HISTORIC views of the Trinity: Frank Jamerson Blasphemy of Holy Spirit

Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

February 23rd, 2013, 5:47 pm #21

When we are baptized, by the authority of Jesus, we are baptized into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Throughout the New Testament [and in the Old Testament as well], there is only ONE OCCURRENCE of the long NAME -- yet it is ONLY ONE name. Matt. 28:19-20 -- "Go ... teach ... baptizing them in the NAME of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost ... teaching them to...."

In Acts 2:38 -- "... be baptized every one of you in the NAME of Jesus Christ...."

In Acts 8:16 -- "... they were baptized in the NAME of the Lord Jesus."

In Acts 10:48 -- "... he commanded them to be baptized in the NAME of the Lord."

Other passages are too numerous to list here [you can search the "name of" and find out] that reference the "NAME of the Lord Jesus Christ."

That tells me that in both expressions ("in the NAME OF...") are synonymous and there is only one name (which is singular).

The central message is still that being baptized in ONE NAME is in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ was God manifest in the flesh; it was also the same Christ RESURRECTED who was the promised <b>Comforter and the Spirit of truth (all this is in the context of John 14-16). The inclusion of the "Holy Spirit" in the LONG name was PRIOR to his death, burial and resurrection. AFTER that, there was no need to mention Christ the Spirit himself again. It is ALL "in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.</b>[/color]
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Serious
Serious

February 23rd, 2013, 6:01 pm #22

The statement "Into these relations to the Father, to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit we are immersed" is what Jesus commanded but the name is singular. Based on his discussion with the baptists at

http://www.piney.com/Alexander.Campbell ... pirit.html

He continues to say: He wished them a full fellowship, an equal participation of those measures of the Holy Spirit which belonged to the body of Christ as such

When we are baptized into the name (singular) of Jesus Christ we have all of the blessings of Father, Son and Spirit because Jesus bore "the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Colossians 2:9 For IN him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Colossians 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:


http://www.piney.com/AcCSPropX.html

Thus Peter was authorized to command those Gentiles to be immersed by the authority of the Lord, no man daring to forbid it.

But these gifts of the Holy Spirit, differed exceedingly from the seasons of refreshment, from the righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit, the common enjoyment of all who were immersed into the name of the Lord Jesus for the remission of sins.

Let it be noted here, as pertinent to our present purpose, that as the Apostle Peter was interrupted by the baptism of the Holy Spirit, when he began to speak of the forgiveness by the name of the Lord Jesus; so soon as he saw the Lord had received them, he commanded them to be immersed by the authority of the Lord. And here I must propose another question to the learned and the unlearned.

How comes it to pass, that though once and only once, it is commanded that the nations who believe should be immersed into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit;
<font color="#FFFFFF">.....
and though we read of no person being immersed into this name in this way; I say, how comes it to pass,

that all sects use these words without a scruple, and baptize or sprinkle in this name;
when more than once persons are commanded to be immersed for the remission of sins, [Acts 2:38 3:19 22:16]




</font>
"Into these relations to the Father, to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit we are immersed; for the Lord commanded the believers to be immersed into the name of the Holy Spirit as well as into the name of the Father and the Son."

A. Campbell

********************

1 + 1 + 1 = 1
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February 23rd, 2013, 8:24 pm #23

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Throughout the New Testament [and in the Old Testament as well], there is only ONE OCCURRENCE of the long NAME -- yet it is ONLY ONE name. Matt. 28:19-20 -- "Go ... teach ... baptizing them in the NAME of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost ... teaching them to...."

In Acts 2:38 -- "... be baptized every one of you in the NAME of Jesus Christ...."

In Acts 8:16 -- "... they were baptized in the NAME of the Lord Jesus."

In Acts 10:48 -- "... he commanded them to be baptized in the NAME of the Lord."

Other passages are too numerous to list here [you can search the "name of" and find out] that reference the "NAME of the Lord Jesus Christ."

That tells me that in both expressions ("in the NAME OF...") are synonymous and there is only one name (which is singular).

The central message is still that being baptized in ONE NAME is in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ was God manifest in the flesh; it was also the same Christ RESURRECTED who was the promised <b>Comforter and the Spirit of truth (all this is in the context of John 14-16). The inclusion of the "Holy Spirit" in the LONG name was PRIOR to his death, burial and resurrection. AFTER that, there was no need to mention Christ the Spirit himself again. It is ALL "in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.</b>[/color]
The one NAME has three components or entities: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Now if there were not three entities, I wonder why Jesus didn't phrase Matt. 28:19 as: "...baptizing them in the name of the Father WHO IS the Son and WHO IS the Holy Ghost," thus equating all three together. But Jesus didn't phrase it like that. He said, "...baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost." Three entities. Again, He didn't say they were separate and distinct from one another, but He did mention THREE nonetheless.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

February 23rd, 2013, 8:46 pm #24

Father, Son and Spirit are NOT names CANNOT be names of people. The NAME singular of Father, Son and Spirit is Jesus Christ. There is NO OTHER NAME by which you might be saved. That is what Peter and everyone else understood and NEVER, EVER baptized in the NAME of the Father and the Name of the Son and the NAME of the Spirit which is the BREATH which connects the ONE GOD to the ONE MEDIATOR the MAN Jesus Christ.

