Hohenwald Church of Christ, birds of a feather! Jay Guin Links

The Outsider
The Outsider

December 16th, 2003, 9:42 pm #31

Kenenth,.
It apprears that you and your brother have to much time on your hands. It appears to me, the outsider, that you both like to gossip and cause trouble. I hope you are ready to stand on judgement day, because it appears to me that you both are more worried about the other churches in town and not your own souls. Answer one question for me please. Who is going to be the judge? And if you answer Jesus, then let's leave it that way and worry about our own salvation and not others.

The Outsider.
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Kenneth Sublett
Kenneth Sublett

December 17th, 2003, 7:46 pm #32

Jay Guin Partial reviews.

http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Reviews.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.The.Promi ... pirit.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.What.is.A ... skins.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Instrumen ... ament.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.New.Wines ... sions.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Church.of ... .Born.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.1.Corinthians.10.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.The.Fork.in.The.Road.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Dancing.in.Worship.html
http://www.piney.com/New.Wineskins.Inst ... .Guin.html





Tainted by the Promise Keeper's cult, the Purpose Driven Cult, the Spiritist cult of Max Lucado, the Jubilee Cult of Rubel Shelly and any scam with "promises," the Hohenwald church has done a great leap forward from almost 350 as an average to probably less than 200 now with daily defections.

Major symptom is an ACU product which promotes FEMINIST HERMENEUTICS.

The ACU Agenda: Train PROPHETIC ROLES, CHANELLERS and FACILITATORS the method of subverting the 'hierarchial" views of JESUS and Paul. the end-time subversion is the beginninng-time version which is "FEMINIST hermeneutics stands over against patriarchal hermeneutics" its goal achieved "by small, often unnoticed acts of SUBVERSION. Numerous such incremental changes, like EROSION, will eventually bring down the FORTRESS " ( WOMEN IN THE CHURCH: Reclaiming the Ideal p. 32).

The symptoms from the Masculine Journey is the Feminists and effeminate turn away from the WORD including BAPTISM and the turn to singing silly, erotic praise songs, which in history was for little JEHOVAH to sing up praises to Sophia and mother ZOE to elevate himself up to the seventh, yet inferior, heaven.

It is following the same Madison plan where you get into a charismatic spasm and can't quit shooting yourself in the foot. The people were not fooled but have lived in a decade of gut-grinding sowing of discord.

At the root is Biblical illiteracy.

K. Sublett
AN IMPORTANT MESSAGE TO HOHENWALD:

YOU HAVE PASSED JUDGMENT ON LORD JESUS CHRIST AND CALLED HIM A LIAR. YOU HAVE PAST JUDGEMENT ON THE OWNERS OF THE CHURCH WHO BELIEVE WHAT JESUS SAID AND NOT WHAT MAX LUCADO OR YOUR BAPTISTS EMBEDS TEACH. HOW?

Quote of Leadership Hohenwald church of Christ: Instead, we want to UNITE with other Christians as it is in the best interest of this church family...whether they be believers from other churches of Christ or believers from OTHER churches.

To address a few specific concerns from the letter this week...

...Leadership Hohenwald church of Christ: We believe that baptism is essential.
....But, if you want us to say that we save ourselves, or if you want us to say what God cannot do, we will not.
....God saves and God condemns, we do not.

That is a fact: God says that one who is saved by GRACE through FAITH has been baptized and raised with Christ (Ephesians 1). Why CAST DOUBT that God maybe lied? No one asks that elders do anything but "teach the word as it has been taught." The leaders cannot JUDGE that those who disobey God are "CHRISTIANS" and they cannot judgmentally judge those who have believed what the church has always believed--outside of Zwingli's baptism invented in a.d. 1525 and adopted by the Baptists. We don't judge to say that it is as pagan a baptism which demands that Christ must personally die for them as the Catholic eucharist or mass.

JESUS MAKES IT PLAIN IN JOHN 17 THAT UNITY IS BASED ON THE WORD OF GOD. He is not interested in UNION but church means those CALLED OUT OF THE WORLD to become a SCHOOL or SYNAGOGUE to repudiat pagan worship centers where MUSICAL women or effeminate men are peddling SEXUALITY. Paul calls that authority Authentia: both murderous and erotic.

Jesus isn't interested in us JUDGING in one way or the equally opposite way of defacto recognizing everyone saved by faith. Jesus said that YOU will be judged by THE WORD of God. The Living Word and Written Word says that you CANNOT be a disciple without baptism and further teaching. A Disciple is a Christian. Therefore, the WORD Judges that there are no CHRISTIANS who have not been baptized requesting that God give them A holy spirit or A clear conscience. I cannot say that God will LIE and make exceptions. God is God and I am not. Therefore, if He makes exceptions then he has the right. He has not DELEGATED that to human JUDGES.

But, NO, God cannot lie. All we know as Christians is in the Bible. The Bible claims to be the Word of God. God defined the meaning of a CHRISTIAN. Therefore, if you want to accuse God of being a liar then go ahead. But Jesus said that the believeth nots are the baptized nots BECAUSE they are treacherous infidels. Would a LOVING JESUS call you a traitor and an infidel? He just did.

The Bible calls people BELIEVERS or BELIEVING only after they have been baptized into Christ. Max Lucado confesses it.

