God the Father and Jesus Christ the Son

Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

February 27th, 2017, 6:02 pm #11

I was reading the post this morning, and wanted to put my thoughts on paper about God and his son Jesus Christ. I hope y'all don't mind my sharing. If anyone has anything to add please do so. I pray we all can come to a better understanding! Excuse any bad punctuation. I was just writing as I was thinking.

God had a plan or idea=father
Idea into existence human Jesus=son

Prophecy fulfilled which proves God is true. Man cannot save himself, and needed to be shown the way to true life. This is the role that Jesus was created for as a servant.

God is thought idea mind
Jesus is word body
Spirit is breath

Man has a body
" Spirit
". Breath of life. (We aren't God)

What if there is another reality-spiritual realm-man cannot see this but he can think about it, which we are told to to think about spiritual things and not things of this world. God is spirit and man cannot see spirit as we are still in the human realm and in a body. God has reached thru this barrier many times in the past as the scriptures attest. He chose this last age to reach thru by a mediator who has been given all authority, because he, Jesus, is the image of God. He would be what God would look like if he had a body.

Perhaps the conflict comes from the nature of Jesus. If we think about when our parents conceive us as children. Who puts the spirit inside that baby? That would be God. He also sparks this breath of life. The miraculous birth of Jesus is not a sexual act, but an act of creation. This is the miracle! Mary was a vessel, but God sparked the birth, a fully human baby, using Mary's seed as a genetic relative of Abraham. Who grows and experiences the same human frailties that we do, yet remains sinless. How can you know what someone suffers, unless you walk in their shoes? This is a lesson to us on empathy. How can we complain about our life when there is always someone else who has suffered worse. We show the kingdom inside of us when we can serve and have empathy with others who are less fortunate.

Jesus is fully human, and he has a spirit. We must always keep in mind that he came as a servant to mankind, and was crucified, but the spirit never dies. Just as when we die, our flesh goes to dust, but our spirit returns to God in the spiritual realm. Perhaps this realm in actuality is side by side with ours. Kind of like a parallel universe? Jesus came to show us as the mediator between man and God. He is now in a spiritual form, we can't see, but we know He is real, and He cares for his flock of lost spirits. Our commission is to grow the kingdom, and search out those who believe, and God will give the increase of knowledge when those souls are ready to receive it! This is the faith hope and charity we should be teaching to others!

I also wanted to add that in the physical realm things work by certain laws, but perhaps in the spiritual realm those laws are not the same and in this realm, earth, we can only imagine how things operate in the spiritual, due to the limitations of our bodies.
In many respects the civilized world is more advanced than the "postomodern" which rejects anything that does not come out of their own vain imagination which God says is "only evil continually." The great loss was turning The Christian SCHOOL into a religious institution so that Calvin could ask "Why should the plowing oxen starve while the lazy asses starve?"

In addition to murdering lots of people the Crusades brought many of the classical writings back with them and hasten the enlightement and the escape from the Catholic Pulpits and burning stakes. For instance, Cicero in Tusculan Disputations

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/14988/14 ... 4988-h.htm

Cic. Tusc. 1.10 Tusculan.Cicero.book.1. But what I have said as to the heart, the blood, the brain, air, or fire being the soul, are common opinions: the others are only entertained by individuals; and, indeed, there were many among the ancients who held singular opinions on this subject, of whom the latest was Aristoxenus, a man who was both a musician and a philosopher .

Aristoxenus is used by the Instrumentalists as PROOF for using music in the SCHOOL OF THE WORD. Pythagoras is connected to THE WORLD VIEW or the KOSMOS, the Ecumenical or the kingdom of the devil at a progressive church near you.

He maintained a certain straining of the body, like what is called harmony in music, to be the soul, and believed that, from the figure and nature of the whole body, various motions are excited, as sounds are from an instrument. He adhered steadily to his system, and yet he said something, the nature of which, whatever it was, had been detailed and explained a great while before by Plato.

