Hohenwald Church of Christ, birds of a feather! Jay Guin Links

Hohenwald Church of Christ, birds of a feather! Jay Guin Links

K. Sublett
K. Sublett

October 7th, 2003, 10:23 pm #1

Jay Guin Partial reviews.

http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Reviews.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.The.Promi ... pirit.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.What.is.A ... skins.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Instrumen ... ament.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.New.Wines ... sions.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Church.of ... .Born.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.1.Corinthians.10.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.The.Fork.in.The.Road.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Dancing.in.Worship.html
http://www.piney.com/New.Wineskins.Inst ... .Guin.html





Tainted by the Promise Keeper's cult, the Purpose Driven Cult, the Spiritist cult of Max Lucado, the Jubilee Cult of Rubel Shelly and any scam with "promises," the Hohenwald church has done a great leap forward from almost 350 as an average to probably less than 200 now with daily defections.

Major symptom is an ACU product which promotes FEMINIST HERMENEUTICS.

The ACU Agenda: Train PROPHETIC ROLES, CHANELLERS and FACILITATORS the method of subverting the 'hierarchial" views of JESUS and Paul. the end-time subversion is the beginninng-time version which is "FEMINIST hermeneutics stands over against patriarchal hermeneutics" its goal achieved "by small, often unnoticed acts of SUBVERSION. Numerous such incremental changes, like EROSION, will eventually bring down the FORTRESS " ( WOMEN IN THE CHURCH: Reclaiming the Ideal p. 32).

The symptoms from the Masculine Journey is the Feminists and effeminate turn away from the WORD including BAPTISM and the turn to singing silly, erotic praise songs, which in history was for little JEHOVAH to sing up praises to Sophia and mother ZOE to elevate himself up to the seventh, yet inferior, heaven.

It is following the same Madison plan where you get into a charismatic spasm and can't quit shooting yourself in the foot. The people were not fooled but have lived in a decade of gut-grinding sowing of discord.

At the root is Biblical illiteracy.

K. Sublett
Last edited by Ken.Sublett on October 8th, 2014, 4:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Quote
Share

Harold Sublett
Harold Sublett

October 8th, 2003, 1:50 am #2

A letter is posted by a member of Hohenwald Church of Christ. This will list his History and Photography as well as his e-mail. Quoting Harold, ex FHU

"This letter is in response to a very nice letter received from a concerned elder of the Hohenwald Church of Christ where we have attended for some time. A copy is being mailed to each elder, deacon and preachers. Please consider its contents because it is from the heart of a Christian who cares and is concerned about the future of this congregation" I have posted his letter here

http://www.piney.com/Hohenwald.Letter.html
Last edited by ConcernedMembers on October 8th, 2003, 1:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Quote
Share

Kenneth Sublett
Kenneth Sublett

October 10th, 2003, 1:58 am #3

Jay Guin Partial reviews.

http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Reviews.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.The.Promi ... pirit.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.What.is.A ... skins.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Instrumen ... ament.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.New.Wines ... sions.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Church.of ... .Born.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.1.Corinthians.10.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.The.Fork.in.The.Road.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Dancing.in.Worship.html
http://www.piney.com/New.Wineskins.Inst ... .Guin.html





Tainted by the Promise Keeper's cult, the Purpose Driven Cult, the Spiritist cult of Max Lucado, the Jubilee Cult of Rubel Shelly and any scam with "promises," the Hohenwald church has done a great leap forward from almost 350 as an average to probably less than 200 now with daily defections.

Major symptom is an ACU product which promotes FEMINIST HERMENEUTICS.

The ACU Agenda: Train PROPHETIC ROLES, CHANELLERS and FACILITATORS the method of subverting the 'hierarchial" views of JESUS and Paul. the end-time subversion is the beginninng-time version which is "FEMINIST hermeneutics stands over against patriarchal hermeneutics" its goal achieved "by small, often unnoticed acts of SUBVERSION. Numerous such incremental changes, like EROSION, will eventually bring down the FORTRESS " ( WOMEN IN THE CHURCH: Reclaiming the Ideal p. 32).

The symptoms from the Masculine Journey is the Feminists and effeminate turn away from the WORD including BAPTISM and the turn to singing silly, erotic praise songs, which in history was for little JEHOVAH to sing up praises to Sophia and mother ZOE to elevate himself up to the seventh, yet inferior, heaven.

It is following the same Madison plan where you get into a charismatic spasm and can't quit shooting yourself in the foot. The people were not fooled but have lived in a decade of gut-grinding sowing of discord.

At the root is Biblical illiteracy.

K. Sublett
Perhaps following MAX LUCADO and DENNIS DOWNING in Heartlight, Rubel Shelly seems to have his IRREDUCIBLE 7 facts "about Jesus" to now JUST JESUS. I believe that JUST- JESUS has to be ANTI- CHRIST. A Hohenwald elder when asked about baptism being required responded: "That is debatable." Bare bones ethics, according to Spurgeon, one who rejected the necessity of baptism but still served that congregation goes "beyond the pale" and has no sense of basic morality.

Rubel Shelly does the ditto head and writes, but not from the Bible.

"Or, as we sometimes put it: Jesus-plus-anything equals nothing, and Jesus-plus-nothing equals everything.
...But it is so tempting to tack onto the gospel my special take on the Lord's Supper or the millennium, how BAPTISM must be understood or the second coming conceived, how the church must worship or the only acceptable way for it to minister to widows and orphans.
......On and on the Jesus-plus-options can go. And each progression is a movement away from the original Christian message."

