Chuck Sonn
Chuck Sonn

April 11th, 2003, 2:06 am #21

Chuck,

Don’t you think there’s enough material that you can respond to … for a start? If I were you I wouldn’t let an opportunity go by.

Donnie
Donnie,

I was just being courteous in letting you finish. I didn't want to respond until you had your chance to complete your thoughts.

There is no room for personal attacks in the body of Christ...for any reason.

The message af salvation is timeless. The methods of delivery will change to reach the masses as necessary. They have continued to change for millenia. The elders have made their decision and will live by it as they feel best serves our community and members. Any that don't agree can leave. As you have mentioned repeatedly, many have. Allow me to ask you one question which should provide all the answers that I need.

If the purpose of our assembly on the first day of the week is to worship our Creator and Savior in spirit and in truth, can you honestly say that your only focus is to truly worship Him that way? I can't comprehend one that has as much ill feeling toward people and practice being able to set that aside especially since those people and practices are part of what you consider worship.

My prayers will continue in your behalf.

Chuck
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Eddie
Eddie

April 11th, 2003, 2:46 pm #22

Eddie:

So, what about the early service? The last time I attended the 8 a.m. service, your WORSHIP LEADER was there, just as busy displaying MUSICAL WORSHIP talent to perfection. While his musicians weren’t sitting in front, they were interspersed in the crowd to give the appearance of LESS performance. (By the way, the attendance on March 30th was 520. This past Sunday, April 6th, the attendance was 467. Let’s just say that it was because of the time change -- some of the senior saints at the early assembly perhaps had a memory lapse or couldn’t “get up” early. In reality, it looks like some members are still being driven away.)

I’m sorry to disappoint you, Eddie, that regardless of circumstances, the truth still rises to the top. I doubt seriously that I need to retract my statement. Truths are not retractable. The verses you quoted should be familiar to and practiced by all Christians, including elders and even non-ordained, unauthorized “WORSHIP LEADERS.” In regard to discussing the issues on worship, the proper thing to do is for ALL ELDERS (NOT JUST ONE BUCK) to be involved in this CORE program. Then, the outcome or process is then implemented.

You certainly can help with this matter: why don’t you make a special effort to bring up all the verses that you just quoted to the entire leadership? It badly needs all these admonitions before some more members decide to leave the fellowship!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Donnie
Donnie,
Why don't you tell all of us when you last attended early service? My sources say you NEVER have. You are doing better about being on time for the late service.

Be glad to meet you at the church house this Sunday at 7:30 am. What say you?

Eddie
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Eddie
Eddie

April 11th, 2003, 3:03 pm #23

I have told you over and over and you haven't refuted it that:

Music in a "worship" sense had two Biblical purposes (don't tell me about David strumming to his sheep):

First: The MUSICAL WARRIOR LEVITES were under the King and Commanders of the army and NEVER under the priests were OUTSIDE the Holy Place as a type of the church.

Their SERVICE was "hard bondage" from a word with the same meaning as Abaddon or Apollyon. Because God had TURNED THEM OVER TO WORSHIP THE STARRY HOST as a result of the PERVERTED musicl idolatry at Mount Sinai and later demanding a human king so that they could worship like the nations, their service was quite identical to that of Canaan or Babylon.

That MUSICAL NOISE was exorcism of the bad demons and trying to call the GOOD GODS to the feast. Catholics therefore organized with both Precentors and EXORCISTS.

They were paying for their own sins and MOCKING prophetically Lord Jesus Christ. The Musical Levites again were prophesied to MOCK Jesus. They PIPED trying to get Him into the homosexual Dionysus song and dance.

The only MUSICIANS who entered into the Holy Places even in the vilest paganism was in Jerusalem where Zeus and Dionysus were "worshiped" in the Gymnasiums where they had to SET GUARDS to stiffle the homosexuality. They actually performed sexuality and homosexuality in temples dedicated to Zeus or Dionysus. That PLAGUE made Jerusalem so vile that Jesus spoke in parables to HIDE the gospel from them.

During many periods the Jews tolerated SINGERS which name roots to prostitutes and instrumentalists (normally a female domain) which roots to SODOMITES around the Temple.