Xenocrates denied that the soul had any figure, or anything like a body; but said it was a number, the power of which, as Pythagoras had fancied, some ages before, was the greatest in nature: his master,


This was one of the sects in Romans 14 which Paul silences so that in Romans 15 ignoring self-pleasure (acting, music) "we might use one mind and one mouth to speak that which is written for our learning.

Plato, imagined a threefold soul, a dominant portion of which--that is to say, reason--he had lodged in the head, as in a tower; and the other two parts--namely, anger and desire--he made subservient to this one, and allotted them distinct abodes, placing anger in the breast, and desire under the præcordia.

But Dicæarchus, in that discourse of some learned disputants, held at Corinth, which he details to us in three books--in the first book introduces many speakers; and in the other two he introduces a certain Pherecrates, an old man of Phthia, who, as he said, was descended from Deucalion [Noah]; asserting, that there is in fact no such thing at all as a soul, but that it is a name without a meaning; and that it is idle to use the expression "animals," or "animated beings;" that neither men nor beasts have minds or souls, but that all that power by which we act or perceive is equally infused into every living creature, and is inseparable from the body, for if it were not, it would be nothing; nor is there anything whatever really existing except body, which is a single and simple thing, so fashioned as to live and have its sensations in consequence of the regulations of nature.

Aristotle, a man superior to all others, both in genius and industry (I always except Plato), after having embraced these four known sorts of principles, from which all things deduce their origin, imagines that there is a certain fifth nature, from whence comes the soul; for to think, to foresee, to learn, to teach, to invent anything, and many other attributes of the same kind, such as to remember, to love, to hate, to desire, to fear, to be pleased or displeased--these, and others like them, exist, he thinks, in none of those first four kinds: on such account he adds a fifth kind, which has no name, and so by a new name he calls the soul, as if it were a certain continued and perpetual motion.


And to prove that most religionists never made it past the Bible or the Enlightenment.

Quint. Inst. 1.10.7 7] so too dumb insects produce honey, whose taste is beyond the skill of man to imitate, from different kinds of flowers and juices. Shall we marvel then, if oratory, the highest gift of providence to man, needs the assistance of many arts [a profession, art (music, poetry, musicam, litterarum, “artes elegantes ], which, although they do not reveal or intrude themselves in actual speaking, supply hidden forces and make their silent presence felt?

1 10.9 Who is ignorant of the fact that music, of which I will speak first, was in ancient times the object not merely of intense study but of veneration: in fact Orpheus and Linus, to mention no others, were regarded as uniting the roles of musician, poet and philosopher. Both were of divine origin, while the former, because by the marvel of his music he soothed the savage breast, is recorded to have drawn after him not merely beasts of the wild, but rocks and trees.


A. Mousikos “leges musicae,” the rules of music “sonus citharae, modos or melody
B. Vates a soothsayer A poet; a poetess (the oldest name for a poet; but it fell into contempt, B. [select] An oracle, i. e. a teacher, master, authority in any art or profession Sibyllae
C. Sophos singer, player of instruments.
D. Judice examine judicially, to judge, be a judge, pass judgment, decide (syn.: judicium facio To condemn = damnare
E. Lĭnus son of Apollo and Psammate, killed him by a blow with the lyre:

[10] So too Timagenes asserts that music is the oldest of the arts related to literature, a statement which is confirmed by the testimony of the greatest of poets in whose songs we read that the praise of heroes and of gods were sung to the music of the lyre at the feasts of kings. Does not lopas, the Vergilian bard, sing

The wandering moon and labours of the Sun
Aen. i. 742.

and the like? whereby the supreme poet manifests most clearly that music is united with the knowledge even of things divine.
11] If this be admitted, music will be a necessity even for an orator, since those fields of knowledge, which were annexed by philosophy on their abandonment by oratory, once were ours and without the knowledge of all such things there can be no perfect eloquence.


