Holy Spirit: Wayne Jackson

Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

August 1st, 2010, 4:12 am #1

Question: If we are saved and have a relationship with God then we are connected with God through His Spirit. Think, if you can blaspheme God and Christ and be forgiven but you cannot blaspheme the Holy Spirit and be forgiven, then the Spirit of God has to be a Person

That's not exactly what Jesus said.

Mark 3:22 And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said,
......He hath Beelzebub, and
......by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils.


They say that the spirit IN Jesus was the Devil.

Mark 3:28 Verily I say unto you,
......All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men,
......and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:
Mark 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost
......hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:


Now look closely: Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit was saying that the Spirit in Jesus was an UNCLEAN spirit.

Mark 3:30 Because they said, HE hath an UNclean spirit.

Instead, the Spirit that Jesus had was A HOLY Spirit perfectly clean.

Now, look at the supporting evidence.

James 2:1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.

James 2:7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?


The Spirit OF Christ is the Advocate or Comforter.

1John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.
......And if any man sin,
......we have an advocate (Comforter) with the Father,
......Jesus Christ the righteous:

So, what about saying that THE Spirit which was IN Jesus Christ as a clean or HOLY Spirit was NOT His at all? Can people believe that the spirit that Jesus HATH was a HE and another person standing outside of Jesus? That leaves Jesus without His own Spirit or Mind as Paul draws the parallel in 1 Corinthians 2.
Last edited by Ken.Sublett on March 2nd, 2015, 5:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Dave
Dave

August 3rd, 2010, 1:52 pm #2

You weren't really expecting to get a response, were you?
Certainly hope not.....
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Concerned
Concerned

August 3rd, 2010, 2:38 pm #3

Dave,

Does "no response" mean "don't know" or "not sure"?

Do you remember the thread "Nice Song" and the discussion about the very popular hymn "Holy, Holy, Holy"? It has been brought to our attention that in various hymnbooks used in churches of Christ, the line "God in three Persons, blessed Trinity" [1826 version] does not exist. Instead, it says "God over all, and blest eternally."

Check it out, Dave.
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Dr. Bill Crump
Dr. Bill Crump

August 3rd, 2010, 2:46 pm #4

You weren't really expecting to get a response, were you?
Certainly hope not.....
Instead of hanging around this site persistently ragging and berating Ken, Dave could make better use of his time if he volunteered at a soup kitchen. And if he already volunteers at such an establishment, he isn't spending enough time there.
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Dave
Dave

August 3rd, 2010, 8:33 pm #5

Bad day, William?
Bad week?
Bad life?

There is an answer for all your problems.
Give it all to God and His Son.
He takes away the mean spirit.
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Concerned
Concerned

August 3rd, 2010, 10:09 pm #6

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Dave,

Sometimes some good comes out of your thinking.

For example, you just mentioned the "mean spirit" OF man. That expression is very useful -- "the spirit OF man" versus "the spirit OF Christ."

Now if we append to either expression or precede it with an adjective, e.g., "beautiful" or "mean" or "holy" or "unholy" (and in our case, use the adjective "holy" or "unholy"), we can actually start a worthwhile discussion by comparing:

[/color]
"the unholy spirit of man" VERSUS "the holy spirit of Christ"
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Is the "spirit" of man a separate PERSON from man?

Is the "spirit" of Christ or God a separate PERSON?

That comparison would make a good start of a discussion. And that's just dealing with the "adjective." Wait when we deal with the "preposition." The preposition "OF" as in "the holy spirit OF Jesus Christ" (Rom. 8:9; I Peter 1:11; Philippians 1:19).[/color]
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Dave
Dave

August 4th, 2010, 1:29 pm #7

Donnie,
When someone like you wants to complicate God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit, I always apply the following Scriptures.....
Ecclesiastes 12
13 Now all has been heard;
here is the conclusion of the matter:
Fear God and keep his commandments,
for this is the whole duty of man.

14 For God will bring every deed into judgment,
including every hidden thing,
whether it is good or evil.

Now Donnie......see how simple it is?
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

August 4th, 2010, 1:40 pm #8

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Dave,

Sometimes some good comes out of your thinking.

For example, you just mentioned the "mean spirit" OF man. That expression is very useful -- "the spirit OF man" versus "the spirit OF Christ."

Now if we append to either expression or precede it with an adjective, e.g., "beautiful" or "mean" or "holy" or "unholy" (and in our case, use the adjective "holy" or "unholy"), we can actually start a worthwhile discussion by comparing:

[/color]
"the unholy spirit of man" VERSUS "the holy spirit of Christ"
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Is the "spirit" of man a separate PERSON from man?

Is the "spirit" of Christ or God a separate PERSON?

