Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

January 21st, 2012, 3:50 am #51

Historically a cappella churches with instrumental services returned to national directory

http://www.christianchronicle.org/blog/ ... directory/

This should remove any appearance of a HQ exclusion from "Churches of Christ in the United States", published by 21st Century Christian.

Good, unifying move, 21st Century Christian. It is a pity this website promotes division rather than unity.
I posted the following at the Chronicle's blog on Dec. 7, 2011, and I just lost it [... i.e., the HTML code]. So, here it is luckily published:

______________________________

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Historically, among other points of doctrinal differences, the Disciples of Christ/Christian Church has separated itself from the church of Christ because of the issue concerning the mechanical operation of inanimate, lifeless musical devices in the assembly of saints.

The directory was reporting it correctly [statistically, of course] in the past. The "subgroups" were "within churches of Christ only." But instrumental music is such a major religious issue and as we know it was the primary reason for the separation of the two bodies in the religious census of 1906.

Since the 2012 directory of churches of Christ (also "historically" known as a directory of "a cappella" churches of Christ) has reversed its decision to now include "instrumental worship" churches, I would suggest a code or a combination of codes [might as well] for each of the following:

[/color]
  • That the directory should now include Disciples of Christ/Christian Church "instrumental" congregations;
    </li>
  • Former name of the church (e.g., Oak Hills Church [formerly "of Christ"]);
    </li>
  • Former church of Christ congregation that now identifies itself or is affiliated with the Disciples/Christian Church;
    </li>
  • Former church of Christ congregation transformed into a Community Church;
    </li>
  • Former church of Christ congregation now associated with the Willow Creek Association of Community Churches;
    </li>
  • Congregation that has deaconesses;
    </li>
  • Congregation that has women teaching MEN and women;
    </li>
  • Congregation that has a Praise Team ("progressive Church of Christ" CHOIR);
    </li>
  • etc.</li>
What's next?
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

January 21st, 2012, 4:20 am #52


Hebrews 10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
Hebrews 10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
Hebrews 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
Hebrews 10:21 And having an high priest over the house of God;
Hebrews 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
Hebrews 10:23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)
Hebrews 10:24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
Hebrews 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

Jesus has repudiated the Jewish system where all of the performing arts were at the CORNER STONE or the secret place where only on-duty sons of Aaron were permitted to attend or "perform"

Jesus has spoken OPENLY in the Synagogues and in the temple court "of the Jews."

The "assembly" which almost all churches have forsaken is called the synagogue which, including the ekklesia, excluded all of the market-place religious temples.

The REST and the church defined by the TRUE RESTORATION MOVEMENT was that:

Church was A School of Christ
Worship was READING and Musing the Word of God.

Those who construct "worship services" of performing preachers and performing musicians HAVE DEFACTO forsaken the pattern of the Synagogue. They CANNOT be A Church of Christ and I have noted that the INSTITUTION is removed by Christ at the same time the rhetoricians, performance singers and instrument players are removed along with the LAMPS. They will NEVER get their little lamps to shine again.

PROOF THAT CM IS ON THE RIGHT TRACK.

There is a Divine command that these "Locusts" give a reason for the hope they have.
The have not and WILL NOT answer any posting of Biblical text. That is why those called "Scholars" will never refute what they know cannot be refuted. They confess their own lack of spiritual knowledge.

As for as CM rebuking those who are INTENTIONAL false "angels"

Ephesians 5:9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)
Ephesians 5:10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.
Ephesians 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.


The UNFRUITFUL works of SKIA is repeating any thing in the Law of the Monarchy as a "patternism" for what they call "worship services." All of the musicators APPEAL to the darkness of Instrumental Exorcism where the Levites were "soothsayers with instrumental noise" since instruments have no "breath" as Donnie has noted.
<blockquote><blockquote>


</blockquote></blockquote>
Christ in Isaiah said that Israel's covenant was with DEATH: the only spiritual covenant was made to Abraham by God in Christ and it had no performance staff.