SECOND: I told you that in pagan religions THERE IS NO OTHER TRADITON but that singers and musicians were of the LOWER CLASSES who could be abused as the final ACT OF WORSHIP (Re Wimber, Vineyard) just before paying your bill (something like tithing.)

MODERN SCHOLARS still agree with the documents of the Ancient Near East, the Biblical examples of "music," the church Fathers: THERE IS NO OTHER TRADITION which does not give credit to SATAN (Lucifer) for choirs and instrumentalists which ALWAYS included the qedeshot or "holy prostitutes."

Nimrod in Babylon, contemporary musicians, scientists and musicologists RECOGNIZE that "music" produces the impulses of FIGHT, FLIGHT OR SEXUALITY. Music injects endorphins or natural morphine. Once you are addicted, the HIGH which seems natural to you seems UNNATURAL to Donnie and the chased-away half of your crowd.

I watched a Mormon girl who had never tasted Caffein just about go into insanity when someone gave her just one APC.

THERE IS NO OTHER EVIDENCE WHICH YOU CAN USE TO DEFEND BRINGING PROFESSIONAL MUSICIANS AND ACTORS TO "STAND IN THE HOLY PLACE" PRETENDING TO BE MEDIATORS OR IN RUBEL SHELLY'S BORROWED WORDS: "BRING YOU INTO THE PRESENCE OF GOD."

I HEAR THE CLAPPY SONGS AS EXPLICITELY SEXUAL IN CONTENT.

THE CLAPPING AND BODY WORSHIP MAKES THE DIAGNOSIS CERTAIN TO ME, TO DONNIE AND I SUSPECT ABOUT HALF OF YOUR CONGREGATION YOU HAVE DISCORDED AND SCATTERED.

History knows it in pagan religions as SEXPERIENCE and not worship which happens ONLY in your HUMAN SPIRIT as the ONLY place God meets you. Leviticla musicians who attempted to go with the priests into the Holy Place as type of the church of Christ, or into the Most Holy Place a the PLACE where God meets a priest ONE AT A TIME would have been executed.

The MOTHER, Carol Wimber as the mother of the NEW STYLE HYMNALS insists that the next to last ACT OF WORSHIP is a music-induced CLIMACTIC expreience with God. The last ACT is giving of substance-tithing.

Now, if you cannot find any Biblically or historical evidence to refute 100% of the evidence, I claim that you have USED the PERSONA of Musical Performers and that PERSONA is universally that of sexuality.

You're next.

Ken Sublett
Ken,
Apparently you did not understand the question. You ramble on about things that simply don't apply. We don't have kings. We are not in hard bondage. We are not at Mt. Sinai. We ain't called the exorcist. We don't mock or pipe. There are no guards or plagues. No sodomites, no lower classes. We ain't in Babylon with Nimrod. We did not run anyone off, they left of their own will. I haven't seen an APC in 30 years, and not any here. AND, who in the world is Carol Wimber?

So, I fail to see where you are going with this madness.

I fail to understand why I even bother to answer you.

This conversation is over, unless you wish to meet with Donnie and I Sunday, at the church house, 7:30 am.
I bet I'm the only one that shows up.

Eddie
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Kenneth Sublett
Kenneth Sublett

April 11th, 2003, 5:13 pm #24

Here it is again, Eddie:

THERE IS NO OTHER EVIDENCE WHICH YOU CAN USE TO DEFEND BRINGING PROFESSIONAL MUSICIANS AND ACTORS TO "STAND IN THE HOLY PLACE" PRETENDING TO BE MEDIATORS OR IN RUBEL SHELLY'S BORROWED WORDS: "TO BRING YOU INTO THE PRESENCE OF GOD."

All of the ANTI-ISM such as Grace Centered and all of your THOUGHT LEADERS cannot see any condemnation of music in the Bible. The fact is THEY CANNOT SEE.

100% of the historical and Biblical evidence associates "religious" PRAISE SINGING and "music" to Satan, animal sacrifice EXORCISM, sexuality and perverted sexuality.

Jesus threw out, more or less violently like DUNG, the musical team and repudiated all of the Jewish additions of pagan music [I know that you haven't read that]. Therefore JESUS CHRIST is NOT your PATTERN.

