Historically a cappella churches with instrumental services returned

Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

December 20th, 2011, 10:36 pm #31

Historically a cappella churches with instrumental services returned to national directory

http://www.christianchronicle.org/blog/ ... directory/

This should remove any appearance of a HQ exclusion from "Churches of Christ in the United States", published by 21st Century Christian.

Good, unifying move, 21st Century Christian. It is a pity this website promotes division rather than unity.

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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

December 20th, 2011, 10:59 pm #32

Ken, therein lies the problem....you can tell me over and over again, but wrong yesterday is still wrong today.

More later....
Dave you are our approved example: why else listen to the tick-tocks?

Christ was sent to seek LOST SPIRITS: those who have been taken captive will GLADLY hear the Word of God. Jesus didn't send REAL soul seekers out to BATCH AND HATCH cuckoo eggs.
Those who take souls captive use the witchcraft of music. Christ, in the prophets said

Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me. Isa 6:8

And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not. Isa 6:9

Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes/b>
<font color="#FFFFFF">....
lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears,
....and understand with their heart,
....and convert, and be healed. Isa 6:10

Then said I, Lord, how long? And he answered, Until the cities be wasted without inhabitant,
.... and the houses without man, and the land be utterly desolate, Isa 6:11

And the Lord have removed men far away, and there be a great forsaking in the midst of the land. Isa 6:12
Isa 6:13 <b>But yet in it shall be a tenth
and it shall return, and shall be eaten: as a teil tree, and as an oak, whose substance is in them, when they cast their leaves: so the holy seed shall be the substance thereof.</b>


Jesus called the Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites by quoting this. In Ezekiel 33 Christ called them speakers, singers and instrument players. Music MEANS to make the lambs dumb before the slaughter.

Mt 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?

Mt 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

Mt 13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.

Mt 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables:
....because they seeing see not;
....and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

Mt 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias,
....which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand;
....and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

Mt 13:16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

Mt 13:17 For verily I say unto you,
....That many prophets and righteous men
....have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them;
....and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.


Don't boast about something over which you have no control.
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Dave
Dave

December 20th, 2011, 11:18 pm #33

Historically a cappella churches with instrumental services returned to national directory

http://www.christianchronicle.org/blog/ ... directory/

This should remove any appearance of a HQ exclusion from "Churches of Christ in the United States", published by 21st Century Christian.

Good, unifying move, 21st Century Christian. It is a pity this website promotes division rather than unity.
AM said "It does not mention abortion either."
And you call me shallow?
Luke 18
18 A certain ruler asked him, Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?
19 Why do you call me good? Jesus answered. No one is goodexcept God alone. 20 You know the commandments: You shall not commit adultery, you shall not murder, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, honor your father and mother.

Am, in verse 20 Jesus told the wealthy ruler that it was sinful to murder, yet you say that the sin isn't listed in the Scriptures. So maybe you are saying that abortion isn't murder. You are a card indeed.
AM, perhaps you could make the same ludicrous claim, as someone else used to do, that the Scriptures do not say that snorting cocaine is a sin either.

You also make a claim for unpaid preachers....
1 Corinthians 16
1 Now about the collection for the Lords people: Do what I told the Galatian churches to do. 2 On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with your income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made. 3 Then, when I arrive, I will give letters of introduction to the men you approve and send them with your gift to Jerusalem.

In verse 3 Am, what do you think Paul meant by "send them with your gift?"

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Dave
Dave

December 20th, 2011, 11:40 pm #34

Historically a cappella churches with instrumental services returned to national directory

http://www.christianchronicle.org/blog/ ... directory/

This should remove any appearance of a HQ exclusion from "Churches of Christ in the United States", published by 21st Century Christian.

Good, unifying move, 21st Century Christian. It is a pity this website promotes division rather than unity.
Ken, I always believed that you wanted everyone to know that you are the approved example, that you could only interpret the Word.
The problem is that you believe that your heart is the only one ready for the Word to be revealed to. You claim that those who disagree with you have had their ears shut. You use your Greek, and your Enoch, and Greek mythology to figure it all out. Christ tells you in Matthew 18:3
And he said: Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven."

Ken, He is telling everyone that for several reasons. It isn't in the learning, which we need (the Bereans studied and were thought to be noble for such-Acts 17:11), but in our Trusting in God and His Son. Becoming like children, Ken, means losing your arrogance.
So Ken, keep your nose up in the air feeling dignified about what you know, and see where it gets you in the end. If you can't convey the message of Love that Christ is all about....you need to take up woodworking, carving, or poetry instead.