There is NO command to hold a private hearing for a public false teacher:

aiskhros ,
disgrace, put to shame, muthon e. treat a speech with contempt, tina put one to shame,

II. cross-examine, question, accuse one of doing, 2 test, bring to the proof,
4. refute, confute, b. put right, correct, prove by a reductio ad impossibile 5. get the better of betray a weakness,


ANY preacher who ignores the Direct Command to PREACH the word by READING the Word in context and pointing out any doctrinal content to COMFORT the "school" HAS forsaken the Assembly of Christ. That's why the "conservatives" break your knee caps and refuse to give an answer as to why THEY are fleeching the widows and preaching out of their own head:that is what Jesus called a Scribe or Pharisee, hypocrite.

We have noted that Rick Atchley confessed what we have been saying for two decades: they collected the youth at Winterfest and other gatherings and plied them with lots of instrumental "worship music." And we taught them to LEAVE OUR MOVEMENT. If the Gospel Advocate includes them as an "a cappella church of Christ" we know the meaning.
Last edited by Donnie.Cruz on February 19th, 2012, 7:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

January 21st, 2012, 8:53 pm #53

Historically a cappella churches with instrumental services returned to national directory

http://www.christianchronicle.org/blog/ ... directory/

This should remove any appearance of a HQ exclusion from "Churches of Christ in the United States", published by 21st Century Christian.

Good, unifying move, 21st Century Christian. It is a pity this website promotes division rather than unity.
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Here's an interesting response to the unhistorical "church directory" addition of Disciples/Christian Church-leaning or Community Church-transformed churches debate.[/color]
Jack Gillils said:

Does having services on Sat. nite change anything? Why can't we do what the bible says and let it be. Sad part is that these Big guys think no one can read the bible and understand it, some other churches do. May God forgive us. The next 52yrs and the church will like the Dark ages. Romans 14:12. Quit trying to be like the world.

# 6 December 2011 at 12:52 pm

[cf. The Christian Chronicle blog]
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

January 21st, 2012, 9:10 pm #54

Historically a cappella churches with instrumental services returned to national directory

http://www.christianchronicle.org/blog/ ... directory/

This should remove any appearance of a HQ exclusion from "Churches of Christ in the United States", published by 21st Century Christian.

Good, unifying move, 21st Century Christian. It is a pity this website promotes division rather than unity.
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Yes, the Christian Church left us. The very few churches of Christ that employ instrumental worship should leave the church peacefully, and not cause division in the congregation. For example, the Hills Church of Christ [or sometimes simply "The Hills Church"], formerly the Richland Hills Church of Christ, should find means to merge with the Disciples/Christian Church in that community.[/color]
Johnny D. Hinton said:

This reversal is a big mistake. They left us just like the Christian church over 100 years ago. The instrument is only an outward symptom of much deeper differences on how the Bible authorizes.

# 6 December 2011 at 5:39 pm

[cf. The Christian Chronicle blog]
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

January 21st, 2012, 10:35 pm #55

You remember the GRACE-CENTERED concept actually confesses that WE ARE SINNING but Grace will cover up the bad smell. Those who know that GRACE teaches us to resist such things as lying about God and To God are cursed with all of the RACA words for not letting the juvenile delinquents crap on our floor.

The NACC has always promoted the MANTRA that Churches of Christ sected out of them when they must know that the Christian Church was part of the Disciples of Christ sect until slowly secting out from 1927 to 1971. At the same time the Churches of Christ were never "unioned" with the Diaciples/Christians as they claim in 1832. In 1834 Campbell DENIED it. Yet, they still use the same old lie because it is a psychological weapon they can use to bestow a guilt complex and force churches of Christ to repent, confess and begin using what is always the MARK that God "has been there and gone."

Quote
Like
Share

Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

January 22nd, 2012, 6:11 am #56

Historically a cappella churches with instrumental services returned to national directory

http://www.christianchronicle.org/blog/ ... directory/

This should remove any appearance of a HQ exclusion from "Churches of Christ in the United States", published by 21st Century Christian.

