Anonymous
Anonymous

March 6th, 2007, 2:28 am #11

Goodpasture web site says Charles Baugh who I think is the preacher at Goodletsville.
Quote
Share

Anonymous
Anonymous

March 12th, 2007, 3:21 pm #12

Goodpasture's requirement that someone employed by the school or sitting on the board of directors (you do not have to be Church of Christ to be on the President's board only the main board) is in current practice humorous. Attending football games and other events on campus it is pretty clear that the environment is marginally church oriented but how is it reinforced or supervised relative to the students. Its not, they act like any other public school and in some instances worst.

I would almost rather see a strong ethics code at the school than to substitute a specific church affiliation as a substitute for ethics. When all the school requires of its employees is some affiliation with some Church of Christ, how do you even know that the individuals being employed are any more Church of Christ than someone who is a lukewarm Baptist or Methodist or Catholic? Showing by example might be more important than carrying around a membership card.

The politics at Goodpasture is just disgusting. The things I have read on the website goodpastureconfidential causes me to think that the school may have people in leadership who are Church of Christ attendees but do those leaders have what it takes to lead a school in these times? If not, perhaps more harm is done than good.
Quote
Share

PPB
PPB

March 15th, 2007, 2:13 am #13

Based on the comment above, let's take that a step further and look at the overall breakdown of the Church of Christ and how this is playing into the hands of the change agents...Let's see the pattern here!

As a person who knew the Oakhills congregation BEFORE Max Lucado and AFTER, this is exactly how people like Max work. As many know on this website, I've stated quite frankly my opinion on Mr. Lucado and his "sales" ability; much less my firm belief that he is NOT a Christian by Biblical standards. (What other standards are there, really?) Yet, there are those who continue to applaud him and his leadership behind the division in the Churches of Christ.

What always amazes me is that so many of you believe he is some wonderful, newly enlightned preacher who has finally found the truth. He was a true member of the Church of Christ who came to a realization that there is another way...Really? Are some of you really that gullable?

Let's look at the facts and not his "sales pitch". As early as the late 70's, he was still behind the Baptist Church. During his long tenure at Oakhills, he NEVER gave up his beliefs in other ways/forms of religion. Even during his so-called "early days" at Oakhills, he never once acted as if he was fully a member of the Churches of Christ. And when confronted with teaching errors, he did admit he had "issues" with some things that were believed. Yet, he was allowed to stay on because he was so charismatic. Hence the reason so many of the original members left in disgust and disbelief. And now we are all shocked that he leads the change?

Has no one realized that he was planted at Oakhills to do exactly what he has done? To sew discord and disbelief? To cause a break in the very religion he admits he was never truly in agreement with? To let his charismatic personality sway people from the truth? Why are we shocked? My parents talked about this in the late 1980's. All the other Churches of Christ in San Antonio talked about how "mesmerized" the Oakhill members were and how far from the actually Word of God they had strayed. He was known for being weak on scriptural understanding, and, in fact, still shows his weakness today. Yet, so many of you buy his "feel good" but erroneous books.

Here is another instance of how the devil starts to tear apart a church and/or Christian school. How else would he do it? Walk up to you and say "Hey, I'm here to ruin yet another congregation and tear it away from God?" I don't think he's quite so honest and upfront.

And so, it starts with the school President and stops....where?
Quote
Share

Ken Sublett
Ken Sublett

March 15th, 2007, 8:19 pm #14

It is a fact that Max is terminally ignorant about the Bible along with too many others.
If not so then terminally evil about lying about too much of the Bible.
Max writes fiction and when I read hs first book being the TEXBOOK for my daughter's
class in Atlanta, I knew that he was not feeding on the Biible. As a reaader
of myths and early gnosticism I would say that many of his ideas are bleed
from documents he knows no one else will understand.

I remember some of the Operation 68 people and Max had to hustle through
college and get some PRACTICE before he could join up. Didn't Max return
c 1985 from Brazil. I know that he was used by Shelly in contriving the
Jubilee heresy with the stated intention of restructuring churches of Christ.

My guess is that Max is Spiritist but clearly not Christian. I think now
that he is Opportunist sucking the life blood of people who live on
the effeminant stuff. He confessed that he gets Ideas, buys up all of the
books and then TESTS each word for their effect. That is, he intends
to change people through what, along with music and rhetoric,
always been identified as SORCERY.

What I wonder about is that too many of the bonded buddies
have the same look and style and I wonder if the relationship is
not closer than the blood of Jesus.