2 Peter 3:16
He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.
John 5
39 You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, 40 yet you refuse to come to me to have life.
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AM
AM

December 21st, 2011, 5:38 am #35

AM said "It does not mention abortion either."
And you call me shallow?
Luke 18
18 A certain ruler asked him, Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?
19 Why do you call me good? Jesus answered. No one is goodexcept God alone. 20 You know the commandments: You shall not commit adultery, you shall not murder, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, honor your father and mother.

Am, in verse 20 Jesus told the wealthy ruler that it was sinful to murder, yet you say that the sin isn't listed in the Scriptures. So maybe you are saying that abortion isn't murder. You are a card indeed.
AM, perhaps you could make the same ludicrous claim, as someone else used to do, that the Scriptures do not say that snorting cocaine is a sin either.

You also make a claim for unpaid preachers....
1 Corinthians 16
1 Now about the collection for the Lords people: Do what I told the Galatian churches to do. 2 On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with your income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made. 3 Then, when I arrive, I will give letters of introduction to the men you approve and send them with your gift to Jerusalem.

In verse 3 Am, what do you think Paul meant by "send them with your gift?"
The secular world has no law against abortion. The secular world did not find a crime in betraying Christ. The secular world promotes unholy entertainment. All are wrong. The Spirit of God gives the direction when there is no verse to reference. He can help you too.
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B
B

December 21st, 2011, 6:59 am #36

AM said "It does not mention abortion either."
And you call me shallow?
Luke 18
18 A certain ruler asked him, Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?
19 Why do you call me good? Jesus answered. No one is goodexcept God alone. 20 You know the commandments: You shall not commit adultery, you shall not murder, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, honor your father and mother.

Am, in verse 20 Jesus told the wealthy ruler that it was sinful to murder, yet you say that the sin isn't listed in the Scriptures. So maybe you are saying that abortion isn't murder. You are a card indeed.
AM, perhaps you could make the same ludicrous claim, as someone else used to do, that the Scriptures do not say that snorting cocaine is a sin either.

You also make a claim for unpaid preachers....
1 Corinthians 16
1 Now about the collection for the Lords people: Do what I told the Galatian churches to do. 2 On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with your income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made. 3 Then, when I arrive, I will give letters of introduction to the men you approve and send them with your gift to Jerusalem.

In verse 3 Am, what do you think Paul meant by "send them with your gift?"
Earlier, Dave said:

"By the way, where does Christ or any of the authors list instrumental music as sinful?
Galatians 5
19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Look hard, Donnie, but it aint there."


So Dave is telling us that because the list of certain sins in Galatians 5 fails to include IM, then IM is not sinful. Dave also mentioned cocaine. By Dave's reasoning, since Galatians 5 also fails to include snorting cocaine, then cocaine is not sinful, right?

Discerning readers will know that the New Testament does not list every conceivable sin by name. The New Testament expects us to take its general teachings and apply them to our lives and worship. Therefore, we know that illicit use of cocaine is sinful, because it harms the body. The New Testament tells us that our bodies are the temple of God; if we defile that temple by deliberately hariming our bodies, then we sin (1 Cor. 3 and 6).

So what about IM? Is it not sinful because it's not included in Galatian 5's list? The New Testament also tells us that we are not to go above what is written therein (1 Cor. 4:6), meaning that we may not add to or take from what God has already commanded in the New Testament (Rev. 22) as far as doctrinal matters are concerned. Since God addressed worship music in Eph. 5:19 and Col. 3:16, it is a doctrinal matter. God told us to sing and make melody in our hearts. That is, God told us to incorporate vocal music into our worship. Now if we add another kind of music--that made with mechanical instruments instead of the human voice alone--then we sin. Must God tell us not to use IM when He has already told us to use vocal music? NO. His very directive to use vocal music precludes every other form of music. In addition to the drug that he prescribes for a patient, must a doctor also specify on the prescription all other drugs that the pharmacist may NOT dispense? That would be ludicrous. It's just as ludicrous for people to say that, with each command, God MUST include everything that is forbidden, and if He doesn't, we may supplement His commands as we wish, because God didn't say not to.