Consistent with the Purpose Driven Cult's Pagan baptism, this can have no other meaning than MUSIC'S universal product of Lucifer, the harp-playing prostitute of Tyre, but to SHUT THE MOUTH of the DOCTRINE which Jesus INCLUDED as an essential ingredient of the GOSPEL or good news. The goal of Lucifer (the male/female whore) was to use music to STEAL WORSHIP from the TRUE LOGOS (not the Shelly Pagan Logos).

The predestinated plan was to save people. Faith is ALWAYS ACTIVE. Righteousness has always been by OBEDIENCE of what one believes:

Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Galatians 3:6

> And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; Gen 26:4
> > Because that Abraham
obeyed my voice, and
kept my charge,
my commandments,
my statutes,
and my laws. Gen 26:5

And this was Zacharias prophecy:

"And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying, Luke 1: 67
..Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people, Luke 1: 68
..And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David; Luke 1: 69
..As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began: Luke 1: 70

Who filled the Prophets? "Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. 1 Pet 1:11

Zacharias prophesied that the only way Jesus Christ purposed to GIVE KNOWLEDGE was to REMIT SINS. This would give the disciples A holy spirit or A clear conscience. The ONLY place this occurs is at the COMMANDED time and place of water baptism.

"That we should be (1) saved from our enemies, and (2) from the hand of all that hate us (Satan); Luke 1: 71
..(3) To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and (4) to remember his holy covenant; Luke 1: 72
..The oath which he sware to our father Abraham, Luke 1: 73
....(4) To give knowledge of salvation unto his people
....(5) by the remission of their sins, Lu.1:77

Satan does not want you to RECEIVE any of these. So, he says with a cunning voice: baptism isn't important. If YOUR friends preach baptism they may be FALSE PROPHETS. Better come to me and I will give you rest from your burdens by PLANNING YOUR LIFE and asking you to TITHE or obey the legalistic LAW OF GIVING which fraud would shut down and shut up those SEEING GODLINESS AS A MEANS OF FINANCIAL GAIN--OCCUPATION.

So, Ask: How did Jesus instruct us about how to be SAVED? How did Peter and Paul and all of church history until Zwingli in 1615 understand this. How did Luther the "father" of Sola Fide understand it?

Those who minimize water baptism have ZWINGLI for their savior and we will show that so-called Believer's Baptism was and is identical to PAGAN BAPTISM.

God in Christ wants people not to become THIEVES by accepting the wealth and home of a godly, crippled widow's HOUSE, or other BAIT AND SWITCH on honest people. The Purpose Driven Cult proposes to INFILTRATE and DIVERT in order to STEAL THE CHURCH HOUSES of widow.

No once can be a Christian and propose to use MANIPULATION methods to silence the Word and replace it with effeminate and effeminizing, silly, erotic "praise songs." Praise Singing is one of the most ancient forms of LEGALISM trying to keep the gods from failing. Those pushing the "idolatry of talent" are propelled by the Vineyard which wants to produce a "sexual-like climactic" experience just before the FINAL act or worship: extortion of means.

Ken Sublett
Quote
Share

Kenneth Sublett
Kenneth Sublett

October 10th, 2003, 10:09 pm #4

Jay Guin Partial reviews.

http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Reviews.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.The.Promi ... pirit.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.What.is.A ... skins.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Instrumen ... ament.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.New.Wines ... sions.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Church.of ... .Born.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.1.Corinthians.10.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.The.Fork.in.The.Road.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Dancing.in.Worship.html
http://www.piney.com/New.Wineskins.Inst ... .Guin.html





Tainted by the Promise Keeper's cult, the Purpose Driven Cult, the Spiritist cult of Max Lucado, the Jubilee Cult of Rubel Shelly and any scam with "promises," the Hohenwald church has done a great leap forward from almost 350 as an average to probably less than 200 now with daily defections.

Major symptom is an ACU product which promotes FEMINIST HERMENEUTICS.

The ACU Agenda: Train PROPHETIC ROLES, CHANELLERS and FACILITATORS the method of subverting the 'hierarchial" views of JESUS and Paul. the end-time subversion is the beginninng-time version which is "FEMINIST hermeneutics stands over against patriarchal hermeneutics" its goal achieved "by small, often unnoticed acts of SUBVERSION. Numerous such incremental changes, like EROSION, will eventually bring down the FORTRESS " ( WOMEN IN THE CHURCH: Reclaiming the Ideal p. 32).

The symptoms from the Masculine Journey is the Feminists and effeminate turn away from the WORD including BAPTISM and the turn to singing silly, erotic praise songs, which in history was for little JEHOVAH to sing up praises to Sophia and mother ZOE to elevate himself up to the seventh, yet inferior, heaven.

It is following the same Madison plan where you get into a charismatic spasm and can't quit shooting yourself in the foot. The people were not fooled but have lived in a decade of gut-grinding sowing of discord.

At the root is Biblical illiteracy.

K. Sublett
We noted that Zacharias prophesied:

The oath which he sware to our father ABRAHAM, Luke 1: 73
..(4) To give KNOWLEDGE of SALVATION unto his people
..(5) BY the remission of their sins, Lu.1:77

The SEVEN SPIRITS of Christ all relate to Divine Knowledge. Only at Baptism are we said to be saved. The FAITH ONLY passages prove that the Christian continues to walk and live BY FAITH. However, faith only does not REMIT SINS.

The Law of Moses was added BECAUSE OF TRANSGRESSION. That mortal sin was adding MUSICAL IDOLATRY at Mount Sinai. Prior to that, God reissued the Abrahamic covenant of grace which had no priesthood. After the musical idolatry God MARKED the nation by turning them over to WORSHIP THE STARRY HOST including Chiun whose number was 666.

Therefore, Paul leapfrogs the entire period of the Law and declares that Jesus would fulfill the Abrahamic covenant in a spiritual sense. The only CONNECT with giving knowledge or "A" holy spirit or A clear conscience is in water baptism.