What can you tell us about any hints of the Spiritist of Brazil
who converted more preachers than they did Brazilians?
Quote
Share

Anonymous
Anonymous

March 17th, 2007, 12:23 am #15

PPB, I certainly question your knowledge of the Oak Hills congregation before Max was the preacher since you can not even print the name of the congregation correctly. If you have any legitimate questions that you would like answered regarding Oak Hills, I would be glad to answer them.
Quote
Share

Dr. Bill Crump
Dr. Bill Crump

March 17th, 2007, 2:16 pm #16

PPB gave some detailed information about Lucado, yet "Anonymous" discredits that on the basis of a typo? Because "Oak Hills" is typed "Oakhills"? If PPB's message had contained reference to a bookmark and it was typed as "book mark," would "Anonymous" have strained to deny the message over that as well? People tend to nitpick when they are unable to counter strong arguments.
Quote
Share

Tom Brite
Tom Brite

March 17th, 2007, 6:55 pm #17

Sorry Doctor, the anonymous was me. My specific questions to PPB would be: 1. Who planted Max at Oak Hills? (I was a member at the time that he was hired as minister.) and 2. Which were the congregations in San Antonio ("all other congregations in San Antonio") to which PPB was referring? He/She seems to speak from quite a bit of knowledge, just would like an answer to these questions.
Quote
Share

ppb
ppb

March 18th, 2007, 3:29 am #18

Tom,

Wow, aren't you a nice guy. I'm sorry I was typing so early in the morning that I didn't proofread just so you would be impressed.

I could write pages on this issue, but everyone here has already heard some of it and those that need to read it wouldn't take the time. I'll try to keep this short and to the point.

I grew up in San Antonio as an area preacher's kid. This provided me with more info on the Max scandal than a normal young adult. Add to that, some of my family and friends attended Oak Hills before, during and after Max arrived. And yes, I know a lot of what went on back when he first came, more than most the members since I was privileged to knowledge of the in-fighting over Oak Hill's teachings after Max arrived (though it took some years to become evident). I was also witness to some events.

That Max caused division amongst family and friends is undisputed and a well-known fact. My family was not immune to the fall out. That very few of the original members are still there is also undisputed.

To say that area Churches such as Northside, MacAurthur, Jefferson, etc (must I go on?) were upset is an understatement. Talk about shocked and upset! They all questioned why Oak Hills had hired Max and knew it would take Oak HIlls down the wrong road. It was very upsetting news at the time. An ex-baptist preacher who's beliefs were questionable and who didn't work well with other area preachers was not exactly a welcomed addition. The controversy was strong across all of South Texas and still is.

My best friend still attends Oak Hills, though it is NOT something we discuss. She admits that Oak Hills is teaching mistruth, but she feels she has a better chance of meeting a nice single man there due to their large singles group. What a sad excuse.

I chose not to be a part of a congregation that was leading souls down the wrong path. I had this strange idea that being quiet about something I knew was wrong would make me just as guilty. I couldn't understand why people couldn't see past his charisma to the false Biblical truth underneath.

And who do I think sent Max? I think most of us on this board are very aware of the small group who started this movement in the 70s. Why must I explain such a well known issue?

And thanks but no Tom, I do not have questions I need answered about Oak Hills. I know more than I want to know or care to know. Oak Hills saddens me to my core. Max Lucado will have to answer to God, not me. I'm just glad I will not be standing in his shoes at that time.
Quote
Share

Anonymous
Anonymous

March 18th, 2007, 12:26 pm #19

PPB, I too am deeply saddened by events at Oak Hills. I know far too many who have left for other congregations, all unnecessary. I do not think that other congregations in town were upset with Oak Hills when Max was hired. In fact, I remember attending a joint series of lessons held between MacArthur and Oak HIlls with Rubel Shelly speaking. Many Northside members attended Oak Hills (visiting) during those early years that Max was speaking. (Jefferson, well they have had 15 members during all of those years, most over the age of 80).

Why do you say that Max was hired as an "ex-Baptist preacher." That is not true. While I will be the first to say what has happened is a tragedy, one not without hope of reversing, by the way, I think that it serves no purpose to misinform.

I apologize for my earlier demeanor.

Quote
Share

Joined: March 19th, 2007, 2:35 am

March 19th, 2007, 3:01 am #20

I strongly disagree that the decline in Goodpasture is the neighborhood. When I was there, students came from East Nashville to Springfield to Hendersonville to Donelson. If anything, the geographic reach now is the same if not expanded. I have seen students from as far away as southern Kentucky and Wilson County. I see fewer students from East Nashville - well, except for the sports program. I have heard it said that Goodpasture now sees its target areas as those areas to its west, north and east - it is not looking south.

