Joe McKnight
Joe McKnight

June 26th, 2003, 6:41 pm #41

I guess most of you have figured out Ken and Donnie DID NOT show up this morning. You notice in the post below, Ken evades the invitation with more of his raves and rants about nothing. Donnie simply did not answer. In my mind this shows them for what they are. They will not face anyone. They only want to hide behind their keyboard and stir up as much trouble as they can. I hope I'm writing this for their eyes only, as it is my belief there are not many people that visit here for serious study. On this note, I should listen to my own advice, and stop trying to change their minds. It ain't going to happen. Ken is a lost cause. I have had hope for Donnie in the past.

Chuck, Evan, Dal, John, Mr. B, Roger, We have better things to do!

Eddie
Hey eddie
what about our meeting. a year ago you said you could get a meeting with the elders at MAD MADISON, but I guess it is business as usually: Say one thing and mean another. Smoke screen, duck and run. Pick on the weak and beat the sheep. Money talks and everythings else walks. I have given up on the occult at MAD MADISON, it is up to God now.

Eph 5:6
Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

To God be the Glory!
Joe McKnight
Quote
Share

Kenneth Sublett
Kenneth Sublett

June 26th, 2003, 9:29 pm #42

SECRET CONVERSION PART 7

GIVE US A WORSHIP LEADER

One of the signs of the "church growth movement" is the presence of a "worship leader". What is a worship leader?

First, to understand what is happening, you must know about the World Council of Churches. One of its goals is to bring all Churches, Muslin, Christian, Buddhist, Wicca, occultist and pagan religions of all sorts together under one umbrella. They don't hide this.

It was determined around 1962 that the best way to accomplish this goal was through a charismatic and contemporary music format. The best way to implement these changes was through a slow and gradual infiltration, which has become known (among other things) as the "church growth movement."

What we see today, with the rise of the "worship leader," is one of the tools that brings about change in the church. Since "music" is the key to make all this happen, then the "worship leader" will also be the "music" leader.

These people think the word of God needs a little help to reach all the "‘unchurched’ and ‘disenchanted." The "worship leader” has also become a big part of their "outreach ministry."

One of the Deacons at my former church asked the Elders about "worship leaders." Now, these men claim not to be working in "lock step" with the "Church Growth movement," but they sure know about "worship leaders," This what they said:

"IS RESPONSIBLE FOR PLANNING ALL AREAS OF THE WORSHIP SERVICE
AND THEN PRESENTING THESE PLANS TO THE WORSHIP COMMITTEE. THIS INCLUDES
THE LORD’S SUPPER, GIVING, PRAYERS, AND THE READING OF THE LORD,S WORD AS
WELL AS THE SONG SERVICE"(4)
***********
This is a want ad for a "worship leader:"(3)

Job Description: St Matthew’s Lutheran Church is passionate about reaching out to the richly diverse and secular neighbors whom we share the freeway with. We are looking for a Minister of Worship & Celebration (Lay or Ordained) who is wired to empower heart-felt worship using today’s music, multi-media and the arts. We are a grace driven ministry that relies upon team building to reach those who normally would not check out church. We tend to be a bit irreverent. We bring our coffee into worship and do not tend to attract the squeaky clean. We are looking for a leader who knows it’s not about them
**********
There are magazines and web sites(3) dedicated to the “worship leader." This has become a big business. Here is an excerpt form a recent article in a "worship leader" magazine telling a little about what they believe:

The Spoken Voice
1. Speaking - Psalm 34:1 says, "I will extol the Lord at all times; his praise will always be on my lips."
2. Shouting - Psalm 27:6 says, "Then my head will be exalted above the enemies who surround me; at his tabernacle will I sacrifice with shouts of joy; I will sing and make music to the Lord."
3. Singing - Psalm 47:6 says, "Sing praises to God, sing praises to our King, sing praises."

Our Posture
1. Bowing - Psalm 95:6 says, "Come let us bow down in worship, let us kneel before the Lord our Maker."
2. Standing - Psalm 119:120 says, "My flesh trembles in fear of you; I stand in awe of your laws."
3. Dancing - Psalm 149:3 says, "Let them praise his name with dancing and make music to him with tambourine and harp."

Our Hands
1. Playing Instruments - Psalm 33:2, 3 says, "Praise the Lord with the harp; make music to him on the ten stringed lyre. Sing to him a new song; play skillfully, and shout for joy."
2. Clapping - Psalm 47:1 says, "Clap your hands, all you nations; shout to God with cries of joy."
3. Lifting Hands - Psalm 63:4 says, "I will praise you as long as I live, and in your name I will lift up my hands."
**********
They always give David as their license, but, God tells us in Amos 6:5--Woe to those that act like David:

AMOS 6:5
"That chant to the sound of the viol, and invent to themselves instruments of music, like David;"

You may ask, is a "worship leader" Biblical? In a way, they are. You see God created the first "worship leader".

Ezekiel 28:13-16
13 You were in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone was your covering: The sardius, topaz, and diamond, Beryl, onyx, and jasper, Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold. The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes Was prepared for you on the day you were created.
14 You were the anointed cherub who covers; I established you; You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.
15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, Till iniquity was found in you.
16 By the abundance of your trading You became filled with violence within, And you sinned; Therefore I cast you as a profane thing Out of the mountain of God; And I destroyed you, O covering cherub, From the midst of the fiery stones

Note: "tambrels" are tamborines and "pipes" are wind instruments.

It's no wonder that Satan is called the "enchanter." He has been using music from the very beginning to seduce his prey. It started early with the Bablyonian and Egyptian civilizations in which they would dance, clap, sing and play to their gods. The only thing most contemporary Churches are not doing presently is bringing the gods clean cloths everyday.

From the continent of Africa, where Voodoo chants called up the evil spirits to the shores of America , Satan has always been the user of music and the "worship leader" extraordinaire.

Isaiah14:11-12
11 Your pomp is brought down to Sheol, And the sound of your stringed instruments; The maggot is spread under you, And worms cover you.
12 How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, You who weakened the nations!

Let's take a look at how Satan uses others to seduce us with his music:

************
From Musician Carlos Santana:

Santana admits that his success is tied to a spiritual entity. Santana also claims that he has contact with the spirits of musicians who have died, such as Jimi Hendrix and Miles Davis. Santana has claimed that other artists who participated on his album, Supernatural, were brought to him supernaturally to be a part of Metatron's project. He claimed that they heard his music, or were communicated to in dreams, and were told they were to be part of the project.(1)

"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world." (1 John 4:1)
************

Eminem is the most successful artist of the 21st century. His Marshall Mathers LP sold an incredible 1.76 million copies in its first week, which is the highest first-week sale for a solo artist in history:

" I take seven [kids] from [columbine] and stand 'em all in line. Add an AK-47, a revolver, a nine, a Mac-11 and this ought to solve this problem of mine. And that's a whole school of bullies shot up all of the time, 'cause I'm Shady…"

" I take each individual degenerate's head and reach into it, just to see if he's influenced by me, if he listens to music, and if he feeds into this sh**, he's an innocent victim, and becomes a puppet on the string…"
************
Rolling Stone admitted:

"A song or an album can change your life; a great concert will change it on the spot."
***********

Tori Amos, who said that Lucifer sits at her piano and helps her with her music, said:

" Music is the most powerful medium in the world because of the frequencies. You're hitting places in people that remind them that they are more than just this functional being."
***********

Science writer and composer, Robert Jourdain, wrote in his book, Music, The Brain And Ecstacy:

" Music seems to be the most immediate of all the arts. …Music possesses us. …It really is as if some 'other' has entered not just our bodies, but our intentions, taking us over."
**********

Medical Dr. and brain specialist, Richard Pellegrino, who is a consultant to the entertainment industry, wrote an article for Billboard Magazine , about the power of music. Dr. Pellegrino speaks of the incomparable power of music upon the human brain, stating that music has the uncanny power to:

"… trigger a flood of human emotions and images that have the ability to instantaneously produce very powerful changes in emotional states."

Pellegrino went on to declare:

" Take it from a brain guy. In 25 years of working with the brain, I still cannot affect a person's state of mind the way that one simple song can."
********

Eminem states in his song, Marshall Mathers:

"I think I was put here to…destroy your little 4-year-old boy or girl."
********

Frank Zappa, who was quite anti-Christ, said that when he saw a fish on the back of someone's car he identified them as the enemy. He also admitted to the incredible power and influence rock music has over the human race. In an article he wrote for Life Magazine, he stated:

"The ways in which sound affects the human organism are myriad and subtle. The loud sounds and bright lights of today are tremendous indoctrination tools.
********
AC/DC was up-front with their fans when they made it clear that they not only found their fame in a rock band by Satan's power, but that they desired to drag their listeners into eternal damnation with them, "if God's on the left, I'm on the right…I'm gonna take ya to hell…I'm gonna get'cha-Satan got 'cha, Hell's Bells…If you're into evil, you're a friend of mine."
********
Michael Jackson:

"When I hit the stage it’s all of a sudden a magic from somewhere that comes and the spirit just hits you, and you lose control of yourself."

"I wake up from dreams and go, ‘Wow! Put this down on paper!’ The whole thing is strange. You hear the words, everything is right there in front of your face. And you say to yourself, ‘I’m sorry, I just didn’t write this. It’s there already’. I feel that somewhere, someplace, it’s all been done, and I’m the courier bringing it into the world."
*******

From these two sites (1)(2) alone I count well over 85 well known and famous music performers in all areas of music, Christian, blues, and Rock N Roll, that profess to be Satanically driven, or use pagan symbolism in their performances.

This list includes people like Robert Johnson-The Father of Blues, Elvis Presley, The Beatles, and even Amy Grant!

Dear Lord, please forgive us for what we have brought into your Church.



(1) They Sold Their Souls For Rock N Roll
http://www.goodfight.org/
(2) What's Wrong With Christian Rock?
http://www.freedomministries.org.uk/godwin/index.shtml
(3) Experiencing Worship - A Resource Guide For the Worshiper and Worship Leader
http://www.experiencingworship.com/
(4) The Deacons Beg For Answers, and The Elders Reply
http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/mes ... 1035417954

Read Secret Conversion Parts 1-6
http://www.concernedmembers.com/editori ... ersion.htm

I know, I know, "we don't use instruments in our church." Yet the defenders always seem to defend instruments which was the ultimate goal of the "worship leader" heresy.

