HISTORIC views of the Trinity: Frank Jamerson Blasphemy of Holy Spirit

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B

February 22nd, 2013, 4:22 am #11

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Ken is correct. Those are not NAMES [plural].

"In the NAME of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost" is SINGULAR -- one name only -- as I recall, the only time that SINGULAR NAME is mentioned in the Bible. The shorter NAME for that is simply "the name of the Lord Jesus Christ."

Let me count the number of times "the name of the Lord" or "the name of Jesus Christ" is mentioned in the New Testament:

1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13 ... 20,21,22 ... (OK, too numerous times to count). Just see for yourself: do a search on the expression "name of" and count the number of occurrences for me. And we'll record it here.[/color]
Now the debate rages over whether God, the Son, and the Holy Spirit do or do not have "names," and what those "names" are. I'm sure He/They are all amused at this folly.
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

February 22nd, 2013, 4:46 am #12

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]But you're participating in the debate rage. [/color]
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Serious
Serious

February 22nd, 2013, 10:21 am #13

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Ken is correct. Those are not NAMES [plural].

"In the NAME of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost" is SINGULAR -- one name only -- as I recall, the only time that SINGULAR NAME is mentioned in the Bible. The shorter NAME for that is simply "the name of the Lord Jesus Christ."

Let me count the number of times "the name of the Lord" or "the name of Jesus Christ" is mentioned in the New Testament:

1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13 ... 20,21,22 ... (OK, too numerous times to count). Just see for yourself: do a search on the expression "name of" and count the number of occurrences for me. And we'll record it here.[/color]
Donnie, that is the wonder of it all.

Read what Alexander Campbell said about it.


A. Campbell said:


"Into these relations to the Father, to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit we are immersed; for the Lord commanded the believers to be immersed into the name of the Holy Spirit as well as into the name of the Father and the Son. To be immersed into the name of the Holy Spirit, prepares for the enjoyment of this communion; as being immersed into the Father, introduces into the enjoyment of the love of God; and as immersion into the name of Jesus Christ, introduces us into the favor of the Lord Jesus. This love, grace, and communion are the superlative glory of the Christian institution. They are equally apprehensible, though in their nature and modes of development incomprehensible. It is the duty, honor, and privilege of Christians to enjoy all that into which they are immersed. There is as much wisdom or folly in disparaging the communion of the Holy Spirit, as in undervaluing the love of God or the favor of Jesus Christ."
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B
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February 22nd, 2013, 1:14 pm #14

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]But you're participating in the debate rage. [/color]
Maybe that's the eighth modern wonder of the world.
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Shing Taul Lau
Shing Taul Lau

February 22nd, 2013, 1:57 pm #15

Frank Jamerson on Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit was offered as the non-institutional view of God as THREE PERSONS. He disputed saying that the NAME of the Holy Spirit is Jesus Christ but Scripture says that the another or changed Jesus Christ IS The Name of the Holy Spirit or MIND of Christ as in 1 corinthians 2

http://www.piney.com/Frank.Jamerson.Bla ... pirit.html

Maybe we should unload the "new minister" thread although he/they undoubtedly think that the Spirit OF Christ is another POST-MODERN, POST-CHRISTIAN clear channel directly from God.

Men like C. Leonard Allen thinks that now that the MODERN views have been trashed (your godly ancestors and preachers before apostasy) we can look BACKWARD and understand God by looking at history.

http://www.piney.com/Trinity.Leonard.Allen.html

I don't consider any of these Bible Scholars or even Disciples because they don't believe the Word and therefore cannot understand it.

While Paul Tillich is not an authority, he does know when the neo-trinitarianism (ACU, DLC, Peppperdine) was spawned.

"There is much gnostic Marcionism in them, that is, a dualistic blasphemy of the Creator God. They put the Savior God in such opposition to the Creator God that, although they never fall into any real heresy, they implicitly blaspheme the divine creation by identifying it with the sinful state of reality.

