Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

August 1st, 2011, 2:31 am #21

Jesus charged the Scribes and Pharisees (writers and deliverers of prayers or songs) with being hypocrites. Christ in Ezekiel 33 named them as Preachers, singers and instrument players.

In all of the Greek literature a hypocrite is a rhetorician who relies on his own sexy appearance and delivery style, singers and instrument players. These were His comparison to identify NOTHING AT ALL like people who listen to the Word of God for entertainment with no intention of believing or obeying: identical to the sermon and songs you heard this morning working their little heart out to make sure that Jesus is made silent before the slaughter.




Having that NEW preacher who can attract all of the butterlies is a laded burden or legalism.

Forcing people to listen to OTHERS sing and watch their testesteron slowly drain away is a LEGALISTIC BURDEN imposed on godly people.

Forcing people to listen to the lie about tithing or the LAW of laying by in store is a laded burden is legalism and is robbery.

No one would be so uninformed not to know that NOT doing these things is NOT legalism. No one really cares what you do if you have paid the price.
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

August 1st, 2011, 3:41 am #22

William Crump said "Brite never seems to be happy. I wonder why.
First, William, that is a question, therefore should be followed by a question mark.
Second, I have a difficult time seeing that you would ever say that someone else is not happy. Your happiness lies in condemnation of others. That is not happiness from God.
Also, you made the comment of "Since we are forbidden to go above what is written in the New Testament regarding matters of doctrine, and since the New Testament has commanded us to sing and make melody in our hearts, then to ADD a different type of music to the vocal music that has been explicitly commanded is to defy the New Testament."
The problem lies heavily in that 'doctrines' are committed from men and not God. The only permissible doctrine of God is that of the great commission of us telling the world about Jesus, to love God with everything and to love your neighbor as yourself. Now then, aiding sing with instruments of music is not adding a different type of music. They are the same music. That is why the one who accompanies the singing plays the same music as the one who is singing. Bill, you have played the organ for a church before. You should know that.
Finally, Bill, Tom was right on it when he says that you are big on telling others what they think. It is your defense mechanism when you know you are wrong, and you are wrong often. It comes out of a need for self-preservation.

OK. Your "first" point "almost" qualifies you as another English instructor ( ). Let's not go there, however, since we're making it a point that there is the SGP thread reserved for that purpose.

With regard to our "second" point, you disagreed [which is fine] with someone's definition of "is not happy"; but would you expect others to agree with your own: "Your happiness lies in condemnation of others"?

Although I disagree with your other comments, it is a good start for everyone to discuss civilly.
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Dr. Bill Crump
Dr. Bill Crump

August 1st, 2011, 3:52 am #23

Brother Crump,

First, you have completely misapplied Brother Brite's logic in your first reply (as he has already briefly stated) to say he believes that everyone is o.k. and that interpreting Scripture does not matter. Furthermore, you have also projected a conversation that need not be when you start throwing Brother Dave into the mix on Brother Brite for no reason. You owe both Brother's an apology. Brother Brite is to be commended for being a mature spiritual man and not retaliating with the same juvenile behavior. This petty and childish behavior needs to stop.

Second, it would be polite and respectful to say Tom, Mr. Brite, Brother Brite, etc. instead of Brite...Brite...Brite. The tone is rude, condescending and arrogant. It would be like if he just said Crump this and Crump that intead of Bill, Mr. Crump, Dr. Crump, Brother Crump, etc.

Third, I am surprised, yet glad, to hear your tone is not one of condemnation toward those who use instruments in worship. Furthermore, thank you for correcting me in mistating your position/perspective. I did not intend to do such and will not in the future.

Fourth, your reasoning about better safe than sorry could be (and has been) used for the one cup topic and many other issues. Under this logic, better to use one cup and be safe than multiple ones and be sorry. Better to not eat in the building. Better to not ever say God's name. Better to not risk getting married. Better to not eat with sinners.

In fact, the Jewish rabbis taught under this conservative reasoning the following in the Talmud regarding the Sabbath and not working:
They couldn't wear dentures because it was a burden.
They couldn't look in a mirror for fear they might pluck a gray hair and the law forbids plucking.
Scribes could not write as lifting the pen was a burden.
Chicken eggs were thrown out because the chicken was working.

Basically, they made the Sabbath into something to dread.

In the first Century, Jesus has plenty to say to the Pharisees about their legalism and binding interpretations where God in His Word has not declared such as binding.

This is something for all Christians in all traditions to think about.

-Sonny
Sonny wrote: "t would be polite and respectful to say Tom, Mr. Brite, Brother Brite, etc. instead of Brite...Brite...Brite. The tone is rude, condescending and arrogant."