One of the lapses of those who claim superiority to all of Biblical history is that thy assume a HARP but there is no HARPIST listed as a gifted person.

Paul's direct command was to SPEAK or PREACH one to another, the resource was "that which is written," the Spirit or the Word of Christ. Early believers thought that both the singing and melody was in the HEART or the Spirit which is were Jesus said that worship takes place as one is devoted to truth.

People do an end-run around Paul's clear teaching that the ACT proved that church was a synagogue or school of the Bible. Why would the Spirit cause Paul to use the Greek word PSALLO if he intended worship IN THE SPIRIT. The word MELODY is not remotely a MUSICAL word. Even in its most ancient form:

Psallo (psao) meant:

I. to touch sharply, to PLUCK, pull, TWITCH, Aesch.; toxou neuran ps.

---to TWANG the BOW-string, Eur.; belos ek keraos ps.

---to send a shaft twanging from the bow, Anth.;

---so, a carpenter's red line, which is twitched and then SUDDENLY let go, so as to leave a MARK, id=Anth.

II. to play a stringed instrument with the FINGERS, NOT with the plectron, Hdt., Ar., Plat.

2. later, to sing to a harp, SING NTest.

In the New Testament the word had lost its warrior and therefore "musical" content and defined teaching with the singing (only) in the heart.

If your guitarist plays with a pick then he is not MAKING MELODY. Plucking with the FINGERS intends to carry the message that one YANKED, TWITCHED OR TWANGED a bow string or HAIR in order to PSALLO or make melody in the enemy's heart but leave him dead. Early harps were boards with ligaments (lifeless instruments) stretched across them. Whey you PLUCKED the string you grasped them with your FINGERS and suddenly llet them go. It ground the board into bits and left MARKS on it.

If you have ever TWANGED a bowstring without an arm guard you know that it leaves a MARK on your arm. It literally grinds it into pieces. So, the same meaning of PSAO to TOUCH, Crumble away, vanish, disappear. The SOP Jesus ground up for Judas carried the same meaning.

Why would Paul be ignorant of the meaning of EXTERNAL melody as a LITERAL WARRIOR'S attack on the literal heart to define a TEACHING and ADMONISHING assembly? There simply is no spiritual content in the word melody or psallo.

That is why the melody (not remotely harmony) is defined as IN THE HEART and directed to God. Paul interchangeably uses the word GRACE instead of melody. Grace then gently abrades the human heart or ADMONISHING would not take place.

EACH PERSON must make melody in the heart but you would require HARPISTS if Paul intended a "WARRIOR'S WEAPON OF DEATH" in its original meaning. For instance, Paul compared speaking in tongues to the harpist or trumpet player of warfare but he DID NOT speak of a HARPIST in the church assembly. For, instance the "ist" meaning is not attached to the church:

ki-tharoid-esis, eôs, hê, singing to the cithara

Paul would have had to say "Singing to the Cithara. Or,

Psalmoidia , singing to the harp. That is singing or ODEing to a harp played by a HARPIST. Paul used the word PSALMOS to define a spiritual activity WITHOUT professional melody makers. If the singing was TO a harp then Paul would ave used the word PSALMOIDIA.

lur-istes , ou, ho, player on the lyre

Paul does not define the HARPIST as a ritualistic functionary, therefore, Paul was not speaking of the twanging noise of the warrior's making a noise LIKE THUNDER. If a literal musical instrument is intended then every member must have a literal instrument and figure out how to play the instrument in THEIR HEART. No, this is not silly because literal melody would be to TWANG a literal bowstring to send a singing arrow INTO the literal heart. That is why many of the older members, not up to waging spiritual warfare against Jesus just run for cover before you can do them any more damage.

The Bible 100% of the time associates MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS with Warefare or worse. Those who make new musical SECTS know that they are waging spiritual warfare against Christ and His Word. They intentionally SOW DISCORD and boast about how they are going to TEACH AWAY the hundreds of broken HEARTS.

In Amos the musical ritualists went into captivity and death because of LACK OF KNOWLEDGE. Probably most churches are under the WARRIORS making literal melody in the heart to keep you ignorant. But, the truly good blind people go into the pit with the blind leaders simply because they DID NOT LOVE THE TRUTH.

Ken
Quote
Share

Mark Waggoner
Mark Waggoner

June 27th, 2003, 12:53 am #43

Mark:

I was referring to the point that you made, when I said that it didn't "count." There again goes my little bite of sarcasm that I need to get rid of- and probably doesn't come across on a computer screen.
:-)

As to my eternal salvation... I am sure, 100% that I am saved and going to heaven. What you've just given me is the red fish argument... "You can't be sure you're right, so why don't you just join up with us?" Well I AM SURE THAT I AM SAVED!!! I am not sure I'm right on the musical instrument issue, because there is NO CLEAR CUT STATEMENT CONDONING OR CONDEMNING THEM IN THE NEW TESTAMENT. It does not say in ANY of Paul's letters or Jesus' instructions, "Do not use musical instruments when you join together, But rather praise the Lord with your mouth only." If it said anything remotely close to that, I'd agree with you, and leave my church. My church has shown me Christian love. They preach the gospel of salvation. I am a part of a family who loves me. Mark- I'm going to heaven. I'm so sure of this that yes, I would risk hearing musical instruments in worship. Because God hears praise, and he loves it.

Now, since this is the last day that I'm posting (you can find my reasons in a post under the topic I started), I would like to say goodbye and good luck to all of you. I will still check in occasionally to read, but mostly to check on what prayer needs exist. I need to get ready for work, so y'all have a good day...

Love in Christ... MOSELLE
Moselle

I hate to end this discussion with you but I hope that you will give the matter of scriptural authority much prayer and study. The Bible does not have to explicitly state a "thou shalt not" for something to be sinful. When it does tell us to do this or that, we are not at liberty to add to or take from it. This isn't a new problem and is the root cause for much division. Speaking where the Bible speaks is nothing more than "speaking as it were the oracles of God" (1 Peter 4:11). Silence doesn't grant permission, either in religious or secular matters. If a teenager was sent to the store with a list of 10 items and they returned home with 12, was buying the extra items authorized? Do property tax exemptions for people over 65 apply to me when the law doesn't explicitly state that it doesn't apply to those who are 42 years old? When I signed a surgical consent form to repair a torn abdominal muscle, did I also authorized the doctor to scope my knee? I didn't say not to. If any document is considered as being authoritative, silence (what the document does not say) must be respected or else why would the document even be considered authoritative in the first place?

The Bible contains "all truth" (John 16:13); "everything pertaining to life and Godliness" (II Peter 1:3); and was "once for all delivered to the saints" (Jude 3). If the Bible is complete, how can we reason that we have permission to do something that it does not authorize? Look closely at Hebrews 7:14 and you will see that "...Moses spoke nothing (was silent) concerning priests" in reference to Jesus not being a Levite. Did God have to explicitly state that priests couldn't come from the other 11 tribes when he ordained this duty upon the Levites? Hebrews 11:4 and I John 3:12 recount the "evil" of Cain's sacrifice. Yes, it was evil to kill his brother but he killed him because his "deeds were evil". He offered a sacrifice that God hadn't commanded and that was sin! Numbers 20:1-12 records Moses' sin of striking the rock for water instead of doing what God told him to do the 2nd time, which was to speak to it. "It worked once, it should work again", after all, God didn't say NOT to hit the rock. That mistake cost him entrance into the promised land.

We need to realize that God doesn’t need any advice and that the Bible doesn’t need to be improved. Most importantly, we need to let God be God and tell us what He wants and how He wants to be worshipped, rather than wanting to do what makes us feel good and important.

In Him,

Mark
Quote
Share

Donnie Cruz
Donnie Cruz

September 2nd, 2003, 9:49 am #44

SECRET CONVERSION PART 7

GIVE US A WORSHIP LEADER

One of the signs of the "church growth movement" is the presence of a "worship leader". What is a worship leader?

First, to understand what is happening, you must know about the World Council of Churches. One of its goals is to bring all Churches, Muslin, Christian, Buddhist, Wicca, occultist and pagan religions of all sorts together under one umbrella. They don't hide this.

It was determined around 1962 that the best way to accomplish this goal was through a charismatic and contemporary music format. The best way to implement these changes was through a slow and gradual infiltration, which has become known (among other things) as the "church growth movement."

What we see today, with the rise of the "worship leader," is one of the tools that brings about change in the church. Since "music" is the key to make all this happen, then the "worship leader" will also be the "music" leader.

These people think the word of God needs a little help to reach all the "‘unchurched’ and ‘disenchanted." The "worship leader” has also become a big part of their "outreach ministry."

One of the Deacons at my former church asked the Elders about "worship leaders." Now, these men claim not to be working in "lock step" with the "Church Growth movement," but they sure know about "worship leaders," This what they said:

"IS RESPONSIBLE FOR PLANNING ALL AREAS OF THE WORSHIP SERVICE
AND THEN PRESENTING THESE PLANS TO THE WORSHIP COMMITTEE. THIS INCLUDES
THE LORD’S SUPPER, GIVING, PRAYERS, AND THE READING OF THE LORD,S WORD AS
WELL AS THE SONG SERVICE"(4)
***********
This is a want ad for a "worship leader:"(3)

Job Description: St Matthew’s Lutheran Church is passionate about reaching out to the richly diverse and secular neighbors whom we share the freeway with. We are looking for a Minister of Worship & Celebration (Lay or Ordained) who is wired to empower heart-felt worship using today’s music, multi-media and the arts. We are a grace driven ministry that relies upon team building to reach those who normally would not check out church. We tend to be a bit irreverent. We bring our coffee into worship and do not tend to attract the squeaky clean. We are looking for a leader who knows it’s not about them
**********
There are magazines and web sites(3) dedicated to the “worship leader." This has become a big business. Here is an excerpt form a recent article in a "worship leader" magazine telling a little about what they believe:

The Spoken Voice
1. Speaking - Psalm 34:1 says, "I will extol the Lord at all times; his praise will always be on my lips."
2. Shouting - Psalm 27:6 says, "Then my head will be exalted above the enemies who surround me; at his tabernacle will I sacrifice with shouts of joy; I will sing and make music to the Lord."
3. Singing - Psalm 47:6 says, "Sing praises to God, sing praises to our King, sing praises."

