Hixson Church of Christ Chattanooga TN

Anonymous
Anonymous

November 26th, 2002, 5:34 pm #1

Using material from Willowcreek for Sunday School- 'Kingdom Kids'.This term "Kingdom Kids" also used for the kids classes in one of the largest Community churches in this area. Beginning to form small groups. Launching new building program. Bringing in Financial Management consultacy for members to train them to budget, and educate them about giving the church annuities etc. Remains to be seen what the actual plan of the church is, ultimately. The above only mentioned because these seem to be the kind of things that change first in the Community Church transition.
Quote
Share

Kenneth Sublett
Kenneth Sublett

November 26th, 2002, 9:32 pm #2

Having been suckered or scammed several times I have become as wise as an earthworm which "will not make the same mistake three times."

First, you need a contract: personal experiences have proven that the STATED purpose for sacrificial giving are rarely the HIDDEN agenda. Non-denominational simply means "we will take any widow's money."

Second, when you read WILLOW CREEK and AWESOME worship services you must understand that you are in the deep sump of the Church Growth Cult based on turning church from School of the Bible into "theater for holy entertainment."

The Willow Creek and Saddleback as the Purpose Driven Cult has the goal of radically reducing the children's exposure to the BIBLE as it has been taught and entertaining them to make them feel GOOD about themselves. If you look you may find instrumental music being sneaked into the CHILDREN'S MINISTRY and the YOUTH MINISTRY. In time this may be used as AUTHORITY for the collective worship.

Third, there is NOTHING identified as the church of Christ which can be accomplished by massive mega-temples designed to be theaters for performance preaching and performance music.

Fourth, you will begin to hear the TITHE word and you will understand that you have been transported back on the Jewish side of the Cross where JESUS paid all of your debts but to the poor and UNTAUGHT.

The FUND RAISING SCAMS are no different: the goal may be to TEACH you as at Madison that if you don't TITHE you may be cursed. However, a more civilized method is to get you into small groups and then alone to CLOSE THE DEAL and get you to sign a pledge card which they will deny is a PLEDGE card.

Fifth, Paul did not establish a LAW OF GIVING and therefor if they UP THE ANTE to cheat you of your needed fruit of YOUR work they are simply lying to you. The phrase "as you have prospered" does not mean "proportional and mandatory giving." Rather, it means in early church history that "those WHO have prospered should give to help those who are DESTITUTE." Pastor person leading you into Canaan Land does not qualify.

Sixth, Jesus paid the TEMPLE TAX and therefore you OWE nothing for buildings and grounds: Paul said that we have to go OUTSIDE THE CAMP to find Jesus so don't get scammed that you have to be here at 6:00 to meet and worship God by preaching MEDIATOR and MUSICAL MEDIATOR.

Seventh, the ONLY giving was to the destitute: people undergoing famine and not just a low salary.

Eighth, in 2 Cor 8-9 Paul DENIED that this was a LAW OF GIVING.

Ninth, the early churches so understood this and collected money from the PROSPEROUS only to give to those who were DESTITUTE ONLY. This was "only if they are willing." No one hit them in the face with a LAW OF GIVING.

Tenth, the Restoration Movement concurred that the elders and deacons HAVE NO AUTHORITY to impose a debt to put YOU under spiritual oppression unless the Elders have some Biblical authority for the PROJECT:

Alexander Campbell wrote:

"Contributions are made for the necessities of saints. The deacons are acquainted, and, through them, the whole fraternity, with the circumstances of all. Under its wise and wholesome discipline care is taken that every member CAPABLE of labor, work with his own hands, diligently at some honest calling. (Paul was speaking of the "many"preachers who work if they eat).

"The indolent, slothful, and bad economists are censured, admonished, and reformed, or excluded.

"The CONTRACTING of heavy and oppressive DEBTS is PROscribed. No brother is allowed to enthral himself or others in any sort of worldly speculations which incur either ANXIETY on his part or INCONVENIENCE to others. The AGED, FEEBLE, and HELPLESS are taken care of by the brethren.