They teach that just BELIEVING in Jesus Christ makes one a Christian or a child of the God. They would, therefore, tell you that BELIEVING in the Devil makes one a child of the Devil. But, Jesus Who DOES NOT JUDGE says that even calling Lord Lord does not save you.

WHO IS A CHRISTIAN? The Bible clearly identifies a Christian as one who is OF THE TRUTH who hears the voice of God in Christ (John 18:37). We do not have to JUDGE or CONDEMN because Jesus didn't condemn.

...."He that REJECTETH me, and RECEIVETH not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the WORD that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. Jn.12:48

The predestined purpose of God was that both Jews and Gentiles be baptized to become a new SCHOOL of discipleship (Christianity) by being baptized for the remission os sin. Like the Sabbath REST under the Law, God guarded Christians against the usual paganism on the First day of the Week (Sun worship in Rome) by RESTRICTING the assembly to that which edifies or instructs the DISCIPLES who are STUDENTS.

And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, JUSTIFIED God, being baptized with the baptism of John. John 7:29
....But the Pharisees and lawyers REJECTED the counsel of God against themselves, being NOT BAPTIZED of him. John 7:30

If NOT being baptized for the Christ-taught purpose does not cause you to be lost, calling God a liar will get the job done. That is what the ELITE people who commercialized religion did because IT WOULD HURT BUSINESS.

To justify God is to confess that He has told us the truth about baptism. One who "believes not" is defined as treachery and infidelity.

Therefore, it is dangerous JUDGMENTALINS to tell someone that they can become a Christian or disciple just by beliving int Jesus Christ.

Jesus defined the meaning of a DISCIPLE:

It is not possible to preach the GOSPEL without preaching the ONLY means God has provided for us to ACCEPT or JUSTIFY God in baptism. The "believeth nots" are defined by the word Jesus used as TREACHEROUS and INFIDELS.

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Matt 28:18
....Go ye therefore, and teach (MAKE DISCIPLES) all nations,
BY:
....1. BAPTIZING them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Matt 28:19
(AND)
....2. TEACHING them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. Mt.28:20

Believing in Jesus DOES NOT make one a DISCIPLE. A Disciple lets Jesus wash spirit or mind while WE confess Him in baptism. Only DISCIPLES are CHRISTIANS. it is a VERY DANGEROUS and JUDGMENTAL thing to call God a liar and TAKE THE LIBERTY to let people SKIP the direct commands of Jesus, the Apostles and most of church history.

We can understand the meanining of a CHRISTIAN by understandingthe church He promised to build. The Bible uses the Greek word "ekklesia" to define the house or place or the members of the church in a given area or all of those enrolled in heaven

There are several Greek words similar to ekklesia. They are forms of the word the Jews used for their synagogue. There are many words used for gathering in the Old Testament. When the Israelites were called into assembly one word is QAHAL. These meeting which were called so that God could instruct the people through Moses. Loud instruments and "making a joyful noise" noise were forbidden. The reason is simple: God cannot teach us when we are making a noise.

There was never a praise service in the synagogue because it was a school of the Bible. When Paul spoke of the ASSEMBLY or GATHERING TOGETHER in one place he used a form of the synonymous Greek word for SYNAGOGUE:

And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they SUNAGO (synagogued) themselves with the EKKLESIA, (church) and DIDASKO (Teach-Learn) much people.

The Lord's Supper is also a remembering and teaching effort. Showing forth the death means preaching or teaching the death of Christ.

Again, a DISCIPLE is one who has been BAPTISED for the clearing out of the old "man of sin" and asking God for A holy spirit. Peter said that at baptism we REQUEST A clear conscience from God. That also means a clear consiousness. Only by removing sin from our spirit or mind is it possible for God's Spirit to live in us and be our TEACHER.

...And the MATHETES (Disciples Students) were called Christians first in Antioch. Ac.11:26

The words of Jesus and the inspired apostle Paul JUDGE that if one is not a BAPTIZED BELIEVER they CANNOT be a Christian.

A Christian is:

Christianos (g5546) khris-tee-an-os'; from 5547; a Christian, i.e. FOLLOWER (Imitators) of Christ: - Christian.

Jesus commanded the Apostles go GO into all the nations and preach the GOSPEL or New Covenant of Grace. This included all Jews and all Gentiles. The Jews lost the covenant of grace when they ROSE UP TO PLAY in musical idolatry at Mount Sinai. The Gentiles or nations knew right from wrong by nature and were approved by God based on their right living and practicing social justice. Neither could find God without baptism and a process of further DISCIPLING.

Therefore, God concluded ALL under sin (Gal 3:22) so that the Promise made by the Spirit of Christ in the Abrahamic covenant might justified all by faith which God defined as:

..Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws. Gen 26:5

Before FAITH (a system of faith) came the Jews were SHUT UP or HELD PRISONERS until faith be REVEALED. This is THE FAITH or the Christian System which repudiates rituals and is a SCHOOL OF THE BIBLE. John was the prophsied PATH SMOOTHER who, along with the DISCIPLES of Christ, preached REPENTANCE and BAPTISM for (in order to receive) the REMISSION of SINS.