Ant that is the ancient, superstitious perhaps part of being Earth Born or of the KOSMOS because Scripture universally connects music and rhetoric to men who who neither intent to teach or others obey God {Isaiah 29; Ezekiel 33} and also of BURNING

[12] There can in any case be no doubt that some of those men whose wisdom is a household word have been earnest students of music: Pythagoras for instance and his followers popularised the belief, which they no doubt had received from earlier teachers, that the universe is constructed on the same principles which were afterwards imitated in [p. 167] the construction of the lyre, and not content merely with emphasising that concord of discordant elements which they style harmony attributed a sound to the motions of the celestial bodies. Note1

Note 1 The music of the spheres: cp. the vision of Er in Plato (Rcp. 10) and the Somnium Scipionis of Cicero. The sounds produced by the heavenly bodies correspond to the notes of the heptachord.


Wise is SAPIO Suggest be inspired by God, high minded, proud SOPHOS mostly of poets and musicians, Pi.O.1.9, P.1.42, 3.113; en kithara, sophōtatos as a title, esp. of lawyers or professors, legomenōn ponērōn men, 2. of things, toilsome, painful, grievous, “erga” Hom.Epigr.14.20; “nousōn ponēroteron” Thgn. 274; “phortion” Ar.Pl.352. phort-ion , to, THE LADED BURDEN RELIEVED BY: Matthew 11.30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light."

Xen. Anab. 7.1.37On the next day Coeratadas arrived with his sacrificial victims and his soothsayer, and there followed him twenty men loaded with barley-meal, another twenty with wine, three with olives, another man with as big a load of garlic as he could carry, and another with onions. After setting down all these things, as though for distribution, he proceeded to sacrifice.

A Soothsayer is manti^s Sibulla:— diviner, seer, prophet of Apollo of the Pythian priestess. Miriam was called a prophetess or a SOOTHSAYER: in Egypt she was the Primary Speaker or PARASITE.
“quas tu mulieres quos tu parasitos loquere,”

[14] It is recorded that the greatest generals played on the lyre and the pipe, and that the armies of Sparta were fired to martial ardour by the strains [Modos] of music. And WHAT ELSE is the function of the horns and trumpets attached to our legions? The louder the concert of their notes, the greater is the glorious supremacy of our arms over all the nations of the earth.

Again, those who claim that PSALLO ever meant "musical melody" claim that God and Paul were so ignorant that they didn't know about the word MODOS or MELODY. Scripture never speaks of musical melody but noise because God SUPPLIED NOT A VERSE in musical meter. God BREATH the Spirit and Jesus SPOKE "without measure", METRON or musical melody. SPEAK is the opposite of ODE or any sing-song presentation claiming to TEACH that which is written for our learning.

This is the story of the Levites who performed WORK SONGS to force even Jewish people into slavery to build a temple God had not commanded. They just built that temple without sound.
Last edited by Ken.Sublett on February 27th, 2017, 8:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

March 2nd, 2017, 1:24 am #12

Dionysus or Bacchus was the old wineskins god which Jesus repudiated when He called the Jewish men BOYS and refused to bow down, sing or lament and dance as a result of the Wineskins initiation. The Jews who were influenced by the Abomination in the Temple holy places hoped that the Messiah would be Dionysus. Dionysus is the god of LENT where you need to exhaust your charismatic and sexual needs BEFORE you observed Easter or Ishtar Day.

Nietzsche in Tragedy was aware of his own age that uncertainty produced a huge collective orgy what Paull called WRATH. To anyone with ears they will hear what Joseph Campbell and the Greeks called CRACKING AWAY to an arcahic of tribal form of madness. Therefore, rather than seeing this terrorism as the cave men saw it as proof that the "gods" had spoken to them we MUST see it is the GROUP MENTALITY produced as a goal of the CHANGELINGS collapsing into GROUP MADNESS.

In these Greek festivals, for the first time nature achieves its artistic jubilee. In them, for the first time,the tearing apart of the principii individuationis [the individualizing principle] becomes an artistic phenomenon.

Here that dreadful witches' potion of lust and cruelty was without power. The strange mixture and ambiguity in the emotions of the Dionysian celebrant remind him, as healing potions remind him of deadly poison, of that sense that pain awakens joy, that the jubilation in his chest rips out cries of agony.