"In this view of the deacon's office, we cannot but concur with the sayings and views of the primitive fathers who considered the deacons as the treasurers of the congregation, and as appointed to the service of tables, viz. the Lord's table, the poor's table, and the bishop's table."

Paul laid it down as a DIRECT COMMAND and an approved PATTERN that if the preacher will not work neither shall his TABLE be supplied: not even priests had more support than their FOOD.

So, when the LAW is laid on you like a lash please inform your friends that YOU have a spiritual duty to refuse to be put in DEBT for STRUCTURES and STAFF who increasingly are AGENTS of the instrumental churches and who have no qualms about stealing the church houses of WIDOWS. Since only driblets of the GIFTS TO GOD get to the POOR as His only "mouth" you need to direct your CONTRIBUTIONS directly to the poor: Christ died to FREE you from the LAW OF GIVING imposed by unlawful men.

KNOW them that labor among you: quickly, now!

Kenneth Sublett
Quote
Share

PL
PL

August 22nd, 2003, 5:04 pm #3

Using material from Willowcreek for Sunday School- 'Kingdom Kids'.This term "Kingdom Kids" also used for the kids classes in one of the largest Community churches in this area. Beginning to form small groups. Launching new building program. Bringing in Financial Management consultacy for members to train them to budget, and educate them about giving the church annuities etc. Remains to be seen what the actual plan of the church is, ultimately. The above only mentioned because these seem to be the kind of things that change first in the Community Church transition.
Please see http://www.hixsoncoc.com/H6%20Health.htm

I don't know how to make that into a 'link', sorry.
I visit this site from time to time to see what is new, and well, there are several things. The above sited article is by one of the several ministers, and refers to the Willowcreek 'strategy' for becoming a mega church, a church that just doesn't do some things well, but EVERYTHING well. Guess they are going by the book- the church growth handbook, that is.

The author of thse articles is the son of the 'involvement' minister at another congregation in Chattanooga, East Brainerd, another one to watch. These two men are not from around here. Don't know where they came from. East Brainerd has many many members who are heavily involved in one way or another in the only Church of Christ School in this town, ie an abundance of staff, as well as the administration and some board members. I hope this doesn't extend to the school, but I worry about it.

I find this man's articles appalling and much more suited to running a business that being a minister of the church.Right or wrong, this congregation at least fits the descritption of what this site is about. It LOOKS like a duck.......

Last edited by ConcernedMembers on August 27th, 2003, 10:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Quote
Share

Kenneth Sublett
Kenneth Sublett

August 23rd, 2003, 12:24 am #4

Yes, there's trouble in River City. The Willow Creek or Saddleback is clearly a CULT. The emphasis is to "INFILTRATE AND DIVERT." The goal is to turn your "church" as synagogue or school of the Bible into a "theater for holy entertainment." They PRETEND to take surveys but the ARE NOT SURVEYS.

The SCAM is to make the changes and get into a good financial situation before they tell the weeping widows having thieves steal their "church houses," Say, hay! I know that it hurts but WE GOTTA do our thing. The stated method is to make them think that they are on a train to Atlanta. But, say, we gonna switch tracks and send them to Nashville. Sure, it goona hurt but we we are the leaders of the Cult.

The old founding members will find themselves as OUTSIDERS or complementarians. Before they can get into the inner circle at Willow Creek even old elders have to "willingly submit to the eldership of women." Only if you are willing to drink Jonestown Koolaid will you ever get into the INNER CIRCLE. This is like a tower of Babylon looking from above. The CLERGY with NO AUTHORITY from God are at the TOP. The rest, yes poor widows, will have to struggle up the steps with the new MUSICAL WORSHIP TEAM "leading them into the presence of the gods." This replaces Jesus as the One and only Mediator.

