Hohenwald Church of Christ, birds of a feather! Jay Guin Links

Sarcasic Sacred Cow
Sarcasic Sacred Cow

October 23rd, 2003, 2:21 am #11

Among some I know to question Max Lucado or Rubel Shelly is like slapping their wife.

It is clear that Max Lucado, having imbibed Spiritists voodoo in Brazil and now cross polinating it there as the Family of God and sowing discord, is the ONE to whom many, virtually Bible illiterate people, honor above the Word and the Living Word.

A key operative in Brazil sponsored by MAX (since the STAFF makes the decisions) is Dennis Downing. Dennis knows that he cannot BUY AND SELL without the MARK of MAX moves from a once solid basis to BOWING by proclaiming the new BLASPHEMY of Just Jesus (and Our new REVELATION).

http://www.piney.com/Dennis.Downing.html

One observer of Oak Hills, Max Lucado and the DITTO HEADS repudiating Christ and His word notes: "Hence, one can predict based on Paul's life and model what Christians who emulate Paul will do and will become. Relative to "churches of Christ," there are a number of influences at work. One influence that continues is the influence of liberalism and progression. John warns of becoming progressive when he wrote: "Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God…" (2 Jn. 9). According to some of the better manuscripts, the verb translated transgresseth is proago. W. E. Vine simply comments on proago as follows: "…To lead forth…In 2 John 9…(marg., 'taketh the lead') the R. V. renders it 'goeth onward…of not abiding in the doctrine of Christ" (Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words). Many consider the Oak Hills Church as the model for digression within churches of Christ."

http://www.bibletruths.net/Archives/BTAR268.htm

It fits the PATTERNISM to put a focus on RESCUING FAMILIES AND MARRIAGES, but Paradoxically Predictable, at the same time their Satan-like "wearing out of the saints" actually drives a wedge between faithful husbands and wives. Women of the CHANGE AGENDA have been known to preassure the "MUSIC DRIVEN rejecting of the Bible and turn to effeminate entertainment" wives to divorce their Bible believing husbands.

Women or effeminate males will always be the driving force of a "worship" service which creates FIGHT, FLIGHT and SEXUALITY as the most fulfilling moments of their drab lives. Isaiah warning that "women and children will rule over you" meant WOMEN AND THE EFFEMINATE who CANNOT BEAR to enter into dialog with a MASCULINE God." Karen Armstrong, A History of God

Remember that coming out of ACU is a change agenda like the FEMINIST AGENDA which changes "by little acts of TREASON." The purpose is to REJECT the PATRIARCHAL God who is FATHER AND SON rather than MOTHER AND GOD.

When you turn to performance "music" by the singy-clappy guys or PLANT a musical worship team in the audience to CHARISMATE them into a sexual experience, you are worshiping the MOTHER GODDES (Eve,ZOE, Inanna the Babylon harlot) and all of her daughters who lust to be seen in performance. They are absolutely sure that they LEAD YOU into the presence and therefore TRIUMPH OVER Lord Jesus Christ as the ONE AND ONLY Masculine Mediator. It is prophesied: it is in the book.
"Remember that coming out of ACU is a change agenda like the FEMINIST AGENDA which changes "by little acts of TREASON." The purpose is to REJECT the PATRIARCHAL God who is FATHER AND SON rather than MOTHER AND GOD."

Should I add fuel to the fire by telling you that I'm a product of a "CHRISTIAN EDUCATION". You probably already guessed. Right? Don't you think that combining the two are dangerous...I mean your analogy that is...those who come out of ACU, DLU, or where ever and those in the Feminist Agengda.

I mean now I've rejected all that you stand for and someone has slapped my wife. Does Jeff Shelly stand for such a thing? Do the feminists approve? Man, I can't do anything right.(Actually not all that you stand for) - you see, you're more concerned about being right than saving souls. We both serve and adhere to the same God.

Does this reak with sarcasm? Are you gettting the hint? You're not being taken seriously, nor will you.
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Cathy
Cathy

November 13th, 2003, 10:07 pm #12

Jay Guin Partial reviews.

http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Reviews.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.The.Promi ... pirit.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.What.is.A ... skins.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Instrumen ... ament.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.New.Wines ... sions.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Church.of ... .Born.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.1.Corinthians.10.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.The.Fork.in.The.Road.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Dancing.in.Worship.html
http://www.piney.com/New.Wineskins.Inst ... .Guin.html





Tainted by the Promise Keeper's cult, the Purpose Driven Cult, the Spiritist cult of Max Lucado, the Jubilee Cult of Rubel Shelly and any scam with "promises," the Hohenwald church has done a great leap forward from almost 350 as an average to probably less than 200 now with daily defections.