Our Posture
1. Bowing - Psalm 95:6 says, "Come let us bow down in worship, let us kneel before the Lord our Maker."
2. Standing - Psalm 119:120 says, "My flesh trembles in fear of you; I stand in awe of your laws."
3. Dancing - Psalm 149:3 says, "Let them praise his name with dancing and make music to him with tambourine and harp."

Our Hands
1. Playing Instruments - Psalm 33:2, 3 says, "Praise the Lord with the harp; make music to him on the ten stringed lyre. Sing to him a new song; play skillfully, and shout for joy."
2. Clapping - Psalm 47:1 says, "Clap your hands, all you nations; shout to God with cries of joy."
3. Lifting Hands - Psalm 63:4 says, "I will praise you as long as I live, and in your name I will lift up my hands."
**********
They always give David as their license, but, God tells us in Amos 6:5--Woe to those that act like David:

AMOS 6:5
"That chant to the sound of the viol, and invent to themselves instruments of music, like David;"

You may ask, is a "worship leader" Biblical? In a way, they are. You see God created the first "worship leader".

Ezekiel 28:13-16
13 You were in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone was your covering: The sardius, topaz, and diamond, Beryl, onyx, and jasper, Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold. The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes Was prepared for you on the day you were created.
14 You were the anointed cherub who covers; I established you; You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.
15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, Till iniquity was found in you.
16 By the abundance of your trading You became filled with violence within, And you sinned; Therefore I cast you as a profane thing Out of the mountain of God; And I destroyed you, O covering cherub, From the midst of the fiery stones

Note: "tambrels" are tamborines and "pipes" are wind instruments.

It's no wonder that Satan is called the "enchanter." He has been using music from the very beginning to seduce his prey. It started early with the Bablyonian and Egyptian civilizations in which they would dance, clap, sing and play to their gods. The only thing most contemporary Churches are not doing presently is bringing the gods clean cloths everyday.

From the continent of Africa, where Voodoo chants called up the evil spirits to the shores of America , Satan has always been the user of music and the "worship leader" extraordinaire.

Isaiah14:11-12
11 Your pomp is brought down to Sheol, And the sound of your stringed instruments; The maggot is spread under you, And worms cover you.
12 How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, You who weakened the nations!

Let's take a look at how Satan uses others to seduce us with his music:

************
From Musician Carlos Santana:

Santana admits that his success is tied to a spiritual entity. Santana also claims that he has contact with the spirits of musicians who have died, such as Jimi Hendrix and Miles Davis. Santana has claimed that other artists who participated on his album, Supernatural, were brought to him supernaturally to be a part of Metatron's project. He claimed that they heard his music, or were communicated to in dreams, and were told they were to be part of the project.(1)

"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world." (1 John 4:1)
************

Eminem is the most successful artist of the 21st century. His Marshall Mathers LP sold an incredible 1.76 million copies in its first week, which is the highest first-week sale for a solo artist in history:

" I take seven [kids] from [columbine] and stand 'em all in line. Add an AK-47, a revolver, a nine, a Mac-11 and this ought to solve this problem of mine. And that's a whole school of bullies shot up all of the time, 'cause I'm Shady…"

" I take each individual degenerate's head and reach into it, just to see if he's influenced by me, if he listens to music, and if he feeds into this sh**, he's an innocent victim, and becomes a puppet on the string…"
************
Rolling Stone admitted:

"A song or an album can change your life; a great concert will change it on the spot."
***********

Tori Amos, who said that Lucifer sits at her piano and helps her with her music, said:

" Music is the most powerful medium in the world because of the frequencies. You're hitting places in people that remind them that they are more than just this functional being."
***********

Science writer and composer, Robert Jourdain, wrote in his book, Music, The Brain And Ecstacy:

" Music seems to be the most immediate of all the arts. …Music possesses us. …It really is as if some 'other' has entered not just our bodies, but our intentions, taking us over."
**********

Medical Dr. and brain specialist, Richard Pellegrino, who is a consultant to the entertainment industry, wrote an article for Billboard Magazine , about the power of music. Dr. Pellegrino speaks of the incomparable power of music upon the human brain, stating that music has the uncanny power to:

"… trigger a flood of human emotions and images that have the ability to instantaneously produce very powerful changes in emotional states."

Pellegrino went on to declare:

" Take it from a brain guy. In 25 years of working with the brain, I still cannot affect a person's state of mind the way that one simple song can."
********

Eminem states in his song, Marshall Mathers:

"I think I was put here to…destroy your little 4-year-old boy or girl."
********

Frank Zappa, who was quite anti-Christ, said that when he saw a fish on the back of someone's car he identified them as the enemy. He also admitted to the incredible power and influence rock music has over the human race. In an article he wrote for Life Magazine, he stated:

"The ways in which sound affects the human organism are myriad and subtle. The loud sounds and bright lights of today are tremendous indoctrination tools.
********
AC/DC was up-front with their fans when they made it clear that they not only found their fame in a rock band by Satan's power, but that they desired to drag their listeners into eternal damnation with them, "if God's on the left, I'm on the right…I'm gonna take ya to hell…I'm gonna get'cha-Satan got 'cha, Hell's Bells…If you're into evil, you're a friend of mine."
********
Michael Jackson:

"When I hit the stage it’s all of a sudden a magic from somewhere that comes and the spirit just hits you, and you lose control of yourself."

"I wake up from dreams and go, ‘Wow! Put this down on paper!’ The whole thing is strange. You hear the words, everything is right there in front of your face. And you say to yourself, ‘I’m sorry, I just didn’t write this. It’s there already’. I feel that somewhere, someplace, it’s all been done, and I’m the courier bringing it into the world."
*******

From these two sites (1)(2) alone I count well over 85 well known and famous music performers in all areas of music, Christian, blues, and Rock N Roll, that profess to be Satanically driven, or use pagan symbolism in their performances.

This list includes people like Robert Johnson-The Father of Blues, Elvis Presley, The Beatles, and even Amy Grant!

Dear Lord, please forgive us for what we have brought into your Church.



(1) They Sold Their Souls For Rock N Roll
http://www.goodfight.org/
(2) What's Wrong With Christian Rock?
http://www.freedomministries.org.uk/godwin/index.shtml
(3) Experiencing Worship - A Resource Guide For the Worshiper and Worship Leader
http://www.experiencingworship.com/
(4) The Deacons Beg For Answers, and The Elders Reply
http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/mes ... 1035417954

Read Secret Conversion Parts 1-6
http://www.concernedmembers.com/editori ... ersion.htm

“[1] I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk WORTHY OF THE VOCATION WHEREWITH YE ARE CALLED, [2] With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; [3] Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. [4] There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of YOUR CALLING; [5] One Lord, one faith, one baptism, [6] One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. [7] But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ. … [11] And he gave some, APOSTLES; and some, PROPHETS; and some, EVANGELISTS; and some, PASTORS (a.k.a. elders or shepherds) and TEACHERS; [12] For the PERFECTING OF THE SAINTS, FOR THE WORK OF THE MINISTRY, FOR THE EDIFYING OF THE BODY OF CHRIST…” (Ephesians 4, KJV)

Even though the office of “WORSHIP LEADER” is absent in the passage above and because certain congregations have this culture-designated leadership position and would not dare eliminate it, we need to know why he has so much control over an assembly of the saints.

I came across an article on “song categories.” No doubt the emphasis in the article is about MUSIC—as though music, not Word-centeredness, were the central focus in the gathering. It said, “A worship leader's song list is like a carpenter's toolbox - each tool being most effective when used according to its purpose. The equipped worship leader needs songs that not only fit his/her setting, but that minister in different ways at different times.” [The worship leader and HER setting? dc]

I found it interesting that the list included several categories including: adoration, authority, blessing and benediction, call to worship/gathering, comfort, commitment, compassion, confession, declaration … thanksgiving, triumph, unity, etc. In many churches—denominational or not—“celebration” service is very well emphasized. “Celebration” is one of the song categories listed in the article.

Here’s its definition or description of “celebration.” “Celebration: Express the sheer joy, laughter and exhilaration we experience by knowing God. THIS MUSIC MAKES US WANT TO DANCE!” Now we know why Madison’s Worship Leader loves doing his antics on stage, loves singing songs such as “If You’re Happy and You Know It [… clap your hands], loves initiating and encourages rhythmical handclapping during singing, loves initiating the applause after singing a really FUN song. Other songs: “Celebrate Jesus.” There is actually a music piece titled “CLAP YOUR HANDS” that the Praise Team performs in the assembly.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Donnie Cruz
Quote
Share

Donnie Cruz
Donnie Cruz

September 26th, 2003, 5:02 am #45

SECRET CONVERSION PART 7

GIVE US A WORSHIP LEADER

One of the signs of the "church growth movement" is the presence of a "worship leader". What is a worship leader?

First, to understand what is happening, you must know about the World Council of Churches. One of its goals is to bring all Churches, Muslin, Christian, Buddhist, Wicca, occultist and pagan religions of all sorts together under one umbrella. They don't hide this.

It was determined around 1962 that the best way to accomplish this goal was through a charismatic and contemporary music format. The best way to implement these changes was through a slow and gradual infiltration, which has become known (among other things) as the "church growth movement."

What we see today, with the rise of the "worship leader," is one of the tools that brings about change in the church. Since "music" is the key to make all this happen, then the "worship leader" will also be the "music" leader.

These people think the word of God needs a little help to reach all the "‘unchurched’ and ‘disenchanted." The "worship leader” has also become a big part of their "outreach ministry."