Sonny, I do hope you know that respect is a two-way street. I initially addressed Brite as "Tom," yet knowing that I have a doctoral degree, Brite continues to address me as "Mr. Crump," which is insulting, and he knows it. Therefore, since he shows no respect for me, it is only fitting that we be on "equal" ground. Should Brite ever decide to address me as either "Bill" or "Dr. Crump" or even "Brother Crump," I will be glad to address him as either "Tom" or "Mr. Brite" or even "Brother Brite." And should Brite prove to have a J.D. or other type of doctoral degree, I would also be glad to address him as "Dr. Brite," IF he reciprocated in kind.

Now I'll tell you a true story. On my first day of college, I was looking for a certain classroom and asked directions from a man in the hall. My class schedule simply said the instructor was "Johnston." When I asked the man, "Are You Mr. Johnston?" he immediately but politely said, "DR. Johnston" and slightly emphasized "Dr." as his way of introduction. I apologized and Dr. Johnston forgave my blunder, because I was new. Had I continued to address him as "Mr. Johnston," it would have been most insulting.

Now if Brite really wants to perpetuate ill will, then he will continue with the "Mr. Crump" bit.
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Dr. Bill Crump
Dr. Bill Crump

August 1st, 2011, 4:03 am #24

OK. Your "first" point "almost" qualifies you as another English instructor ( ). Let's not go there, however, since we're making it a point that there is the SGP thread reserved for that purpose.

With regard to our "second" point, you disagreed [which is fine] with someone's definition of "is not happy"; but would you expect others to agree with your own: "Your happiness lies in condemnation of others"?

Although I disagree with your other comments, it is a good start for everyone to discuss civilly.
Just for the record since Dave brought it up, "I wonder why" is a declarative sentence, not an interrogative sentence. It requires a period, not a question mark.

Here's an interrogative sentence: "Why is Dave so angry all the time?"
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Sonny
Sonny

August 1st, 2011, 6:15 pm #25

Sonny wrote: "t would be polite and respectful to say Tom, Mr. Brite, Brother Brite, etc. instead of Brite...Brite...Brite. The tone is rude, condescending and arrogant."

Sonny, I do hope you know that respect is a two-way street. I initially addressed Brite as "Tom," yet knowing that I have a doctoral degree, Brite continues to address me as "Mr. Crump," which is insulting, and he knows it. Therefore, since he shows no respect for me, it is only fitting that we be on "equal" ground. Should Brite ever decide to address me as either "Bill" or "Dr. Crump" or even "Brother Crump," I will be glad to address him as either "Tom" or "Mr. Brite" or even "Brother Brite." And should Brite prove to have a J.D. or other type of doctoral degree, I would also be glad to address him as "Dr. Brite," IF he reciprocated in kind.

Now I'll tell you a true story. On my first day of college, I was looking for a certain classroom and asked directions from a man in the hall. My class schedule simply said the instructor was "Johnston." When I asked the man, "Are You Mr. Johnston?" he immediately but politely said, "DR. Johnston" and slightly emphasized "Dr." as his way of introduction. I apologized and Dr. Johnston forgave my blunder, because I was new. Had I continued to address him as "Mr. Johnston," it would have been most insulting.

Now if Brite really wants to perpetuate ill will, then he will continue with the "Mr. Crump" bit.
Brother Crump,

Your disposition is not according to the teaching and example of Jesus. Since you know this and transgress wilfully, you do not need to be gently "corrected" but "rebuked." Reread Matthew 7:12/Luke 6:31. You are saying you are going to do what someone else does when you find it wrong. A spiritually mature, Christ-like man would overcome "a perceived evil" with good (Romans 12:21).

Your disposition and actions discredit your beliefs and statements as an ambassador for this site. I think Brother Cruz knows this. You and Brother Waddey are ruining his site and his cause. Of all the Christian teachers and leaders who could advocate for unity in Christ without the use of instrumental worship, the character and sin of you two men makes the legalistic message even less convincing.

-Sonny
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Tom Brite
Tom Brite

August 1st, 2011, 8:19 pm #26

Sonny wrote: "t would be polite and respectful to say Tom, Mr. Brite, Brother Brite, etc. instead of Brite...Brite...Brite. The tone is rude, condescending and arrogant."

Sonny, I do hope you know that respect is a two-way street. I initially addressed Brite as "Tom," yet knowing that I have a doctoral degree, Brite continues to address me as "Mr. Crump," which is insulting, and he knows it. Therefore, since he shows no respect for me, it is only fitting that we be on "equal" ground. Should Brite ever decide to address me as either "Bill" or "Dr. Crump" or even "Brother Crump," I will be glad to address him as either "Tom" or "Mr. Brite" or even "Brother Brite." And should Brite prove to have a J.D. or other type of doctoral degree, I would also be glad to address him as "Dr. Brite," IF he reciprocated in kind.