The Bible (mine) clearly connects baptism and remission of sins.

"Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions (musical idolatry at Sinai), till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. Gal 3:19

http://www.piney.com/MuSinai.html

"Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is ONE. Gal 3:20

Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. Gal 3:21

But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. Ga.3:22

And this is how Paul connected the promise made by the Spirit of Christ to baptism for the REMISSION OF SINS. We become CHILDREN of Faith when we are BAPTIZED into Christ:

"FOR" ye are all the children of God by FAITH in Christ Jesus. Gal 3:26

"FOR" as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have PUT ON Christ. Gal 3:27

...And if ye be Christs, then are ye ABRAHAM'S seed, and heirs according to the promise. Ga.3:29

If you repudiate baptism you fulfill the type of the clergy who REFUSED to enter the kingom and PREVENTED those who were trying to get in. The ONLY WAY to get into Christ is to be BAPTIZED into Christ.

NOTHING but baptism as God's OFFER OF FREE GRACE remitts sins and causes one to be CLOTHED with Christ and become spiritual Israelites.

WE WILL SHOW LATER THAT A BELIEVER IS AN OBEDIENT BELIEVER.

In rejecting Baptism you reject the WHOLE COUNSEL of God contained in the Abrahamic justification by Faith WHICH obeys that which FAITH defines.

This is what Paul concluded again:

For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love. Ga.5:6
..For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. Ga.6:15
..Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing
....but the KEEPING of the COMMANDMENTS of God. 1Co.7:19

And again:

And ye are complete IN him, which is the head of all principality and power: Col. 2:10
..In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Col. 2:11

Paul to the Colossians adds anothe dimension: what we PERMIT Christ to do AT baptism is done as the FAITH of Jesus Christ, the Circumcison of Christ, the Death of Christ, te BURIAL of Christ, the Resurrection of Christ and the OPERATION OF GOD who remits sins ONLY at the time of Baptism.

God CUTS OFF our sin only at baptism: without permitting Christ to wash you and circumcize you spiritually you WILL NOT get into His kingdom. This circumcision relates to Abraham and to baptism:

Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. Col. 2:12
..And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he QUICKENED together with him, having FORGIVEN you all TRESPASSES; Col. 2:13

Faith Only is never said to quicken or give life:

Faith Only does not forgive treaspasses. Being QUICKENED means to be REGENERATED. However, it is neither FAITH regeneration or WATER regeneration: it is by our REQUEST when we are baptized in water (1 Pet 3:21)

Suzoopoieo (g4806) sood-zo-op-oy- eh'-o; from 4862 and 2227; to reanimate conjointly with (fig.): - quicken together with.

To despise BAPTISM is to despise the prophesied and fulfulled and believed doctrine until the Baptists got their FAITH ONLY from Zwingli who, in 1525, claimed that HE INVENTED faith only and REPUDIATED Baptism. Martin Luther who invented Sola Fide said that Baptism was necessary for the FORGIVENESS OF SINS.

The LATTER DAY and probably END TIMES heretics repudiate the almost dying command of Jesus Christ because along with Baptism they no longer have any faith in God to protect His Word. The errors are created by those who RIDE the backs of widows and hard working people using the LIE of the TITHE or the LAW OF GIVING. Certainly JUST-JESUS will never abandon unlawful clergy or the collection plate which has not authority.

Minimizing baptism means that one is NOT YET READY to identify with the SUFFERING SERVANT and cannot be Disciples of Christ.
Quote
Share

Kenneth Sublett
Kenneth Sublett

October 11th, 2003, 12:12 am #5

Jay Guin Partial reviews.

http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Reviews.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.The.Promi ... pirit.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.What.is.A ... skins.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Instrumen ... ament.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.New.Wines ... sions.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Church.of ... .Born.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.1.Corinthians.10.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.The.Fork.in.The.Road.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Dancing.in.Worship.html
http://www.piney.com/New.Wineskins.Inst ... .Guin.html





Tainted by the Promise Keeper's cult, the Purpose Driven Cult, the Spiritist cult of Max Lucado, the Jubilee Cult of Rubel Shelly and any scam with "promises," the Hohenwald church has done a great leap forward from almost 350 as an average to probably less than 200 now with daily defections.

Major symptom is an ACU product which promotes FEMINIST HERMENEUTICS.

The ACU Agenda: Train PROPHETIC ROLES, CHANELLERS and FACILITATORS the method of subverting the 'hierarchial" views of JESUS and Paul. the end-time subversion is the beginninng-time version which is "FEMINIST hermeneutics stands over against patriarchal hermeneutics" its goal achieved "by small, often unnoticed acts of SUBVERSION. Numerous such incremental changes, like EROSION, will eventually bring down the FORTRESS " ( WOMEN IN THE CHURCH: Reclaiming the Ideal p. 32).

The symptoms from the Masculine Journey is the Feminists and effeminate turn away from the WORD including BAPTISM and the turn to singing silly, erotic praise songs, which in history was for little JEHOVAH to sing up praises to Sophia and mother ZOE to elevate himself up to the seventh, yet inferior, heaven.

It is following the same Madison plan where you get into a charismatic spasm and can't quit shooting yourself in the foot. The people were not fooled but have lived in a decade of gut-grinding sowing of discord.

At the root is Biblical illiteracy.

K. Sublett
We knew that the Purpose Driven Cult was to suck as much money as possible under FALSE PRETENSES. I can't say that I was not amply warned not to trust the leaders.