Against this tendency Irenaeus said that God is one; there is no duality in him.
---Law and gospel,
---creation and salvation,
---are derived from the same God."
---(Tillich, Paul, A History of Christian Thought, p. 42)

"This God is never called a person. The word person was never applied to God in the Middle ages. The reason for this is that the three members of the trinity were called personae (faces or countenances): The Father is persona, the Son is persona, and the Spirit is persona. Persona here means a special characteristic of the divine ground, expressing itself in an independent hypostasis.

"Thus, we can say that it was the nineteenth century which made God into a person, with the result that the greatness of the classical idea of God was destroyed by this way of speaking... but to speak of God as a person would have been heretical for the Middle Ages; it would have been to them a Unitarian heresy, because it would have conflicted with the statement that God has three personae, three expressions of his being. (Tillich, Paul, A History of Christian Thought, p. 190)
Donnie,
You need your old Pal here, Shing Tau Lau, to take some hits from B, for you?
Here if you need me.

Behave B!

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Dave Fields, ConcernedMembers is incredibly irresistible to you, eh?

Just decide to get serious and use a serious user-ID (it does not have to be a photo) ... and we'll welcome you back (I think, maybe).
[/color]
Last edited by Donnie.Cruz on February 23rd, 2013, 3:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

February 22nd, 2013, 4:48 pm #16

Donnie, that is the wonder of it all.

Read what Alexander Campbell said about it.


A. Campbell said:


"Into these relations to the Father, to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit we are immersed; for the Lord commanded the believers to be immersed into the name of the Holy Spirit as well as into the name of the Father and the Son. To be immersed into the name of the Holy Spirit, prepares for the enjoyment of this communion; as being immersed into the Father, introduces into the enjoyment of the love of God; and as immersion into the name of Jesus Christ, introduces us into the favor of the Lord Jesus. This love, grace, and communion are the superlative glory of the Christian institution. They are equally apprehensible, though in their nature and modes of development incomprehensible. It is the duty, honor, and privilege of Christians to enjoy all that into which they are immersed. There is as much wisdom or folly in disparaging the communion of the Holy Spirit, as in undervaluing the love of God or the favor of Jesus Christ."
The statement "Into these relations to the Father, to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit we are immersed" is what Jesus commanded but the name is singular. Based on his discussion with the baptists at

http://www.piney.com/Alexander.Campbell ... pirit.html

He continues to say: He wished them a full fellowship, an equal participation of those measures of the Holy Spirit which belonged to the body of Christ as such

When we are baptized into the name (singular) of Jesus Christ we have all of the blessings of Father, Son and Spirit because Jesus bore "the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Colossians 2:9 For IN him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Colossians 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:


http://www.piney.com/AcCSPropX.html

Thus Peter was authorized to command those Gentiles to be immersed by the authority of the Lord, no man daring to forbid it.

But these gifts of the Holy Spirit, differed exceedingly from the seasons of refreshment, from the righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit, the common enjoyment of all who were immersed into the name of the Lord Jesus for the remission of sins.

Let it be noted here, as pertinent to our present purpose, that as the Apostle Peter was interrupted by the baptism of the Holy Spirit, when he began to speak of the forgiveness by the name of the Lord Jesus; so soon as he saw the Lord had received them, he commanded them to be immersed by the authority of the Lord. And here I must propose another question to the learned and the unlearned.

How comes it to pass, that though once and only once, it is commanded that the nations who believe should be immersed into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit;
<font color="#FFFFFF">.....
and though we read of no person being immersed into this name in this way; I say, how comes it to pass,

that all sects use these words without a scruple, and baptize or sprinkle in this name;
when more than once persons are commanded to be immersed for the remission of sins, [Acts 2:38 3:19 22:16]




</font>
Last edited by Ken.Sublett on February 22nd, 2013, 4:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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B

February 22nd, 2013, 5:15 pm #17

Donnie,
You need your old Pal here, Shing Tau Lau, to take some hits from B, for you?
Here if you need me.

Behave B!

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Dave Fields, ConcernedMembers is incredibly irresistible to you, eh?