Major symptom is an ACU product which promotes FEMINIST HERMENEUTICS.

The ACU Agenda: Train PROPHETIC ROLES, CHANELLERS and FACILITATORS the method of subverting the 'hierarchial" views of JESUS and Paul. the end-time subversion is the beginninng-time version which is "FEMINIST hermeneutics stands over against patriarchal hermeneutics" its goal achieved "by small, often unnoticed acts of SUBVERSION. Numerous such incremental changes, like EROSION, will eventually bring down the FORTRESS " ( WOMEN IN THE CHURCH: Reclaiming the Ideal p. 32).

The symptoms from the Masculine Journey is the Feminists and effeminate turn away from the WORD including BAPTISM and the turn to singing silly, erotic praise songs, which in history was for little JEHOVAH to sing up praises to Sophia and mother ZOE to elevate himself up to the seventh, yet inferior, heaven.

It is following the same Madison plan where you get into a charismatic spasm and can't quit shooting yourself in the foot. The people were not fooled but have lived in a decade of gut-grinding sowing of discord.

At the root is Biblical illiteracy.

K. Sublett
Mr. Sublett, for several months I have been reading (at least trying to) your posts on concerned members and have look at your piney info. It is obvious that you are a very intelligent person and have done your research, but I have trouble understanding exactly what you are trying to say sometimes. My question is: are you saying all music is sinful, even music outside the church service?, are you saying "4 part Fanny" as you describe it, is wrong in the church and where do you attend church? If you are right about music, and other things, then NO church of Christ, or any other church that I know of is worshipping in the new testament way. That would make the traditionalists just as wrong as the contemporaries. How do YOU worship?
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Kenneth Sublett
Kenneth Sublett

November 14th, 2003, 5:58 pm #13

No, I have always associated my comments about "music"with its use in a religious sense. However, it is often the professional or otherwise highly gifted singers and players who will often try to slip their "talent" into the "worship." Worship is ONLY in the new PLACE of the human spirit as it gives heed to the Word which is the Spirit OF truth: the mind of Christ. Worship "in spirit" does not mean with a certain attitude which some define as "exhilarating" to the sowing of discord among those who rarely see modern musicians as "talented."

Even David sang the psalms (on his bed) and GAVE HEED to the spiritual content. His "worship" in the Psalms is identical to Paul's command. This was NEVER to sing in a musical sense. Paul's direct command was to SPEAK which is the same as PREACH to one another. In Romans 15 the way to imitate Christ would be to NOT create spiritual excitement (meaning to please). Paul said that they should use THAT WHICH IS WRITTEN. The purpose was to TEACH AND ADMONISH one another as the way to GLORIFY God rather than human composers who CANNOT compose either hymns, psalms or spiritual songs: these are all classes of metrical material in the Old testament. They were to speak WITH ONE MIND and ONE VOICE and not to sing in the modern sense.

One of the first heresies which SOWED DISCORD in churches who called themselves the church of Christ was human compositions. These were "inspired" at times to do literal battle with the Arians who discovered that they could best deny Christ by writing their own songs.

When the Campbells left the Presbyterians it was the Presbyterians who repudiated instruments and songs other than the paraphrased Psalms of Watts, etc. Many are still faithful. Alexander Campbell had a "song book" (I have seen his copy) with no notes but this was to keep from taking an unlawful wage from the young churches.

I don't know "how much we can bend the Word before it breaks." However, I do know several things with absolute certainty:

The MUSIC word is never said to contribute any spiritual value to a group. History is clear that singing was a very old superstition as well as the way in which the TRIBAL LEADER (Alpha Male) forced all members to be UNITED and to honor the top billy goat (Pan the Beast in Revelation: His "horns" are musical instruments to help him hold his "mountain.")

I know that every musical term or name of an instrument (often Greek) speaks of innocent children's games, fertility rituals, weapons of prostitutes and Sodomites and to tell God: "WE WILL NOT LISTEN TO YOUR WORD." Lucifer is said to have brought wind, string and percussion instruments into the garden of Eden. The serpent is the Naga or Nachash: a musical enchanter. As the king/queen of Tyre he/she was called "the singing and harp playing prostitute." Paul said that the "serpent" wholly seduced Eve in the sense that Adam had second choice. That is why CAIN, meaning a musical note, is said to be OFF that wicked one. His descendants learned how to manipulate people so that you could sell them their own cows.