One of the Deacons at my former church asked the Elders about "worship leaders." Now, these men claim not to be working in "lock step" with the "Church Growth movement," but they sure know about "worship leaders," This what they said:

"IS RESPONSIBLE FOR PLANNING ALL AREAS OF THE WORSHIP SERVICE
AND THEN PRESENTING THESE PLANS TO THE WORSHIP COMMITTEE. THIS INCLUDES
THE LORD’S SUPPER, GIVING, PRAYERS, AND THE READING OF THE LORD,S WORD AS
WELL AS THE SONG SERVICE"(4)
***********
This is a want ad for a "worship leader:"(3)

Job Description: St Matthew’s Lutheran Church is passionate about reaching out to the richly diverse and secular neighbors whom we share the freeway with. We are looking for a Minister of Worship & Celebration (Lay or Ordained) who is wired to empower heart-felt worship using today’s music, multi-media and the arts. We are a grace driven ministry that relies upon team building to reach those who normally would not check out church. We tend to be a bit irreverent. We bring our coffee into worship and do not tend to attract the squeaky clean. We are looking for a leader who knows it’s not about them
**********
There are magazines and web sites(3) dedicated to the “worship leader." This has become a big business. Here is an excerpt form a recent article in a "worship leader" magazine telling a little about what they believe:

The Spoken Voice
1. Speaking - Psalm 34:1 says, "I will extol the Lord at all times; his praise will always be on my lips."
2. Shouting - Psalm 27:6 says, "Then my head will be exalted above the enemies who surround me; at his tabernacle will I sacrifice with shouts of joy; I will sing and make music to the Lord."
3. Singing - Psalm 47:6 says, "Sing praises to God, sing praises to our King, sing praises."

Our Posture
1. Bowing - Psalm 95:6 says, "Come let us bow down in worship, let us kneel before the Lord our Maker."
2. Standing - Psalm 119:120 says, "My flesh trembles in fear of you; I stand in awe of your laws."
3. Dancing - Psalm 149:3 says, "Let them praise his name with dancing and make music to him with tambourine and harp."

Our Hands
1. Playing Instruments - Psalm 33:2, 3 says, "Praise the Lord with the harp; make music to him on the ten stringed lyre. Sing to him a new song; play skillfully, and shout for joy."
2. Clapping - Psalm 47:1 says, "Clap your hands, all you nations; shout to God with cries of joy."
3. Lifting Hands - Psalm 63:4 says, "I will praise you as long as I live, and in your name I will lift up my hands."
**********
They always give David as their license, but, God tells us in Amos 6:5--Woe to those that act like David:

AMOS 6:5
"That chant to the sound of the viol, and invent to themselves instruments of music, like David;"

You may ask, is a "worship leader" Biblical? In a way, they are. You see God created the first "worship leader".

Ezekiel 28:13-16
13 You were in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone was your covering: The sardius, topaz, and diamond, Beryl, onyx, and jasper, Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold. The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes Was prepared for you on the day you were created.
14 You were the anointed cherub who covers; I established you; You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.
15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, Till iniquity was found in you.
16 By the abundance of your trading You became filled with violence within, And you sinned; Therefore I cast you as a profane thing Out of the mountain of God; And I destroyed you, O covering cherub, From the midst of the fiery stones

Note: "tambrels" are tamborines and "pipes" are wind instruments.

It's no wonder that Satan is called the "enchanter." He has been using music from the very beginning to seduce his prey. It started early with the Bablyonian and Egyptian civilizations in which they would dance, clap, sing and play to their gods. The only thing most contemporary Churches are not doing presently is bringing the gods clean cloths everyday.

From the continent of Africa, where Voodoo chants called up the evil spirits to the shores of America , Satan has always been the user of music and the "worship leader" extraordinaire.

Isaiah14:11-12
11 Your pomp is brought down to Sheol, And the sound of your stringed instruments; The maggot is spread under you, And worms cover you.
12 How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, You who weakened the nations!

Let's take a look at how Satan uses others to seduce us with his music:

************
From Musician Carlos Santana:

Santana admits that his success is tied to a spiritual entity. Santana also claims that he has contact with the spirits of musicians who have died, such as Jimi Hendrix and Miles Davis. Santana has claimed that other artists who participated on his album, Supernatural, were brought to him supernaturally to be a part of Metatron's project. He claimed that they heard his music, or were communicated to in dreams, and were told they were to be part of the project.(1)

"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world." (1 John 4:1)
************

Eminem is the most successful artist of the 21st century. His Marshall Mathers LP sold an incredible 1.76 million copies in its first week, which is the highest first-week sale for a solo artist in history:

" I take seven [kids] from [columbine] and stand 'em all in line. Add an AK-47, a revolver, a nine, a Mac-11 and this ought to solve this problem of mine. And that's a whole school of bullies shot up all of the time, 'cause I'm Shady…"

" I take each individual degenerate's head and reach into it, just to see if he's influenced by me, if he listens to music, and if he feeds into this sh**, he's an innocent victim, and becomes a puppet on the string…"
************
Rolling Stone admitted:

"A song or an album can change your life; a great concert will change it on the spot."
***********

Tori Amos, who said that Lucifer sits at her piano and helps her with her music, said:

" Music is the most powerful medium in the world because of the frequencies. You're hitting places in people that remind them that they are more than just this functional being."
***********

Science writer and composer, Robert Jourdain, wrote in his book, Music, The Brain And Ecstacy:

" Music seems to be the most immediate of all the arts. …Music possesses us. …It really is as if some 'other' has entered not just our bodies, but our intentions, taking us over."
**********

Medical Dr. and brain specialist, Richard Pellegrino, who is a consultant to the entertainment industry, wrote an article for Billboard Magazine , about the power of music. Dr. Pellegrino speaks of the incomparable power of music upon the human brain, stating that music has the uncanny power to:

"… trigger a flood of human emotions and images that have the ability to instantaneously produce very powerful changes in emotional states."

Pellegrino went on to declare:

" Take it from a brain guy. In 25 years of working with the brain, I still cannot affect a person's state of mind the way that one simple song can."
********

Eminem states in his song, Marshall Mathers:

"I think I was put here to…destroy your little 4-year-old boy or girl."
********

Frank Zappa, who was quite anti-Christ, said that when he saw a fish on the back of someone's car he identified them as the enemy. He also admitted to the incredible power and influence rock music has over the human race. In an article he wrote for Life Magazine, he stated:

"The ways in which sound affects the human organism are myriad and subtle. The loud sounds and bright lights of today are tremendous indoctrination tools.
********
AC/DC was up-front with their fans when they made it clear that they not only found their fame in a rock band by Satan's power, but that they desired to drag their listeners into eternal damnation with them, "if God's on the left, I'm on the right…I'm gonna take ya to hell…I'm gonna get'cha-Satan got 'cha, Hell's Bells…If you're into evil, you're a friend of mine."
********
Michael Jackson:

"When I hit the stage it’s all of a sudden a magic from somewhere that comes and the spirit just hits you, and you lose control of yourself."

"I wake up from dreams and go, ‘Wow! Put this down on paper!’ The whole thing is strange. You hear the words, everything is right there in front of your face. And you say to yourself, ‘I’m sorry, I just didn’t write this. It’s there already’. I feel that somewhere, someplace, it’s all been done, and I’m the courier bringing it into the world."
*******

From these two sites (1)(2) alone I count well over 85 well known and famous music performers in all areas of music, Christian, blues, and Rock N Roll, that profess to be Satanically driven, or use pagan symbolism in their performances.

This list includes people like Robert Johnson-The Father of Blues, Elvis Presley, The Beatles, and even Amy Grant!

Dear Lord, please forgive us for what we have brought into your Church.



(1) They Sold Their Souls For Rock N Roll
http://www.goodfight.org/
(2) What's Wrong With Christian Rock?
http://www.freedomministries.org.uk/godwin/index.shtml
(3) Experiencing Worship - A Resource Guide For the Worshiper and Worship Leader
http://www.experiencingworship.com/
(4) The Deacons Beg For Answers, and The Elders Reply
http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/mes ... 1035417954

Read Secret Conversion Parts 1-6
http://www.concernedmembers.com/editori ... ersion.htm

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
MESSAGE FROM: “WORSHIP: ANTIQUITY, AESTHETICS AND EMOTION”
By John H. Waddey, editor of Christianity: Then and Now
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
[[[[[[~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

. . .

Aesthetics is the study and appreciation of things beautiful. It involves such things as art, sculpture and fine music. Art is beautiful. Fine music is inspiring, entertaining and relaxing. The thunderous peels of the pipe organ thrill the aesthetic nature of many souls. However scripture does not make esthetic beauty the standard for acceptable worship. God has specifically forbidden the making and use of statuary (graven images) for worship (Deut.5: 8-9). Even the great art of the Italian masters cannot be used as aids or objects of acceptable worship. Early Christians worshiped without fine opulent houses of worship, without fine art and sculpture and without the finery of instrumental accompaniment to their singing.

Emotion in worship has its place in worship. We must love God with all our heart, soul, mind and strength (Mark 12:30). Emotion however, musts always be in subjection to the will of God. "Not every one that saith Lord, Lord shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he that doeth the will of my Father who is in heaven" (Mathew 7:21).

We must obey from the heart that form of teaching (Romans 6:17). Emotion, bereft of truth, is not just harmless; it can be an unacceptable substitute for true worship. It can lead to worship that is chaotic and confusing (I Corinthians 14:33, 40).

Acceptable worship must be "in spirit and in truth" (John 4:24). That worship can be offered to God in a manner totally acceptable without a beautiful building, the use of the fine art, statuary, musical instruments and musically trained and directed choirs. It was so with those first Christians. It can be so even today.
. . .
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~]]]]]]
Quote
Share

Donnie Cruz
Donnie Cruz

October 11th, 2003, 8:04 am #46

SECRET CONVERSION PART 7

GIVE US A WORSHIP LEADER

One of the signs of the "church growth movement" is the presence of a "worship leader". What is a worship leader?

First, to understand what is happening, you must know about the World Council of Churches. One of its goals is to bring all Churches, Muslin, Christian, Buddhist, Wicca, occultist and pagan religions of all sorts together under one umbrella. They don't hide this.

It was determined around 1962 that the best way to accomplish this goal was through a charismatic and contemporary music format. The best way to implement these changes was through a slow and gradual infiltration, which has become known (among other things) as the "church growth movement."

What we see today, with the rise of the "worship leader," is one of the tools that brings about change in the church. Since "music" is the key to make all this happen, then the "worship leader" will also be the "music" leader.

These people think the word of God needs a little help to reach all the "‘unchurched’ and ‘disenchanted." The "worship leader” has also become a big part of their "outreach ministry."