.."And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John. Luke 7:30

Repenting and submitting to baptism meant that the "most wicked" people AGREED that God's requirement was right and they were baptized. Why wouldn't leaders want to be more literate than prostitutes and publicans? Why would they REJECT baptism and classify themselves with the PHARISEES/

.."But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being NOT baptized of him. Luke 7:30

God counseled or pre-determined or pre-destinated that He would accept as disciples (Christians or students) only those who submitted to baptism.

But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. Gal 3:25 [The ROD was the incentive of the oriental schoolmaster]
...FOR ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. Gal 3:26
...FOR as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. Gal 3:27

It is interesting that those who reject the clear teaching of Paul about women's role in the church say, "there is neither male nor female." But, I betcha that they INTERPRETED that differently when they got married. Why is it that the new CHANGE AGENDA is so dedicated to AIDS ministries and homosexuals as guest pulpiters?

.."There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. Gal 3:28

At the same time they tell Paul that he is a liar for saying that you get INTO Christ or into His body or kingdom or church ONLY by being BAPTIZED INTO Christ so that we are now CLOTHED with Christ.

You don't get into the CLOTHING of God by believing in God.

Whatever men who reject the Word of God, a DISCIPLE is a baptized believer. He is continually taught to be a learner of the Word of Christ who is the only Rabbi or master teacher.

This is important because God isn't interested in how well you sing, clap, dance or play instruments: God will simply show you the WORD and you will know that you are lost because you called the Holy God of the universe a LIAR. God MARKS us or SEALS us at Baptism: not by FAITH ONLY.

The word CAIN means a MUSICAL NOTE: the Word proves that the LOCUSTS or musical performs test people with the MARK of the BEAST (ZOE) who tried to force little jehovah and logos into forming musical worship teams. No doubt at all

Ken Sublett
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Anon.
Anon.

December 18th, 2003, 2:18 am #33

It is amusing to me that some people respond to what you say and praise you for the wonderful words that you share. There must be some type of secret code to unscramble what you say becasue it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever as is.

The sad truth of the matter is that the fundamentalists in the churches of Christ are searching for someone to articulate in an intelligent way the view of the traditional churches of Christ since nobody seems to know how to do it. For years, many people within the churches of Christ have been afraid to question their beliefs and, therefore, there has not been a need to DEFEND them. Now that there is a need to defend them, there is nobody to do it. If they are looking to Mr. Sublett to do it, then they will lose mightily because none of us have any idea what you are saying and I venture to say that those who pay tribute to you have no idea what you are saying either. They simply see the words "baptism" and "instrumental music" mingled with a few "LUCIFERS" and "SATANS" and assume that you are "right on brother."

When you count up the amount of activity on this web site, the majority of responses come from those of us who are tired of the debates on baptism and instumental music because they are a debate that has been had and was defeated. Nobody is teaching that you do not need to be baptized, they simply put baptism in its proper place and not on the same level as the crucifixion of Jesus Christ.

Please understand this and quit babbling.
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Kenneth Sublett
Kenneth Sublett

December 18th, 2003, 4:30 pm #34

Jay Guin Partial reviews.

http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Reviews.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.The.Promi ... pirit.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.What.is.A ... skins.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Instrumen ... ament.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.New.Wines ... sions.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Church.of ... .Born.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.1.Corinthians.10.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.The.Fork.in.The.Road.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Dancing.in.Worship.html
http://www.piney.com/New.Wineskins.Inst ... .Guin.html





Tainted by the Promise Keeper's cult, the Purpose Driven Cult, the Spiritist cult of Max Lucado, the Jubilee Cult of Rubel Shelly and any scam with "promises," the Hohenwald church has done a great leap forward from almost 350 as an average to probably less than 200 now with daily defections.

Major symptom is an ACU product which promotes FEMINIST HERMENEUTICS.

The ACU Agenda: Train PROPHETIC ROLES, CHANELLERS and FACILITATORS the method of subverting the 'hierarchial" views of JESUS and Paul. the end-time subversion is the beginninng-time version which is "FEMINIST hermeneutics stands over against patriarchal hermeneutics" its goal achieved "by small, often unnoticed acts of SUBVERSION. Numerous such incremental changes, like EROSION, will eventually bring down the FORTRESS " ( WOMEN IN THE CHURCH: Reclaiming the Ideal p. 32).

The symptoms from the Masculine Journey is the Feminists and effeminate turn away from the WORD including BAPTISM and the turn to singing silly, erotic praise songs, which in history was for little JEHOVAH to sing up praises to Sophia and mother ZOE to elevate himself up to the seventh, yet inferior, heaven.

It is following the same Madison plan where you get into a charismatic spasm and can't quit shooting yourself in the foot. The people were not fooled but have lived in a decade of gut-grinding sowing of discord.

At the root is Biblical illiteracy.

K. Sublett
Over 32,000 a week are able to get MORE out of any one of my articles than from an UNLAWFUL sermon from an UNLAWFUL staff infection.

Even the Fast ones in the Slow group-9 to 14 year olds enjoy help on papers about BABYLONIA which they are studying now while CASTING the Bible out.

However, for the Slow ones of the Slow group, I repeat.

The INCARNATE God of the universe says that:

You make DISCIPLES (not pagan worshipers) by BAPTIZING them so that you CAN teach them what GOD has revealed. That excludes Twila Paris.