If you expect to get to the top of the pyramid or "pitcher's mound" you must know that the collection plate is at the TOP level. Something like a marketing scheme.

The way to make the CHURCH GROWTH CULT operate you have to organize every waking moment and have the STAFF INFECTION plan for YOU--and of course pay them too.

Mellor's Madness is here: don't try this with Netscape, Their net page is as complicated as their SCHEME OR SCAM.

http://www.hixsoncoc.com/H6%20Health.htm

I did something like that for a Christian School once and an older, wiser board member said: "I sure pray that God has a juvenile court."

Here is a review of ACU's scam to train parasites:

http://www.piney.com/ACU-OSBURN.html

Osburn says: "If we are to have a truly significant impact upon the national and international scene,
faculties of religion must play leading PROPHETIC roles in CHANNELING and facilitating whatever changes loom ahead.

The problem is that when you let Jesus sweep out your "house" and you let one DEMON back in, they bring in legions of bonding buddies for whom they do WPA or Works Patronage Actors.

Jesus fired them and Paul took away the dole for even evangelists: if they will not work neither shall they eat. This absolutely fits the pattern for the church named after CIRCE the holy whore by which John warned us in the book of Revelation. She poisons with music and magical enchantments. She then uses her new ministers by turning them into swine. Then she occupies her total time and resources MAKING DUNG PATTYCAKES for her "CONGREGATION." When she goes back into HELL in Revelation 18 her singers, craftsmen and musicians will go back with her.

I will show you what Jesus and Paul meant: all super apostles trained in the Greek theater such as "rhetoricians, sOPHISts, singers and musicians" were SECTARIANS: They belonged to the SECT of the hypocrites along with the Pharisees and Scribes. In the Greek they are defined as the SORCERERS and were ALL identified as PARASITES. A guitarist is synonomous with the word PARASITE. A sOPHISt is the SERPENT of Revelation and the MUSICAL ENCHANTER in the garden of Eden.

Jesus CAST out one such "musical worship team" who wanted to do HIS work, "more or less violently" as one "casts out DUNG." I will show you that the MINISTERY LEADERS of Athens and many cities controlled the FLUTE-GIRLS who were always prostitutes as well as the cemetary and the DUNG HEAP. A spiritual prostitute sells their BODY under the guise of being MINISTERS.

None of this has the REMOTEST connection to the Christian synagogue which was "a school of the Bible." However, the colleges had to TAKE IN doctors of the Law to become universities. Then they had to MAKE A PLACE for them in the MAINSTREAM by claiming that you cannot be a church until you catch STAFF INFECTION.

You will find out that the GROWTH will come through MUSIC which in ALL pagan temples was the role of PROSTITUTES or SODOMITES. The CONTRIBUTION growth will teach the Christ-denying lie that you must TITHE to pay for the MINISTERS who are priests and musicians.

They will win because the MUSES who had been turned into LOCUSTS in the Legends of John's Patmos world will be resurrected by Apollo or Abaddon or Apollyon. Their task is to DRIVE AWAY those with the MARK of the Word. They then PUNISH those with the MARK of Lucifer's music until Jesus comes. Sure, THEIR music produces a drug high which is addictive. Each weak they will STING with their scorpion tails. They will MAINLINE endorphins or "morphine" which creates the effect of FIGHT, FLIGHT AND SEXUALITY. That is why God may be driving the tiny, faithful few OUTSIDE the gates which is the only place Jesus meets the diminishingly-small REMNANT.

REJOICE AND BE GLAD BECAUSE THE TIME AND THE SIGNS GIVE ME GREAT HAPPINESS. Next year, the right time, the Pythian (serpent) games will have APOLLO (Abaddon, Apollyon) and Athena- the holy whore as mascots.
The Hixsonites will be BURDEN LADED by some dishonest "minister turned master" which is "spiritual anxiety created by religious rituals." They are riding tandem on the backs of widows and the working poor: Cast them out.