Donnie may have to have another short course on name as SINGULAR.

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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

February 23rd, 2013, 8:47 pm #25

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Throughout the New Testament [and in the Old Testament as well], there is only ONE OCCURRENCE of the long NAME -- yet it is ONLY ONE name. Matt. 28:19-20 -- "Go ... teach ... baptizing them in the NAME of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost ... teaching them to...."

In Acts 2:38 -- "... be baptized every one of you in the NAME of Jesus Christ...."

In Acts 8:16 -- "... they were baptized in the NAME of the Lord Jesus."

In Acts 10:48 -- "... he commanded them to be baptized in the NAME of the Lord."

Other passages are too numerous to list here [you can search the "name of" and find out] that reference the "NAME of the Lord Jesus Christ."

That tells me that in both expressions ("in the NAME OF...") are synonymous and there is only one name (which is singular).

The central message is still that being baptized in ONE NAME is in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ was God manifest in the flesh; it was also the same Christ RESURRECTED who was the promised <b>Comforter and the Spirit of truth (all this is in the context of John 14-16). The inclusion of the "Holy Spirit" in the LONG name was PRIOR to his death, burial and resurrection. AFTER that, there was no need to mention Christ the Spirit himself again. It is ALL "in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.</b>[/color]
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]The book of John [thanks to the apostle] for explaining it all in the book. Throughout the narrative, it was always about the relationship between the Father and the Son, the communication between the Father and the Son. (Please read the entire book for clarity.) The Trinity creed designates the "Holy Spirit" as the third person in the Godhead. But upon careful study of the book, it is revealed that such "PERSON NO. 3" does not exist -- is not mentioned in that relationship and communication.
[/color]<ol>[*][color=#000000" size="3" face="times]God, the Father, was in the beginning with the Word (John 1:1,2). Jesus (later in 4:21-24) said: "... worship the Father ... God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."

[/color]</li>[*][color=#000000" size="3" face="times]Jesus Christ, the Son of God: "... the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and <b>TRUTH.</b>' With his disciples, Jesus was their "physical" Comforter while he also declared being "the way, the TRUTH, and the life." He promised his disciples of the "Holy Ghost" described as "another" [not an additional PERSON, but someone different in manifestation, nature and role]. He dwelt WITH them and promised them to not leave them "COMFORTLESS" [knowing he was their "comfort" literally]. He was to COME TO them and DWELL IN them -- this time as a Spirit.

He was still living with his disciples when he commissioned them to go, teach, baptize (oh, in the [one] NAME of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost), and teach some more.

[/color]</li>[*][color=#000000" size="3" face="times]After his resurrection, as promised to his disciples, Jesus Christ was that Holy Spirit -- "the [another, meaning 'different' but not an addition] COMFORTER" as well as "the Spirit of truth."[/color]</li>[/list]
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]NOTE: Jesus Christ as the Comforter and the Spirit of truth is NOT AN ADDITION AS ANOTHER PERSON in the man-concocted Trinity creed.

All later references after His resurrection (even during and after the establishment of the church) point to the truth that all is "in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ" -- Jesus Christ whose central message is the embodiment of God in the flesh and the Spirit in His divine nature.[/color]
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

February 23rd, 2013, 9:08 pm #26

That's what Jesus told us to do. He mentioned THREE entities: Father, Son, Holy Ghost. He didn't say they were necessarily separate from each other, but He did mention THREE.
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]B,

NO ONE is arguing the number of entities or components in the long name. The argument is about the third entity: the Holy Spirit.

(a) Is the Holy Spirit -- the 3RD PERSON (or Person no. 3) in the Trinity Creed?

----------------- or ----------------

(b) Is the Holy Spirit Jesus Christ in his post-death/divine, resurrected nature -- the Comforter and Spirit of truth?

I dare say that: (a) is a man-concocted, papal/papacy-approved creed. The book of John (esp. chapters 14 and 16) explains (b) in detail -- if one is interested in learning the details.[/color]
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February 23rd, 2013, 9:32 pm #27

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]The book of John [thanks to the apostle] for explaining it all in the book. Throughout the narrative, it was always about the relationship between the Father and the Son, the communication between the Father and the Son. (Please read the entire book for clarity.) The Trinity creed designates the "Holy Spirit" as the third person in the Godhead. But upon careful study of the book, it is revealed that such "PERSON NO. 3" does not exist -- is not mentioned in that relationship and communication.
[/color]<ol>[*][color=#000000" size="3" face="times]God, the Father, was in the beginning with the Word (John 1:1,2). Jesus (later in 4:21-24) said: "... worship the Father ... God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."