Remember that "God didn't say not to" is a figment of man's imagination; it cannot be found anywhere in the New Testament.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

December 21st, 2011, 3:36 pm #37

Ken, I always believed that you wanted everyone to know that you are the approved example, that you could only interpret the Word.
The problem is that you believe that your heart is the only one ready for the Word to be revealed to. You claim that those who disagree with you have had their ears shut. You use your Greek, and your Enoch, and Greek mythology to figure it all out. Christ tells you in Matthew 18:3
And he said: Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven."

Ken, He is telling everyone that for several reasons. It isn't in the learning, which we need (the Bereans studied and were thought to be noble for such-Acts 17:11), but in our Trusting in God and His Son. Becoming like children, Ken, means losing your arrogance.
So Ken, keep your nose up in the air feeling dignified about what you know, and see where it gets you in the end. If you can't convey the message of Love that Christ is all about....you need to take up woodworking, carving, or poetry instead.

2 Peter 3:16
He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.
John 5
39 You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, 40 yet you refuse to come to me to have life.
NOW concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye. 1 Corinthians 16:1

log-eia , h, A. collection of taxes or voluntary contributions, PHib.1.51.2 (iii B. C), PTeb.58.55 (ii B. C.), POxy.239.8 (i A. D.); collection for charity, 1 Ep.Cor.16.1,

Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come. 1 Corinthians 16:2
<blockquote><blockquote>


</blockquote></blockquote>Didache 1:5 Give to every one that asketh of thee, and ask not again;

for the Father wishes that from his own gifts there should be given to all.
Blessed is he who giveth according to the commandment, for he is free from guilt;
but woe unto him that receiveth.

For if a man receive being in need, he shall be free from guilt;

but he who receiveth when not in need, shall pay a penalty as to why he received and for what purpose; and when he is in tribulation he shall be examined concerning the things that he has done, and shall not depart thence until he has paid the last farthing.

For of a truth it has been said on these matters, let thy almsgiving abide in thy hands until thou knowest to whom thou hast given. Didache 1:6


<font face="arial" size="4">In The Necessity of Reforming the Church (1543) Calvin wrote:

http://www.piney.com/CalvinProfessPrea.html

But is it not altogether at variance with reason that the ploughing oxen should starve, and the lazy asses be fed? They will say, however, that they serve at the altar. I answer, that the priests under the law deserved maintenance, by ministering at an altar;

but that, as Paul declares, the case under the New Testament is different.

And what are those altar services, for which they allege that maintenance is due to them? Forsooth, that they may perform their masses and chant in churches, for example,

partly labor to no purpose,
and partly perpetrate sacrilege, thereby provoking the anger of God. See for what it is that they are alimented at the public expense!



</font>
Last edited by Donnie.Cruz on February 19th, 2012, 7:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Dave
Dave

December 21st, 2011, 4:47 pm #38

Historically a cappella churches with instrumental services returned to national directory

http://www.christianchronicle.org/blog/ ... directory/

This should remove any appearance of a HQ exclusion from "Churches of Christ in the United States", published by 21st Century Christian.

Good, unifying move, 21st Century Christian. It is a pity this website promotes division rather than unity.
Didache 1:5

Hey Ken? Is Didache in the Old Testament or New Testament?

Didn't think so.....

Well, if you're gonna be wrong, and not use Scriptures, at least be consistently wrong.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

December 21st, 2011, 4:58 pm #39

NOW concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye. 1 Corinthians 16:1

log-eia , h, A. collection of taxes or voluntary contributions, PHib.1.51.2 (iii B. C), PTeb.58.55 (ii B. C.), POxy.239.8 (i A. D.); collection for charity, 1 Ep.Cor.16.1,

Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come. 1 Corinthians 16:2
<blockquote><blockquote>


</blockquote></blockquote>Didache 1:5 Give to every one that asketh of thee, and ask not again;

for the Father wishes that from his own gifts there should be given to all.
Blessed is he who giveth according to the commandment, for he is free from guilt;
but woe unto him that receiveth.

For if a man receive being in need, he shall be free from guilt;

but he who receiveth when not in need, shall pay a penalty as to why he received and for what purpose; and when he is in tribulation he shall be examined concerning the things that he has done, and shall not depart thence until he has paid the last farthing.