As the comming TITHE is a Christ- Denying lie, the LAW OF GIVING is also a SCAM even when Paul said that it was not a command. The thing members MUST DO is to withhold their "contribution" or "taxes." The world still considers such men as PARASITES. Pull them off your backs and become a CHURCH or synagogue of Christ.

Ken Sublett

Quote
Share

PL
PL

August 27th, 2003, 4:44 pm #5

Please see http://www.hixsoncoc.com/H6%20Health.htm

I don't know how to make that into a 'link', sorry.
I visit this site from time to time to see what is new, and well, there are several things. The above sited article is by one of the several ministers, and refers to the Willowcreek 'strategy' for becoming a mega church, a church that just doesn't do some things well, but EVERYTHING well. Guess they are going by the book- the church growth handbook, that is.

The author of thse articles is the son of the 'involvement' minister at another congregation in Chattanooga, East Brainerd, another one to watch. These two men are not from around here. Don't know where they came from. East Brainerd has many many members who are heavily involved in one way or another in the only Church of Christ School in this town, ie an abundance of staff, as well as the administration and some board members. I hope this doesn't extend to the school, but I worry about it.

I find this man's articles appalling and much more suited to running a business that being a minister of the church.Right or wrong, this congregation at least fits the descritption of what this site is about. It LOOKS like a duck.......
http://www.hixsoncoc.com/H6%20Health.htm
Last edited by ConcernedMembers on August 27th, 2003, 10:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Quote
Share

Glen Gray
Glen Gray

September 24th, 2003, 1:57 pm #6

Please see http://www.hixsoncoc.com/H6%20Health.htm

I don't know how to make that into a 'link', sorry.
I visit this site from time to time to see what is new, and well, there are several things. The above sited article is by one of the several ministers, and refers to the Willowcreek 'strategy' for becoming a mega church, a church that just doesn't do some things well, but EVERYTHING well. Guess they are going by the book- the church growth handbook, that is.

The author of thse articles is the son of the 'involvement' minister at another congregation in Chattanooga, East Brainerd, another one to watch. These two men are not from around here. Don't know where they came from. East Brainerd has many many members who are heavily involved in one way or another in the only Church of Christ School in this town, ie an abundance of staff, as well as the administration and some board members. I hope this doesn't extend to the school, but I worry about it.

I find this man's articles appalling and much more suited to running a business that being a minister of the church.Right or wrong, this congregation at least fits the descritption of what this site is about. It LOOKS like a duck.......
Dear Mr. Sublett,

I am the Involvement Minister at the East Brainerd congregation. I have no son, though I have often wanted one. Research is vital -- hearsay can be dangerous. I have been at EBCC for the past six and a half years. As in any aggressive evangelistic work, there are going to be some who are converted to Christ that still have lots of growing to do. Some will want to "bring in" elements of denominationalism that cannot be part of the worship or work of the body of Christ. They should be and can be taught in a loving manner. I agree with you that some things being promoted in other congregations are dangerous and unbiblical. That is not the case at East Brainerd. I consider myself very conservative when it comes to the Scripture, but very liberal when it comes to traditions and human opinion. Be careful that you do not get the two confused.
There are elements of "church growth" which cannot be used, must not be used in and by the body of Christ. But any discerning eldership or preacher of the gospel should be able to "weed out" those things while still using those elements that are beneficial and do not violate Scripture.
You have indicated in your writing that Boyd-Buchanan administrators and teachers are being contaminated by associated with the EBC. What do you mean? Do you have anything in mind? Or is this just a fallacious accusation without support to incite doubt and confidence in the Lord's church?
I would like to read your response and I'm looking forward to hearing from you.

Glen Gray
Quote
Share

Kenneth Sublett
Kenneth Sublett

September 25th, 2003, 12:50 am #7

Dear Mr. Sublett,

Glen Gray: I am the Involvement Minister at the East Brainerd congregation. I have no son, though I have often wanted one.