That comparison would make a good start of a discussion. And that's just dealing with the "adjective." Wait when we deal with the "preposition." The preposition "OF" as in "the holy spirit OF Jesus Christ" (Rom. 8:9; I Peter 1:11; Philippians 1:19).[/color]
Alexander Campbell and others understand that A holy spirit is OUR unholy spirit which has been cleansed by the blood of Jesus Christ and not His "spirit."

http://www.piney.com/Alexander.Campbell ... pirit.html

This is...understood by every attentive reader. The original phrase is hagiasmos pneumatos, and is found only in II. Thess. ii. 13; I. Pet. i. 2. In both places it appears to refer to the sanctification of the spirit of believers. It is literally rendered "sanctification [or holiness] of spirit." There is no article in the original and no epithet that suggests the Holy Spirit in either passage.

....God has chosen men to salvation through (or by) holiness of spirit;
........not through the holiness of his Spirit,
........but through the holiness of their spirit.

.... When Jesus prayed (John xvii.) for the sanctification or holiness of his disciples,
........it was through the truth: "Sanctify them through the truth;
........thy word is truth."
.... The belief of the truth is, therefore, by Paul associated with this holiness or sanctification of spirit.

The Spirit of God is frequently denominated in these days, "the Sanctifier." Let it be granted that it is the Spirit that sanctifies or sets apart men to God, still it must be argued from the Record that he sanctifies them only through the truth or gospel believed.

.... A sanctified unbeliever is inconceivable;
....and, as "without holiness [or sanctification of spirit] no man can see the Lord;
.... so, without faith, there can be no holiness, and no action acceptable to God.

All persons sanctified to God to any high office or function, were anointed, and thus consecrated to his special service. So all Christians, being priests,
....are anointed or sanctified by the Holy Spirit
....[135] through the obedience of the truth,
....and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus,
....cleansing THEIR consciences from dead works to serve the living God.
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Dr. Bill Crump
Dr. Bill Crump

August 4th, 2010, 4:38 pm #9

Bad day, William?
Bad week?
Bad life?

There is an answer for all your problems.
Give it all to God and His Son.
He takes away the mean spirit.
Oh, I'd say that Dave must be having troubles if all he can do is hang around this site ragging and berating Ken. Yes, Dave should give his troubles over to God. In so doing, Dave could eventually lose his mean-spiritedness and discover more worthwhile pursuits in his life.
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Donnie
Donnie

August 4th, 2010, 5:15 pm #10

Question: If we are saved and have a relationship with God then we are connected with God through His Spirit. Think, if you can blaspheme God and Christ and be forgiven but you cannot blaspheme the Holy Spirit and be forgiven, then the Spirit of God has to be a Person

That's not exactly what Jesus said.

Mark 3:22 And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said,
......He hath Beelzebub, and
......by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils.


They say that the spirit IN Jesus was the Devil.

Mark 3:28 Verily I say unto you,
......All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men,
......and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:
Mark 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost
......hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:


Now look closely: Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit was saying that the Spirit in Jesus was an UNCLEAN spirit.

Mark 3:30 Because they said, HE hath an UNclean spirit.

Instead, the Spirit that Jesus had was A HOLY Spirit perfectly clean.

Now, look at the supporting evidence.

James 2:1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.

James 2:7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?


The Spirit OF Christ is the Advocate or Comforter.

1John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.
......And if any man sin,
......we have an advocate (Comforter) with the Father,
......Jesus Christ the righteous:

So, what about saying that THE Spirit which was IN Jesus Christ as a clean or HOLY Spirit was NOT His at all? Can people believe that the spirit that Jesus HATH was a HE and another person standing outside of Jesus? That leaves Jesus without His own Spirit or Mind as Paul draws the parallel in 1 Corinthians 2.
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Dave,

God's nature is complicated enough. But when you suggest that "spirit" means "person," you further complicate the nature of God. A "spirit" is never a person.

The spirit OF the Father (Matt. 10:20) or the spirit OF Jesus Christ (Philippians 1:19) is NOT a person.

There is not a PERSONal relationship between "the spirit of the Father" and "the Father." That is impossible.

There is not a PERSONal relationship between "the spirit of Jesus Christ" and "Jesus Christ." That is impossible.

All throughout John chapters 14-15 and other supporting passages, communication is evident only between the Father and Jesus Christ. Just note a couple of declaratives which support such a relationship: (1) "I and my Father are one" [John 10:30]; (2) "He that hateth me hateth my Father also" [John 15:23].

If you consider "the spirit" as a PERSON every time there is reference to it in the Holy Scripture, you will end up with a psychiatric evaluation of God as being schizophrenic:

-- the spirit OF God
-- the spirit OF the Lord
-- the spirit OF the Father
-- the spirit OF truth
-- the spirit OF Christ
-- the spirit OF Jesus Christ
-- the spirit OF our God
-- the spirit OF His Son (Gal. 4:6)
-- spirit OF the living God (II Cor. 3:3)[/color]
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