One of the Deacons at my former church asked the Elders about "worship leaders." Now, these men claim not to be working in "lock step" with the "Church Growth movement," but they sure know about "worship leaders," This what they said:

"IS RESPONSIBLE FOR PLANNING ALL AREAS OF THE WORSHIP SERVICE
AND THEN PRESENTING THESE PLANS TO THE WORSHIP COMMITTEE. THIS INCLUDES
THE LORD’S SUPPER, GIVING, PRAYERS, AND THE READING OF THE LORD,S WORD AS
WELL AS THE SONG SERVICE"(4)
***********
This is a want ad for a "worship leader:"(3)

Job Description: St Matthew’s Lutheran Church is passionate about reaching out to the richly diverse and secular neighbors whom we share the freeway with. We are looking for a Minister of Worship & Celebration (Lay or Ordained) who is wired to empower heart-felt worship using today’s music, multi-media and the arts. We are a grace driven ministry that relies upon team building to reach those who normally would not check out church. We tend to be a bit irreverent. We bring our coffee into worship and do not tend to attract the squeaky clean. We are looking for a leader who knows it’s not about them
**********
There are magazines and web sites(3) dedicated to the “worship leader." This has become a big business. Here is an excerpt form a recent article in a "worship leader" magazine telling a little about what they believe:

The Spoken Voice
1. Speaking - Psalm 34:1 says, "I will extol the Lord at all times; his praise will always be on my lips."
2. Shouting - Psalm 27:6 says, "Then my head will be exalted above the enemies who surround me; at his tabernacle will I sacrifice with shouts of joy; I will sing and make music to the Lord."
3. Singing - Psalm 47:6 says, "Sing praises to God, sing praises to our King, sing praises."

Our Posture
1. Bowing - Psalm 95:6 says, "Come let us bow down in worship, let us kneel before the Lord our Maker."
2. Standing - Psalm 119:120 says, "My flesh trembles in fear of you; I stand in awe of your laws."
3. Dancing - Psalm 149:3 says, "Let them praise his name with dancing and make music to him with tambourine and harp."

Our Hands
1. Playing Instruments - Psalm 33:2, 3 says, "Praise the Lord with the harp; make music to him on the ten stringed lyre. Sing to him a new song; play skillfully, and shout for joy."
2. Clapping - Psalm 47:1 says, "Clap your hands, all you nations; shout to God with cries of joy."
3. Lifting Hands - Psalm 63:4 says, "I will praise you as long as I live, and in your name I will lift up my hands."
**********
They always give David as their license, but, God tells us in Amos 6:5--Woe to those that act like David:

AMOS 6:5
"That chant to the sound of the viol, and invent to themselves instruments of music, like David;"

You may ask, is a "worship leader" Biblical? In a way, they are. You see God created the first "worship leader".

Ezekiel 28:13-16
13 You were in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone was your covering: The sardius, topaz, and diamond, Beryl, onyx, and jasper, Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold. The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes Was prepared for you on the day you were created.
14 You were the anointed cherub who covers; I established you; You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.
15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, Till iniquity was found in you.
16 By the abundance of your trading You became filled with violence within, And you sinned; Therefore I cast you as a profane thing Out of the mountain of God; And I destroyed you, O covering cherub, From the midst of the fiery stones

Note: "tambrels" are tamborines and "pipes" are wind instruments.

It's no wonder that Satan is called the "enchanter." He has been using music from the very beginning to seduce his prey. It started early with the Bablyonian and Egyptian civilizations in which they would dance, clap, sing and play to their gods. The only thing most contemporary Churches are not doing presently is bringing the gods clean cloths everyday.

From the continent of Africa, where Voodoo chants called up the evil spirits to the shores of America , Satan has always been the user of music and the "worship leader" extraordinaire.

Isaiah14:11-12
11 Your pomp is brought down to Sheol, And the sound of your stringed instruments; The maggot is spread under you, And worms cover you.
12 How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, You who weakened the nations!

Let's take a look at how Satan uses others to seduce us with his music:

************
From Musician Carlos Santana:

Santana admits that his success is tied to a spiritual entity. Santana also claims that he has contact with the spirits of musicians who have died, such as Jimi Hendrix and Miles Davis. Santana has claimed that other artists who participated on his album, Supernatural, were brought to him supernaturally to be a part of Metatron's project. He claimed that they heard his music, or were communicated to in dreams, and were told they were to be part of the project.(1)

"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world." (1 John 4:1)
************

Eminem is the most successful artist of the 21st century. His Marshall Mathers LP sold an incredible 1.76 million copies in its first week, which is the highest first-week sale for a solo artist in history:

" I take seven [kids] from [columbine] and stand 'em all in line. Add an AK-47, a revolver, a nine, a Mac-11 and this ought to solve this problem of mine. And that's a whole school of bullies shot up all of the time, 'cause I'm Shady…"

" I take each individual degenerate's head and reach into it, just to see if he's influenced by me, if he listens to music, and if he feeds into this sh**, he's an innocent victim, and becomes a puppet on the string…"
************
Rolling Stone admitted:

"A song or an album can change your life; a great concert will change it on the spot."
***********

Tori Amos, who said that Lucifer sits at her piano and helps her with her music, said:

" Music is the most powerful medium in the world because of the frequencies. You're hitting places in people that remind them that they are more than just this functional being."
***********

Science writer and composer, Robert Jourdain, wrote in his book, Music, The Brain And Ecstacy:

" Music seems to be the most immediate of all the arts. …Music possesses us. …It really is as if some 'other' has entered not just our bodies, but our intentions, taking us over."
**********

Medical Dr. and brain specialist, Richard Pellegrino, who is a consultant to the entertainment industry, wrote an article for Billboard Magazine , about the power of music. Dr. Pellegrino speaks of the incomparable power of music upon the human brain, stating that music has the uncanny power to:

"… trigger a flood of human emotions and images that have the ability to instantaneously produce very powerful changes in emotional states."

Pellegrino went on to declare:

" Take it from a brain guy. In 25 years of working with the brain, I still cannot affect a person's state of mind the way that one simple song can."
********

Eminem states in his song, Marshall Mathers:

"I think I was put here to…destroy your little 4-year-old boy or girl."
********

Frank Zappa, who was quite anti-Christ, said that when he saw a fish on the back of someone's car he identified them as the enemy. He also admitted to the incredible power and influence rock music has over the human race. In an article he wrote for Life Magazine, he stated:

"The ways in which sound affects the human organism are myriad and subtle. The loud sounds and bright lights of today are tremendous indoctrination tools.
********
AC/DC was up-front with their fans when they made it clear that they not only found their fame in a rock band by Satan's power, but that they desired to drag their listeners into eternal damnation with them, "if God's on the left, I'm on the right…I'm gonna take ya to hell…I'm gonna get'cha-Satan got 'cha, Hell's Bells…If you're into evil, you're a friend of mine."
********
Michael Jackson:

"When I hit the stage it’s all of a sudden a magic from somewhere that comes and the spirit just hits you, and you lose control of yourself."

"I wake up from dreams and go, ‘Wow! Put this down on paper!’ The whole thing is strange. You hear the words, everything is right there in front of your face. And you say to yourself, ‘I’m sorry, I just didn’t write this. It’s there already’. I feel that somewhere, someplace, it’s all been done, and I’m the courier bringing it into the world."
*******

From these two sites (1)(2) alone I count well over 85 well known and famous music performers in all areas of music, Christian, blues, and Rock N Roll, that profess to be Satanically driven, or use pagan symbolism in their performances.

This list includes people like Robert Johnson-The Father of Blues, Elvis Presley, The Beatles, and even Amy Grant!

Dear Lord, please forgive us for what we have brought into your Church.



(1) They Sold Their Souls For Rock N Roll
http://www.goodfight.org/
(2) What's Wrong With Christian Rock?
http://www.freedomministries.org.uk/godwin/index.shtml
(3) Experiencing Worship - A Resource Guide For the Worshiper and Worship Leader
http://www.experiencingworship.com/
(4) The Deacons Beg For Answers, and The Elders Reply
http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/mes ... 1035417954

Read Secret Conversion Parts 1-6
http://www.concernedmembers.com/editori ... ersion.htm

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
MESSAGE FROM: John Waddey, Editor of “Christianity: Then and Now”
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

[[[[[[[[~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It is not wrong that good singers sit together … It is not wrong that they sit together near the front of the auditorium … There are however, some other important considerations regarding the use of praise teams: If the introduction of praise teams creates conflict and confusion in a congregation, leaders should consider Paul’s words, “For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace...” (I Cor. 14:34). “Let all things be done unto edifying” (vs. 26). To those who insisted on using their gift of speaking in foreign tongues in the assembly, Paul said, “thou verily giveth thanks well, but the other is not edified” (vs. 17). Even if a praise team sings well and with good intentions but their presence causes confusion, the church is certainly not edified. Again Paul said, “Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God” (I Cor. 10:31). To cause confusion among brethren is not to the glory of God.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~]]]]]]]]
Quote
Share

Donnie Cruz
Donnie Cruz

December 15th, 2003, 11:48 am #47

SECRET CONVERSION PART 7

GIVE US A WORSHIP LEADER

One of the signs of the "church growth movement" is the presence of a "worship leader". What is a worship leader?

First, to understand what is happening, you must know about the World Council of Churches. One of its goals is to bring all Churches, Muslin, Christian, Buddhist, Wicca, occultist and pagan religions of all sorts together under one umbrella. They don't hide this.

It was determined around 1962 that the best way to accomplish this goal was through a charismatic and contemporary music format. The best way to implement these changes was through a slow and gradual infiltration, which has become known (among other things) as the "church growth movement."

What we see today, with the rise of the "worship leader," is one of the tools that brings about change in the church. Since "music" is the key to make all this happen, then the "worship leader" will also be the "music" leader.

These people think the word of God needs a little help to reach all the "‘unchurched’ and ‘disenchanted." The "worship leader” has also become a big part of their "outreach ministry."

