Max Lucado Broke His Political Silence for Trump" at this link: http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/200 ... /8.58.html

This trend. however, is not as popular or as culture-driven as the "progressive" move by the Change Agents in the brotherhood to transform or transition certain church of Christ congregations to Community Church-ism.

More can be said about certain church of Christ congregations emulating Baptist and other Protestant Churches in regard to addressing the "preacher" as (or embracing the title of) "Pastor."[/color]
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Sarge
Sarge

January 15th, 2017, 6:35 pm #22


A pastor is always a minister, while a minister is not always a pastor.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

January 15th, 2017, 7:49 pm #23

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Sarge,

This is the trend in "progressive" [changing] churches of Christ. Here's one way to test this somewhat impressive title of "Pastor." If your congregation has gone "progressive," address or greet your "Senior Minister" or "Preaching Minister" [as in]: "Pastor Sharpton, how are you this morning?"

"Pastor" Max Lucado of Oak Hills Church [which dropped the name "of Christ" under his watch] is well known. Wikipedia: Lucado was named "America's Pastor" by Christianity Today magazine and in 2005 was named by Reader's Digest as "The Best Preacher in America."

(Speaking of Lucado, read something about him and his political stance. I'd be interested in Dave asking Max Lucado if he voted for Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton this recent election. The title of the article is: "Why Max Lucado Broke His Political Silence for Trump" at this link: http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/200 ... /8.58.html

This trend. however, is not as popular or as culture-driven as the "progressive" move by the Change Agents in the brotherhood to transform or transition certain church of Christ congregations to Community Church-ism.

More can be said about certain church of Christ congregations emulating Baptist and other Protestant Churches in regard to addressing the "preacher" as (or embracing the title of) "Pastor."[/color]
They ARE the pastors as "Kings set over us." That is because they were purpose driven to drag the elders off in workshop and NEUTER them. The Hirelings now speak of THE LEADERSHIP which is led by the elders. Rubel Shelly began by saying the elders are the SENIOR MINISTER'S shepherds. However, by virtue of their training and "charisma" the reachers ARE the leaders.

That is because in my Tennessee I have known only one elder who was apt or did teach and He was part of the Lipscomb purging of anyone not a theologian (the study of Apollon). That was about the time the Bible Guru was turned in because he was caught in bed with another man. Especially the Smith Spring's forum had much to say about who got picked by whom. The rise of the Performance Music certifies the claim. I can remember a new hired Music Worship minister replacing the vocational expert made the hair stand up on my neck.

That is also because men with money are selected to fund the new 20/20 vision produced by men such as David Young who speaks of Vision Casting which like Lynn Anderson change and Discipling is WICCA SPEAK.

Donnie can tell about one who threatened and did remove his "church in exile" if he didn't get his way.
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

January 15th, 2017, 10:24 pm #24

A pastor is always a minister, while a minister is not always a pastor.
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="ties]Let's be more specific, Sarge. In what sense are you making that statement?

1. In the Baptist Church, there is only one pastor [e.g., "Reverend Al Maxey" or "Reverend Max Lucado"] in charge of the congregation, and it has deacons.

2. As you know, in the church of Christ, the N.T. pattern is for the local church to have qualified elders (a.k.a. bishops, pastors/shepherds). A local church may not have enough men to qualify for the office and/or have its own minister/evangelist.

3. Other.

You may be using the term "pastor" and "elder" interchangeably. In that case: "An elder is always a 'minister' [in ministry]; a minister [preacher] may be one of the elders."[/color]
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Scripture
Scripture

January 16th, 2017, 2:25 am #25

They ARE the pastors as "Kings set over us." That is because they were purpose driven to drag the elders off in workshop and NEUTER them. The Hirelings now speak of THE LEADERSHIP which is led by the elders. Rubel Shelly began by saying the elders are the SENIOR MINISTER'S shepherds. However, by virtue of their training and "charisma" the reachers ARE the leaders.

That is because in my Tennessee I have known only one elder who was apt or did teach and He was part of the Lipscomb purging of anyone not a theologian (the study of Apollon). That was about the time the Bible Guru was turned in because he was caught in bed with another man. Especially the Smith Spring's forum had much to say about who got picked by whom. The rise of the Performance Music certifies the claim. I can remember a new hired Music Worship minister replacing the vocational expert made the hair stand up on my neck.

That is also because men with money are selected to fund the new 20/20 vision produced by men such as David Young who speaks of Vision Casting which like Lynn Anderson change and Discipling is WICCA SPEAK.