Good, unifying move, 21st Century Christian. It is a pity this website promotes division rather than unity.
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Most of the early responses to the church directory debate have been from those who love the truth. (Yes, we will be posting messages from those who love the trumpet and tambourines "enhancing worship.")[/color]
Andrew Norris said:

I am very disappointed in Mr. Roysters decision. I was very proud when he decided to stand for the truth in leaving the instrumental people out of the brotherhood. A brotherhood that was once proud for standing for the truth instead of packing pews.

For those that have instruments in the church, I have one question, where is your Biblical backing for having instruments?

Where do you have the authority to add what God has said? We are now no better than the denominational world, a world that we tried so desperately to separate from, so we can be just Christians only.

This is a sad day for a brotherhood I was once proud of, that once stood for truth and not tolerance with sacrificing Gods law.

# 7 December 2011 at 8:04 am

[cf. The Christian Chronicle blog.]
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

January 24th, 2012, 2:36 am #57

Historically a cappella churches with instrumental services returned to national directory

http://www.christianchronicle.org/blog/ ... directory/

This should remove any appearance of a HQ exclusion from "Churches of Christ in the United States", published by 21st Century Christian.

Good, unifying move, 21st Century Christian. It is a pity this website promotes division rather than unity.
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]OK. "Fair and balanced" reporting. Dave, Fred, Sonny, et al, have found a friend in Chris. [Know what? This sounds just like the Chris that has posted here quite a few times before. I'm just guessing, alright?] Now, we've heard these arguments before and often. But, let's review them again.[/color]
Chris said:

This is great news! A step toward unity.isn't that what the restoration movement is suppose to be all about?

I understand that some of you want to argue that accapella is a center piece of the Church of Christ. And, it has been a huge part of our heritage (in most regions). However, isn't autonomy SUPPOSED to be a bigger part? There is a Biblical model of church leadership that has LOCAL elders and leadership deciding what is best for the worship of God in their own community. Since the Bible never condemns the use of instrument, how can we say that they shouldn't be used by another congregation? Think about some of the things that we get really "wrong" as a movement if the only example to follow comes from the Bible:

-Ownership of church buildings
-Lord's Supper is terribly wrong in practice (passing trays, really????), place (should be in homes), and content (grape juice and no wine?).
-Women's roles (By Paul's account to Timothy they shouldn't be talking in Bible class. On the flip side, there should be women serving as deacons according to his letter to Romans and sharing prophecies and prayers in Corinth)
-4 part harmony
-Use of song books or projector
-Hired ministry staff
-Failure to sell all that we have an give it to one another
-We don't meet "every day"
-We don't speak in tongues

I could go on and on. And, I know that many of you will pardon our differences from the New Testament on most of these areas because we have well verses responses to them. But, the point is, we look NOTHING like the NT church, NOTHING. However, we continue to do many of these things without regard for those differences. Sometimes those differences from the NT are out of mere convenience. Other times, they are because we are trying to present the gospel to the world around us and recognize that the current world is much different than the one of 2000 years ago. Why make this the one issue that everyone has to get right be considered part of our movement? Should we start kicking churches out for other things that don't match our heritage?

Let's not be like the Pharisees.the only group that Jesus absolutely despised in the Bible.

# 7 December 2011 at 11:43 pm

[cf. The Christian Chronicle blog.]
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

January 24th, 2012, 11:32 pm #58

It is not possible to be a Disciple of Christ (prophets and apostles) and say that God did not radically condemn using instruments-machines for doing hard work-because they showed a blasphemous attitude toward the word of God the exclusive resource for A School of the Word. Furthermore, in the Bible and other literature instruments are called sorcery or witchcraft because they were ALWAYS used to unfairly manipulate the minds of the "audience" so that they COULD not give heed (the only worship concept) to God's word but THEIR Body and Voice and Machines.

By definition a Pharisee is a hypocrite who writes his/her own "scripture" in song and sermon and SELL it as the Word of God.