For of a truth it has been said on these matters, let thy almsgiving abide in thy hands until thou knowest to whom thou hast given. Didache 1:6


<font face="arial" size="4">In The Necessity of Reforming the Church (1543) Calvin wrote:

http://www.piney.com/CalvinProfessPrea.html

But is it not altogether at variance with reason that the ploughing oxen should starve, and the lazy asses be fed? They will say, however, that they serve at the altar. I answer, that the priests under the law deserved maintenance, by ministering at an altar;

but that, as Paul declares, the case under the New Testament is different.

And what are those altar services, for which they allege that maintenance is due to them? Forsooth, that they may perform their masses and chant in churches, for example,

partly labor to no purpose,
and partly perpetrate sacrilege, thereby provoking the anger of God. See for what it is that they are alimented at the public expense!



</font>
If you cannot grasp that lay by HIM means lay by HIM then you are not SUPPOSED to understand: you are not a lost spirit OF FAITH or OF TRUTH.

Modern Speech: On the first day of every week let each of you put on one side and store up at his home whatever gain has been granted him; so that whenever I come, there may be no collections going on. (The Modern Speech New Testament, Richard Francis Weymouth).

Authentic Version: The day after the Sabbath let each of you put by savings as he has prospered, so that collections do not have to be made when I come. (The Authentic Version, Hugh J. Schonfield).

NEV: Every Sunday each of you is to put aside and keep by him a sum in proportion to his gains, so that there may be no collecting when I come. (New English Bible New Testament).

Plain English: On the first day of the week let each of you put aside and save something from his earnings; so that the money has not all to be collected when I come. (The New Testament in Plain English, Charles Kingsley Williams).

Neander: But Paul, if we examine his language closely, says no more than this: that every one should lay by in his own house on the first day of the week, whatever he was able to save.

This certainly might mean, that every one should bring with him the sum he had saved to the meeting of the church, that thus the individual contributions might be collected together, and be ready for Paul as soon as he came.

But this would be making a gratuitous supposition, not at all required by the connexion of the passage.

We may fairly understand the whole passage to mean, that every one on the first day of the week should lay aside what he could spare, so that when Paul came, every one might be prepared with the total of the sum laid by, and then by pulling the sums together, the collection of the whole church would be at once made." Dr. Augustus Neander, in his "History of the Training and Planting of the Christian Church,"


Give to the godly man, but do not help the sinner. Ecclu 12:4.

Do good to the humble, but do not give to the ungodly; hold back his bread, and do not give it to him, lest by means of it he subdue you; for you will receive twice as much evil for all the good which you do to him.

Ecclu 12: 5.
For the Most High also hates sinners and
will inflict punishment on the ungodly. Ecclu 12: 6.
Give to the good man, but do not help the sinner. Ecclu 12: 7.




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AM
AM

December 21st, 2011, 9:03 pm #40

AM said "It does not mention abortion either."
And you call me shallow?
Luke 18
18 A certain ruler asked him, Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?
19 Why do you call me good? Jesus answered. No one is goodexcept God alone. 20 You know the commandments: You shall not commit adultery, you shall not murder, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, honor your father and mother.

Am, in verse 20 Jesus told the wealthy ruler that it was sinful to murder, yet you say that the sin isn't listed in the Scriptures. So maybe you are saying that abortion isn't murder. You are a card indeed.
AM, perhaps you could make the same ludicrous claim, as someone else used to do, that the Scriptures do not say that snorting cocaine is a sin either.

You also make a claim for unpaid preachers....
1 Corinthians 16
1 Now about the collection for the Lords people: Do what I told the Galatian churches to do. 2 On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with your income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made. 3 Then, when I arrive, I will give letters of introduction to the men you approve and send them with your gift to Jerusalem.

In verse 3 Am, what do you think Paul meant by "send them with your gift?"
I would hope you would see that a gift is different from a salary. I guess you do not.
Secondly, Abortion is wrong, the spiritual destruction that occurs is indescribable, yet there are people that refuse to see this as anything more that a proceedure like pulling a tooth. Just like what has occured in our church services. We no longer look to please God, but there is this effort to entice people to Join a modern, up to date, entertaining service. We no longer view Church as a way to strengthen people spiritually, but a way to include them in our collection and popularity efforts. We do not teach people to follow that spirit that guides them away from destruction. Would you stand in front of an abortion clinic with the same musical instruments that you play in church, with the idea that would stop what is about to occur? That is how shallow our churches have become and Dave is right there playing his music, helping no one.

Your comment "Houston we have a problem" is only a problem for people who do not understand the Spirit of God and how that spirit is involved in their lives. How is this a problem to you?
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