The ploy is to get your money and then use it to build a pagan worship center to replace the SCHOOL OF THE BIBLE. It was never possible to get an ACU product who had not imbibed the professors who cannot write a single paragraph without lying abot the Bible and deliberately misquoting scholars who misquoted scholars. Remember that Jesus fired the Doctors of the Law because THEY TAKE AWAY THE KEY TO KNOWLEDGE.

I have looked for some word powerful enough to communicate God's "sick at the stomach" feeling as He pukes out "those who speak of their own" who Scripture classes as another SPECIES condemned from the beginning and who sin by SEDUCING people away from God's Word with MUSIC and SEXUAL PERVERSION. The Bible and other literature knows of no exception to the rule that SINGERS were prositutes and instrumentalist were sodomites. That is why in the entire BIBLE the singers and musicians never entered into the Holy Place as a carnal type of the body or church of Christ.

(Yes, the teams are USED to seduce tithers). I'm getting spooky but I just accidentally found a sermon by Charles Spurgeon of baptismal regeneration which was baptizing babies.

"I am told that many in the Church of England preach against her own teaching. I know they do, and herein I rejoice in their enlightenment, but I question, gravely question, their morality.

"To take oath that I sincerely assent and consent to a doctrine which I do not believe would to my conscience appear little short of PERJURY, if not absolute, DOWNRIGHT perjury; but those who do so must be judged by their Lord.

"For me to take money for defending what I do not believe--for me to take the money of a church, and then to PREACH AGAINST what are most evidently its doctrines--I say for me to do this (I shall not judge the peculiar views of other men), for me or for any other simple, honest man to do so, would be an ATROCITY so great that, if I had perpetrated the deed, I should consider myself out of the PALE [boundaries] of TRUTHFULNESS, HONESTY, and common MORALITY.

....COURTS HAVE ALSO HELD IT TO BE ILLEGAL.

"Sirs, when I accepted the office of minister of this congregation, I looked to see what were your articles of faith. If I had not believed them I should not have accepted your call; and when I change my opinions, rest assured that, as an HONEST MAN, I shall RESIGN the office; for how could I profess one thing in your declaration of faith, and quite another thing in my own preaching? Would I accept your pay, and then stand up every Sunday and talk against the doctrines of your standards?

"For clergymen to swear or say they give their solemn assent and consent to what they do not believe is one of the GROSSEST pieces of IMMORALITY perpetrated in England, and is most pestilential in its influence since it directly teaches men to LIE whenever it seems necessary to do so in order to get a living or increase their supposed usefulness. It is in fact an open testimony from priestly lips, that at least in ecclesiastical matters, falsehood may express truth, and truth itself is a mere unimportant non-entity.

"I know of nothing more calculated to DEBAUCH the public mind than a lack of straightforwardness in ministers; and when worldly men hear ministers denouncing the very things which their own Prayer Book teaches, they imagine that WORDS HAVE NO meaning among church men; and that vital differences in religion are merely a tweedle-dee and tweedle-dum [totally unimportant things], and that it does not much matter what a man does believe so long as he is charitable towards other people."

Those who repudiate the role of Baptism have only Zwingli and pagan baptism for their authority.

Instrumental music was brought with Lucifer into the garden of Eden to, in Paul's words, WHOLLY SEDUCE Eve (ZOE) and, in all contemporaneous literature, sodomize Adam. That is why HE caused the FALL. And music is involved in NUMEREROUS falls in the Bible.

I suggest that anyone who lies, cheats and intends to STEAL THE CHURCH HOUSE OF WIDOWS to expand personal TRAFFICKING should begin to look for legal help. Preachers involved will have FEW options because the FALSE TEACHERS are fairly well confined to the urban, mega-churches. Not a good future for raising a family with such a terrible CUNNING DECEPTIONS we hear already confessed. Certainly appears to beyond redemption as a Christian who does not lie, cheat and steal, and who follows the DOCTRINES of Christ.

Elders who SEE NOTHING WRONG WITH INSTRUMENTS have been infiltrating and diverting for their own personal power. You simply cannot steal from others without anticipating some very strong reaction.

If there is a CREED IN THE DEED any legal attempt to lie, cheat, steal and go to law to CHANGE the creed under the ANATHEMA of being sectarian cannot maintain the questionable trust of the community. The DENOMINATIONS will just hold you in contempt. The are ALWAYS more principled than tribal churches of Christ and THEY will not repudiate their beliefs. Conforming for acceptability is a FULLY EXPRESSED inferior position and it will not stand.
Quote
Share

Kenneth Sublett
Kenneth Sublett

October 11th, 2003, 1:51 am #6

Jay Guin Partial reviews.

http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Reviews.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.The.Promi ... pirit.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.What.is.A ... skins.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Instrumen ... ament.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.New.Wines ... sions.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Church.of ... .Born.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.1.Corinthians.10.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.The.Fork.in.The.Road.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Dancing.in.Worship.html
http://www.piney.com/New.Wineskins.Inst ... .Guin.html





Tainted by the Promise Keeper's cult, the Purpose Driven Cult, the Spiritist cult of Max Lucado, the Jubilee Cult of Rubel Shelly and any scam with "promises," the Hohenwald church has done a great leap forward from almost 350 as an average to probably less than 200 now with daily defections.

Major symptom is an ACU product which promotes FEMINIST HERMENEUTICS.

The ACU Agenda: Train PROPHETIC ROLES, CHANELLERS and FACILITATORS the method of subverting the 'hierarchial" views of JESUS and Paul. the end-time subversion is the beginninng-time version which is "FEMINIST hermeneutics stands over against patriarchal hermeneutics" its goal achieved "by small, often unnoticed acts of SUBVERSION. Numerous such incremental changes, like EROSION, will eventually bring down the FORTRESS " ( WOMEN IN THE CHURCH: Reclaiming the Ideal p. 32).