ALL churches of Christ violate the CORE meaning of the Assembly which is not "church" but Ekklesia. The word Synagogue is also a Greek word. The synagogue of the Jews had "no praise services" because it was a SCHOOL OF THE BIBLE and for community prayer. This is why the end times enemies of Christ and His WORDS have deliberately made us all Biblically crippled. Furthermore, because the QUALITY of the unlawful preaching and singing VALIDATES the leaders as community leaders, the members live in mortal fear of loosing approval from the cult leader. If he allowed the WORDS of Christ to be taught or sung they would have a complete knowledge of the PROSE Old Testament history. Cult leaders WILL NOT TOLERATE the teaching of the word "as it has been taught."

Thomas Campbell forcefully states that the meaning of "worship" is to assemble to read and study the WORD and muse or mediate on similar passages. He said that "church" was A SCHOOL OF CHRIST.

This is not legalism but a pragmatic fact. If you sing in the EXHILARATED sense you are doing what instruments do: creating the impulses of fight, flight and sexuality. Nimrod at the towers of Babylon knew that and had his worship team and proposed to "regenerate people through external means."

Melody is NOT a musical term: Apollo or Abaddon or apollyon in the Classics and the book of Revelation were SERVED by the MUSES or musicians. In the legends John knew about and used to CODE the book, the MUSES failed in their worship of the MOTHER OF THE GODS under Apollyon. She sentenced them into the underground. Apollo in Revelation releases them for the END TIMES. This form of locust was known as musical performers. They had scorpion stings in their tail and were expert at putting people to sleep.

Melody is directly related to Apollo who was the 'father' of musical harmony from twanging the bowstring to send a SINGING arrow into your literal heart. He was also the father of THIEVES and LIARS. When people decide that the GOAL of the church is to WORSHIP they usually mean something performed FOR them. "Groups" actually claim to replace the MEDIATING work of Jesus Christ. They intend, according to the Purpose Driven Cult, to shut down Biblical teaching and make the church into a "theater for holy entertainment." The intention is never to teach doctrine to the children but to MAKE THEM HAPPY so mommy and daddy will return and be ENABLERS of the legalistic "law of giving." They often have every intention of DIVERTING your hard money into a new church which you oppose. Sounds criminal to me.

Melody as "tunefulness belongs to the 19th century." The Britannica. History agrees with this and no one will find any Biblical or historical argument against it: they JUST MAKE IT UP to keep your mind nailed to the floor while they TAKE YOU CAPTIVE. They DO NOT believe that the Bible is inspired. Charles Spurgeon claims that the lowest life in existence is one who takes pay from a congregation but does not believe what they believe. But, the father of musical harmony is the father of thieves and liars.

EXTERNAL
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Kenneth Sublett
Kenneth Sublett

November 17th, 2003, 6:03 pm #14

The Bible does not recognize a RITUAL called singing: Jesus died to remove both the burden and the burden laders. The burden is defined as "spiritual anxiety created by religious ritual." The REST Jesus died to give mankind was to quarantine people from pagan rituals just as God's REST one out of seven days was to quarantine people from RELIGION which was sabbaterian and ritual infested. If you just REST God keeps you away from destructive rituals.

No one can read the Bible and say that Paul commanded SINGING in the first instance. He commanded teaching and admonishing, using "that which is written, the Spirit or the Word of Christ."

WE are the "man" who put a stumbling block in the front of everyone when we turned from Thomas Campbell's SCHOOL OF CHRIST to "organum" singing to LEGALISTICALLY sing but not have machines to do our praising. A few years ago Satan's little agents told everyone and just about everyone believed that the "goal" of the church is to WORSIP where worship meant to EVERYONE to sing the sexually stimulating praise songs to actuall CHANGE the brain hard wiring so that it lost its ability to focus for a few moments to listen to Christ in song and sermon without, like little children, butting in.

Just as we teach that only God can inspired Scripture for our learning, John Calvin taught that no human can compose Psalms, Hymns and Spiritual songs able to praise an infinite, Spiritual God. Philo and lots of others understood that the Psalms were to be TAUGHT so that the true singing and melody can be IN THE HEART (as Paul insisted) rather than an audible group singing their ROTE lessons.