One of the Deacons at my former church asked the Elders about "worship leaders." Now, these men claim not to be working in "lock step" with the "Church Growth movement," but they sure know about "worship leaders," This what they said:

"IS RESPONSIBLE FOR PLANNING ALL AREAS OF THE WORSHIP SERVICE
AND THEN PRESENTING THESE PLANS TO THE WORSHIP COMMITTEE. THIS INCLUDES
THE LORD’S SUPPER, GIVING, PRAYERS, AND THE READING OF THE LORD,S WORD AS
WELL AS THE SONG SERVICE"(4)
***********
This is a want ad for a "worship leader:"(3)

Job Description: St Matthew’s Lutheran Church is passionate about reaching out to the richly diverse and secular neighbors whom we share the freeway with. We are looking for a Minister of Worship & Celebration (Lay or Ordained) who is wired to empower heart-felt worship using today’s music, multi-media and the arts. We are a grace driven ministry that relies upon team building to reach those who normally would not check out church. We tend to be a bit irreverent. We bring our coffee into worship and do not tend to attract the squeaky clean. We are looking for a leader who knows it’s not about them
**********
There are magazines and web sites(3) dedicated to the “worship leader." This has become a big business. Here is an excerpt form a recent article in a "worship leader" magazine telling a little about what they believe:

The Spoken Voice
1. Speaking - Psalm 34:1 says, "I will extol the Lord at all times; his praise will always be on my lips."
2. Shouting - Psalm 27:6 says, "Then my head will be exalted above the enemies who surround me; at his tabernacle will I sacrifice with shouts of joy; I will sing and make music to the Lord."
3. Singing - Psalm 47:6 says, "Sing praises to God, sing praises to our King, sing praises."

Our Posture
1. Bowing - Psalm 95:6 says, "Come let us bow down in worship, let us kneel before the Lord our Maker."
2. Standing - Psalm 119:120 says, "My flesh trembles in fear of you; I stand in awe of your laws."
3. Dancing - Psalm 149:3 says, "Let them praise his name with dancing and make music to him with tambourine and harp."

Our Hands
1. Playing Instruments - Psalm 33:2, 3 says, "Praise the Lord with the harp; make music to him on the ten stringed lyre. Sing to him a new song; play skillfully, and shout for joy."
2. Clapping - Psalm 47:1 says, "Clap your hands, all you nations; shout to God with cries of joy."
3. Lifting Hands - Psalm 63:4 says, "I will praise you as long as I live, and in your name I will lift up my hands."
**********
They always give David as their license, but, God tells us in Amos 6:5--Woe to those that act like David:

AMOS 6:5
"That chant to the sound of the viol, and invent to themselves instruments of music, like David;"

You may ask, is a "worship leader" Biblical? In a way, they are. You see God created the first "worship leader".

Ezekiel 28:13-16
13 You were in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone was your covering: The sardius, topaz, and diamond, Beryl, onyx, and jasper, Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold. The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes Was prepared for you on the day you were created.
14 You were the anointed cherub who covers; I established you; You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.
15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, Till iniquity was found in you.
16 By the abundance of your trading You became filled with violence within, And you sinned; Therefore I cast you as a profane thing Out of the mountain of God; And I destroyed you, O covering cherub, From the midst of the fiery stones

Note: "tambrels" are tamborines and "pipes" are wind instruments.

It's no wonder that Satan is called the "enchanter." He has been using music from the very beginning to seduce his prey. It started early with the Bablyonian and Egyptian civilizations in which they would dance, clap, sing and play to their gods. The only thing most contemporary Churches are not doing presently is bringing the gods clean cloths everyday.

From the continent of Africa, where Voodoo chants called up the evil spirits to the shores of America , Satan has always been the user of music and the "worship leader" extraordinaire.

Isaiah14:11-12
11 Your pomp is brought down to Sheol, And the sound of your stringed instruments; The maggot is spread under you, And worms cover you.
12 How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, You who weakened the nations!

Let's take a look at how Satan uses others to seduce us with his music:

************
From Musician Carlos Santana:

Santana admits that his success is tied to a spiritual entity. Santana also claims that he has contact with the spirits of musicians who have died, such as Jimi Hendrix and Miles Davis. Santana has claimed that other artists who participated on his album, Supernatural, were brought to him supernaturally to be a part of Metatron's project. He claimed that they heard his music, or were communicated to in dreams, and were told they were to be part of the project.(1)

"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world." (1 John 4:1)
************

Eminem is the most successful artist of the 21st century. His Marshall Mathers LP sold an incredible 1.76 million copies in its first week, which is the highest first-week sale for a solo artist in history:

" I take seven [kids] from [columbine] and stand 'em all in line. Add an AK-47, a revolver, a nine, a Mac-11 and this ought to solve this problem of mine. And that's a whole school of bullies shot up all of the time, 'cause I'm Shady…"

" I take each individual degenerate's head and reach into it, just to see if he's influenced by me, if he listens to music, and if he feeds into this sh**, he's an innocent victim, and becomes a puppet on the string…"
************
Rolling Stone admitted:

"A song or an album can change your life; a great concert will change it on the spot."
***********

Tori Amos, who said that Lucifer sits at her piano and helps her with her music, said:

" Music is the most powerful medium in the world because of the frequencies. You're hitting places in people that remind them that they are more than just this functional being."
***********

Science writer and composer, Robert Jourdain, wrote in his book, Music, The Brain And Ecstacy:

" Music seems to be the most immediate of all the arts. …Music possesses us. …It really is as if some 'other' has entered not just our bodies, but our intentions, taking us over."
**********

Medical Dr. and brain specialist, Richard Pellegrino, who is a consultant to the entertainment industry, wrote an article for Billboard Magazine , about the power of music. Dr. Pellegrino speaks of the incomparable power of music upon the human brain, stating that music has the uncanny power to:

"… trigger a flood of human emotions and images that have the ability to instantaneously produce very powerful changes in emotional states."

Pellegrino went on to declare:

" Take it from a brain guy. In 25 years of working with the brain, I still cannot affect a person's state of mind the way that one simple song can."
********

Eminem states in his song, Marshall Mathers:

"I think I was put here to…destroy your little 4-year-old boy or girl."
********

Frank Zappa, who was quite anti-Christ, said that when he saw a fish on the back of someone's car he identified them as the enemy. He also admitted to the incredible power and influence rock music has over the human race. In an article he wrote for Life Magazine, he stated:

"The ways in which sound affects the human organism are myriad and subtle. The loud sounds and bright lights of today are tremendous indoctrination tools.
********
AC/DC was up-front with their fans when they made it clear that they not only found their fame in a rock band by Satan's power, but that they desired to drag their listeners into eternal damnation with them, "if God's on the left, I'm on the right…I'm gonna take ya to hell…I'm gonna get'cha-Satan got 'cha, Hell's Bells…If you're into evil, you're a friend of mine."
********
Michael Jackson:

"When I hit the stage it’s all of a sudden a magic from somewhere that comes and the spirit just hits you, and you lose control of yourself."

"I wake up from dreams and go, ‘Wow! Put this down on paper!’ The whole thing is strange. You hear the words, everything is right there in front of your face. And you say to yourself, ‘I’m sorry, I just didn’t write this. It’s there already’. I feel that somewhere, someplace, it’s all been done, and I’m the courier bringing it into the world."
*******

From these two sites (1)(2) alone I count well over 85 well known and famous music performers in all areas of music, Christian, blues, and Rock N Roll, that profess to be Satanically driven, or use pagan symbolism in their performances.

This list includes people like Robert Johnson-The Father of Blues, Elvis Presley, The Beatles, and even Amy Grant!

Dear Lord, please forgive us for what we have brought into your Church.



(1) They Sold Their Souls For Rock N Roll
http://www.goodfight.org/
(2) What's Wrong With Christian Rock?
http://www.freedomministries.org.uk/godwin/index.shtml
(3) Experiencing Worship - A Resource Guide For the Worshiper and Worship Leader
http://www.experiencingworship.com/
(4) The Deacons Beg For Answers, and The Elders Reply
http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/mes ... 1035417954

Read Secret Conversion Parts 1-6
http://www.concernedmembers.com/editori ... ersion.htm

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
An announcement from the CONTEMPORARY MUSICAL WORSHIP Guide dated December 14, 2003.
———————————————————————————————————————————
Keith Lancaster will be taking a sabbatical from Madison for
the next several months to spend more time with Acappella. We wish
him well and look forward to his return!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Last edited by ConcernedMembers on December 15th, 2003, 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Quote
Share

Donnie Cruz
Donnie Cruz

December 16th, 2003, 10:43 am #48

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[1] Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant. [8] For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; [9] To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; [10] To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues. (I Corinthians 12, KJV)

[28] And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. [29] Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? [30] Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? (I Corinthians 12, KJV)

[1] Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. [2] And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. [8] Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. [9] For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. [10] But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. (I Corinthians 13, KJV)

[11] And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; [12] For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: [13] Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ. (Ephesians 4, KJV)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Stephen Vail led the singing at the first assembly (8:00 a.m.) on December 14, 2003.
Kevin Dunnebacke, with the Praise Team, led the singing at the contemporary musical worship (10:30 a.m.).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Quote
Share

Kenneth Sublett
Kenneth Sublett

December 16th, 2003, 8:09 pm #49

SECRET CONVERSION PART 7

GIVE US A WORSHIP LEADER

One of the signs of the "church growth movement" is the presence of a "worship leader". What is a worship leader?

First, to understand what is happening, you must know about the World Council of Churches. One of its goals is to bring all Churches, Muslin, Christian, Buddhist, Wicca, occultist and pagan religions of all sorts together under one umbrella. They don't hide this.

It was determined around 1962 that the best way to accomplish this goal was through a charismatic and contemporary music format. The best way to implement these changes was through a slow and gradual infiltration, which has become known (among other things) as the "church growth movement."

What we see today, with the rise of the "worship leader," is one of the tools that brings about change in the church. Since "music" is the key to make all this happen, then the "worship leader" will also be the "music" leader.

These people think the word of God needs a little help to reach all the "‘unchurched’ and ‘disenchanted." The "worship leader” has also become a big part of their "outreach ministry."