The symptoms from the Masculine Journey is the Feminists and effeminate turn away from the WORD including BAPTISM and the turn to singing silly, erotic praise songs, which in history was for little JEHOVAH to sing up praises to Sophia and mother ZOE to elevate himself up to the seventh, yet inferior, heaven.

It is following the same Madison plan where you get into a charismatic spasm and can't quit shooting yourself in the foot. The people were not fooled but have lived in a decade of gut-grinding sowing of discord.

At the root is Biblical illiteracy.

K. Sublett
The ACU Agenda by Carrol D. Osburn: Train PROPHETIC roles, CHANELLERS and FACILITATORS the method of subverting the 'hierarchical" views of Jesus and Paul. the end-time subversion is the beginning-time version which is "Feminist hermeneutics stands over against patriarchal hermeneutics" its goal achieved "by small, often unnoticed acts of SUBVERSION. Numerous such incremental changes, like EROSION, will eventually bring down the FORTRESS " ( WOMEN IN THE CHURCH: Reclaiming the Ideal p. 32).

FEMINIST (effeminate) THEOLOGY worshiping the MOTHER OF THE GOD is embodied in most Musical Worship. Perhaps because a MASCULINE God and Jesus threatens their PHALLIC POWER from Promise Keepers, the WAR is being waged against Jehovah as the FATHER rather than little ignorant jehovah who had to organize MUSICAL WORSHIP TEAMS to worship Sophis (the serpent) and Zoe called "the beast and female instructing principle."

Jesus condemned Pharisees (praying for profit, stealing houses of widows), Scribes (book writers) and HYPOCRITES. The Greek world knows the Hypocrites as rhetoricians (slick willies), sOPHISts (the serpents in the book of Revelation), singers, musicians and craftsmen. They are identified as performing the task of SORCERY which was to PRODUCE a "spiritual" feeling for pay. All IST or similar endings such as fluteIST, psalmODIA, HharpISTS, or guitarISTS in Greek are PARASITES in Latin. Most of the time to say MUSICIAN or SINGER was to say male or female prostitute.

Revelation 18:22 identifies the BEGINNING-TIME Lucifer as causing the fall of the angels and coming into the garden of Eden with wind, string and percussion instruments. He wholly seduced Eve but Adam was NOT deceived but was, in all ancient literature, was sodomized. The Dionysus musicians as FALSE CLERGY in Jerusalem tried to PIPE hoping that Jesus and others would join in the perverted musical team. History knows that the Jews anticipated that Dionysus would be their Messiah. When the musical team and minstrels wanted to do their songs in the presence of the dead girl, Jesus cast them out "more or less violently" as one Ejects Dung. There is a lot of history connecting the dung heap and the FLUTE-GIRLS who were always prostitutes.

And the voice of HARPERS, and MUSICIANS, and of PIPERS, and TRUMPETERS, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no CRAFTSMAN, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee; Re 18:22

The grinders who manned the millstone were concubines or other PROSTITUTES. The very word CHURCH derives from CIRCE the holy whore of John's coded words

You may have noted that Paul said SPEAK (preach) one to another. The purpose was to TEACH and ADMONISH. External melody is excluded because Paul said sing and make melody in the heart. This is because only prostitutes and sodomites performed music in a pagan religious sense. One of the early apostostasies was to SING self-composed songs. The word PSALLO or melody is a CARNAL WARFARE word:

Psallô [psaô]
..I. to touch sharply, to pluck, pull, TWITCH, Aesch.; TOXOU neuran ps.
..to TWANG the bow-string, Eur.; belos ek keraos ps.
....to SEND a shaft TWANGING from the bow, Anth.; so, schoinos miltophurês psallomenê a
....carpenter's red line, which is twitched and then suddenly let go, so as to LEAVE a MARK,

Toxon means that it was made out of two pieces of horn joined together in the middle. This is why Paul calls them LIFELESS INSTRUMENTS which were CARNAL WEAPONS.

Apollo who had a SEEKER CENTER at Delphi was the father of musical harmony, twanging bowstrings to send singing arrows, thieves and liars. Apollo is the Abaddon or Apollyon of the Book of Revelation. He has come to release the LOCUSTS who were MUSES sent into hell. He looses them as a sudden SUPERNATURAL lust to get on board the FALSE MESSIAH's Bandwagon by forming MUSICAL WORSHIP TEAMS.

These are words of the following verse:

"And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having SEVEN heads (team members) and ten horns (points of power), and seven crowns (having WON the game) upon his heads. Revelation 12:3

"And I saw three unclean SPIRITS like FROGS (quacks) come out of the mouth of the dragon (called Sophia in Gnosticism), and out of the mouth of the beast (Called ZOE or Zao in Rev 16:3), and out of the mouth of the false prophet. Revelation 16:13

The BEAST as the NACHASH or musical enchanter in the garden of Eden is really described by a word meaning SIMIAN in nature. The false spirits are like frogs.

"For they are the SPIRITS of DEVILS, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to GATHER them to the BATTLE of that great day of God Almighty. Revelation 16:14

THE WORD: Daimon (g1142) dah'ee-mown; from daio, (to distribute FORTUNES); a doemon or supernatural spirit (of a bad nature): - devil

Donnie has collected a list including "christian" singers, musicians and writers who CONFESS that they made an act to SELL THEIR SOUL to the "god of fortune." No faithful believer can be a popular writer or musician.

Our word GOD is derived from GAD the god of fortunes.

The phrase: Belos ek keraos from Psallo above means:

belos [ballô, as Lat. jaculum from jacio]
..1. a MISSLE, esp. an ARROW, dart, bolt, Hom.; of the rock hurled by the Cyclops, Od.; of the ox's leg thrown at Ulysses, id=Od.; hupek beleôn out of the reach of darts, out of shot, Il.; so exô belôn Xen.
...2. like enchos, used of any WEAPON, as a sword, Ar.: an axe, Eur.