Ken: That's good: I don't know you and didn't say anything about your son!

Glen Gray: Research is vital -- hearsay can be dangerous. I have been at EBCC for the past six and a half years. As in any AGGRESSIVE evangelistic work, there are going to be some who are converted to Christ that still have lots of growing to do. Some will want to "bring in" elements of denominationalism that cannot be part of the worship or work of the body of Christ. They should be and can be taught in a loving manner. I agree with you that some things being promoted in other congregations are dangerous and unbiblical.

Ken: That's good: I didn't say anything against love. The problem may be REJECTION of a foreign organ. The church exist as a SYNAGOGUE OF CHRIST to meet weekly for worship which is GIVING HEED to the Word and not the performers. The church HAS NO AGGRESSIVE genes. It sends out EVANGELISTS (Not "located travelling salesmen") to DISCIPLE or Teach the Word. Paul solved the DIVERSE BACKGROUND in Romans 15 by defining church as a NOT FOR PRODUCING EXCITEMENT OR PLEASURE and for speaking WITH ONE MIND and ONE MOUTH "that which is written by the Spirit of Christ."

Glen Gray: That is not the case at East Brainerd. I consider myself very conservative when it comes to the Scripture, but very liberal when it comes to TRADITIONS and human opinion. Be careful that you do not get the two confused.

Ken: I don't know what you do at East Brainerd, didn't say that you were liberal about Scripture. Said nothing about your church. The issue was brought up by one of YOUR members, not me. The growth speech sounds just like others who will DO ANYTHING in their words to gain "converts." I identified what to look for: if it doesn't fit you then it fits the thousands of others who may want to know what is going on in their church. I don't know why doing anything scriptural would cause you troubles.

Do you consider NOT using choirs traditional? Do you believe that instrumental music is ok to attract outsiders? Most "professionals" "pass through college" and wind up pretty ignorant of the meaning of Scripture and its historical background.

Glen Gray: There are elements of "church growth" which cannot be used, must not be used in and by the body of Christ. But any discerning eldership or preacher of the gospel should be able to "weed out" those things while still using those elements that are beneficial and do not violate Scripture.

Ken: CHURCH GROUTH IS A CULT: it has no role in the Synagogue of Christ. Many other church elders are using their wisdom to declare that the Bible "does not say don't use instruments so we are going to use them." When it comes to choirs or "musical worship teams" (heretical in its terminology) or instrumental music the cant SEE, HEAR or SPEAK anything against instruments. I say that they are Biblically illiterate. If that isn't what is causing the trouble then I didn't address you our your church.

It is LEGALISTIC and non-Christian to decide to do something which has never been approved and declare that it is ok because it DOES NOT VIOLATE SCRIPTURE. Those who have been offended may have a deeper understanding about what Scripture SAYS. The elders are NEVER command leaders: Jesus modeled the SON by speaking only what He heard from the FATHER who was with Him. Paul circumscribed the role of the elders by demanding that "THEY TEACH THAT WHICH HAS BEEN TAUGHT" AND REBUKE "THOSE WHO OPPOSE IT." No human elder has any DECIDING role about doing something they feel OK because not LEGALISTICALLY CONDEMNED. The church is the EKKLESIA or Synagogue of Christ: it is more A School of the Bible than pagan worship center. Paul's UNIQUE worship word means to GIVE HEED to the Word and to Christ. The CHURCH is not an EVANGELISM TOOL and it has no Scriptural staff such as OUTREACH MINISTER. This usurps the role of the body and especially the Deacons who have the same OUTREACH teaching authority and responsibility as the elders. The definition of the word Deacon means that they are the MINISTERS of the flock and history proves that they filled this role with NO WAGED roles available in the local congregation. Perhaps, the problem is that you have edged into an unlawful role, demanded a WAGE from the people, assume COMMAND LEADERSHIP over them and resent it when the OWNERS dare question the hirelings.