From the most sublime joy echoes the cry of horror or the longingly plaintive lament over an irreparable loss.

In those Greek festivals it was as if a sentimental feature of nature is breaking out, as if nature has to sigh over her dismemberment into separate individuals.

The language of song and poetry of such a doubly defined celebrant was for the Homeric Greek world something new and unheard of.

Dionysian music especially awoke in that world fear and terror [Coupled with Pan and panic]. If music was apparently already known as an Apollonian art, this music, strictly speaking, was a rhythmic pattern like the sound of waves, whose artistic power had developed for presenting Apollonian states of mind. The music of Apollo was Doric architecture expressed in sound, but only in intimate tones, characteristic of the cithara [a traditional stringed instrument}.

The un-Apollonian character of Dionysian music keeps such an element of gentle caution at a distance, and with that turns music generally into emotionally disturbing tonal power.


This music was based on wind instruments, drums and cymbals and the feeling of awe it induced was being frightened into a state which produces all of the depression while making you feel good while they pick your pocked.

There are several version of the Hireos Gamos such as the garden of eden, Mount Sinai, The Song of Solomon, the Abomination in the temple, and the Holy Harlot of Revelation 17f in a pseudo church near you.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

March 2nd, 2017, 8:27 pm #13

1. Jesus ALWAYS says that He is the SON of God.

We repeat that the concept of being foreordained says that those who Obey and are Baptized as the response to the only INVITATION are then PREDESTINED TO BE CONFORMED TO THE IMAGE OF GOD'S SON.

In another sense, God's Little flock which He gave to Jesus to come and rescue are the LOST SPIRITS. The are IN the World but they are not OF THE WORLD. That little flock is in a sheltered Rock or the concept of UMBRELLICUM. Those who boast about stirring up storms or worship wars are called "from below" or "earth born." They have a mind or spirit but they will never have A Holy Spirit. The world, kosmos or ecumenical says they want to make MANY DOORS into YOUR sheepfold. Being DOCTORS OF THE LAW means that they are marked by Jesus as "taking away the key to knowledge."

John 10:1 Verily, verily, I say unto you,
<font color="#FFFFFF">.....
He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold,
.....but climbeth up some other way,
.....the same is a thief and a robber
John 10:2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
John 10:3 To him the porter openeth;
.....and the sheep hear his voice:
.....and he calleth his own sheep by name,
.....and leadeth them out.
John 10:4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep,
.....he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him:
.....for they know his voice.
John 10:5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him:
.....for they know not the voice of strangers.


attend or obey the will, Not we seem with fond desire to tread in vain
along a lengthening road, yet faint and fall
when straining to the utmost, and the tongue
is palsied, and the body's wonted power
obeys not, and we have no speech or cry:
so unto Turnus, whatsoever way
his valiant spirit moved, the direful Fiend
stopped in the act his will.

2. The Jews claimed
John 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not;
.....but for BLASPHEMY;
.....and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.


3. Jesus called those who accused Him with blasphemy, BLASPHEMERS.
John 10:36 Say ye of him,
.....WHOM "Whom" is not the "Father."
.....the
.....Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world,
Thou BLASPHPHEMEST
.....because I said, I am the SON OF GOD
John 10:37 If I do NOT the works OF MY FATHER, believe me not.


The Logos or Word is the Regulative Principle which is the OPPOSITE of any human song or sermon or music or opinion or experience. If they do NOT speak that which is written the Spirit OF Christ says in advance that THERE IS NO LIGHT IN THEM. If you defend or support them and do not cast them out then THAT IS WHAT GOD WANTS YOU TO DO.

Jesus spoke the WORD, Logos or regulative principle which God breathed into him.
Those who CANNOT HEAR hold workshops to MOCK the Logos or Regulative Principle.
They Speak ON THEIR OWN and Jesus marks them as the SONS OF THE DEVIL.
Almost everyone will follow them into MANY gates including WOLVES.
A WOLF among the Greek Students ia a "boy lover".

