God's Wall Of Honor

Sonny Elliot
Sonny Elliot

November 16th, 2010, 2:01 am #1

This article is NOT man's opinion but rather GOD'S scathing rebuke DIRECTLY from HIS holy and divine WORD toward "ALL" change agents who have adulterated GOD'S WORD through leaving the old paths of New Testament Christianity. If the change agents (Rubel Shelly, Max Lucado, Leroy Garrett, John Mark Hicks, Joe Beam, Rick Atchley, Al Maxey, John York, Mike Cope, Ronnie Norman, Jay Guin, etc.) do not REPENT and adhere to these SCRIPTURES they shall never be preachers on God's Wall Of Honor in the Lamb's Book Of Life and shall be condemned to hellfire for "ALL" ETERNITY.

1. Honoring their parents - Exodus 20:12 "honor your father and your mother" (also Deut. 5:16 and Eph 6:2)

2. Honoring God - 1 Samuel 2:30 "Those who honor me(God) I will honor"

3. Honoring God with their wealth - Proverbs 3:9 "honor the LORD with your wealth"

4. Honoring others - Romans 12:10 "honor one another above yourselves"

5. Honoring God with their body - 1 Corinthians 6:20 "therefore honor God with your body" (also 1 Thess. 4:4)

6. Honoring their marriage - Hebrews 13:4 "Marriage should be honored by all"

7. Honorable living in every way - Hebrews 13:18 "and desire to live honorably in every way"

Change agents need to WAKE UP!

Romans 14:11 "And do this, understanding the present time. The hour has come for you to WAKE UP from your slumber, because our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed."

Change agents, you have been MARKED and WARNED! (Rom. 16:17)

Now I am going to relax and fix me a turkey sandwich with pickles.

-Sonny Elliot
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

November 16th, 2010, 6:57 am #2

Sonny, this is an excellent message for all members of the body of Christ -- that includes you and me, preachers and teachers, even "change agents," et al.

Pardon me if I sense in your message being addressed to "change agents" that there is that tone of sarcasm, spitefulness, insincerity. I could be wrong. If so, disregard this paragraph. But it's some thought to process and consider, anyway.

From your list of admonitions to the "change agents," you mentioned everything BUT their activities and efforts to restructure and reorganize the church, the body of Christ; their deceptive schemes and methodologies for "church growth" while disrupting and dividing peaceful congregations; their inability to start their own denomination from scratch, since they're so dissatisfied with the simplicity of New Testament teachings.

By now, we've learned and known quite a bit about "change agents" -- that they are:

<ol>[*]Men who do harm to the body of Christ while being supported to build it up.
</li>[*]Men who claim to be helping the church while fomenting chaos and strife within.
</li>[*]Men who rush forward to offer a fix for the problems they themselves have created. They offer staff services to help churches resolve the conflicts caused by their changes.
</li>[*]Men who seek to build their status and influence by bashing and attempting to discredit the godly preachers who blazed the trail before them and built the congregations where they now serve.
</li>[*]Men whose teaching and practice lowers respect for the authority of God's Word.
</li>[*]Men who refuse to recognize and honor the church of Christ as the body of Christ.
</li>[*]Men who think they know more about how to worship God than did Christ . . .
</li>[*]Men who undertake to change the unchangeable kingdom of Christ.
</li>[*]Men who presume that the new is better than the old in the realm of faith. They care nothing for the old paths (Jer. 6:16). They are like the pagan Athenians, always searching for something new or different.
</li>[*]Men who'd rather not speak boldly of Christ as the "founder" of the church of Christ.
</li>[*]Men who prefer to speak of Campbell and Stone as founders of their denomination.
</li>[*]Men whose favorite word is "grace" to mean salvation without obeying its conditions.
</li>[*]Men who love to speak of "freedom" to ignore Bible teachings on worship restrictions.
</li>[*]Men who love freedom to fellowship and be accepted by denominational bodies.
</li>[*]Men who speak of "patternism" as a sarcastic put down of the brethren true to God's pattern.
</li>[*]Men who thirst for an emotion-based worship in the electronic churches of the televangelists.</li>[/list]
Change agents operate on faulty assumptions:
<ol>[*]That they have discovered a more spiritual kind of religion now than before.
</li>[*]That only they know, understand and appreciate the grace of God.
</li>[*]That only they understand the blessings/benefits of the Holy Spirit's indwelling.
</li>[*]That our concept is "restoration" of a specific congregation from 1st century.
</li>[*]That they have discovered a new and superior approach to Bible interpretation.
<ol>[*]With that they claim to have found the true nature of the church.
</li>[*]In reality, it is the old, emotion-based, subjective approach of Protestantism.
</li>[*]Their Bible is a story book, serving only as a source for quotes for sermons, but not for regulating/guiding the faith, worship & practice of the church.</li>[/list]</li>[*]That we are only interested in the doctrines and practices of the church.
</li>[*]That we are not truly dedicated to Christ and trying to be like him -- they are.
</li>[*]That we are narrow, bigoted, and legalistic -- they're not.
</li>[*]That we claim that we are a perfect church. (Do you claim that?)
</li>[*]That we claim that we have attained complete compliance with every aspect of Christ's will for us. (Do you claim that?)
</li>[*]That we have misunderstood the way men are to be saved.
</li>[*]That we should be labeled "traditionalists" for our unwillingness to change When the truth is this: it is not change that we reject; rather, we reject unlawful departure from God's authorized Word and way.
</li>[*]That they can promote their changes without making one realize that TO DO SO:
<ol>[*]The concept of restoring the original New Testament church is abandoned.
</li>[*]The changes advocated were not a part of the original church.
</li>[*]Ties are severed with those noble saints who went before us. The faith and preaching of those predecessors would be incompatible with the advocates of change ... like oil and water they would not mix
</li>[*]Changes proposed will make the congregation one of 1200 denominations.
</li>[*]You are alienated/out of fellowship with simple Christians -- churches of Christ.
</li>[*]The faith once delivered to the saints is abandoned.
</li>[*]Participation in causing division in the body of Christ is a fearful thought.</li>[/list]</li>[/list]I'm afraid, Sonny, that the "change agents" haven't even heard of the ConcernedMembers website and, therefore, are unaware of your "warnings" for them. So, I would urge you to notify these change agents of your "warnings" by directing them to this site and to your message for them in particular. (Don't forget to ask them to review the list that identifies who the real change agents are, as well as review the list of their faulty assumptions.) We might even be able to provide you with a comprehensive list of the names of these agents.

======================

The lists above have the line items numbered as points of reference in the discussion of specific items.
Last edited by Donnie.Cruz on November 16th, 2010, 4:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Dave
Dave

November 16th, 2010, 2:09 pm #3

The only good point I saw from your diatribe, Donnie, is that the 'change agents' haven even heard of this website.
Each time I come here and see the unChristlike attitude presented here, with the lack of love, and false teachings, I envy those change agents that "haven't even heard of the ConcernedMembers website."
Yes, gents, this is your chance.......tell me not to let the door hit me on the backside on the way out. I just really believe that I would get more out of conversing with a gaggle of geese.



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Dr. Bill Crump
Dr. Bill Crump

November 16th, 2010, 3:36 pm #4

Sonny, this is an excellent message for all members of the body of Christ -- that includes you and me, preachers and teachers, even "change agents," et al.

Pardon me if I sense in your message being addressed to "change agents" that there is that tone of sarcasm, spitefulness, insincerity. I could be wrong. If so, disregard this paragraph. But it's some thought to process and consider, anyway.

From your list of admonitions to the "change agents," you mentioned everything BUT their activities and efforts to restructure and reorganize the church, the body of Christ; their deceptive schemes and methodologies for "church growth" while disrupting and dividing peaceful congregations; their inability to start their own denomination from scratch, since they're so dissatisfied with the simplicity of New Testament teachings.