"...Philo of Alexandria had already emphasized the ethical qualities of music, spurning the 'effeminate' art of his Gentile surroundings. Similarly, early synagogue song intentionally foregoes ARTISTIC perfection, renounces the playing of instruments, and attaches itself entirely to THE WORD--the TEXT of the Bible" (Encyclopaedia Judaica, 1971 ed., s.v. "Music")

"Already at the end of the second century the Byzantine, Syrian, and later the Armenian church showed a marked preference for new, nonscriptural hymns, despite all warnings by the catholic authorities. Even Canon 59 of the Council of Laodicea (360-81), which expressly prohibited nonscriptural texts, was constantly circumvented and openly violated, as enormous hymn literature of the Eastern churches demonstrate." (The Int. Std. Bible Dict., p. 467)

"The Ambrosian chant, with notes of unequal duration, has more the character of a RECITIVE...Ecclesiastical chant, departing in some instances from the simple majesty of its original character, became more ARTISTIC, and on this account, less heavenly and more profane..." (Alzog, Universal Church History, Vol. I., pp. 696, 697).

"Church music, which at the outset consisted mainly of the SINGING of the PSALMS, flourished especially in Syria and at Alexandria. The music was very simple in its character." (George Park Fisher, History of The Christian Church, pp. 65, 121).

"The basis of Christian ecclesiastical music was in vocal character. It was the PRAYER of the community sung by the people" (History of Catholic Church Music, p. 13).

"The popular song was almost certainly limited in compass to a very few notes repeated over and over in long recitations or ballads" (Int. Std. Bible Ency., Song, p. 2431).

"In the first ages the psalms were sung by the whole assembly standing; after the fourth century the practice was introduced by St. Ambrose from the east was adopted in the west, by which the psalms were sung in alternate chant by the congregation, divided into two choirs. The melodies in which they were sung were simple, almost RECITVE; but, at the end of the fourth century, a more artificial song was introduced into some churches as in that of Milan" (J.J. Ignatius Dollinger, History of the Church, Vol. II., pp. 307-308).

"In GNOSTIC circles religious poetry arose to compete with the Old Testament Psalms. Some Catholics therefore distrusted the composition of hymns after this pattern, on the ground that they might smack of heresy. Yet from at least the second century hymns were written by the orthodox which, like their Gnostic counterparts, employed the forms of Greek poetry...Until near the end of the fourth century, in the services of the Catholic Church only the Old Testament Psalms and the hymns or canticles from the New Testament were sung: the other hymns were for personal, family, or private use. Gradually there were prepared versical paraphrases of the Psalms, hymns with lines of equal length, and hymns which were acrostic." (Latourette, p. 207).

"The Arians and other HERETICS embodied their doctrines in verses to be sung." (antiphonally). (George Park Fisher, History of The Christian Church, pp. 65, 121).

"In the Arian struggle the use of hymns other than psalms grew common, and was furthered in the West with great success by Ambrose of Milan" (Williston Walker, A History of the Christian Church, p. 167).

"But considerable prominence was given to hymns by the Gnostic, Bardesanes, who composed 150 psalms. However, the 59th canon of the Synod of Laodicea, 360 AD, enjoined that 'No psalm composed by private individuals nor any uncanonical books may be read in the church, but only...the Canonical Books of the OT and NT." (Int Std. Bible Ency., Psalm, p. 2494a).

Do I expect to change those who sing with HARMONY which is more violently destructive to the mind than simple external MELODY of the first century? Not in the least. Not any more than I exect people to cast out their MUSICAL IDOLS both human and mechanical. Do I expect people to give up their "blue book"? Not in the slightest. When people FALL in the musical sense both the Bible and ancient documents make it certain that they will never back down.

Ken
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Kenneth Sublett
Kenneth Sublett

November 18th, 2003, 9:41 pm #15

Jay Guin Partial reviews.

http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Reviews.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.The.Promi ... pirit.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.What.is.A ... skins.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Instrumen ... ament.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.New.Wines ... sions.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Church.of ... .Born.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.1.Corinthians.10.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.The.Fork.in.The.Road.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Dancing.in.Worship.html
http://www.piney.com/New.Wineskins.Inst ... .Guin.html





Tainted by the Promise Keeper's cult, the Purpose Driven Cult, the Spiritist cult of Max Lucado, the Jubilee Cult of Rubel Shelly and any scam with "promises," the Hohenwald church has done a great leap forward from almost 350 as an average to probably less than 200 now with daily defections.

Major symptom is an ACU product which promotes FEMINIST HERMENEUTICS.