A DISCIPLE is a STUDENT of the Word.

When a member of the EKKLESIA assembles with the ELDER at the SYNAGOGUE it is to LEARN the Bible or consult with one who is TRAINED in the Bible. One never WORSHIPS in the synagogue other than through PAUL'S only WORSHIP WORD which means to Give Heed to Christ by giving HEED to WHATSOVER He taught and revealed.

A DISCIPLE became known as a CHRISTIAN because they were FOLLOWERS of Christ Who would NEVER lead you into becoming ROBBERS OF TEMPLES.

Therefore, A CHRISTIAN is a DISCIPLE OF CHRIST (Student only) and ONLY baptized believers are DISCIPLES or CHRISTIANS. MOST religions have always been false and Jesus is picking out a tiny remnant by the TEST of faith leading to baptism which is THE FORM of His own sacrifice. Christians are despised and rejected of MOST people and trying to become RESPECTABLE for your own vested interest means that YOU may not be a Christian after all.

ALL "believers" in the Bible were BAPTIZED BELIEVERS.

God-like JUDGMENTAL LEGALISTS and TRADITIONALISTS of the Zwingli type define a believer as one who believes in FAITH ONLY. The JUDGE churches of Christ as a CULT. If you want to be part of them then YOU have to turn and rend your own family and friends. YOU have to go into captivity to YOU or THEY will not accept YOU.

Luther who INVENTED Sola Fide (faith only) INTERPRETED that to mean that you FOLLOW THE BIBLE ONLY and FAITH means that you accept the BIBLE ONLY for faith and practice.

If you have FAITH ONLY in Christ who inspired the BIBLE then you MUST be baptized in order to the FORGIVENESS of Sins.

Fellowshiping "believers-only" while driving away OWNERS-ONLY is, according to Charles Spurgeon" the bottom of the barrel of sin and loss of minimal ethics.

PERMITTING God to make exceptions is PLAYING GOD who CANNOT LIE and told you that CHRISTIANS ONLY have refused to CALL GOD A LIAR who put salvation in the simple TRUST of obeying the FORM of doctrine in water baptism. That FORM or anti-type means INSTEAD OF-type.

Contrary to those who are so JUDGMENTAL and LEGALISTIC and Zwinglian-Traditionalists to "ALLOW" God to make exceptions TELL PEOPLE that God makes exceptions. What they are saying is that WE make exceptions, WE will allow you to INFILTRATE and steal OUR church. Jesus-Only identifies "believeth nots" who are "baptized not" FOR the salvation which HE promised and YOU deny as "Treacherous (traitors) and Infidels."

YOU have no right to SAVE people by deliberately SOWING DISCORD and DRIVING OUT like DIOTREPHES those who elected (ala-commercial politics) YOU to keep the thieves out and NOT take people's money under false pretense and then CASTING them out for teaching THE BIBLE (what you call traditionalism) identifying them as SUBVERTERS.

Many of those DRIVEN OUT will never go to church again and some will be LOST because YOU lie with the word TRADITIONALIST when the Fast ones in the Slow group know that MUSIC came with Lucifer into the garden of Eden. Your musical facilitators is the ZOE group and ZOE is LUCIFER. As the AGENT in TYRE (as in Tyre and Sidon) is identified as a SINGING and HARP PLAYING prostitute.

You cannot call the positon AGAINST women exercising the AUTHENTIA autority which is erotic and murderous just TRADITION without calling Jesus and Paul liars. Paul, under inspiration, says that EVE was wholly seduced by LUCIFER and CAIN (a musical note or mark) was OF THAT WICKED ONE.

You cannot refute the position about BAPTISM without calling God a Liar.

You cannot refute the MUSIC position as TRADITIONALISM without LYING like Satan.


You CAN identify "music as the only role of the Church" as the NEW traditionalism from hell.

You CAN identify the Rubel Shely's LOCATED MISSIONARY as the MOST destructive, legalistic TRADITIONS. This is repudiated by Jesus, by Paul and by ALL of church history on the KNOWLEDGE level. You can call it the most DESTRUCTIVE TRADITIONALISM repudiated by the Restoration Movement leaders when they cleared out recent APOSTASY.

You CAN identify political-commercial elders who know nothing about the Bible and care less. They work on personal and CIVIC pride and VIOLATE the ONLY authority they have which is to "teach that which has been taught" and to "rebuke those who oppose it."

You CAN identify the LAW OF GIVING which replaced the free will giving of those who PROSPERED to those who were DESTITUTE.

You CAN identify as destructive traditionalism putting Joe six-pack on the PROGRAM just to get him to come to church (once) when honest and equipped elders should PRESIDE over. That exclude non-silent meaning non-sedentary women.

You CAN identify PROGRAMS which is the cursed pyramidal ministry system added when the ELDERS fired God and demanded "set a king over us" meaning "so we can worship LIKE THE NATIONS."

You CAN identify the GYMNASIUM which facilitated the Abomination of Desolation into the very temple in Jerusalem.

A DISCIPLE is a BAPTIZED BELIEVER. A DISCIPLE is a CHRISTIAN. An unbaptized person IS NOT a Christian altough they may be a superior moralists. You CANNOT bring UNBELIEVERS (meaning unbaptized) into the leadership of the CHURCH without knowing and with a HIGH HAND deliberately SPREADING DISCORD just so you can become ALPHA MALE in the secular community.