By now, we've learned and known quite a bit about "change agents" -- that they are:

<ol>[*]Men who do harm to the body of Christ while being supported to build it up.
</li>[*]Men who claim to be helping the church while fomenting chaos and strife within.
</li>[*]Men who rush forward to offer a fix for the problems they themselves have created. They offer staff services to help churches resolve the conflicts caused by their changes.
</li>[*]Men who seek to build their status and influence by bashing and attempting to discredit the godly preachers who blazed the trail before them and built the congregations where they now serve.
</li>[*]Men whose teaching and practice lowers respect for the authority of God's Word.
</li>[*]Men who refuse to recognize and honor the church of Christ as the body of Christ.
</li>[*]Men who think they know more about how to worship God than did Christ . . .
</li>[*]Men who undertake to change the unchangeable kingdom of Christ.
</li>[*]Men who presume that the new is better than the old in the realm of faith. They care nothing for the old paths (Jer. 6:16). They are like the pagan Athenians, always searching for something new or different.
</li>[*]Men who'd rather not speak boldly of Christ as the "founder" of the church of Christ.
</li>[*]Men who prefer to speak of Campbell and Stone as founders of their denomination.
</li>[*]Men whose favorite word is "grace" to mean salvation without obeying its conditions.
</li>[*]Men who love to speak of "freedom" to ignore Bible teachings on worship restrictions.
</li>[*]Men who love freedom to fellowship and be accepted by denominational bodies.
</li>[*]Men who speak of "patternism" as a sarcastic put down of the brethren true to God's pattern.
</li>[*]Men who thirst for an emotion-based worship in the electronic churches of the televangelists.</li>[/list]
Change agents operate on faulty assumptions:
<ol>[*]That they have discovered a more spiritual kind of religion now than before.
</li>[*]That only they know, understand and appreciate the grace of God.
</li>[*]That only they understand the blessings/benefits of the Holy Spirit's indwelling.
</li>[*]That our concept is "restoration" of a specific congregation from 1st century.
</li>[*]That they have discovered a new and superior approach to Bible interpretation.
<ol>[*]With that they claim to have found the true nature of the church.
</li>[*]In reality, it is the old, emotion-based, subjective approach of Protestantism.
</li>[*]Their Bible is a story book, serving only as a source for quotes for sermons, but not for regulating/guiding the faith, worship & practice of the church.</li>[/list]</li>[*]That we are only interested in the doctrines and practices of the church.
</li>[*]That we are not truly dedicated to Christ and trying to be like him -- they are.
</li>[*]That we are narrow, bigoted, and legalistic -- they're not.
</li>[*]That we claim that we are a perfect church. (Do you claim that?)
</li>[*]That we claim that we have attained complete compliance with every aspect of Christ's will for us. (Do you claim that?)
</li>[*]That we have misunderstood the way men are to be saved.
</li>[*]That we should be labeled "traditionalists" for our unwillingness to change When the truth is this: it is not change that we reject; rather, we reject unlawful departure from God's authorized Word and way.
</li>[*]That they can promote their changes without making one realize that TO DO SO:
<ol>[*]The concept of restoring the original New Testament church is abandoned.
</li>[*]The changes advocated were not a part of the original church.
</li>[*]Ties are severed with those noble saints who went before us. The faith and preaching of those predecessors would be incompatible with the advocates of change ... like oil and water they would not mix
</li>[*]Changes proposed will make the congregation one of 1200 denominations.
</li>[*]You are alienated/out of fellowship with simple Christians -- churches of Christ.
</li>[*]The faith once delivered to the saints is abandoned.
</li>[*]Participation in causing division in the body of Christ is a fearful thought.</li>[/list]</li>[/list]I'm afraid, Sonny, that the "change agents" haven't even heard of the ConcernedMembers website and, therefore, are unaware of your "warnings" for them. So, I would urge you to notify these change agents of your "warnings" by directing them to this site and to your message for them in particular. (Don't forget to ask them to review the list that identifies who the real change agents are, as well as review the list of their faulty assumptions.) We might even be able to provide you with a comprehensive list of the names of these agents.