Just decide to get serious and use a serious user-ID (it does not have to be a photo) ... and we'll welcome you back (I think, maybe).
[/color]
Everyone hide your jewelry! Dave's back!
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

February 22nd, 2013, 10:19 pm #18

Frank Jamerson on Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit was offered as the non-institutional view of God as THREE PERSONS. He disputed saying that the NAME of the Holy Spirit is Jesus Christ but Scripture says that the another or changed Jesus Christ IS The Name of the Holy Spirit or MIND of Christ as in 1 corinthians 2

http://www.piney.com/Frank.Jamerson.Bla ... pirit.html

Maybe we should unload the "new minister" thread although he/they undoubtedly think that the Spirit OF Christ is another POST-MODERN, POST-CHRISTIAN clear channel directly from God.

Men like C. Leonard Allen thinks that now that the MODERN views have been trashed (your godly ancestors and preachers before apostasy) we can look BACKWARD and understand God by looking at history.

http://www.piney.com/Trinity.Leonard.Allen.html

I don't consider any of these Bible Scholars or even Disciples because they don't believe the Word and therefore cannot understand it.

While Paul Tillich is not an authority, he does know when the neo-trinitarianism (ACU, DLC, Peppperdine) was spawned.

"There is much gnostic Marcionism in them, that is, a dualistic blasphemy of the Creator God. They put the Savior God in such opposition to the Creator God that, although they never fall into any real heresy, they implicitly blaspheme the divine creation by identifying it with the sinful state of reality.

Against this tendency Irenaeus said that God is one; there is no duality in him.
---Law and gospel,
---creation and salvation,
---are derived from the same God."
---(Tillich, Paul, A History of Christian Thought, p. 42)

"This God is never called a person. The word person was never applied to God in the Middle ages. The reason for this is that the three members of the trinity were called personae (faces or countenances): The Father is persona, the Son is persona, and the Spirit is persona. Persona here means a special characteristic of the divine ground, expressing itself in an independent hypostasis.

"Thus, we can say that it was the nineteenth century which made God into a person, with the result that the greatness of the classical idea of God was destroyed by this way of speaking... but to speak of God as a person would have been heretical for the Middle Ages; it would have been to them a Unitarian heresy, because it would have conflicted with the statement that God has three personae, three expressions of his being. (Tillich, Paul, A History of Christian Thought, p. 190)
There is no Baptismal Formula: when the preacher points one hand into the heavens (air) and one hand on the candidicate and says "I baptize you in the name of the Father, the son and the holy spirit" they are speaking a magical formula which gives power to the blood of Christ. At the same time they may deny that ALL AUTHORITY now rest in Jesus Christ the Righteous: the NAME of the "another" Paraclete or Comforter.

A proselyte and vocational baptism the candidate was asked "into whose name are you being baptized." For instance,

Acts 8:34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee,
<font color="#FFFFFF">.....
of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?
Acts 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
Acts 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water:
.....and the eunuch said, See, here is water;
.....what doth hinder me to be baptized?


Notice that Phillip did not put words into his mouth:

Acts 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest.
.....And he answered and said,
.....I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.


Philip did nothing more than take him down into the water, baptized him and brought up up out of the water

Acts 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still:
.....and they went down both into the water,
.....both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
Acts 8:39 And when they were come up out of the water,
.....the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more:
.....and he went on his way rejoicing.


1John 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God:
.....Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh
.....is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist,
.....whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Acts 22:15 For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.
Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou?
.....arise, and be baptized,
.....and wash away thy sins,
.....calling on the name of the Lord.


The Spirit Lord had to let Paul SEE and HEAR Him to qualify as an Apostle. Jesus of Nazareth in His Holy Spirit Form promised to guide Paul into all truth as the other Apostles.

Will they repent of their clerical arrogance? Of course not: they have the POWER in the PAW</font>
Last edited by Ken.Sublett on February 22nd, 2013, 10:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Serious
Serious

February 23rd, 2013, 4:03 pm #19

When we are baptized, by the authority of Jesus, we are baptized into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

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B
B

February 23rd, 2013, 5:12 pm #20

That's what Jesus told us to do. He mentioned THREE entities: Father, Son, Holy Ghost. He didn't say they were necessarily separate from each other, but He did mention THREE.
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