The ACU Agenda: Train PROPHETIC ROLES, CHANELLERS and FACILITATORS the method of subverting the 'hierarchial" views of JESUS and Paul. the end-time subversion is the beginninng-time version which is "FEMINIST hermeneutics stands over against patriarchal hermeneutics" its goal achieved "by small, often unnoticed acts of SUBVERSION. Numerous such incremental changes, like EROSION, will eventually bring down the FORTRESS " ( WOMEN IN THE CHURCH: Reclaiming the Ideal p. 32).

The symptoms from the Masculine Journey is the Feminists and effeminate turn away from the WORD including BAPTISM and the turn to singing silly, erotic praise songs, which in history was for little JEHOVAH to sing up praises to Sophia and mother ZOE to elevate himself up to the seventh, yet inferior, heaven.

It is following the same Madison plan where you get into a charismatic spasm and can't quit shooting yourself in the foot. The people were not fooled but have lived in a decade of gut-grinding sowing of discord.

At the root is Biblical illiteracy.

K. Sublett
The local "infiltrated plant" with blood still dripping from his new SHEEP'S SKIN believes that because WE cannot say how God will SAVE the unbelieving and unbaptized, WE must accept all "sincere" people into full fellowship. However, the denominations with which they have cozy feelings will NEVER give up baptism BECAUSE they were saved without it. If you were baptized IN ORDER TO THE REMISSION of sins you are a CULTISTS according to Baptists. YOU have never had the HIGH FIVE from God that you are one of the SELECT FEW; you have never experienced a supernatural sign, you have never had JESUS personally (or you have not BECOME JESUS) to die for YOUR SINS, then YOU will never be accepted in full fellowship until YOU conform. Paul said that FOOLS love to be FOOLED. THEREFORE, the urge to SAVE people where Jesus has not WASHED them is a CUNNINGLY CRAFTY way to move YOUR church into becoming a BAPTIST church or a charismatic church.

The example of the SAVED thief on the cross "TRUMPS the rest of the Bible and church history." Therefore, this is a DISHONEST way to try to weazel in their false dogma without getting FIRED for being a traitor to Christ and them "wot feeds them."

---Max Lucado writes: "With the exception of the thief on the cross, there is no example of an unbaptized believer.

However, the thief on the cross believed, like the apostles, that Christ would set up an EARTHLY KINGDOM. Therefore, the thief did not believe that Jesus was God Incarnate and had no evidence to suspect that His kingdom was to be in the human heart and not earthly. He did not know anything about the meaning of the gospel as Jesus Christ fulfilling God's purpose to save souls. Baptism is into discipleship to Jesus among the living. Jesus commanded baptism as part of making a disciple to Himself as the master teacher. Therefore, the thief was not baptized into discipleship.

Since the thief on the cross was said to be placed by Jesus in the position of all of the DEAD who would get a chance to hear the gospel, he is NOT an exception to anything.

...Max Lucado exults: "The thief on the cross, however, is a crucial exception. His conversion drives DOGMATISTS crazy.

It also drives crazy people dogmatic. Max Lucado is willing to be deceived into find ONE hallucinated exception and on that repudiates the Bible as it has been taught until Zwingli. This leads to teaching as DOGMA, CREED and a new PATTERNISM that you (who didn't die on a cross for your own sins) can REPUDIATE the direct command of Jesus. If it is a rule that he that jumpeth off a tall building shall die, these people are willing to teach people that YOU CAN'T PROVOE THAT EVERYONE WHO JUMPS DIES. Therefore, YOU have no right to warn people not to jump off tall buildings.

That the thief was "CONVERTED" is just postmodern psychobabble for the "obsolete" Bible. There is no evidence that the thief was converted. Luke by the Holy Spirit draws a parallelism between being BAPTIZED and being CONVERTED. Because the thief believed that Jesus was special and that he understood that Jesus was going to BUILD A KINGDOM he wanted to be remembered. But listen to the mother of the OTHER sons of thunder:

"Then came to him the mother of Zebedees children with her sons, worshipping him, and desiring a certain thing of him. Matt 20:20
.."And he said unto her, What wilt thou? She saith unto him, Grant that these my two sons may sit, the one on thy right hand, and the other on the left, in thy kingdom. Matt 20:21
...."But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able. Matt 20:22

Now look at the thief on the cross:

"And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us. Luke 23:39
.."But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? Luke 23:40
...."And we indeed JUSTLY; for we receive the DUE REWARD of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss. Luke 23:41

The Thief never said that he believed that Jesus was the Christ the Son of God. Therefore, he MADE no saving confession. He asked for no FORM of crucifixion to ESCAPE his own cross. He didn't asked to be SAVED or CONVERTED. He didn't even ask Jesus to forgive His sins: he would have thought of asking a HUMAN dying on the cross for forgiveness of sins as blasphemy.