Donnie can tell about one who threatened and did remove his "church in exile" if he didn't get his way.
Gender is a huge issue in the Baptist Church since its members tend to be matriarchal. Catholic families are more patriarchal. A Catholic man married to a Baptist woman has his work cut out for him. Other churches have less gender issues. Baptists are very sensitive about gender.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

January 16th, 2017, 3:27 am #26

From Jesus we know that no one has command rulership over others. Isn't there a qualifier about who rules, how and the meaning of obey?

Heb. 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

The Word is the Logos or regulative principle which excludes the forms of dominance by any of the performing artists. I haven't met an elder who knew that the LOGOS as a term for God who knows that the LOGOS prevents what they do in an institutional, keep the thing running activity.

Lipscomb said that an elder has no more authority after he is recognized than he had before. Lenski interprets Paul's instruction to point out or identify men who are already laboring to exhaustion in preaching and teaching.

If elders decide to do something not Biblical or disturbing, the "thought leaders" vow that you are obligated to OBEY. That is the same psychological violence as claiming that "a" spirit told me to tell you to obey me. They accused J. W. McGarvey of sowing discord for leaving the wreck.

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Sarge
Sarge

January 16th, 2017, 2:29 pm #27

Gender is a huge issue in the Baptist Church since its members tend to be matriarchal. Catholic families are more patriarchal. A Catholic man married to a Baptist woman has his work cut out for him. Other churches have less gender issues. Baptists are very sensitive about gender.

Very good article. I concur. I try to treat Women is this fashion.


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Question: "What is chivalry? Does the Bible instruct men to be chivalrous?"

Answer: The English word chivalry comes from the Old French word chevalerie, which originated in medieval times and pertained to the code of conduct required for knights. Chivalry is usually thought of as courteous behavior, especially men’s courtesy toward women. In days gone by, chivalry was expected in polite society. But, with cultural norms shifting, it can be difficult to know whether chivalry is still expected or whether it is gone with the wind.

Good manners are always appropriate for both men and women. Ephesians 5:21 tells the church to “submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.” So, biblical chivalry starts with a humble spirit and a willingness to put the needs of others before one’s own needs (Romans 12:3; Philippians 2:3). And, while God created men and women equal in value, spirit, and intelligence, He also placed within the male heart a desire to guard and protect the women in his care. God created men and women differently in function and perspective so that we would complement, not compete with one another. Part of a man’s innate bent toward protecting and valuing the beauty of a woman is reflected through chivalrous acts. By deferring to the women in his company—holding doors, helping with coats, rising when she enters—a man is fulfilling that God-instilled part of him that needs to honor female beauty.

First Peter 3:7 alludes to the innate difference between men and woman, instructing husbands to treat their wives with consideration as a “weaker vessel” and a joint-heir to the things of Christ. We might say that husbands are to practice chivalry toward their wives. The term weaker vessel does not mean “inferior person,” as Peter immediately follows the term with the concept of spiritual equality. It this instance, “weaker” is better understood as “delicate without being frail,” much as an antique, highly valued Chinese vase is delicate but not frail. When changing the oil in your car, you would not use such a vase to catch the used oil because the vase is of such high quality. You might pour the used motor oil into an old tin can, which is stronger but not of high quality.

True biblical chivalry builds upon the concept found in 1 Peter 3:7 and expresses itself in dozens of ways by showing honor and deference to women. Chivalry is a way of demonstrating respect for God’s design, not the character of the woman in question. Many women do not conduct themselves in ways that invite chivalry, but that does not excuse rudeness on the man’s part. God’s instruction to women is that they strive for a “gentle and quiet spirit” (1 Peter 3:4). A woman who conducts herself with such kindness and class finds that men often respond to her with acts of chivalry.

Chivalry is a choice men should make. A godly man treats women with respect because he recognizes they are created in the image of God and therefore inherently worthy of courtesy.

Recommended Resource: Manhood Restored: How the Gospel Makes Men Whole by Eric Mason


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Sarge
Sarge

January 16th, 2017, 5:32 pm #28



Does [color=#0000FF" size="5" face="times][ . . . ][/color]?

Peace.


_______________________

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Thanks for the article above.[/color]
Last edited by Donnie.Cruz on January 16th, 2017, 6:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Sarge
Sarge

January 16th, 2017, 6:09 pm #29


HOORAY!

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Scripture
Scripture

January 17th, 2017, 2:51 am #30

What does this mean?


Preachers in the COC can now call each other "Pastor".
Pastor literally means Shepherd. Churches of Christ accept elders as church authority and so don't like it to applied to preachers. Figuratively any good example can be shepherding. May we all seek to set good examples to save the sheep fold.
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