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February 24th, 2013, 5:48 pm #41

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]It's all in the book of John.

Since you refuse to consider or study the details regarding the Godhead as outlined earlier, I'd like to simplify the outline in the order of entities:[/color]
<ol>[*]In the beginning was God [the Father] with the Word. The author explains that worship goes to the Father WHO is a SPIRIT and WHOM we worship in spirit and in truth. (John 1:1,2)

</li>[*]The Son Jesus Christ was God manifest in the FLESH (John 1:14). He DWELT WITH his disciples; he was their COMFORTER [literally]; he was not only the way and the life but also THE TRUTH.

</li>[*]The RESURRECTED Jesus Christ, NO LONGER IN THE FLESH, is that HOLY SPIRIT -- the COMFORTER and THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH. As promised to his disciples: "I will not leave you COMFORTLESS" and "I shall DWELL IN you." {Please study carefully John chapters 14-16. The narrative is plenary -- so long as you don't SPEED-READ it.)</li>[/list]

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]In essence, (1) in the beginning was God the FATHER (SPIRIT); (2) the WORD became FLESH {JESUS in human form -- He died and was buried; (3) the RESURRECTED JESUS is now that HOLY SPIRIT -- no longer in the FLESH.

How significant it is to study that timeline. Jesus Christ is no longer in the flesh. Honestly, there's a colossal difference between: (a) <b>FLESH and (b) SPIRIT.</b> If Jesus Christ is no longer in the flesh, what other conclusion can you have of his nature? [/color]
It would be an entirely different matter if someone said s/he didn't believe in the Godhead at all. But to the person who believes that the Godhead exists, that the Godhead IS, then it is a moot point if that person's concept of the Godhead is a three-in-one entity (God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit) or three separate, distinct entities (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit).

Of course in Matt. 28:19, when Jesus mentioned the Godhead in reference to our being baptized, He explicictly named the Father, Son, Holy Spirit. Now did He REALLY mean a three-in-one Godhead or a Godhead of three separate entities? Moot. For purposes of what the Godhead is in the universe and how the Godhead functions in the universe, it doesn't matter a hill of beans how we perceive the Godhead. It only matters that we believe the Godhead EXISTS. It only matters that we believe the Godhead is comprised of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, be they three-in-one OR three separate entities.

Beyond believing that the Godhead simply exists, debating the Godhead further is akin to debating how large heaven is or how many angels reside in heaven. It is interesting to speculate if you have lots of time on your hands, but it is futile in the long run.
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

February 24th, 2013, 6:53 pm #42

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]With your participation, the discussion of the Trinity is akin to your discussion of instrumental music -- endless. In other words, you are bothered by the endless discussion of the Trinity Creed that Protestant Churches ACQUIRED on INHERITED from the Roman Catholic Church/papacy. But you are not bothered by discussing instrumental music in the assembly -- also endless. In the long run, you will be "reminded" by IM lovers that: with or without instruments, there is still singing.

You might as well believe in the other Triad system that the Roman Catholic Church teaches -- "Father, Son and the Mother of God" -- an excellent view of a true familial relationship.

Let's be specific if you continue to participate in the discussion of this subject. Which passages in John 14-16 do you not understand or discuss further?

You continue to participate as evidenced by your constant response to the posts. Your desire is to end the seemingly endless discussion of the Trinity. Why can't you end your part of it? And let others continue the discussion?[/color]
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

February 24th, 2013, 7:14 pm #43

Note that the Jews had been ABANDONED to worship the starry hosts. These were always triads or families of God. To think of a star, planet, sun or moon as a god worshipped the CREATURE and not the Creator. While the Israelites called a bull calf representing their godS as in CalveS their JEHOVAH, the record is clear that they always tried to make the gods about their size and probably a bit more wicked.

The long dissertation of Jesus and all of the New Testament is to prove that the MAN Jesus, singular, was to debunk the trinities: Thomas wanted to SEE the Father.

Ezekiel in Chapter 8 describes the trinitarian worship by the women IN the Temple and the men bowing to the SUN by having to turn their backs on the temple.