One of the Deacons at my former church asked the Elders about "worship leaders." Now, these men claim not to be working in "lock step" with the "Church Growth movement," but they sure know about "worship leaders," This what they said:

"IS RESPONSIBLE FOR PLANNING ALL AREAS OF THE WORSHIP SERVICE
AND THEN PRESENTING THESE PLANS TO THE WORSHIP COMMITTEE. THIS INCLUDES
THE LORD’S SUPPER, GIVING, PRAYERS, AND THE READING OF THE LORD,S WORD AS
WELL AS THE SONG SERVICE"(4)
***********
This is a want ad for a "worship leader:"(3)

Job Description: St Matthew’s Lutheran Church is passionate about reaching out to the richly diverse and secular neighbors whom we share the freeway with. We are looking for a Minister of Worship & Celebration (Lay or Ordained) who is wired to empower heart-felt worship using today’s music, multi-media and the arts. We are a grace driven ministry that relies upon team building to reach those who normally would not check out church. We tend to be a bit irreverent. We bring our coffee into worship and do not tend to attract the squeaky clean. We are looking for a leader who knows it’s not about them
**********
There are magazines and web sites(3) dedicated to the “worship leader." This has become a big business. Here is an excerpt form a recent article in a "worship leader" magazine telling a little about what they believe:

The Spoken Voice
1. Speaking - Psalm 34:1 says, "I will extol the Lord at all times; his praise will always be on my lips."
2. Shouting - Psalm 27:6 says, "Then my head will be exalted above the enemies who surround me; at his tabernacle will I sacrifice with shouts of joy; I will sing and make music to the Lord."
3. Singing - Psalm 47:6 says, "Sing praises to God, sing praises to our King, sing praises."

Our Posture
1. Bowing - Psalm 95:6 says, "Come let us bow down in worship, let us kneel before the Lord our Maker."
2. Standing - Psalm 119:120 says, "My flesh trembles in fear of you; I stand in awe of your laws."
3. Dancing - Psalm 149:3 says, "Let them praise his name with dancing and make music to him with tambourine and harp."

Our Hands
1. Playing Instruments - Psalm 33:2, 3 says, "Praise the Lord with the harp; make music to him on the ten stringed lyre. Sing to him a new song; play skillfully, and shout for joy."
2. Clapping - Psalm 47:1 says, "Clap your hands, all you nations; shout to God with cries of joy."
3. Lifting Hands - Psalm 63:4 says, "I will praise you as long as I live, and in your name I will lift up my hands."
**********
They always give David as their license, but, God tells us in Amos 6:5--Woe to those that act like David:

AMOS 6:5
"That chant to the sound of the viol, and invent to themselves instruments of music, like David;"

You may ask, is a "worship leader" Biblical? In a way, they are. You see God created the first "worship leader".

Ezekiel 28:13-16
13 You were in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone was your covering: The sardius, topaz, and diamond, Beryl, onyx, and jasper, Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold. The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes Was prepared for you on the day you were created.
14 You were the anointed cherub who covers; I established you; You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.
15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, Till iniquity was found in you.
16 By the abundance of your trading You became filled with violence within, And you sinned; Therefore I cast you as a profane thing Out of the mountain of God; And I destroyed you, O covering cherub, From the midst of the fiery stones

Note: "tambrels" are tamborines and "pipes" are wind instruments.

It's no wonder that Satan is called the "enchanter." He has been using music from the very beginning to seduce his prey. It started early with the Bablyonian and Egyptian civilizations in which they would dance, clap, sing and play to their gods. The only thing most contemporary Churches are not doing presently is bringing the gods clean cloths everyday.

From the continent of Africa, where Voodoo chants called up the evil spirits to the shores of America , Satan has always been the user of music and the "worship leader" extraordinaire.

Isaiah14:11-12
11 Your pomp is brought down to Sheol, And the sound of your stringed instruments; The maggot is spread under you, And worms cover you.
12 How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, You who weakened the nations!

Let's take a look at how Satan uses others to seduce us with his music:

************
From Musician Carlos Santana:

Santana admits that his success is tied to a spiritual entity. Santana also claims that he has contact with the spirits of musicians who have died, such as Jimi Hendrix and Miles Davis. Santana has claimed that other artists who participated on his album, Supernatural, were brought to him supernaturally to be a part of Metatron's project. He claimed that they heard his music, or were communicated to in dreams, and were told they were to be part of the project.(1)

"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world." (1 John 4:1)
************

Eminem is the most successful artist of the 21st century. His Marshall Mathers LP sold an incredible 1.76 million copies in its first week, which is the highest first-week sale for a solo artist in history:

" I take seven [kids] from [columbine] and stand 'em all in line. Add an AK-47, a revolver, a nine, a Mac-11 and this ought to solve this problem of mine. And that's a whole school of bullies shot up all of the time, 'cause I'm Shady…"

" I take each individual degenerate's head and reach into it, just to see if he's influenced by me, if he listens to music, and if he feeds into this sh**, he's an innocent victim, and becomes a puppet on the string…"
************
Rolling Stone admitted:

"A song or an album can change your life; a great concert will change it on the spot."
***********

Tori Amos, who said that Lucifer sits at her piano and helps her with her music, said:

" Music is the most powerful medium in the world because of the frequencies. You're hitting places in people that remind them that they are more than just this functional being."
***********

Science writer and composer, Robert Jourdain, wrote in his book, Music, The Brain And Ecstacy:

" Music seems to be the most immediate of all the arts. …Music possesses us. …It really is as if some 'other' has entered not just our bodies, but our intentions, taking us over."
**********

Medical Dr. and brain specialist, Richard Pellegrino, who is a consultant to the entertainment industry, wrote an article for Billboard Magazine , about the power of music. Dr. Pellegrino speaks of the incomparable power of music upon the human brain, stating that music has the uncanny power to:

"… trigger a flood of human emotions and images that have the ability to instantaneously produce very powerful changes in emotional states."

Pellegrino went on to declare:

" Take it from a brain guy. In 25 years of working with the brain, I still cannot affect a person's state of mind the way that one simple song can."
********

Eminem states in his song, Marshall Mathers:

"I think I was put here to…destroy your little 4-year-old boy or girl."
********

Frank Zappa, who was quite anti-Christ, said that when he saw a fish on the back of someone's car he identified them as the enemy. He also admitted to the incredible power and influence rock music has over the human race. In an article he wrote for Life Magazine, he stated:

"The ways in which sound affects the human organism are myriad and subtle. The loud sounds and bright lights of today are tremendous indoctrination tools.
********
AC/DC was up-front with their fans when they made it clear that they not only found their fame in a rock band by Satan's power, but that they desired to drag their listeners into eternal damnation with them, "if God's on the left, I'm on the right…I'm gonna take ya to hell…I'm gonna get'cha-Satan got 'cha, Hell's Bells…If you're into evil, you're a friend of mine."
********
Michael Jackson:

"When I hit the stage it’s all of a sudden a magic from somewhere that comes and the spirit just hits you, and you lose control of yourself."

"I wake up from dreams and go, ‘Wow! Put this down on paper!’ The whole thing is strange. You hear the words, everything is right there in front of your face. And you say to yourself, ‘I’m sorry, I just didn’t write this. It’s there already’. I feel that somewhere, someplace, it’s all been done, and I’m the courier bringing it into the world."
*******

From these two sites (1)(2) alone I count well over 85 well known and famous music performers in all areas of music, Christian, blues, and Rock N Roll, that profess to be Satanically driven, or use pagan symbolism in their performances.

This list includes people like Robert Johnson-The Father of Blues, Elvis Presley, The Beatles, and even Amy Grant!

Dear Lord, please forgive us for what we have brought into your Church.



(1) They Sold Their Souls For Rock N Roll
http://www.goodfight.org/
(2) What's Wrong With Christian Rock?
http://www.freedomministries.org.uk/godwin/index.shtml
(3) Experiencing Worship - A Resource Guide For the Worshiper and Worship Leader
http://www.experiencingworship.com/
(4) The Deacons Beg For Answers, and The Elders Reply
http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/mes ... 1035417954

Read Secret Conversion Parts 1-6
http://www.concernedmembers.com/editori ... ersion.htm

Do you remember that Madison self destructed? The ConcernedMembers began as a way to identify what was happening and give a place for ANYONE to respond either for or against.

We noted that the Saddle Back Plan or the Purpose Driven Cult--Now infiltrated all of the way to Hohenwald--was to INFILTRATE and DIVERT the church to turn it into "a theater for Holy Entertainment." That really means that Baptists, Presbyterians or the Church of God has INFILTRATED and using the old WARMTH AND LOVE scam changed the shepherds into wolves who BREAK DOWN THE WALLS.

The Madison elders and the preacher AFFIRMED the plan and even Judaized so far as to USE "Levitical singers" who mocked the types of Lord Jesus Christ and the TITHE which denounces the Atonement.

Now, I am informed that they have again tried to DIVERT the Concerned Members rather than "give an answer."

They bought up concernedmembers.net. Isn't that as cunningly crafty as a slug?

They HOPE to divert traffic from concernedmembers.com to THEIR counterfeit.

We have posted a page which will further explore how Christians can be so DIVERSIVE and DIVISIVE to try to silence anyone who DARES to protest.

http://www.piney.com/Concernedmembers.net.html

TAKE A LOOK and LOOK OFTEN because we will post information about what is happening on the HONEST FORUM.

Ken Sublett
Quote
Share

Donnie Cruz
Donnie Cruz

September 6th, 2004, 8:22 am #50

SECRET CONVERSION PART 7

GIVE US A WORSHIP LEADER

One of the signs of the "church growth movement" is the presence of a "worship leader". What is a worship leader?

First, to understand what is happening, you must know about the World Council of Churches. One of its goals is to bring all Churches, Muslin, Christian, Buddhist, Wicca, occultist and pagan religions of all sorts together under one umbrella. They don't hide this.

It was determined around 1962 that the best way to accomplish this goal was through a charismatic and contemporary music format. The best way to implement these changes was through a slow and gradual infiltration, which has become known (among other things) as the "church growth movement."

What we see today, with the rise of the "worship leader," is one of the tools that brings about change in the church. Since "music" is the key to make all this happen, then the "worship leader" will also be the "music" leader.

These people think the word of God needs a little help to reach all the "‘unchurched’ and ‘disenchanted." The "worship leader” has also become a big part of their "outreach ministry."