There simply is NO REDEMPTION for those who have known the truth and turned away to CRUCIFY CHRIST ALL OVER AGAIN. Do you KNOW WHAT? The Baptist baptism is no earlier than 1625. It is a PAGAN BAPTISM. A baptist is normally PREDESTINATED to heaven while your innocent baby is a little DRACULA, a fornicator and a SODOMITE. Why? Why because the MOTHER enjoyed conceiving it.

http://www.piney.com/BapPagan.html

When they BELIEVE which is some feeling in the gut, they are SAVED but not in fellowship. They must endure the LAW and come to the place of having CHRIST crucified all over again like the Catholic Mass. You, may, of course even BECOME Christ to die for your own sins lik the THIEF on the cross who WAS crucified for his OWN SINS. A Baptist notes that the MYSTERIES of a purely American religion--a Gnostic system--are somewhat HIDDEN because it is such an obscene, Christ denying ritual NOT learned from Jesus.

No one goes around telling them that they are going to hell so the CHARGE is a lie to try to justify the DISBELIEF in baptism or there WOULD NOT have been such a mass exodus. Don't blame me: I am trying to RECOVER from the cave of the Bear clan. Picked my pocket!

Ken
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Kenneth Sublett
Kenneth Sublett

December 18th, 2003, 4:47 pm #35

I have to do my dissertation on a daily basis and I DO make mistake: but YOU know what i mean, Huh?

Here is the stuff on the Abomination of Desolation in the Jerusale temple which defines what THE JEWS demanded of God and were CURSED when He answered their prayer and KEPT THEM virtually in prison until they went into Captivity and death BECAUSE OF THE musical idolatry at Mount Sinai.

http://www.piney.com/2Macc.html

Jesus DID read this one.

Ken
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Kenneth Sublett
Kenneth Sublett

December 18th, 2003, 5:19 pm #36

It is amusing to me that some people respond to what you say and praise you for the wonderful words that you share. There must be some type of secret code to unscramble what you say becasue it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever as is.

The sad truth of the matter is that the fundamentalists in the churches of Christ are searching for someone to articulate in an intelligent way the view of the traditional churches of Christ since nobody seems to know how to do it. For years, many people within the churches of Christ have been afraid to question their beliefs and, therefore, there has not been a need to DEFEND them. Now that there is a need to defend them, there is nobody to do it. If they are looking to Mr. Sublett to do it, then they will lose mightily because none of us have any idea what you are saying and I venture to say that those who pay tribute to you have no idea what you are saying either. They simply see the words "baptism" and "instrumental music" mingled with a few "LUCIFERS" and "SATANS" and assume that you are "right on brother."

When you count up the amount of activity on this web site, the majority of responses come from those of us who are tired of the debates on baptism and instumental music because they are a debate that has been had and was defeated. Nobody is teaching that you do not need to be baptized, they simply put baptism in its proper place and not on the same level as the crucifixion of Jesus Christ.

Please understand this and quit babbling.
Paul identified the FACTS of the death, burial, resurrection, ascension and teachings of God in Christ as the

PROTOS or prototype gospel.

God is God and we are not: we CANNOT be crucified for our own sins as in BELIEVER'S BAPTISM.

After Jesus issed the Great Commission in Matthew 28, Mark begins discussing the

ARCHE as the beginning point, corner stone, or MOST IMPORTANT part of the Gospel for we MORTALS who cannot die for our own sins and therefore TRUST the PROTOTYPE and obey THAT FORM of doctrine.

Anti- as in ANTI-TYPE of THAT FORM means INSTEAD OF. You might BELIEVE that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God but that only gives you POWER to become (future) a child of God.

Mark then records the same Great Commission showing that the BELIEVETH NOTS are traitors having been TAKEN CAPTIVE by the only other power in the universe.

The CROSS is the DRAWING POWER for those who are OF THE TRUTH who, unlike the Jewish clergy, had not sold their souls as Pharisees who STOLE THE HOUSES (ate up) of WIDOWS in exchange for PERFORMANCE PRAYERS which were sermons. To those, Jesus spoke in PARABLES to keep the BLIND from seeing (Matt 13) and the deaf from hearing.

YOU CANNOT be Christ and declare (judgmentally) that people are SAVED by being believers.

Paul showed that BAPTISM is the only place that we--who are still mortals--can PARTICIPATE in the PROTOTYPE gospel which WE can not enjoy unless we "drown in the flood, be overcome by Egypt (Hagar, the Law, Jerusalem) as SIN, be re-created as a nation or be SAVED, have our SINS REMITTED, be added to the heavenly kingdom, receive A holy spirit (not a little man of the Lucado-Shelly heresy) or receive A good conscience which mean A clear consiousness. This, in turn means a "co-perception" with the AUTHOR and FINISHER as the Living Word and as the Written Word which HE declares is the only source of SPIRIT and of LIFE.

Jesus said to DISCIPLE believers by BAPTIZING them and the TEACHING what HE has taught. A holy spirit means that God will meet us in the new PLACE of our spirit ONLY if we allow Him to sprinkle it from An EVIL-conscience or consiousness. Without this, God simply does not even SEEK worship in the human spirit which is anti-typical (Instead of) the Most Holy Place in the carnal temple where NO rhetorician, singer or musician could go under penalty of death--even to clean out the garbage.