======================

The lists above have the line items numbered as points of reference in the discussion of specific items.
After reading Sonny's list, you initially get a good impression. Then you read his last sentence: "Now I am going to relax and fix me a turkey sandwich with pickles." Your impression instantly fades and you think, "Well, I should have known--Sonny is just being Sonny after all, because his message really seems to carry his familiar tone of sarcasm, spitefulness, and insincerity." After composing such a message, relaxing with a bowl of fat-free ice cream and a slice of low-fat angel food cake would have been much better. Watch that cholesterol!
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AM
AM

November 16th, 2010, 4:06 pm #5

The only good point I saw from your diatribe, Donnie, is that the 'change agents' haven even heard of this website.
Each time I come here and see the unChristlike attitude presented here, with the lack of love, and false teachings, I envy those change agents that "haven't even heard of the ConcernedMembers website."
Yes, gents, this is your chance.......tell me not to let the door hit me on the backside on the way out. I just really believe that I would get more out of conversing with a gaggle of geese.



"...I come here and see the unChristlike attitude presented here, with the lack of love, and false teachings..." this must be you talking to your mirror.

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Fred Whaley
Fred Whaley

November 16th, 2010, 5:01 pm #6

After reading Sonny's list, you initially get a good impression. Then you read his last sentence: "Now I am going to relax and fix me a turkey sandwich with pickles." Your impression instantly fades and you think, "Well, I should have known--Sonny is just being Sonny after all, because his message really seems to carry his familiar tone of sarcasm, spitefulness, and insincerity." After composing such a message, relaxing with a bowl of fat-free ice cream and a slice of low-fat angel food cake would have been much better. Watch that cholesterol!
Mr. Crump there you go being a chump again. You just can't refrain. At least this time it is not toward Dave and at least you have not elevated your behavior to being a prick, just a chump. I learn more all the time though Mr. Crump is even superior in his mind in health and diet advice. On an aside I think Sonny's message is cryptic for those who choose to read his words and statements carefully. Am I right Sonny? Now I will enjoy another cup of coffee.

Fred Whaley

"If you are in the parking lot and have still not quit arguing with the people on the porch, you haven't left the Church of Christ yet."
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Dr. Bill Crump
Dr. Bill Crump

November 16th, 2010, 6:00 pm #7

"...I come here and see the unChristlike attitude presented here, with the lack of love, and false teachings..." this must be you talking to your mirror.
AM, you've obviously noted that Dave delights in pointing his finger (hopefully not THE finger) and accusing those with whom he disagrees of being unloving, false teachers, and un-Christ-like. Then Dave equally delights in turning right around and hurling all manner of hate, insults, and a variety of smear tactics against those same people. The word for that kind of person is "hypocrite." It's as if Dave actually thinks that God approves of his "progressive," abominable behavior. No one should take a person like Dave with any degree of seriousness. He's behaved too much like the immature clown Barney Fife and, hence, has no credibility here.
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Donnie
Donnie

November 16th, 2010, 6:27 pm #8

Sonny, this is an excellent message for all members of the body of Christ -- that includes you and me, preachers and teachers, even "change agents," et al.

Pardon me if I sense in your message being addressed to "change agents" that there is that tone of sarcasm, spitefulness, insincerity. I could be wrong. If so, disregard this paragraph. But it's some thought to process and consider, anyway.

From your list of admonitions to the "change agents," you mentioned everything BUT their activities and efforts to restructure and reorganize the church, the body of Christ; their deceptive schemes and methodologies for "church growth" while disrupting and dividing peaceful congregations; their inability to start their own denomination from scratch, since they're so dissatisfied with the simplicity of New Testament teachings.