One of the Deacons at my former church asked the Elders about "worship leaders." Now, these men claim not to be working in "lock step" with the "Church Growth movement," but they sure know about "worship leaders," This what they said:

"IS RESPONSIBLE FOR PLANNING ALL AREAS OF THE WORSHIP SERVICE
AND THEN PRESENTING THESE PLANS TO THE WORSHIP COMMITTEE. THIS INCLUDES
THE LORD’S SUPPER, GIVING, PRAYERS, AND THE READING OF THE LORD,S WORD AS
WELL AS THE SONG SERVICE"(4)
***********
This is a want ad for a "worship leader:"(3)

Job Description: St Matthew’s Lutheran Church is passionate about reaching out to the richly diverse and secular neighbors whom we share the freeway with. We are looking for a Minister of Worship & Celebration (Lay or Ordained) who is wired to empower heart-felt worship using today’s music, multi-media and the arts. We are a grace driven ministry that relies upon team building to reach those who normally would not check out church. We tend to be a bit irreverent. We bring our coffee into worship and do not tend to attract the squeaky clean. We are looking for a leader who knows it’s not about them
**********
There are magazines and web sites(3) dedicated to the “worship leader." This has become a big business. Here is an excerpt form a recent article in a "worship leader" magazine telling a little about what they believe:

The Spoken Voice
1. Speaking - Psalm 34:1 says, "I will extol the Lord at all times; his praise will always be on my lips."
2. Shouting - Psalm 27:6 says, "Then my head will be exalted above the enemies who surround me; at his tabernacle will I sacrifice with shouts of joy; I will sing and make music to the Lord."
3. Singing - Psalm 47:6 says, "Sing praises to God, sing praises to our King, sing praises."

Our Posture
1. Bowing - Psalm 95:6 says, "Come let us bow down in worship, let us kneel before the Lord our Maker."
2. Standing - Psalm 119:120 says, "My flesh trembles in fear of you; I stand in awe of your laws."
3. Dancing - Psalm 149:3 says, "Let them praise his name with dancing and make music to him with tambourine and harp."

Our Hands
1. Playing Instruments - Psalm 33:2, 3 says, "Praise the Lord with the harp; make music to him on the ten stringed lyre. Sing to him a new song; play skillfully, and shout for joy."
2. Clapping - Psalm 47:1 says, "Clap your hands, all you nations; shout to God with cries of joy."
3. Lifting Hands - Psalm 63:4 says, "I will praise you as long as I live, and in your name I will lift up my hands."
**********
They always give David as their license, but, God tells us in Amos 6:5--Woe to those that act like David:

AMOS 6:5
"That chant to the sound of the viol, and invent to themselves instruments of music, like David;"

You may ask, is a "worship leader" Biblical? In a way, they are. You see God created the first "worship leader".

Ezekiel 28:13-16
13 You were in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone was your covering: The sardius, topaz, and diamond, Beryl, onyx, and jasper, Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold. The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes Was prepared for you on the day you were created.
14 You were the anointed cherub who covers; I established you; You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.
15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, Till iniquity was found in you.
16 By the abundance of your trading You became filled with violence within, And you sinned; Therefore I cast you as a profane thing Out of the mountain of God; And I destroyed you, O covering cherub, From the midst of the fiery stones

Note: "tambrels" are tamborines and "pipes" are wind instruments.

It's no wonder that Satan is called the "enchanter." He has been using music from the very beginning to seduce his prey. It started early with the Bablyonian and Egyptian civilizations in which they would dance, clap, sing and play to their gods. The only thing most contemporary Churches are not doing presently is bringing the gods clean cloths everyday.

From the continent of Africa, where Voodoo chants called up the evil spirits to the shores of America , Satan has always been the user of music and the "worship leader" extraordinaire.

Isaiah14:11-12
11 Your pomp is brought down to Sheol, And the sound of your stringed instruments; The maggot is spread under you, And worms cover you.
12 How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, You who weakened the nations!

Let's take a look at how Satan uses others to seduce us with his music:

************
From Musician Carlos Santana:

Santana admits that his success is tied to a spiritual entity. Santana also claims that he has contact with the spirits of musicians who have died, such as Jimi Hendrix and Miles Davis. Santana has claimed that other artists who participated on his album, Supernatural, were brought to him supernaturally to be a part of Metatron's project. He claimed that they heard his music, or were communicated to in dreams, and were told they were to be part of the project.(1)

"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world." (1 John 4:1)
************

Eminem is the most successful artist of the 21st century. His Marshall Mathers LP sold an incredible 1.76 million copies in its first week, which is the highest first-week sale for a solo artist in history:

" I take seven [kids] from [columbine] and stand 'em all in line. Add an AK-47, a revolver, a nine, a Mac-11 and this ought to solve this problem of mine. And that's a whole school of bullies shot up all of the time, 'cause I'm Shady…"

" I take each individual degenerate's head and reach into it, just to see if he's influenced by me, if he listens to music, and if he feeds into this sh**, he's an innocent victim, and becomes a puppet on the string…"
************
Rolling Stone admitted:

"A song or an album can change your life; a great concert will change it on the spot."
***********

Tori Amos, who said that Lucifer sits at her piano and helps her with her music, said:

" Music is the most powerful medium in the world because of the frequencies. You're hitting places in people that remind them that they are more than just this functional being."
***********

Science writer and composer, Robert Jourdain, wrote in his book, Music, The Brain And Ecstacy:

" Music seems to be the most immediate of all the arts. …Music possesses us. …It really is as if some 'other' has entered not just our bodies, but our intentions, taking us over."
**********

Medical Dr. and brain specialist, Richard Pellegrino, who is a consultant to the entertainment industry, wrote an article for Billboard Magazine , about the power of music. Dr. Pellegrino speaks of the incomparable power of music upon the human brain, stating that music has the uncanny power to:

"… trigger a flood of human emotions and images that have the ability to instantaneously produce very powerful changes in emotional states."

Pellegrino went on to declare:

" Take it from a brain guy. In 25 years of working with the brain, I still cannot affect a person's state of mind the way that one simple song can."
********

Eminem states in his song, Marshall Mathers:

"I think I was put here to…destroy your little 4-year-old boy or girl."
********

Frank Zappa, who was quite anti-Christ, said that when he saw a fish on the back of someone's car he identified them as the enemy. He also admitted to the incredible power and influence rock music has over the human race. In an article he wrote for Life Magazine, he stated:

"The ways in which sound affects the human organism are myriad and subtle. The loud sounds and bright lights of today are tremendous indoctrination tools.
********
AC/DC was up-front with their fans when they made it clear that they not only found their fame in a rock band by Satan's power, but that they desired to drag their listeners into eternal damnation with them, "if God's on the left, I'm on the right…I'm gonna take ya to hell…I'm gonna get'cha-Satan got 'cha, Hell's Bells…If you're into evil, you're a friend of mine."
********
Michael Jackson:

"When I hit the stage it’s all of a sudden a magic from somewhere that comes and the spirit just hits you, and you lose control of yourself."

"I wake up from dreams and go, ‘Wow! Put this down on paper!’ The whole thing is strange. You hear the words, everything is right there in front of your face. And you say to yourself, ‘I’m sorry, I just didn’t write this. It’s there already’. I feel that somewhere, someplace, it’s all been done, and I’m the courier bringing it into the world."
*******

From these two sites (1)(2) alone I count well over 85 well known and famous music performers in all areas of music, Christian, blues, and Rock N Roll, that profess to be Satanically driven, or use pagan symbolism in their performances.

This list includes people like Robert Johnson-The Father of Blues, Elvis Presley, The Beatles, and even Amy Grant!

Dear Lord, please forgive us for what we have brought into your Church.



(1) They Sold Their Souls For Rock N Roll
http://www.goodfight.org/
(2) What's Wrong With Christian Rock?
http://www.freedomministries.org.uk/godwin/index.shtml
(3) Experiencing Worship - A Resource Guide For the Worshiper and Worship Leader
http://www.experiencingworship.com/
(4) The Deacons Beg For Answers, and The Elders Reply
http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/mes ... 1035417954

Read Secret Conversion Parts 1-6
http://www.concernedmembers.com/editori ... ersion.htm

So, the office of a WORSHIP LEADER, identified as the “leader” who leads the “regular followers” into the “holy” presence of God, is no longer an alarming thing to the New Testament church? Maybe … maybe not…. Much has already been said about the evolution of the WORSHIP LEADER concept in the initial post above. So, let’s move on to Madison’s current situation.

All the while, since his return from sabbatical, Keith Lancaster has been the Worship Leader in the “contemporary worship services” at 10:30am every Sunday. Meanwhile, both Kevin Dunnebacke and Stephen Vail had been alternating the role of “song leader” at the 8:00 a.m. assembly. [No, I’m not seeking any explanation nor drawing any definitive conclusion at this time as to why Worship Leader Keith is not “performing” or assuming the “leadership” role for the entire congregation—i.e., both assemblies.] But see if you notice the most recent pattern at the early gathering:
  • July 18, 2004—Kevin Dunnebacke
    July 25, 2004—Stephen Vail
    Aug. 01, 2004—Kevin Dunnebacke
    Aug. 08, 2004—Stephen Vail
    Aug. 15, 2004—Kevin Dunnebacke
    Aug. 22, 2004—Stephen Vail
    Aug. 25 (Wednesday—see below)
    Aug. 29, 2004—Kevin Dunnebacke
    Sept. 5, 2004—Kevin Dunnebacke
Oops! No, the above is not a misprint. On August 27, 2004, I received the following information:
  • <font color=blue>“Steven Vail’s employment was terminated at Madison Wednesday [Aug. 25] … ‘he will be seeking other opportunities.’”</font>
… to which I responded:
  • <font color=blue>“It’s a shame that this has occurred. In my opinion (and I’m not sure what yours is … at this stage [???????]), Madison should have terminated … um … what’s his face … Keith Lancaster. I think it’s a fair assessment that Keith is a much greater “expenditure” for Madison than Stephen was/is. The action is a clear indication of where the “new” leadership is taking the congregation to.”</font>
Well, at this point, I’m not getting into the rest of my conversation regarding the “power play by Keith” or about “Keith and Buck” or the “threat to his position,” etc. Perhaps, later on….

For now, it’s sad to see the right person gone … or the wrong person staying … whatever!

Donnie

P.S.: Unless the above information is proven to be incorrect, it will not be retracted.
Quote
Share