The Jews claimed that Jesus claimed to BE God
Jesus Said that they BLASPHEMED
Because He ALWAYS claimed to be the SON of God and He had nothing which the Father had not given to HIm.

John 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham’s children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
John 8:40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
John 8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
John 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
John 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
John 8:45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not..






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Last edited by Ken.Sublett on March 3rd, 2017, 2:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

March 7th, 2017, 10:42 pm #14

I was reading the post this morning, and wanted to put my thoughts on paper about God and his son Jesus Christ. I hope y'all don't mind my sharing. If anyone has anything to add please do so. I pray we all can come to a better understanding! Excuse any bad punctuation. I was just writing as I was thinking.

God had a plan or idea=father
Idea into existence human Jesus=son

Prophecy fulfilled which proves God is true. Man cannot save himself, and needed to be shown the way to true life. This is the role that Jesus was created for as a servant.

God is thought idea mind
Jesus is word body
Spirit is breath

Man has a body
" Spirit
". Breath of life. (We aren't God)

What if there is another reality-spiritual realm-man cannot see this but he can think about it, which we are told to to think about spiritual things and not things of this world. God is spirit and man cannot see spirit as we are still in the human realm and in a body. God has reached thru this barrier many times in the past as the scriptures attest. He chose this last age to reach thru by a mediator who has been given all authority, because he, Jesus, is the image of God. He would be what God would look like if he had a body.

Perhaps the conflict comes from the nature of Jesus. If we think about when our parents conceive us as children. Who puts the spirit inside that baby? That would be God. He also sparks this breath of life. The miraculous birth of Jesus is not a sexual act, but an act of creation. This is the miracle! Mary was a vessel, but God sparked the birth, a fully human baby, using Mary's seed as a genetic relative of Abraham. Who grows and experiences the same human frailties that we do, yet remains sinless. How can you know what someone suffers, unless you walk in their shoes? This is a lesson to us on empathy. How can we complain about our life when there is always someone else who has suffered worse. We show the kingdom inside of us when we can serve and have empathy with others who are less fortunate.

Jesus is fully human, and he has a spirit. We must always keep in mind that he came as a servant to mankind, and was crucified, but the spirit never dies. Just as when we die, our flesh goes to dust, but our spirit returns to God in the spiritual realm. Perhaps this realm in actuality is side by side with ours. Kind of like a parallel universe? Jesus came to show us as the mediator between man and God. He is now in a spiritual form, we can't see, but we know He is real, and He cares for his flock of lost spirits. Our commission is to grow the kingdom, and search out those who believe, and God will give the increase of knowledge when those souls are ready to receive it! This is the faith hope and charity we should be teaching to others!

I also wanted to add that in the physical realm things work by certain laws, but perhaps in the spiritual realm those laws are not the same and in this realm, earth, we can only imagine how things operate in the spiritual, due to the limitations of our bodies.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

August 1st, 2017, 2:54 am #15

I was reading the post this morning, and wanted to put my thoughts on paper about God and his son Jesus Christ. I hope y'all don't mind my sharing. If anyone has anything to add please do so. I pray we all can come to a better understanding! Excuse any bad punctuation. I was just writing as I was thinking.

God had a plan or idea=father
Idea into existence human Jesus=son

Prophecy fulfilled which proves God is true. Man cannot save himself, and needed to be shown the way to true life. This is the role that Jesus was created for as a servant.

God is thought idea mind
Jesus is word body
Spirit is breath

Man has a body
" Spirit
". Breath of life. (We aren't God)

What if there is another reality-spiritual realm-man cannot see this but he can think about it, which we are told to to think about spiritual things and not things of this world. God is spirit and man cannot see spirit as we are still in the human realm and in a body. God has reached thru this barrier many times in the past as the scriptures attest. He chose this last age to reach thru by a mediator who has been given all authority, because he, Jesus, is the image of God. He would be what God would look like if he had a body.