In the NEW PLACE where Christ bestows his HEALING of giving us SPIRITUAL LIFE, He TOLD us something when He "cast out, more or less violently" the MUSICAL MINSTRELS as one "ejects dung." Dung played an important role in the sacrificial antics of the Jews.

The CHURCH has no role but to be a SYNAGOGUE or School of the Bible: even the Lord's supper is to show forth or PREACH the Death of Jesus. When He hymns in the assymbly, the word means to AGONIZE. Jesus wept. Jesus still weeps with us if we weep with Him for the sins of the world.

In Romans 14 Paul defined (to those awake) the Dionysic, wine-drinkers, meat eaters; and the Orphic vegetarians (the only vegetarians in Rome unless there were Essenes in the church). Then, in Romans 15 he defined a SYNAGOGUE OF CHRIST which permits EVERYONE to come together for BIBLE CLASSES (from the Bible, naturally). Then, imitating Christ, we do not PLEASE ourselves in the sense of charismatic SPIRIT DISTURBANCE. Then we can WITH ONE MIND and with ONE VOICE Glorify God by "that which is WRITTEN" which was by the Spirit of Christ.

God isn't LOST: you don't have to paganize to try to LEAD the people into God's Presence (Re shelly, Vineyard, New Wineskins, ZOE). He is NOT LOST and we do not, like David, have to AROUSE Him from sleep. Jesus is the MEDIATOR speaking to us through the WORD and we speak to God in prayer and meditating in the heart to God.

It is prophetic that the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY will be caught "IN the grip of someone's grudge." Jubilee REPUDIATES the Atonement and one should not get TOO smug about exchanging SAVIORS so close to the end where MOST will fail because they are IMPATIENT about forcing the KINGDOM to Come. Jesus said that the kingdom is WITHIN YOU.

The sermon uses weasel words because SOMEONE wants to MAKE EXCEPTIONS and fulfill prophecy about LUCIFER (Zoe) tring to Descend or Ascend to RUSH Jesus and thereby REJECT His role in the PROTOTYPE gospel and forget that WE are not God and must obey the ARCHE or most important part for we who are still MORTALS.

The majority WILL NEVER find Christianity (Baptized Discipleship to CHRIST ONLY) appealing and any one wanting to be faithful TO THE END should expect to be "despised and rejected of men" and be "CAST OUT OF THE SYNAGOGUE."

Ken
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Kenneth Sublett
Kenneth Sublett

December 23rd, 2003, 5:44 pm #37

Jay Guin Partial reviews.

http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Reviews.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.The.Promi ... pirit.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.What.is.A ... skins.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Instrumen ... ament.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.New.Wines ... sions.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Church.of ... .Born.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.1.Corinthians.10.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.The.Fork.in.The.Road.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Dancing.in.Worship.html
http://www.piney.com/New.Wineskins.Inst ... .Guin.html





Tainted by the Promise Keeper's cult, the Purpose Driven Cult, the Spiritist cult of Max Lucado, the Jubilee Cult of Rubel Shelly and any scam with "promises," the Hohenwald church has done a great leap forward from almost 350 as an average to probably less than 200 now with daily defections.

Major symptom is an ACU product which promotes FEMINIST HERMENEUTICS.

The ACU Agenda: Train PROPHETIC ROLES, CHANELLERS and FACILITATORS the method of subverting the 'hierarchial" views of JESUS and Paul. the end-time subversion is the beginninng-time version which is "FEMINIST hermeneutics stands over against patriarchal hermeneutics" its goal achieved "by small, often unnoticed acts of SUBVERSION. Numerous such incremental changes, like EROSION, will eventually bring down the FORTRESS " ( WOMEN IN THE CHURCH: Reclaiming the Ideal p. 32).

The symptoms from the Masculine Journey is the Feminists and effeminate turn away from the WORD including BAPTISM and the turn to singing silly, erotic praise songs, which in history was for little JEHOVAH to sing up praises to Sophia and mother ZOE to elevate himself up to the seventh, yet inferior, heaven.

It is following the same Madison plan where you get into a charismatic spasm and can't quit shooting yourself in the foot. The people were not fooled but have lived in a decade of gut-grinding sowing of discord.

At the root is Biblical illiteracy.

K. Sublett
Those who LUST for a MULTIPLYING MINISTRY worship by doing the BUNNY HOP. They can enter the DOOR to Ephesians two and HOP all of the way OVER baptism and land on verse 8 to prove FAITH ONLY which Luther and Calvin idenfied as virtual insanity.

Look at the Madison Forum (synagogue);

http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/150389

Then look at the Grace Centered assault on Mark 16:16 and more.

http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/thr ... 1072177143
Last edited by ConcernedMembers on December 23rd, 2003, 6:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Kenneth Sublett
Kenneth Sublett

January 2nd, 2004, 2:46 pm #38

Jay Guin Partial reviews.

http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Reviews.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.The.Promi ... pirit.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.What.is.A ... skins.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Instrumen ... ament.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.New.Wines ... sions.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Church.of ... .Born.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.1.Corinthians.10.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.The.Fork.in.The.Road.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Dancing.in.Worship.html
http://www.piney.com/New.Wineskins.Inst ... .Guin.html





Tainted by the Promise Keeper's cult, the Purpose Driven Cult, the Spiritist cult of Max Lucado, the Jubilee Cult of Rubel Shelly and any scam with "promises," the Hohenwald church has done a great leap forward from almost 350 as an average to probably less than 200 now with daily defections.