I do however agree that the president's board is a waste of time for those on it. They have no purpose or duty. It is an honorary position with little participation except as a panel of contacts that were selected for reasons ranging from money to influence. If it was so important for the school to be led by Church of Christ believers then explain why that feature does not apply to the president's board. It is likely because leadership is not expected but other support is.

As for Mr. Drake, he is a nice man but he is not a leader. He has been in control of the school for 3 years and there is no material evidence that it is turning around and/or that the academic standings are increasing. The rumor mill has it that one principal and as many as 10 teachers are not renewing their contracts at the end of this school year. That might be fine if these were individuals that needed to be pruned anyhow but I suspect that the ones leaving are the ones who are aware that the school has hit an iceburg with its current administration and board.

God himself (or perhaps other super human beings who influence the decisions of humans) knows why Mr. Drake was really selected or why he returned after resigning last spring. It is not apparent to human evaluation. When he was hired, and even now, he had no experience in education, he had no master's or doctoriate degrees in education, he has never taught, he has never been a principal or administrator, he was never even the chief executive officer of a business. He sold insurance and then sold seats on corporate jets. Neither of those have a lot to do with setting and enforcing academic policy, overseeing teachers and principals, dealing with demanding parents, etc. Now, don't get me wrong, this is not to say that Mr. Drake is not a good man nor that he is not trying. But, seriously, how many white collar insurance salesmen are selected to be surgeons or to lead the military or to do any other thing that requires and needs experience and qualifications to succeed. Its almost comedic. Why would any prudent person select a position of such importance knowing that they had no qualifications unless either qualifications were unimportant or their ego was clouding their judgment? My goodness, the position of president of a K-12 school facility should require some experience and qualifications. But apparently, the Goodpasture Board (which was under the control of Bill Ruhl and Doyle Tidwell at the time) wanted something other than an individual with experience and qualifications in leading an educational institution when they selected Mr. Drake. Perhaps they felt that an individual with experience and qualifications might not agree with the unguided manner in which the board of directors has allowed Goodpasture to operate since the early 1990's that has contributed to its decline as an educational facility.

No doubt, Goodpasture knows how to recruit atheletes but does it operate its sports program as a first priority or does it operate its academic program as a first priority. I think, at best, Christian principles are 3rd or 4th in priority.

I am very disappointed in and and concerned about the future of the school unless, as with Madison, the parents stand up and demand that they be allowed to remove the existing board and appoint capable, competent men and women to take a good hard look at the school and set it back on a path of educating young men and women in a Christian environment as was originally intended.
You are correct that Gil Drake has never worked in education but the school is getting better since he took over. I am a graduate of Goodpasture, my kids attend there, and I have had family members teach under both men and there is no comparison. Mr. Ruhl was always for the student/parent when there was as question of who was at fault. Mr. Drake has surrounded himself with people who know education and the school is on the way back. Mr. Drake's job is not to educate the kids, his job is to ensure the the teachers and leaders have the tools to teach. How many CEO's look over the CPA's paperwork? I do not think any do, they have hired people who know what to look for and how to direct them in the way to go. Mr. Drake has had to spend a lot of money to improve the school because it has been neglected for so long. There are so many improvements that have taken place in the last 3 years since Gil Drake took over that they are too numerous to mention. We now have Devo's in the elementary where we did not in the past, the kids are learing spanish in the younger classes, the teachers actually want to come to class and teach. That should be enough. Yes you are correct that several teachers were wanting to leave, but that was last year. When Mr. Drake was asked to leave by Mr. Ruhl it was behind the boards knowledge. Once teachers found out that Mr Ruhl might come back over 200 calls were made to Davidson Acad. alone for application and 14 teachers were planning on leaving. Does that tell you how bad it was? Yes my facts are correct because I have family that was going to leave Goodpasture and friends at Davidson that can verify it.

I do want to keep putting down Mr. Ruhl, but the school was in bad shape. It will take several years for the school to get back to where it needs to be....educating kids and letting the teachers do the job they were hired to do.

The PTO is a wonderful tool and we need to get involved with it. We finally have a leader who will stand up for the teachers and not fold under the parents who want their way with money.

Pray for Mr. Drake and his family.
Quote
Like
Share