[/color]</li>[*][color=#000000" size="3" face="times]Jesus Christ, the Son of God: "... the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and <b>TRUTH.</b>' With his disciples, Jesus was their "physical" Comforter while he also declared being "the way, the TRUTH, and the life." He promised his disciples of the "Holy Ghost" described as "another" [not an additional PERSON, but someone different in manifestation, nature and role]. He dwelt WITH them and promised them to not leave them "COMFORTLESS" [knowing he was their "comfort" literally]. He was to COME TO them and DWELL IN them -- this time as a Spirit.

He was still living with his disciples when he commissioned them to go, teach, baptize (oh, in the [one] NAME of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost), and teach some more.

[/color]</li>[*][color=#000000" size="3" face="times]After his resurrection, as promised to his disciples, Jesus Christ was that Holy Spirit -- "the [another, meaning 'different' but not an addition] COMFORTER" as well as "the Spirit of truth."[/color]</li>[/list]
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]NOTE: Jesus Christ as the Comforter and the Spirit of truth is NOT AN ADDITION AS ANOTHER PERSON in the man-concocted Trinity creed.

All later references after His resurrection (even during and after the establishment of the church) point to the truth that all is "in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ" -- Jesus Christ whose central message is the embodiment of God in the flesh and the Spirit in His divine nature.[/color]
Too much dissection of spiritual matters. Father, Son, Holy Ghost. Jesus mentions three. Three entities. Are they distinct and separate from each other? Does it really matter one way or the other? They exist, therefore they are. Enough said.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

February 23rd, 2013, 9:56 pm #28

Matthew 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
Matthew 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
Matthew 13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Matthew 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
Matthew 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
Matthew 13:15 For this peoples heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Matthew 13:16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
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Serious
Serious

February 23rd, 2013, 10:13 pm #29

Frank Jamerson on Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit was offered as the non-institutional view of God as THREE PERSONS. He disputed saying that the NAME of the Holy Spirit is Jesus Christ but Scripture says that the another or changed Jesus Christ IS The Name of the Holy Spirit or MIND of Christ as in 1 corinthians 2

http://www.piney.com/Frank.Jamerson.Bla ... pirit.html

Maybe we should unload the "new minister" thread although he/they undoubtedly think that the Spirit OF Christ is another POST-MODERN, POST-CHRISTIAN clear channel directly from God.

Men like C. Leonard Allen thinks that now that the MODERN views have been trashed (your godly ancestors and preachers before apostasy) we can look BACKWARD and understand God by looking at history.

http://www.piney.com/Trinity.Leonard.Allen.html

I don't consider any of these Bible Scholars or even Disciples because they don't believe the Word and therefore cannot understand it.

While Paul Tillich is not an authority, he does know when the neo-trinitarianism (ACU, DLC, Peppperdine) was spawned.

"There is much gnostic Marcionism in them, that is, a dualistic blasphemy of the Creator God. They put the Savior God in such opposition to the Creator God that, although they never fall into any real heresy, they implicitly blaspheme the divine creation by identifying it with the sinful state of reality.

Against this tendency Irenaeus said that God is one; there is no duality in him.
---Law and gospel,
---creation and salvation,
---are derived from the same God."
---(Tillich, Paul, A History of Christian Thought, p. 42)

"This God is never called a person. The word person was never applied to God in the Middle ages. The reason for this is that the three members of the trinity were called personae (faces or countenances): The Father is persona, the Son is persona, and the Spirit is persona. Persona here means a special characteristic of the divine ground, expressing itself in an independent hypostasis.

"Thus, we can say that it was the nineteenth century which made God into a person, with the result that the greatness of the classical idea of God was destroyed by this way of speaking... but to speak of God as a person would have been heretical for the Middle Ages; it would have been to them a Unitarian heresy, because it would have conflicted with the statement that God has three personae, three expressions of his being. (Tillich, Paul, A History of Christian Thought, p. 190)
Matthew 28:18-20

American Standard Version (ASV)


18 And Jesus came to them and spake unto them, saying, All authority hath been given unto me in heaven and on earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit:

20 teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I commanded you: and lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

After all the discussion about long names, short names, non names, grammatical article twisting, singular names, plural names, adding the spirit, removing the spirit, baptismal formula, implicitly blaspheme, and other smoke screens, I have decided to stick with the Words of Jesus.

Jesus commanded us to "Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit". It's not that complicated and the Word will never change or expire. BTW, it also answers the question "how can God be three and yet one?". The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are "ONE".

JMHO
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

February 23rd, 2013, 10:34 pm #30

Where do you think the father people and the spirit people are? Jesus said I AM: not we are. Did the father person and the spirit person NOT teach anything at all?

Matthew 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:
and, lo,
I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
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