.."And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. Luke 23:42

Of course, Jesus didn't answer the question as was His custom when there was no need for "theology."

..."And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with ME in paradise. Luke 23:43

The kingdom would not begin until the KING and PRIEST sat down on ONE throne. Therefore, paradise IS NOT THE KINGDOM of Christ. Therefore, appealing to a THIEF rather than the SAVIOR for evidence of salvation means that they are ignorant of the meaning of the kingdom and evil for suggesting that Christ's kingdom was in the netherworld where both good and evil resided until the resurrection.

The thief on the cross was a thief. He confessed that he was a thief. He did not know what he was asking.

Jesus promised that he would be in paradise or a park- like place that was pleasant.

The thief on the cross WAS crucified: He WAS baptized with the same "suffering and death." He died for HIS OWN SINS although that could not redeem him.

IF YOU WHINE ABOUT THE THIEF ON THE CROSS, THE FURTHER EVIDENCE OF THOSE THAT "BELIEVETH NOT," AND ARE NOT BAPTIZED MEANS THAT YOU DO NOT ACCEPT CHRIST AS YOUR "INSTEAD OF." You don't even repent FOR forgiveness.

Baptism is a FORM of that baptism of suffering and death. The "form" means anti-type or INSTEAD OF dying on the cross like the thief on the cross.

The TRUE Max often ooozes to the surface as we note again: "The thief on the cross, however, is a crucial exception. His conversion drives dogmatists crazy."

An EXCEPTION to the RULE proves the RULE. If Max accepts that the thief is an EXCEPTION then he confesses that baptism IN ORDER TO REMISSION OF SINS is the rule laid down by Jesus, practiced and commanded by the Apostles and until the Baptist got led astray by Zwingli who said that HE was the EXCEPTION out of 1525 years of church history.

Those who rest their faith on the THIEF should present themselves to the nearest barn to be nailed to it for THEIR OWN SINS, not under OUR ROCK but under the "SEE ROCK CITY" sign. By THEIR PRESUMPTIOUS offering "grace" to those who deliberately disobey the direct commandment of Christ, people deprive themselves of grace. Otherwise, how could one INFILTRATE in order to DIVERT a church and sow massive discord just for a paycheck from the will of a dead, crippled widow?

At the same time, the local god-like urge to SAVE people without their obeying the direct command of Jesus proves the depth of ignorance and false teaching coming out of the once-christian colleges most of which have been TAKEN CAPTIVE until Jesus comes. This will be the MARK Jesus gives when hiring an unlawful "gospel-less preacher."

Nothing is so evil as disloyalty. Charles Spurgeon says in effect that it is the BOTTOM OF THE BARREL of evil when you RIDE the backs of widows and then drive them away in deadly tears by INFILTRATING and DIVERTING. We detest the Judas Goats of the end times who are described as the BEASTS with ten horns: the pan pipes all musical.

Purpose Driven Cultists agree with malice aforethought that they will lose almost half of THEIR congregation in the interest of joining with the Baptists and Church of God to "evangelize" for some kind "Christ" who is not the one in the Bible. Since NEITHER of the cultists "evangelize" this is just another sign of the end-times when people flee to the ROCKS to save them. But, Paul warned to STAY AWAY FROM CROWDS and be "outside the city or walls" in order to find Jesus.

See the gospel most know nothings are following:

http://www.piney.com/Max-Lucado-Thief-on-Cross.html

Ken Sublett
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B. David Thomas
B. David Thomas

November 19th, 2003, 3:54 pm #16

Good morning Mr. Sublett,

I was just curious to know exactly where you attend worship? I'd also be interested in knowing what your qualifications are for offering the criticisms which you seem to so liberally espouse? Any response will most appreciated.

Thank you,
David Thomas
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Why?
Why?

December 2nd, 2003, 4:32 am #17

Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
Romans 14:13

And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Matthew 7:3

Please stop judging us.
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Kenneth Sublett
Kenneth Sublett

December 2nd, 2003, 4:39 pm #18

Good morning Mr. Sublett,

I was just curious to know exactly where you attend worship? I'd also be interested in knowing what your qualifications are for offering the criticisms which you seem to so liberally espouse? Any response will most appreciated.