By now, we've learned and known quite a bit about "change agents" -- that they are:

<ol>[*]Men who do harm to the body of Christ while being supported to build it up.
</li>[*]Men who claim to be helping the church while fomenting chaos and strife within.
</li>[*]Men who rush forward to offer a fix for the problems they themselves have created. They offer staff services to help churches resolve the conflicts caused by their changes.
</li>[*]Men who seek to build their status and influence by bashing and attempting to discredit the godly preachers who blazed the trail before them and built the congregations where they now serve.
</li>[*]Men whose teaching and practice lowers respect for the authority of God's Word.
</li>[*]Men who refuse to recognize and honor the church of Christ as the body of Christ.
</li>[*]Men who think they know more about how to worship God than did Christ . . .
</li>[*]Men who undertake to change the unchangeable kingdom of Christ.
</li>[*]Men who presume that the new is better than the old in the realm of faith. They care nothing for the old paths (Jer. 6:16). They are like the pagan Athenians, always searching for something new or different.
</li>[*]Men who'd rather not speak boldly of Christ as the "founder" of the church of Christ.
</li>[*]Men who prefer to speak of Campbell and Stone as founders of their denomination.
</li>[*]Men whose favorite word is "grace" to mean salvation without obeying its conditions.
</li>[*]Men who love to speak of "freedom" to ignore Bible teachings on worship restrictions.
</li>[*]Men who love freedom to fellowship and be accepted by denominational bodies.
</li>[*]Men who speak of "patternism" as a sarcastic put down of the brethren true to God's pattern.
</li>[*]Men who thirst for an emotion-based worship in the electronic churches of the televangelists.</li>[/list]
Change agents operate on faulty assumptions:
<ol>[*]That they have discovered a more spiritual kind of religion now than before.
</li>[*]That only they know, understand and appreciate the grace of God.
</li>[*]That only they understand the blessings/benefits of the Holy Spirit's indwelling.
</li>[*]That our concept is "restoration" of a specific congregation from 1st century.
</li>[*]That they have discovered a new and superior approach to Bible interpretation.
<ol>[*]With that they claim to have found the true nature of the church.
</li>[*]In reality, it is the old, emotion-based, subjective approach of Protestantism.
</li>[*]Their Bible is a story book, serving only as a source for quotes for sermons, but not for regulating/guiding the faith, worship & practice of the church.</li>[/list]</li>[*]That we are only interested in the doctrines and practices of the church.
</li>[*]That we are not truly dedicated to Christ and trying to be like him -- they are.
</li>[*]That we are narrow, bigoted, and legalistic -- they're not.
</li>[*]That we claim that we are a perfect church. (Do you claim that?)
</li>[*]That we claim that we have attained complete compliance with every aspect of Christ's will for us. (Do you claim that?)
</li>[*]That we have misunderstood the way men are to be saved.
</li>[*]That we should be labeled "traditionalists" for our unwillingness to change When the truth is this: it is not change that we reject; rather, we reject unlawful departure from God's authorized Word and way.
</li>[*]That they can promote their changes without making one realize that TO DO SO:
<ol>[*]The concept of restoring the original New Testament church is abandoned.
</li>[*]The changes advocated were not a part of the original church.
</li>[*]Ties are severed with those noble saints who went before us. The faith and preaching of those predecessors would be incompatible with the advocates of change ... like oil and water they would not mix
</li>[*]Changes proposed will make the congregation one of 1200 denominations.
</li>[*]You are alienated/out of fellowship with simple Christians -- churches of Christ.
</li>[*]The faith once delivered to the saints is abandoned.
</li>[*]Participation in causing division in the body of Christ is a fearful thought.</li>[/list]</li>[/list]I'm afraid, Sonny, that the "change agents" haven't even heard of the ConcernedMembers website and, therefore, are unaware of your "warnings" for them. So, I would urge you to notify these change agents of your "warnings" by directing them to this site and to your message for them in particular. (Don't forget to ask them to review the list that identifies who the real change agents are, as well as review the list of their faulty assumptions.) We might even be able to provide you with a comprehensive list of the names of these agents.