A Lipscomb professor wrote a small booklet: his thesis was that ALL PAGANS believed in a trinity, therefore, it was only right that Christians have their own trinity. That was the Catholic's rationale (?) which they also applied to music in the School of Christ.

http://www.piney.com/MuTammuz.html

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Let's not make the Trinitarians mad and confused. They seem to have chosen to believe in only one of them:

(1) Father ... Son ... Holy Ghost (Spirit-Mother)
(2) Jehovah ... Jesus ... Virgin Mary ("Mother of God")

The Godhead has always been about the Spirit, the Holy Spirit -- continuously. There was somewhat an "interruption" (but not really, since God is a Spirit for eternity) when God was manifest in the flesh in Jesus Christ -- but that was a necessity as the world needed a Redeemer. After the resurrection of Christ, he was no longer in his physical form. He is, indeed, now our Comforter and the Spirit of truth.[/color]
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

February 24th, 2013, 7:48 pm #44

Where do you think the father people and the spirit people are? Jesus said I AM: not we are. Did the father person and the spirit person NOT teach anything at all?

Matthew 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:
and, lo,
I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Serious,

Your participation is appreciated.

I agree; it is not that complicated.

Being ONE simply means UNITY or in agreement.

"In the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost" is mentioned ONLY ONCE in the entire Bible -- and that was when Christ was still living with His disciples. The "Holy Spirit" as an entity in the NAME is identified as such because Christ at the time was not yet the Comforter and Spirit of truth.

After His resurrection, Christ was the Comforter and Spirit of truth -- as PROMISED to His disciples.

(1) THEN -- baptism was "in the name of the Father, Son and [Christ as] Spirit".

(2) NOW -- baptism is "in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ."

"In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ" -- this expression is sufficient throughout the rest of NT references [numerous]. There is no reason or wonder as to why it is NO LONGER the LONG NAME. When God [a Spirit] was manifest in the flesh and after the resurrection of Christ as the promised Comforter and Spirit of truth, the mystery of the Godhead has been revealed. [/color]
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February 24th, 2013, 7:57 pm #45

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]With your participation, the discussion of the Trinity is akin to your discussion of instrumental music -- endless. In other words, you are bothered by the endless discussion of the Trinity Creed that Protestant Churches ACQUIRED on INHERITED from the Roman Catholic Church/papacy. But you are not bothered by discussing instrumental music in the assembly -- also endless. In the long run, you will be "reminded" by IM lovers that: with or without instruments, there is still singing.

You might as well believe in the other Triad system that the Roman Catholic Church teaches -- "Father, Son and the Mother of God" -- an excellent view of a true familial relationship.

Let's be specific if you continue to participate in the discussion of this subject. Which passages in John 14-16 do you not understand or discuss further?

You continue to participate as evidenced by your constant response to the posts. Your desire is to end the seemingly endless discussion of the Trinity. Why can't you end your part of it? And let others continue the discussion?[/color]
It is important to discuss instrumental music, because the New Testament specifies only vocal music. To have instrumental music is to add to God's command for vocal music. Thus the subject of IM is far from moot, because it is a salvation issue.

It is also necessary to believe in the existence of the Godhead, because the New Testament mentions the components of the Godhead. Yet God did not make a salvation issue of how we perceive the ARRANGEMENT of the components of the Godhead: whether we see the Godhead arranged as one entity with components of God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit, OR whether we see the Godhead arranged as three separate components of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The line is so fine that it's almost like splitting hairs; hence, the futility of debate.