Thank you,
David Thomas
I have answered direcly to the question. However, I have been a member of the Hohenwald Church of Christ for about ten years after retiring back here. I left in 1950 to "make the world safe for communism" in 1950. Turns out, what we thought to be futile risks turned out to make us winners after the evil collapsed.

I have been BAITED and SWITCHED out of a large dollar ammount after being warned many times. Hohenwald has been DISSOCIATED as they say first by the Jubilee, then Promise Keepers and now the Purpose Driven Cult. From a high of close to 350 their "great leap forward" has them less than 200 and people fleeing every day. The self-selected elders DO NOT believe what churches of Christ believe. Therefore, in the words of Charles Spurgeon, this makes them beyond the pale of ethics and Christian conduct as they COLLECT and DIVERT the residuals of a dead, crippled widow and the "church house of living widows who flee in tears." This is Satanic.

The are not free thinkers but have been taken captive by the likes of Rubel Shelly who cannot speak the Bible STRAIGHT. He speaks of a FAMILY or COMMUNE church and claims that REPENTANCE does not lead to baptism but to a "GUSHING FORTH OF THE HOLY SPIRIT PERSON." Well, easy test: Jesus and Paul or Rubel Shelly a latter day prophet with NEW GLASSES to get a NEW VISION for the church. Lynn Anderson is another Messiah who promotes the Shepherding or Discipling dilema out of San Antonio. And Max Lucado also from the "Alamo" who just had the STAFF hire a DISCIPLING MINISTER. Lucado brought Spiritism from Brazil and is heading up the missions in Brazil to cross infect the churches of Christ. Rubel Shelly boasts that Max Lucado picked him up recently at the airport in a LIMO. Sure, he was in San Antonio just to see the ALAMO.

COMMERCE or TRAFFICKING leaders who TAKE OVER the "spiritual rule" cannot help but introduce the same COMMERCIAL schemes into the church. They are biblically illiterate and will not tolerate anyone who knows more about the Bible than they do.

I became a shut in with all of my glands failing so I cannot attend right now.

Ken Sublett
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Kenneth Sublett

December 2nd, 2003, 10:36 pm #19

Jay Guin Partial reviews.

http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Reviews.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.The.Promi ... pirit.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.What.is.A ... skins.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Instrumen ... ament.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.New.Wines ... sions.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Church.of ... .Born.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.1.Corinthians.10.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.The.Fork.in.The.Road.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Dancing.in.Worship.html
http://www.piney.com/New.Wineskins.Inst ... .Guin.html





Tainted by the Promise Keeper's cult, the Purpose Driven Cult, the Spiritist cult of Max Lucado, the Jubilee Cult of Rubel Shelly and any scam with "promises," the Hohenwald church has done a great leap forward from almost 350 as an average to probably less than 200 now with daily defections.

Major symptom is an ACU product which promotes FEMINIST HERMENEUTICS.

The ACU Agenda: Train PROPHETIC ROLES, CHANELLERS and FACILITATORS the method of subverting the 'hierarchial" views of JESUS and Paul. the end-time subversion is the beginninng-time version which is "FEMINIST hermeneutics stands over against patriarchal hermeneutics" its goal achieved "by small, often unnoticed acts of SUBVERSION. Numerous such incremental changes, like EROSION, will eventually bring down the FORTRESS " ( WOMEN IN THE CHURCH: Reclaiming the Ideal p. 32).

The symptoms from the Masculine Journey is the Feminists and effeminate turn away from the WORD including BAPTISM and the turn to singing silly, erotic praise songs, which in history was for little JEHOVAH to sing up praises to Sophia and mother ZOE to elevate himself up to the seventh, yet inferior, heaven.

It is following the same Madison plan where you get into a charismatic spasm and can't quit shooting yourself in the foot. The people were not fooled but have lived in a decade of gut-grinding sowing of discord.

At the root is Biblical illiteracy.

K. Sublett
New Letter circulating in Hohenwald demanding that the Judas goats resign.

http://www.piney.com/Hohenwald.Letter.three.html

Elder does not need Biblical authority for changing baptism or approving of instrumental music.

What is the logic? Well, he was probably reading Rubel Shelly.

John said that the world would not hold the books if everything revealed about Christ were written. Hey, but God is infinite and eternal. Therefore, you cannot write his deeds in a book.

But these guys believe that John meant that there was just not enough books to define the actions of Jesus. But, if someone wrote every microsecond of the earthly life of Jesus and everything He TAUGHT you could get it in a book.