Paul spoke of LIFELESS INSTRUMENTS as well as Carnal Weapons. The word "hoplon" implicates musical instruments in CARNAL warfare. You are not called to CELEBRATE your sense but to engage in warfare against principalities and powers in heavenly places. They will just laugh at your "music" which has no history which is not pagan.

3. the agana belea of APOLLO and Artemis in Homer always denote the SUDDEN, EASY DEATH of men and women respectively.

[Apollo who has come to most churches has a TEAM of fallen angels who introduced music in the first fall. His use of the BOW as symbol of EXTERNAL HARMONY intends to SLAY SPIRITS by destroying the rational or spiritual side of the brain.]

4. after Hom. of anything SWIFT-darting,.. himerou belos the SHAFT of LOVE, id=Aesch.; of arguments, PAN tetoxeutai belos id=Aesch.

The end time PANS have a strong LUST and therefore MUSIC has always been the MARK of the effeminate whose shafts of love meant homosexuality. Sincerity does not matter: when the singy clappy boys come to town the IMAGE is that of a homosexual musician and that is why they FLEE. Their FLIGHT is a MARK of judgment "before their time."

Keras or HORN means means POWER but music has always been Satan's way of gaining power by ascending up above the Word of God:

..2. of MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS, a horn for blowing, Xen.: a flute, Luc.
..3. a drinking-horn, Xen.

keras (horns of the perverted Pan musicians) who LOOK TO THE HILLS

..1. BOW, toxon enôma

..2. of MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS, horn for BLOWING, sêmênai tôi kerati X.An.2.2.4 , cf. Arist.Aud.802a17; also, the Phrygian FLUTE, because it was tipped with horn
.
.6. MOUNTAINPEAK, extremities of the earth

Kero-batês [a^], ou, ho, ( [keras]) HORN-FOOTED, HOOFED, kerobatas PAN Ar.Ra.230 (lyr.): acc. to some Gramm., he that GOES with HORNS, i.e. the HORNED GOD; acc. to Sch., he that WALKS the MOUNTAIN-PEAKS (cf. keras v.6).

MUSIC AS PHALLIC POWER: THE TOP BILLY GOAT AT THE CREST OF THE MOUNTAIN. Unfortunately, most of the ALPHA MALE billy goats or PANS have to MOUNT a small CONQUEST.

You remember the little goat-footed Pan and his Pan pipe. He is often pictured ATTACKING other MALES with his apparatus all aglow. Music in the ancient religions had NO PURPOSE other than to grind someone into a fine powers which is the underlying meaning of MELODY like the SOP Jesus used to MARK Judas.

Read all of Revelation 12 written in symbolic LANGUAGE which could be understood only by recourse to the legends such as CIRCE whom we worship every time we say "church." Jesus built a synagogue and not a pagan worship center.

Music produces endorphins or MORPHIN WITHIN. It creates the effect of FIGHT, FLIGHT and SEXUALITY. When people are willing to CUNNINGLY DECEIVE to aquire more PAN GOAT POWER as Alpha Male, they LUST for music to produce the DRUG HIGH. This is TRAFFICKED as being "spiritual" when any literate Bible student knows that it INTENDS to stroke all of the pleasure center nerve endings. The SENSUOUS PLEASURE SENSATION which is billed in the people Rubel Shelly DITTOES, is called reaching a sexual climax: just before the final ACT which is giving of means.

The plan for minimizing the direct command of Jesus in baptism INTENDS to seduce people to their own plan for SAVING THEM. The music, as the end-time LOCUSTS (muses or musical performers) intends to SEDATE the people until they can be transported to hell from whence their spirits--from old--came.

Let's rehearse: the HORNS of the end time CHANGE AGENTS FROM HELL are not real mountains: they are the little pans trying to be big mountains and their CARNAL WEAPON is MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS.

Anyone who repudiates Baptism can never have read any of the evidence. And the lust to add MUSIC speaks directly to the GENDER bent if the Bible and all of history has any meaning.

Time is short.
Quote
Share

Kenneth Sublett
Kenneth Sublett

October 12th, 2003, 2:53 pm #7

Jay Guin Partial reviews.

http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Reviews.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.The.Promi ... pirit.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.What.is.A ... skins.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Instrumen ... ament.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.New.Wines ... sions.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Church.of ... .Born.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.1.Corinthians.10.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.The.Fork.in.The.Road.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Dancing.in.Worship.html
http://www.piney.com/New.Wineskins.Inst ... .Guin.html





Tainted by the Promise Keeper's cult, the Purpose Driven Cult, the Spiritist cult of Max Lucado, the Jubilee Cult of Rubel Shelly and any scam with "promises," the Hohenwald church has done a great leap forward from almost 350 as an average to probably less than 200 now with daily defections.

Major symptom is an ACU product which promotes FEMINIST HERMENEUTICS.

The ACU Agenda: Train PROPHETIC ROLES, CHANELLERS and FACILITATORS the method of subverting the 'hierarchial" views of JESUS and Paul. the end-time subversion is the beginninng-time version which is "FEMINIST hermeneutics stands over against patriarchal hermeneutics" its goal achieved "by small, often unnoticed acts of SUBVERSION. Numerous such incremental changes, like EROSION, will eventually bring down the FORTRESS " ( WOMEN IN THE CHURCH: Reclaiming the Ideal p. 32).