Perhaps the conflict comes from the nature of Jesus. If we think about when our parents conceive us as children. Who puts the spirit inside that baby? That would be God. He also sparks this breath of life. The miraculous birth of Jesus is not a sexual act, but an act of creation. This is the miracle! Mary was a vessel, but God sparked the birth, a fully human baby, using Mary's seed as a genetic relative of Abraham. Who grows and experiences the same human frailties that we do, yet remains sinless. How can you know what someone suffers, unless you walk in their shoes? This is a lesson to us on empathy. How can we complain about our life when there is always someone else who has suffered worse. We show the kingdom inside of us when we can serve and have empathy with others who are less fortunate.

Jesus is fully human, and he has a spirit. We must always keep in mind that he came as a servant to mankind, and was crucified, but the spirit never dies. Just as when we die, our flesh goes to dust, but our spirit returns to God in the spiritual realm. Perhaps this realm in actuality is side by side with ours. Kind of like a parallel universe? Jesus came to show us as the mediator between man and God. He is now in a spiritual form, we can't see, but we know He is real, and He cares for his flock of lost spirits. Our commission is to grow the kingdom, and search out those who believe, and God will give the increase of knowledge when those souls are ready to receive it! This is the faith hope and charity we should be teaching to others!

I also wanted to add that in the physical realm things work by certain laws, but perhaps in the spiritual realm those laws are not the same and in this realm, earth, we can only imagine how things operate in the spiritual, due to the limitations of our bodies.
Semiramis was the original Babylon Mother of Harlots: she repeats in Revelation 17 and in Revelation 18 her ministers are "lusted after fruits" as the same prophetic types in Amos 8. She uses craftsmen or any religious teknokrat, singer or instrument players. John calls them Sorcerers and says that they CAST ALIVE INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE.

She is also marked by the rise of a radical "trinity" invented in 1938.

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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

August 3rd, 2017, 3:21 am #16

Dianna sent me this link to the Babylon Talmud as the TEXT of Messianic Jews featured at LU lectures.
http://www.come-and-hear.com/berakoth/b ... #chapter_i

The first part I looked at sounds like John Mark Hicks pattern for the Lord's Supper: God eats with us while we burn the fat:

Babylonian Talmud: Tractate Berakoth

Folio 2a

CHAPTER I

MISHNAH. FROM WHAT TIME MAY ONE RECITE THE SHEMA' IN THE EVENING? FROM THE TIME THAT THE PRIESTS ENTER [THEIR HOUSES] IN ORDER TO EAT THEIR TERUMAH1 UNTIL THE END OF THE FIRST WATCH.2 THESE ARE THE WORDS OF R. ELIEZER. THE SAGES SAY: UNTIL MIDNIGHT. R. GAMALIEL SAYS: UNTIL THE DAWN COMES UP.3 ONCE IT HAPPENED THAT HIS4 SONS CAME HOME [LATE] FROM A WEDDING FEAST AND THEY SAID TO HIM: WE HAVE NOT YET RECITED THE [EVENING] SHEMA'. HE SAID TO THEM: IF THE DAWN HAS NOT YET COME UP YOU ARE STILL BOUND TO RECITE. AND NOT IN RESPECT TO THIS ALONE DID THEY SO DECIDE, BUT WHEREVER THE SAGES SAY UNTIL MIDNIGHT', THE PRECEPT MAY BE PERFORMED UNTIL THE DAWN COMES UP. THE PRECEPT OF BURNING THE FAT AND THE [SACRIFICIAL] PIECES, TOO, MAY BE PERFORMED TILL THE DAWN COMES UP.5 SIMILARLY, ALL [THE OFFERINGS] THAT ARE TO BE EATEN WITHIN ONE DAY MAY LAWFULLY BE CONSUMED TILL THE COMING UP OF THE DAWN. WHY THEN DID THE SAGES SAY 'UNTIL MIDNIGHT'? IN ORDER TO KEEP A MAN FAR FROM TRANSGRESSION.