======================

The lists above have the line items numbered as points of reference in the discussion of specific items.
Dave,

I sense that you've begun to grasp the true nature of the "change agents" operating in the brotherhood. Maybe, just maybe, when you carefully analyze what the church is painfully experiencing, thanks to the destructive efforts of the change agents [no -- it's not "growing pains"], and carefully study the listed items that describe them, you just might see that their objective is to "transform" churches of Christ to Community Churches.

We've already witnessed that objective come to fruition. A living example of that is "Reverend" Max Lucado, "Senior Pastor" of the Oak Hills Church [formerly "of Christ]. (FYI, Mr. Lucado, at speaking engagements and denominational gatherings, loves being addressed as "Reverend," etc.). Why be ashamed of the name "of Christ"? And drop it or remove it? Why be concerned of the stigma of being a member of the "church of Christ"?

We should know by now that characteristic of a Community Church is to drop "of Christ" (as in "Oak Hills Church" or whatever is its former designation, affiliation or association. What do you know? The Community Church Movement has infected and affected not only churches of Christ but also various religious groups. Rick Warren was formerly a Baptist pastor, and he is now Senior Pastor of the Saddleback Community Church in CA.

Now that we know more about the "change agents" and their affinity for the "Community Church" and the "Community Church Movement," let's turn to learning and knowing more about the Restoration Movement -- the history of a heritage that the change agents are attempting to rewrite or revise while attempting also to improvise, reorganize and restructure the New Testament church that they now believe is just another "denomination."

There is a stark contrast of objectives and principles between:
The Restoration Movement: with the men who believed that the New Testament is our guide and that Christ established His church (but unfortunately in Dave's fading memory is about false teachers and false teachings)

--------------------- versus -------------------

The Change Movement: with the "change agents" who believe that the church of Christ is just another denomination and that "the body of Christ" is comprised of all denominations and is, therefore, a "community" of churches (with folks like Dave who accuse those other than the change agents are "false teachers").
Well, Dave, since the change agents do not know about this website, we just want to ensure that Sonny convey the special message to the change agents.
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Dave
Dave

November 16th, 2010, 6:32 pm #9

Mr. Crump there you go being a chump again. You just can't refrain. At least this time it is not toward Dave and at least you have not elevated your behavior to being a prick, just a chump. I learn more all the time though Mr. Crump is even superior in his mind in health and diet advice. On an aside I think Sonny's message is cryptic for those who choose to read his words and statements carefully. Am I right Sonny? Now I will enjoy another cup of coffee.

Fred Whaley

"If you are in the parking lot and have still not quit arguing with the people on the porch, you haven't left the Church of Christ yet."
Well now.......
I am just speechless.
Fred, you are going to get the lecture, from William, about cursing, reviling, and slander like no other.
Be prepared!

Ask William Crump about the time he cursed at Faithsite.com.
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Dr. Bill Crump
Dr. Bill Crump

November 16th, 2010, 6:44 pm #10

Mr. Crump there you go being a chump again. You just can't refrain. At least this time it is not toward Dave and at least you have not elevated your behavior to being a prick, just a chump. I learn more all the time though Mr. Crump is even superior in his mind in health and diet advice. On an aside I think Sonny's message is cryptic for those who choose to read his words and statements carefully. Am I right Sonny? Now I will enjoy another cup of coffee.

Fred Whaley

"If you are in the parking lot and have still not quit arguing with the people on the porch, you haven't left the Church of Christ yet."
"Chump" and "prick." Fred's vocabulary evidently springs from the gutter. But I guess "progressive Christians" see nothing wrong with that, which is no surprise. Yeah, ole Fred is definitely showing his true colors.
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