Nevertheless, they believe there are UNWRITTEN words floating around and JUST NOW making their way into THEIR deluded minds. But, if music is now ok when Jesus repudiated it in MANY ways, and if he had spoken some words which approved of the effeminate fellows doing "praise songs" then WHICH Jesus is the Messiah and which one is a LIAR.

The truth is that they HATE water and they hate SILENCE and giving heed to the WORDS of Christ "as they have been taught." That is an OLD fact which needs not proving now. But, I believe that Satan has them by their tail in these end times.

Ken Sublett
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Kenneth Sublett

December 3rd, 2003, 12:34 am #20

Jay Guin Partial reviews.

http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Reviews.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.The.Promi ... pirit.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.What.is.A ... skins.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Instrumen ... ament.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.New.Wines ... sions.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Church.of ... .Born.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.1.Corinthians.10.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.The.Fork.in.The.Road.html
http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Dancing.in.Worship.html
http://www.piney.com/New.Wineskins.Inst ... .Guin.html





Tainted by the Promise Keeper's cult, the Purpose Driven Cult, the Spiritist cult of Max Lucado, the Jubilee Cult of Rubel Shelly and any scam with "promises," the Hohenwald church has done a great leap forward from almost 350 as an average to probably less than 200 now with daily defections.

Major symptom is an ACU product which promotes FEMINIST HERMENEUTICS.

The ACU Agenda: Train PROPHETIC ROLES, CHANELLERS and FACILITATORS the method of subverting the 'hierarchial" views of JESUS and Paul. the end-time subversion is the beginninng-time version which is "FEMINIST hermeneutics stands over against patriarchal hermeneutics" its goal achieved "by small, often unnoticed acts of SUBVERSION. Numerous such incremental changes, like EROSION, will eventually bring down the FORTRESS " ( WOMEN IN THE CHURCH: Reclaiming the Ideal p. 32).

The symptoms from the Masculine Journey is the Feminists and effeminate turn away from the WORD including BAPTISM and the turn to singing silly, erotic praise songs, which in history was for little JEHOVAH to sing up praises to Sophia and mother ZOE to elevate himself up to the seventh, yet inferior, heaven.

It is following the same Madison plan where you get into a charismatic spasm and can't quit shooting yourself in the foot. The people were not fooled but have lived in a decade of gut-grinding sowing of discord.

At the root is Biblical illiteracy.

K. Sublett
Bruce and the latest bulletin:

"But all too often, I hear statements about what it (the Bible) says that are not necessarily true. I have heard many statements that are more about not changing a method of ministry or that are more about keeping everybody happy than they are about Scripture.

"Now, we all want peace and unity and God calls us to be considerate of one another (Romans 14; I Corinthians 8; Philippians 2). But, we must also be honest with Scripture as we seek to practice truth.

"We would be naieve to admit that we do not bring baggage with us when we come to the Bible. We are influenced by a number of sources over the years, and we are indebted to them. [Preachers are not?]

Then quoting Alexander Campbell:

"I have endeavored to read the Scriptures as though no one had read them before me; and I am as much on my guard against reading them today, through the medium of my own views yesterday, or a week ago, as I am of being influenced by any foreign name, authority, or system, whatever," Alexander Campbeil stated in the Christian Baptist in 1826.

----------------
Ken: but Alexander specificially repudiated listening to or reading the works of other PREACHERS. In the same article proving that READING FOR SELF is the only way to learn, Campbell blasted away when challenged about "NO PAY FOR SERMONIZING."

"And I can assure you that the scriptures, when made their own interpreter, and accompanied with earnest desires to the author of these writings, have become, to me, a book entirely new, and unlike what they were when read and consulted as a book of reference--

"A hireling is one who prepares himself for the office of a "preacher" or "minister," as a mechanic learns a trade, and who obtains a license from a congregation, convention, presbytery, pope, or diocesan bishop, as a preacher or minister, and agrees by the day or sermon, month or year, for a stipulated reward. This definition requires explanation. That such, however, is a hireling, requires little demonstration. He learns the art and mystery of making a sermon, or a prayer, as a man learns the art of making a boot or a shoe."

TAKE A LOOK to see why they don't want anyone questioning the CELESTIAL BEINGS.

http://www.piney.com/Bruce.Mclntyre.Hohenwald.html

Ken: Look around, maybe you can find some of Jesus' lost words which WOULDN'T FIT into the Bible but are now available to be HEARD AUDIBLY.
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