GEMARA. On what does the Tanna base himself that he commences: FROM WHAT TIME?6 Furthermore, why does he deal first with the evening [Shema']? Let him begin with the morning [Shema']! — The Tanna bases himself on the Scripture, where it is written [And thou shalt recite them] … when thou liest down and when thou risest up,7 and he states [the oral law] thus: When does the time of the recital of the Shema' of lying down begin? When the priests enter to eat their terumah.8 And if you like, I can answer: He learns [the precedence of the evening] from the account of the creation of the world, where it is written, And there was evening and there was morning, one day.9 Why then does he teach in the sequel: THE MORNING [SHEMA'] IS PRECEDED BY TWO BENEDICTIONS AND FOLLOWED BY ONE. THE EVENING [SHEMA'] IS PRECEDED BY TWO BENEDICTIONS AND FOLLOWED BY TWO?10 Let him there, too, mention the evening [Shema'] first? — The Tanna commences with the evening [Shema'], and proceeds then to the morning [Shema']. While dealing with the morning [Shema'], he expounds all the matters relating to it, and then he returns again to the matters relating to the evening [Shema'].

The Master said: FROM THE TIME THAT THE PRIESTS ENTER TO EAT THEIR 'TERUMAH'. When do the priests eat terumah? From the time of the appearance of the stars. Let him then say: 'From the time of the appearance of the stars'? — This very thing he wants to teach us, in passing, that the priests may eat terumah from the time of the appearance of the stars. And he also wants to teach us that the expiatory offering is not indispensable,11 as it has been taught:12 And when the sun sets we-taher,13 the setting of the sun is indispensable [as a condition of his fitness] to eat terumah, but the expiatory offering is not indispensable to enable him to eat terumah. But how do you know that these words 'and the sun sets' mean the setting of the sun, and this 'we-taher' means that the day clears away?

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August 3rd, 2017, 7:54 pm #17

I was reading the post this morning, and wanted to put my thoughts on paper about God and his son Jesus Christ. I hope y'all don't mind my sharing. If anyone has anything to add please do so. I pray we all can come to a better understanding! Excuse any bad punctuation. I was just writing as I was thinking.

God had a plan or idea=father
Idea into existence human Jesus=son

Prophecy fulfilled which proves God is true. Man cannot save himself, and needed to be shown the way to true life. This is the role that Jesus was created for as a servant.

God is thought idea mind
Jesus is word body
Spirit is breath

Man has a body
" Spirit
". Breath of life. (We aren't God)

What if there is another reality-spiritual realm-man cannot see this but he can think about it, which we are told to to think about spiritual things and not things of this world. God is spirit and man cannot see spirit as we are still in the human realm and in a body. God has reached thru this barrier many times in the past as the scriptures attest. He chose this last age to reach thru by a mediator who has been given all authority, because he, Jesus, is the image of God. He would be what God would look like if he had a body.

Perhaps the conflict comes from the nature of Jesus. If we think about when our parents conceive us as children. Who puts the spirit inside that baby? That would be God. He also sparks this breath of life. The miraculous birth of Jesus is not a sexual act, but an act of creation. This is the miracle! Mary was a vessel, but God sparked the birth, a fully human baby, using Mary's seed as a genetic relative of Abraham. Who grows and experiences the same human frailties that we do, yet remains sinless. How can you know what someone suffers, unless you walk in their shoes? This is a lesson to us on empathy. How can we complain about our life when there is always someone else who has suffered worse. We show the kingdom inside of us when we can serve and have empathy with others who are less fortunate.

Jesus is fully human, and he has a spirit. We must always keep in mind that he came as a servant to mankind, and was crucified, but the spirit never dies. Just as when we die, our flesh goes to dust, but our spirit returns to God in the spiritual realm. Perhaps this realm in actuality is side by side with ours. Kind of like a parallel universe? Jesus came to show us as the mediator between man and God. He is now in a spiritual form, we can't see, but we know He is real, and He cares for his flock of lost spirits. Our commission is to grow the kingdom, and search out those who believe, and God will give the increase of knowledge when those souls are ready to receive it! This is the faith hope and charity we should be teaching to others!