Major symptom is an ACU product which promotes FEMINIST HERMENEUTICS.

The ACU Agenda: Train PROPHETIC ROLES, CHANELLERS and FACILITATORS the method of subverting the 'hierarchial" views of JESUS and Paul. the end-time subversion is the beginninng-time version which is "FEMINIST hermeneutics stands over against patriarchal hermeneutics" its goal achieved "by small, often unnoticed acts of SUBVERSION. Numerous such incremental changes, like EROSION, will eventually bring down the FORTRESS " ( WOMEN IN THE CHURCH: Reclaiming the Ideal p. 32).

The symptoms from the Masculine Journey is the Feminists and effeminate turn away from the WORD including BAPTISM and the turn to singing silly, erotic praise songs, which in history was for little JEHOVAH to sing up praises to Sophia and mother ZOE to elevate himself up to the seventh, yet inferior, heaven.

It is following the same Madison plan where you get into a charismatic spasm and can't quit shooting yourself in the foot. The people were not fooled but have lived in a decade of gut-grinding sowing of discord.

At the root is Biblical illiteracy.

K. Sublett
The following post will show you what the Promise Keepers intend to do even as they are PROMISE BREAKERS to their own church. They have fallen under CULT CONTROL and probably have CONFESSED too much so that they are UNDER DOMINION to the ones who KNOW the deep, dark secrets.

http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/thr ... 1072991101

Promise Keepers, which is based on ancient hostile takeover schemes (Machiavelli, Hitler etc) has moved from PRAYER, which Machiavelli quoted by Rubel Shelly, says "rarely works" to FORCE which always works if you don't FLUSH your prey.

Promise Keepers has adopted the SHEPHERDING concept along with Max Lucado (once VP and promoter of PK), Lynn Anderson and favorably treated by Rubel Shelly.

The claim that Max and team gets NEW VISIONS (new glasses for Rubel Shelly) has been challenged by Tom.

We quote MAX LUCADO'S CONFESSION. Notice that the LANGUAGE between MY VISIONand the elders ULTIMATELY AGREEING lies the Heglian Dialectic or Concensus Scam and some REAL WARFARE. If 5 agree that Max's VISION about tossing CHRIST off the name and adding INSTRUMENTAL MUSIC is from GOD, and 4 agree that his vision (consistent with 100% of the evidence) is from Satan, then THEY can say that THE ELDERS ARE 100% in favor that INSTRUMENTS ARE OK. The SILENCE imposed by PSYCHOLOGICAL VIOLENCE does not free the COWED from the guilt of the ALWAYS IN CHARGE types.

Because Promise Keepers have, in intent, taken control of ALL OF THE CHURCHES, anyone who RESISTS the command to TO CONVERT the Hohenwald Church will hear from headquarters--No, not in heaven.

Ken Sublett
Last edited by ConcernedMembers on January 2nd, 2004, 2:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Duane
Duane

January 6th, 2004, 6:25 am #39

It is amusing to me that some people respond to what you say and praise you for the wonderful words that you share. There must be some type of secret code to unscramble what you say becasue it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever as is.

The sad truth of the matter is that the fundamentalists in the churches of Christ are searching for someone to articulate in an intelligent way the view of the traditional churches of Christ since nobody seems to know how to do it. For years, many people within the churches of Christ have been afraid to question their beliefs and, therefore, there has not been a need to DEFEND them. Now that there is a need to defend them, there is nobody to do it. If they are looking to Mr. Sublett to do it, then they will lose mightily because none of us have any idea what you are saying and I venture to say that those who pay tribute to you have no idea what you are saying either. They simply see the words "baptism" and "instrumental music" mingled with a few "LUCIFERS" and "SATANS" and assume that you are "right on brother."

When you count up the amount of activity on this web site, the majority of responses come from those of us who are tired of the debates on baptism and instumental music because they are a debate that has been had and was defeated. Nobody is teaching that you do not need to be baptized, they simply put baptism in its proper place and not on the same level as the crucifixion of Jesus Christ.