All I do is reiterate how important it is that we believe in the Godhead and that we go no further. You are certainly entitled to your personal beliefs about how the components of the Godhead are arranged, but apparently you feel compelled to keep hammering at this, as if you are trying to win everyone to your side. I hope you're not trying to make the arrangement of the components of the Godhead into a salvation issue, because then the implications would be that anyone who disagrees with your personal perception of it is in danger of hell.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

February 24th, 2013, 8:24 pm #46

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Let's not make the Trinitarians mad and confused. They seem to have chosen to believe in only one of them:

(1) Father ... Son ... Holy Ghost (Spirit-Mother)
(2) Jehovah ... Jesus ... Virgin Mary ("Mother of God")

The Godhead has always been about the Spirit, the Holy Spirit -- continuously. There was somewhat an "interruption" (but not really, since God is a Spirit for eternity) when God was manifest in the flesh in Jesus Christ -- but that was a necessity as the world needed a Redeemer. After the resurrection of Christ, he was no longer in his physical form. He is, indeed, now our Comforter and the Spirit of truth.[/color]
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February 24th, 2013, 8:45 pm #47

It is important to discuss instrumental music, because the New Testament specifies only vocal music. To have instrumental music is to add to God's command for vocal music. Thus the subject of IM is far from moot, because it is a salvation issue.

It is also necessary to believe in the existence of the Godhead, because the New Testament mentions the components of the Godhead. Yet God did not make a salvation issue of how we perceive the ARRANGEMENT of the components of the Godhead: whether we see the Godhead arranged as one entity with components of God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit, OR whether we see the Godhead arranged as three separate components of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The line is so fine that it's almost like splitting hairs; hence, the futility of debate.

All I do is reiterate how important it is that we believe in the Godhead and that we go no further. You are certainly entitled to your personal beliefs about how the components of the Godhead are arranged, but apparently you feel compelled to keep hammering at this, as if you are trying to win everyone to your side. I hope you're not trying to make the arrangement of the components of the Godhead into a salvation issue, because then the implications would be that anyone who disagrees with your personal perception of it is in danger of hell.
So now it has come down to our debating the futility of debating about the Godhead. And smiling with amusement, those who resided in the heavens just sighed and slowly shook their heads.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

February 24th, 2013, 8:51 pm #48

I have updated the table. Anyone who can read clear text can grasp why God working through Jesus Christ as the SINGULAR image of God spent so much time denying the Jewish etal pagan gods they worshipped because of Musical Idolatry of the Egyptian etal Trinity.

God is SPIRIT or exists on a level of MIND.
Jesus said that He was not SPIRIT but His Words were Spirit because he spoke ONLY what God breathed into him: inspired means BREATHED and the breath of God is NOT a people.

Trinitarians pretend that they are giving honor to the Spirit (the Mother goddess) but they deny that the fullness of Deity dwelled in the MAN Jesus of Nazareth. They may intentionally be denying glory to Jesus Christ because they say that they have moved BEYOND the Biblical dispensation and some kind of "spirit" guides them beyond the sacred pages.

John says that they are ANTICHRIST. Not even Judas knew that the spirit guiding him was the devil until Jesus flashed the SOP symbol which has the same root meaning as PSALLO.
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February 24th, 2013, 8:53 pm #49

Actually, there are FOUR elements or entities in that "Trinity" diagram: God, Father, Son, Spirit. Maybe that should be called the "Quaternity." Uh oh! More futile "debates"?
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

February 24th, 2013, 8:55 pm #50

I have updated the table. Anyone who can read clear text can grasp why God working through Jesus Christ as the SINGULAR image of God spent so much time denying the Jewish etal pagan gods they worshipped because of Musical Idolatry of the Egyptian etal Trinity.

God is SPIRIT or exists on a level of MIND.
Jesus said that He was not SPIRIT but His Words were Spirit because he spoke ONLY what God breathed into him: inspired means BREATHED and the breath of God is NOT a people.

Trinitarians pretend that they are giving honor to the Spirit (the Mother goddess) but they deny that the fullness of Deity dwelled in the MAN Jesus of Nazareth. They may intentionally be denying glory to Jesus Christ because they say that they have moved BEYOND the Biblical dispensation and some kind of "spirit" guides them beyond the sacred pages.

John says that they are ANTICHRIST. Not even Judas knew that the spirit guiding him was the devil until Jesus flashed the SOP symbol which has the same root meaning as PSALLO.
P.S. I am not debating anyone. To debate you need some scribbled notes. When you debate with Scripture you might as well do the Judas maneuver.
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