Now I'll tell you a true story. On my first day of college, I was looking for a certain classroom and asked directions from a man in the hall. My class schedule simply said the instructor was "Johnston." When I asked the man, "Are You Mr. Johnston?" he immediately but politely said, "DR. Johnston" and slightly emphasized "Dr." as his way of introduction. I apologized and Dr. Johnston forgave my blunder, because I was new. Had I continued to address him as "Mr. Johnston," it would have been most insulting.

Now if Brite really wants to perpetuate ill will, then he will continue with the "Mr. Crump" bit.
Gee Bill, didn't know you were so touchy, but I'm not surprised. It fits in perfectly with your issues. In 25 years, I have never asked anyone to call me Doctor, even though I have a JD. Neither has my wife who has an MD degree with a specialty in nephrology. My mind is perplexed by someone who values a degree so highly in a social setting. I believe it speaks volumes about a person. Be that as it may, I guess I must bow to your inferiority complex.
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Dr. Bill Crump
Dr. Bill Crump

August 1st, 2011, 11:00 pm #27

Gee, TOM, thanks for being reasonably civil and addressing me as Bill. Even though I enter my post name on this site as "Dr. Bill Crump," I've never actually demanded that people call me Doctor. Even though we don't agree, most of those who have responded to me here have called me either Bill, William, Dr. Crump, or Brother Crump of their own free will, and that's good. Then you came along with "Mr. Crump." I think you know you did that deliberately to be insulting, because we do not agree on theological issues. Perhaps you allow your clients to call you "Mr. Brite" if they don't know you have a J.D., but how many people who DO know would still call you "Mr. Brite" instead of "Tom" or "Dr. Brite"? I daresay none, unless they wanted to mock or insult you. You say your wife is an M.D. That's good. She may not demand that people address her as "Doctor," but I'd wager no one who knows that she is a physician would still address her as Ms. or Mrs. unless they meant to be insulting. If they don't call her Doctor out of respect for her as a person, they do so out of respect for her training. In close circles, surely people address her by her first name.

So, Tom, on a board like this, if a poster identifies himself by a professional title, what is that to you or anyone else? Do you despise calling someone Doctor of your own free will? It's one thing to be high-handed from the outset and demand to be called Doctor, which I have not done; it was a completely different issue when you chose to be uncivil by bypassing "Bill, Dr. Crump, Brother Crump," and went directly to "Mr. Crump."

So let's be civil. If calling me Doctor or Brother Crump makes you choke, then kindly stick with "Bill" as you did above and ditch that "Mr. Crump" foolishness for good. You're much too educated to resort to juvenile tactics like that anyway. I'll call you Tom. But if you prefer Dr. Brite, then you can call me Dr. Crump. Remember, we must be on equal ground!

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Fred Whaley
Fred Whaley

August 2nd, 2011, 1:44 pm #28

Fred is not the only one who knows and is unafraid to mention that the doctor is a vewy vewy insecure and an easily irritated fella.
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Dave
Dave

August 8th, 2011, 1:46 pm #29

Which one are you?

Taken from Wikipeidia.....
Three quarters of the congregations and 87% of the membership are described by the *The Encyclopedia of the Stone-Campbell Movement* as "mainstream", sharing a consensus on practice and theology. The remaining congregations may be grouped into four categories, the largest of which is the churches of Christ (non-institutional). Approximately 2,055 congregations fall in this category. The second group does not use separate Bible classes, and consists of approximately 1,100 congregations. A third group does not use multiple communion cups (approximately 550 congregations; this category overlaps somewhat with those congregations that do not use separate Bible classes for children). The fourth group "emphasize mutual edification by various leaders in the churches and oppose one person doing most of the preaching". This group includes roughly 130 congregations. These groups generally differ from the mainstream consensus in specific practices, rather than in theological perspectives, and tend to have smaller congregations on average.
Well, for sure, William, you want have to worry about me calling you "Mr. Crump."
You can dress him up and take him to town, but a man is who is he, and is known by and because of his heart and attitude.
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Dr. Bill Crump
Dr. Bill Crump

August 8th, 2011, 6:53 pm #30

Dave wrote: "Well, for sure, William, you [won't] have to worry about [my] calling you 'Mr. Crump.'"

Yes, Dave, we know that you despise calling those who disagree with you by their rightful title. But that's OK. As I told Tom, I've never demanded that anyone call me Doctor on this board. How I elect to identify myself is of no concern to you, Tom, or anyone else for that matter. Most people have addressed me either as Bill, William, Dr. Crump, or Brother Crump of their own free will. People choose to be insulting when they deliberately bypass all those polite forms of address and call me "Mr. Crump." Since you enjoy insulting those who disagree with you, Dave, I'm delighted you haven't resorted to "Mr. Crump." You may be more mature (but not by much) than I had initially thought.
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