Quote
Like
Share

Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

January 31st, 2012, 10:22 am #59

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]True -- "most of these guys can't read." Maybe, these guys can learn from this evangelist.[/color]
Evangelist Mojima Etokudo said:

It is good we call the Bible thing in name and also do the Bible thing in a Bible way.

If we are worshiping God today through Jesus Christ, we should not allow our educational attainment to lead us astray.

If God says sing unto me with your lips, do just that taking note of Rev 22:18,19.

Using micro phone in the church does not mean cymbals etc.

So I thank those who consider the changes Necessary to make our worship true.

Remember John 12:48


# 9 December 2011 at 9:48 am

SOURCE: The Christian Chronicle blog
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

February 5th, 2012, 9:11 pm #60

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]OK. "Fair and balanced" reporting. Dave, Fred, Sonny, et al, have found a friend in Chris. [Know what? This sounds just like the Chris that has posted here quite a few times before. I'm just guessing, alright?] Now, we've heard these arguments before and often. But, let's review them again.[/color]
Chris said:

This is great news! A step toward unity.isn't that what the restoration movement is suppose to be all about?

I understand that some of you want to argue that accapella is a center piece of the Church of Christ. And, it has been a huge part of our heritage (in most regions). However, isn't autonomy SUPPOSED to be a bigger part? There is a Biblical model of church leadership that has LOCAL elders and leadership deciding what is best for the worship of God in their own community. Since the Bible never condemns the use of instrument, how can we say that they shouldn't be used by another congregation? Think about some of the things that we get really "wrong" as a movement if the only example to follow comes from the Bible:

-Ownership of church buildings
-Lord's Supper is terribly wrong in practice (passing trays, really????), place (should be in homes), and content (grape juice and no wine?).
-Women's roles (By Paul's account to Timothy they shouldn't be talking in Bible class. On the flip side, there should be women serving as deacons according to his letter to Romans and sharing prophecies and prayers in Corinth)
-4 part harmony
-Use of song books or projector
-Hired ministry staff
-Failure to sell all that we have an give it to one another
-We don't meet "every day"
-We don't speak in tongues

I could go on and on. And, I know that many of you will pardon our differences from the New Testament on most of these areas because we have well verses responses to them. But, the point is, we look NOTHING like the NT church, NOTHING. However, we continue to do many of these things without regard for those differences. Sometimes those differences from the NT are out of mere convenience. Other times, they are because we are trying to present the gospel to the world around us and recognize that the current world is much different than the one of 2000 years ago. Why make this the one issue that everyone has to get right be considered part of our movement? Should we start kicking churches out for other things that don't match our heritage?

Let's not be like the Pharisees.the only group that Jesus absolutely despised in the Bible.

# 7 December 2011 at 11:43 pm

[cf. The Christian Chronicle blog.]
Here's my response to Chris:
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Chris,

No, this is bad news. This is like history repeating itself -- it's the 1906 religious census over again, a split group within churches of Christ: (a) a cappella VERSUS (b) instrumental music worshippers. That certainly is not a Restoration Movement principle of unity.

What about this type of unity:[/color]
<ol>[*][color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Allow instrumental music lovers operate their mechanical devices in a cappella churches of Christ
-------------------------------- AND --------------------------------[/color]
</li>[*][color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Allow churches of Christ to remove those inanimate, lifeless musical devices from the Disciples of Christ/Christian Churches?[/color]</li>[/list]
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]The elders are supposed to teach members that which they have been taught, and not be influenced by culture-driven schemes, approaches and methodologies to "grow the church." They (the elders) are responsible leaders of the congregation and should be held accountable when division occurs due to issues such as instrumental music in the assembly.

By the way, you forgot to add to your list: the kitchen sink, indoor/outdoor toilets, A/C, carpet and pews -- all of which and other conveniences have nothing to do with the issue of playing musical instruments in the gathering of saints. It's comparing apples and oranges.

Knowing or learning or speaking the truth is not Pharisaical.[/color]

Source: The Christian Chronicle Blog
Quote
Like
Share