The symptoms from the Masculine Journey is the Feminists and effeminate turn away from the WORD including BAPTISM and the turn to singing silly, erotic praise songs, which in history was for little JEHOVAH to sing up praises to Sophia and mother ZOE to elevate himself up to the seventh, yet inferior, heaven.

It is following the same Madison plan where you get into a charismatic spasm and can't quit shooting yourself in the foot. The people were not fooled but have lived in a decade of gut-grinding sowing of discord.

At the root is Biblical illiteracy.

K. Sublett
WHAT IS THE GOSPEL?

The gospel is summarized as the Death, Burial and Ressurecton of Christ. However, this is not a CREED but it is a FORM OF DOCTRINE (Romans 6:17). The death, burial and ressurection was accepted by being baptized into Christ so that we are resurrected to a new life (Rom 6:3-4). The FORM means "style or resemblance, a model for imitation." This is all GRACE because our baptism means "INSTEAD OF." That means that we do not have to shed our own blood.

Because no human could be trusted, God sent His ARM as Jesus Christ. However, John would prepare the way by baptizing people in order that their sins be washed away. Malachi prophesied of John's baptism as the gospel:

"BEHOLD, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the WAY before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the Lord of hosts. Malachi 3:1

Human pride does not allow most people to confess wrong and ask for help. Malacih warned that Messiah would baptize with fire. For believers, He makes our "clothing" clean and the fuller's soap attracts and washes away the dirt in our hearts.

But who may abide (comprehend or receive) the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiners fire, and like FULLERS SOAP: Malachi 3:2

A fuller BAPTIZES or washes garments by getting into the LAVER. He is pictured as standing in a trough or tub and dipping the SOILED garment and making it new by stamping on it while under water

"Kabac (h3526) kaw-bas'; a prim. root; to trample; hence to wash (prop. by stamping with the feet), whether lit. (including the fulling process) or figurative - fuller, WASHING.

Only water baptism where we REQUEST a clear conscience fulfills that prophecy.

Bapto means "to WHELM, i.e. cover wholly with a fluid... or to stain as with dye, dip.

When paul summarized the gospel he used the word FIRST:

"For I delivered unto you FIRST of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 1Co.15:3

First, is PROTOS. It means the beginning, the best, the foremost in time.

As fulfillment of Malachi's promise, Mark says that the BEGINNING or CORNER or MOST IMPORTANT meaning of the GOSPEL begins with baptism. The word is ARCHE, the MOST IMPORTANT doctrine of the Gospel which allow us to receive the VALUE or meaning of the facts about Jesus Christ.

"THE beginning of the GOSPEL of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; Mark 1:1

....As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy WAY before thee. Mark 1:2

The WAY means a route, highway or PATTERN so that we can walk in the steps of Jesus.

"The voice (shouting) of one crying in the wilderness (a very lonely place), Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight (immediately). Mark 1:3

The gospel or "good news" was that those who believed and repented could just be baptized.

"John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. Mark 1:4

They were not baptized because their sins had already been remitted.

Many had looked for the SIGN of baptism as the good news or gospel that God was comming to them to remove their sins. This would give them A holy spirit or A clear conscience so that they could give heed to the Words of God. They would finally understand that God spoke to them through His Word.

"And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins. Mark 1:5

Baptism demanded that they repent and confess that they NEEDED to be made pure just like becomming a little child.

Faith gives us the POWER to become children of God but children were not ADOPTED until they were washed and given a new name.

"And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: Luke 24:46

"And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. Luke 24:47

When Christ returned in Spirit form as proven by the supernatural signs to the 12, Peter and the other 11 began preaching the HISTORY of Christ beginning in the Old Testament. Those who believed were not saved. Rather, they asked:

"Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, WHAT SHALL we DO? Acts 2:37

.."Then Peter said unto them, REPENT, and be BAPTIZED every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ FOR the remission of sins, and ye SHALL receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Acts 2:38

Those whose human pride will not allowe them to be baptized want to have FAITH in a corner. This means that THEY are saved without the gift of A holy spirit, without repentance as well a without baptism

Jesus had commanded the Apostles to go out into the world and preach the SAME GOSPEL. Jesus shows that the FIRST response to the preached GOSPEL was BAPTISM. Those who did not belive did not obey and were therefore damned. They had rejected the counsel of God for their lives by REFUSING baptism.

Ken Sublett taking the message into my world.
Quote
Share

scott reinhardt
scott reinhardt

October 16th, 2003, 5:15 pm #8

Jay Guin Partial reviews.

http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Reviews.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.The.Promi ... pirit.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.What.is.A ... skins.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Instrumen ... ament.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.New.Wines ... sions.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Church.of ... .Born.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.1.Corinthians.10.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.The.Fork.in.The.Road.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Dancing.in.Worship.html
http://www.piney.com/New.Wineskins.Inst ... .Guin.html





Tainted by the Promise Keeper's cult, the Purpose Driven Cult, the Spiritist cult of Max Lucado, the Jubilee Cult of Rubel Shelly and any scam with "promises," the Hohenwald church has done a great leap forward from almost 350 as an average to probably less than 200 now with daily defections.

Major symptom is an ACU product which promotes FEMINIST HERMENEUTICS.

The ACU Agenda: Train PROPHETIC ROLES, CHANELLERS and FACILITATORS the method of subverting the 'hierarchial" views of JESUS and Paul. the end-time subversion is the beginninng-time version which is "FEMINIST hermeneutics stands over against patriarchal hermeneutics" its goal achieved "by small, often unnoticed acts of SUBVERSION. Numerous such incremental changes, like EROSION, will eventually bring down the FORTRESS " ( WOMEN IN THE CHURCH: Reclaiming the Ideal p. 32).