Please understand this and quit babbling.
Fundamentalists and traditional churches of Christ.
I/we do need a defender some one to speak for us. Ken is one of many. If you only see him as one then you are really not looking around. I understand what you are asking, but I don't think you will understand the answers.
The interesting thing I get out of Kens discussions is the fact that he is knowledgeable. He does go on at times but if you follow thru and read everything you will learn. If all you do is pick at it and then analyze what you want out of it then you will never understand what he is teaching. There are few of us that are new to all this. As such we need teaching. Obviously you dont. As I mentioned one other place, baptism is required by Jesus: Mark 16:16. If you say it is not for salvation you are calling Jesus a liar. I am not judging, yet I am, John 7:24. I am to judge righteous judgement. Also in Titus 3:10-11 tells me I am to reject heretics. As such that means I am to judge someone for teaching heresy.Romans 16:17-18 tells me I am to "mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them". Again I cannot do this if I don't understand what is doctrine and what is not. Ken has helped me see the doctrinal errors in the church today. I see it in many area's not just with music, but also in how we approach God.
You have mentioned that he is Babbling. I noticed that most of the time he seems that way.
I thought you both might like to know I went to ACU for 3.5 years. My sister graduated from there. She and I see eye to eye on how God and Jesus set up his church. Not all coming out of ACU is bad, but then it is difficult today to not have problems with what is the true doctrine and what is heresy.
As to Ken's babbling, I noticed that most of the time (not all) his attackers do not attack his teachings but how he teaches. In other words most of you attack him personally. As in most cases since you cannot refute what he is teaching you attack him personally. Which most of us realize is a diversionary tactic to keep us from reading and understanding what he tells us. Those of you attacking him understand you cannot attack his statements so you attack him.
I will ask a simple question you may respond with an answer or you may attack me also.
If Ken's statements are wrong give me New Testiment scripture to support your views and in the KJV only.

Also I would like to mention that you keep bringing up the cross of Christ. I think you need to look a little further than just the cross, the cross is nothing. All men die (exceptions: Elijah & Enoch), some men have died and were resurrected. But name me one other man to have died, resurrected and then gone to heaven without having died. The part you need to look to is his resurrection not his death. Almost all men have died. Only one, only one died, raised from the dead and went to heaven, never to die again. This is the important part. Not his death. Look to his resurrection not his death. Thats why on sunday we celebrate his resurrection not his death. Without his resurrection we have no way of going to heaven as that would have proved he was only a man and not the Son of God.
DOn't look to the cross look to his resurrection.

Trust in God always.
Duane
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Kenneth Sublett
Kenneth Sublett

January 8th, 2004, 9:15 pm #40

Jay Guin Partial reviews.

http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Reviews.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.The.Promi ... pirit.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.What.is.A ... skins.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Instrumen ... ament.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.New.Wines ... sions.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Church.of ... .Born.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.1.Corinthians.10.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.The.Fork.in.The.Road.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Dancing.in.Worship.html
http://www.piney.com/New.Wineskins.Inst ... .Guin.html





Tainted by the Promise Keeper's cult, the Purpose Driven Cult, the Spiritist cult of Max Lucado, the Jubilee Cult of Rubel Shelly and any scam with "promises," the Hohenwald church has done a great leap forward from almost 350 as an average to probably less than 200 now with daily defections.

Major symptom is an ACU product which promotes FEMINIST HERMENEUTICS.

The ACU Agenda: Train PROPHETIC ROLES, CHANELLERS and FACILITATORS the method of subverting the 'hierarchial" views of JESUS and Paul. the end-time subversion is the beginninng-time version which is "FEMINIST hermeneutics stands over against patriarchal hermeneutics" its goal achieved "by small, often unnoticed acts of SUBVERSION. Numerous such incremental changes, like EROSION, will eventually bring down the FORTRESS " ( WOMEN IN THE CHURCH: Reclaiming the Ideal p. 32).

The symptoms from the Masculine Journey is the Feminists and effeminate turn away from the WORD including BAPTISM and the turn to singing silly, erotic praise songs, which in history was for little JEHOVAH to sing up praises to Sophia and mother ZOE to elevate himself up to the seventh, yet inferior, heaven.

It is following the same Madison plan where you get into a charismatic spasm and can't quit shooting yourself in the foot. The people were not fooled but have lived in a decade of gut-grinding sowing of discord.

At the root is Biblical illiteracy.

K. Sublett
And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much. Mark 12:41

..And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing. Mark 12:42
And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury: Mark 12:43

....For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living. Mark 12:44

I THINK THAT JESUS TURNED OVER THE COLLECTION PLATES (CALLED TRUMPETS) THUS REPUDIATING ANYONE WHO WOULD TAKE THE WIDOWS MITE: ESPECIALLY IF THEY INTEND TO BAIT AND SWITCH. THE TEMPLE CAME DOWN AND THE "CLERGY" AND THEIR INSTRUMENTS WERE LOST AND THEY ARE STILL LOOKING FOR THEM IN ORDER TO RESTORE THE PAGAN-LIKE TEMPLE.

Matt 23:12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.

Matt 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

Matt Mt.23:14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, HYPOCRITES for ye DEVOUR widows HOUSES, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.

The SECTARIAN HYPOCRITES were "rhetoricians, sOPHISts (serpents), singers and musicians. They are called SORCERERS in the Book of Revelation. In the Greek World they were all PARASITES. Parasites are the ONLY Ones who seek YOUR money so that they can divert it to their own lusts.

http://www.piney.com/LayByInStore.html

Anyone promoting the TITHE is anti-Christ because they CLAIM for their priesthood--OFFERING SACRIFICES--what only the Levi tribe was given because THEY had no free farms. This ammounted, in a seven year period, to 2/7ths of the FOOD grown only on the FARMS. Anyone who claims a legal right to your WAGE should be SHUNNED.

Unless the misleaders GIVE you a free farm or business then YOU do not OWE them a RED PENNY.

Never give A TITHE or even one penny unless you know that you are dealing with people who will not be a Judas Goat.

Ken Sublett
Last edited by ConcernedMembers on January 8th, 2004, 10:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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