I also wanted to add that in the physical realm things work by certain laws, but perhaps in the spiritual realm those laws are not the same and in this realm, earth, we can only imagine how things operate in the spiritual, due to the limitations of our bodies.
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Dianna,

The title of the thread is perfect: "God the Father and Jesus Christ the Son" -- it is scriptural.

The conjunction "and" is extremely significant.

When God sent the Messiah to earth some two millennia ago, God did not send Himself apparently to be born (become a baby), to suffer, to die and be buried, and to be raised from the dead.

It is erroneous to assume that "the Virgin Mary" gave birth to God; that God died on the cross and that God was raided from the dead.

God DID NOT become flesh; it was "the Word" OF God that became flesh (John 1:1,14). God is a spirit and a spirit cannot become flesh; otherwise, it is no longer a spirit. It may be difficult for the human mind to comprehend that a "word" [spoken or written] can become flesh. But that's what happened -- the Word of God (what "God said") became flesh.

Yes, when Jesus was on earth with God in heaven, the Father (also the God of Jesus) and His Son were in constant communication with each other in their relationship. (The book of John clearly explains all this.)

Many in Christendom just cannot accept the truth when Jesus declared: "I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I" (John 14:28, KJV. They reject Jesus' own declaration in defense of their preconceived position that Jesus is God's co-God.[/color]

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Joined: February 11th, 2016, 11:16 pm

August 4th, 2017, 10:44 pm #18

I have been meaning to come back and correct this sentence: "He would be what God would look like if he had a body." In the earthly realm Jesus is the son of God, the word of God. The reflection of God was seen in the face of Jesus, meaning Christ's spirit or mind revealed thru speaking. We reveal our spirit or mind when we speak to one another. Please correct me or add further comments!
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

August 5th, 2017, 4:27 am #19

True. Jesus is the image of all that we can comprehend about God. My thesis which I am still researching and have found lots of evidence that people OF TRUTH or OF FAITH are lost spirits Jesus was sent to seek and save. His sheep can hear His voice but those OF the WORLD cannot and despise those who can.

1John 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us,
.....that we should be called the sons of God:
.....therefore the world knoweth us not,
.....because it KNEW him not.

1John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God,
.....and it doth not yet appear what we shall be:
.....but we know that, when he shall appear,
.....we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

1John 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

The WORLD is the Kosmos, Ecumenical or the kingdom of Satan. If you watch TV you know that there is a great battle going on and the church has its own DEEP STATE. They are the DUST people or OF the earth and do not have the Spirit in them which allows reading the truth hidden in plain sight.

1John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth
.....not that Jesus Christ is come in the FLESH is not of God:
.....and this is that spirit of antichrist,
.....whereof ye have heard that it should come;
.....and even now already is it in the WORLD.

1John 4:4 Ye are OF God, little children, and have overcome them:
.....because greater is he that is in you,
.....than he that is in the WORLD.

1John 4:5 They are OF the WORLD:
.....therefore speak they OF the world,
.....and the world heareth them.

1John 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us;
.....he that is not OF God heareth not us.
.....Hereby KNOW we the spirit OF truth,
.....and the spirit OF error.

1John 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God,
.....when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1John 5:3 For this is the love of God,
.....that we keep his commandments:
.....and his commandments are not grievous.

1John 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the WORLD: [them]
.....and this is the victory that overcometh the world,
.....even our faith.
1John 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world,
.....but he that believeth that Jesus is the SON of God?

That explains why family and friends or preachers and elders go glassy eyed when you quote too much Scripture to them.

Jesus says that those who claim that he maketh Himself God blaspheme because HE always said that he was the SON of God. I am pretty slow on my feet today and have been busy on another forum.
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Joined: February 11th, 2016, 11:16 pm

August 5th, 2017, 7:59 pm #20

What did the demons know about Jesus? They always say that he is the son of God. Even Satan calls him the son of God.
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