The symptoms from the Masculine Journey is the Feminists and effeminate turn away from the WORD including BAPTISM and the turn to singing silly, erotic praise songs, which in history was for little JEHOVAH to sing up praises to Sophia and mother ZOE to elevate himself up to the seventh, yet inferior, heaven.

It is following the same Madison plan where you get into a charismatic spasm and can't quit shooting yourself in the foot. The people were not fooled but have lived in a decade of gut-grinding sowing of discord.

At the root is Biblical illiteracy.

K. Sublett
My prayers are with you...
Quote
Share

Kenneth Sublett
Kenneth Sublett

October 18th, 2003, 1:42 pm #9

Jay Guin Partial reviews.

http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Reviews.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.The.Promi ... pirit.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.What.is.A ... skins.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Instrumen ... ament.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.New.Wines ... sions.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Church.of ... .Born.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.1.Corinthians.10.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.The.Fork.in.The.Road.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Dancing.in.Worship.html
http://www.piney.com/New.Wineskins.Inst ... .Guin.html





Tainted by the Promise Keeper's cult, the Purpose Driven Cult, the Spiritist cult of Max Lucado, the Jubilee Cult of Rubel Shelly and any scam with "promises," the Hohenwald church has done a great leap forward from almost 350 as an average to probably less than 200 now with daily defections.

Major symptom is an ACU product which promotes FEMINIST HERMENEUTICS.

The ACU Agenda: Train PROPHETIC ROLES, CHANELLERS and FACILITATORS the method of subverting the 'hierarchial" views of JESUS and Paul. the end-time subversion is the beginninng-time version which is "FEMINIST hermeneutics stands over against patriarchal hermeneutics" its goal achieved "by small, often unnoticed acts of SUBVERSION. Numerous such incremental changes, like EROSION, will eventually bring down the FORTRESS " ( WOMEN IN THE CHURCH: Reclaiming the Ideal p. 32).

The symptoms from the Masculine Journey is the Feminists and effeminate turn away from the WORD including BAPTISM and the turn to singing silly, erotic praise songs, which in history was for little JEHOVAH to sing up praises to Sophia and mother ZOE to elevate himself up to the seventh, yet inferior, heaven.

It is following the same Madison plan where you get into a charismatic spasm and can't quit shooting yourself in the foot. The people were not fooled but have lived in a decade of gut-grinding sowing of discord.

At the root is Biblical illiteracy.

K. Sublett
Among some I know to question Max Lucado or Rubel Shelly is like slapping their wife.

It is clear that Max Lucado, having imbibed Spiritists voodoo in Brazil and now cross polinating it there as the Family of God and sowing discord, is the ONE to whom many, virtually Bible illiterate people, honor above the Word and the Living Word.

A key operative in Brazil sponsored by MAX (since the STAFF makes the decisions) is Dennis Downing. Dennis knows that he cannot BUY AND SELL without the MARK of MAX moves from a once solid basis to BOWING by proclaiming the new BLASPHEMY of Just Jesus (and Our new REVELATION).

http://www.piney.com/Dennis.Downing.html

One observer of Oak Hills, Max Lucado and the DITTO HEADS repudiating Christ and His word notes: "Hence, one can predict based on Paul's life and model what Christians who emulate Paul will do and will become. Relative to "churches of Christ," there are a number of influences at work. One influence that continues is the influence of liberalism and progression. John warns of becoming progressive when he wrote: "Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God…" (2 Jn. 9). According to some of the better manuscripts, the verb translated transgresseth is proago. W. E. Vine simply comments on proago as follows: "…To lead forth…In 2 John 9…(marg., 'taketh the lead') the R. V. renders it 'goeth onward…of not abiding in the doctrine of Christ" (Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words). Many consider the Oak Hills Church as the model for digression within churches of Christ."

http://www.bibletruths.net/Archives/BTAR268.htm

It fits the PATTERNISM to put a focus on RESCUING FAMILIES AND MARRIAGES, but Paradoxically Predictable, at the same time their Satan-like "wearing out of the saints" actually drives a wedge between faithful husbands and wives. Women of the CHANGE AGENDA have been known to preassure the "MUSIC DRIVEN rejecting of the Bible and turn to effeminate entertainment" wives to divorce their Bible believing husbands.

Women or effeminate males will always be the driving force of a "worship" service which creates FIGHT, FLIGHT and SEXUALITY as the most fulfilling moments of their drab lives. Isaiah warning that "women and children will rule over you" meant WOMEN AND THE EFFEMINATE who CANNOT BEAR to enter into dialog with a MASCULINE God." Karen Armstrong, A History of God

Remember that coming out of ACU is a change agenda like the FEMINIST AGENDA which changes "by little acts of TREASON." The purpose is to REJECT the PATRIARCHAL God who is FATHER AND SON rather than MOTHER AND GOD.

When you turn to performance "music" by the singy-clappy guys or PLANT a musical worship team in the audience to CHARISMATE them into a sexual experience, you are worshiping the MOTHER GODDES (Eve,ZOE, Inanna the Babylon harlot) and all of her daughters who lust to be seen in performance. They are absolutely sure that they LEAD YOU into the presence and therefore TRIUMPH OVER Lord Jesus Christ as the ONE AND ONLY Masculine Mediator. It is prophesied: it is in the book.
Quote
Share

Confused Sacred Cow
Confused Sacred Cow

October 22nd, 2003, 11:33 pm #10

You're confusing me Ken.

You wrote, "You must advise the elders that you will not PAY for the youth minister because that is where most of the division is coming from. They are fueled from men like Max Walling who is advising the youth ministers that they might have to get out of the church of Christ if they cannot make changes."

Who is Max Lucado?

And is he or is he not advising youth ministers to slap their wives?

Or are there elders advising youth ministers to slap their wives?
Quote
Share