Glen Gray: You have indicated in your writing that Boyd-Buchanan administrators and teachers are being contaminated by associated with the EBC. What do you mean? Do you have anything in mind? Or is this just a fallacious accusation without support to incite doubt and confidence in the Lord's church?

Ken: I HAVE NOT: This is the first use of Boyd-Buchanan in this forum: you mentioned it. I have said nothing about Boyd-Buchanan, its leadership or its connection. Better go back and read again.

Glen Gray: I would like to read your response and I'm looking forward to hearing from you.

Ken: here it is and you have been a false accuser on every point. What do you hope to gain by this when every reader can see that it is false? The guilt clause is to try to shift the blame. You may want to explain in detail what YOU are doing to cause the pain. If you are above the old TRADITIONS then you can solve your churches problem by defining what WE are doing which is just TRADITION. And please explain why the explosion of STAFF JOBS when there is not a SINGLE role in the church to tempt those "who see godliness as a means of financial gain." That doesn't mean greedy: that means "seeing godliness as a means of OCCUPATION." The BODY of Christ has no professional OR ARTIFICIAL MINDS OR HEARTS which assume the role of forcing the peaceable kingdom into PRODUCING more PRODUCT to pay for the artificial MIND or SPIRIT which used to be Jesus Christ.

I think being officious "to eat up widow's houses" and the "inventing new doctrine, like the Pharisees, specifically to silence the Word of God" is the RIPE BOIL in man congregations and you must praise God that they do not let their PLEADING for help cause them to go to the courts to pry off the BURDEN LADERS using the widows and hard working people like pack animals rather than obey the GO for the honest evangelist.

Most families have two wage earners and then find that they cannot send their kids to college. If you would, like Paul's direct command and approved example, you could MINISTER to them by NOT taking their bread.

If the LAW OF GIVING does not exist and Paul would call ours EXTORTION then just how do the ELDERS get the money to do something THEY are not qualified to do. Thomas Campbell said that they HAVE NO AUTHORITY to add burdens which INCREASES THE ANXIETY of the local body of Bible students.

Ken Sublett
Quote
Share

glen gray
glen gray

September 25th, 2003, 9:13 pm #8

Dear Mr. Sublett,

Well, I guess you told me!

Now I see the way you get your information. You don't read. You make it up. And you have a hobby to propogate, but not the gospel of Christ.

I pray that your love for Christ will grow.

This will end our discussion, which has not been much.

Glen
Quote
Share

Kenneth Sublett
Kenneth Sublett

September 26th, 2003, 6:52 pm #9

I simply tried to CORRECT your lying about me from beginning to end. I gues that ends the conversation but you are the one with the BURDEN which needs to be repented of.

I said NONE of those things you said about me: is that disgraceful? Yet, I know that one must not refute the burden laders even when they are wrong. Just which part did I MAKE UP? You are bound to answer why you made up those things which I am supposed to have said.

Are you one of those Shelly types preaching postmodernism where TAKING LIBERTIES WITH THE TRUTH is not lying?

It still is and you should go back and determine where you got me saying all of those things.

Is opposing MUSICAL WORSHIP TEAMS (the ultimate oxymoron) just one of our TRADITIONS. Your paymasters are waiting.

Is not using INSTRUMENTAL MUSIC one of the traditions you refuse to honor? Your paymasters will want to know. It takes just a few words (no, I won't pay you) to explain the TRADITIONS of the churchof Christ. I fell that that is the CAUSE of the trouble.

Is organizing the church by laying on BURDENS Jesus lifted one of the new traditions. If there is trouble over there maybe we can ferret it out. You MUST stand up and give an answer.

Ken
Quote
Share

pl
pl

October 1st, 2003, 2:18 pm #10

According to the East Brainerd church of Christ website, the Evangelism and Missions minister is Dave Mellor. His son, Nathan Mellor is the minister at Hixson Church of Christ. Sorry for the ministry title mixup.
Quote
Share