The New Testament church is not your pattern.

The church historical theologians and historians are not your pattern.

The view of denominational founders is not your pattern.

Your thought leaders just lie about it!

WHAT IS YOUR PATTERN? The only "Lord" you imitate is the UNIVERSALLY polluted view of music in all paganism.

Therefore, what you are AFFLICTING the spiritual minds with is NOT REMOTELY CONNECTED TO CHRISTIANITY. In fact MELODY or PSALLO means to "grind the enemy into a fine powder."

The host of American religion PATTERNED after Hollywood, Dollywood and TBN is virtually going insane remodelling and BUYING the old Greek theater "mechanae" to WOW the crowd. Since the CALLED OUT ASSEMBLY is a tiny minority DON'T let popularity and even possible "growth"be the OBJECT of your faith. It is called a SCAM.

YOU understand. Ken
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Eddie Williams
Eddie Williams

April 13th, 2003, 7:51 pm #25

Ken,
Apparently you did not understand the question. You ramble on about things that simply don't apply. We don't have kings. We are not in hard bondage. We are not at Mt. Sinai. We ain't called the exorcist. We don't mock or pipe. There are no guards or plagues. No sodomites, no lower classes. We ain't in Babylon with Nimrod. We did not run anyone off, they left of their own will. I haven't seen an APC in 30 years, and not any here. AND, who in the world is Carol Wimber?

So, I fail to see where you are going with this madness.

I fail to understand why I even bother to answer you.

This conversation is over, unless you wish to meet with Donnie and I Sunday, at the church house, 7:30 am.
I bet I'm the only one that shows up.

Eddie
I guess most of you have figured out Ken and Donnie DID NOT show up this morning. You notice in the post below, Ken evades the invitation with more of his raves and rants about nothing. Donnie simply did not answer. In my mind this shows them for what they are. They will not face anyone. They only want to hide behind their keyboard and stir up as much trouble as they can. I hope I'm writing this for their eyes only, as it is my belief there are not many people that visit here for serious study. On this note, I should listen to my own advice, and stop trying to change their minds. It ain't going to happen. Ken is a lost cause. I have had hope for Donnie in the past.

Chuck, Evan, Dal, John, Mr. B, Roger, We have better things to do!

Eddie
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Kenneth Sublett
Kenneth Sublett

April 14th, 2003, 3:34 am #26

Watching the male warriors of our nation in action I cannot express to you the pride I feel. Why did they do it? I believe that there is a God- Given impulse which makes people 'plagued' with righteousness and social justice willing to give up their lives to keep the 150 pound bully from punching a little girl or an old woman in the nose and snatch their purse.

I think God that He gave me that "Y" to take in my life in Korea. So, I have felt that primal instinct which Christ did not remove. Furthermore, He gave true believer's the instinct of the Spiritual Warrior with both offensive and defensive weapons.

In my 72 plus years I have felt all of the human feelings known to mankind--except one. I was born in a sharecroppers cabin on my Grandfather's farm and then lived in two slave cabins. My mom knew very well how to turn feed bags into most clothing. In her later years they had a fair house to live in and all of their need met.

Then, I think about a small band of vandals stealing in and eating all of her food and turning her out of her house at aged 95. Oh, they tried: they INFILTRATED her house and DIVERTED her mind but I got there before they could "buy" her furniture from several generations past. My Jesus didn't impulse me to turn my mother's other cheek any more than He did when He was smacked.

That final emotion of UTTER SHAME was saved by God to let me see spewing from people who wear the name of CHRIST to know why He is "calling" out a body of people which YOU guys cannot call with carnal strokings.

The only thing which has made me feel SHAME to the point of TEARS has been the lying about the Bible, about Christ, about the church and the horrific oppression heaped on the heads of old people including widows being chased out of their church by a band of religionists who HAVE no shame--for now.

I listen to this fairly often to TEST my devotion to anything other than the next DRUG HIGH from the spiritual "crack" dealers.

http://www.civilwaralbum.com/audio /battlecryoffreedom.mid

Note that I had to take a space out after "audio" to make it fit.

No, by George, I wouldn't walk to the door.

Ken Sublett
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Donnie Cruz
Donnie Cruz

April 14th, 2003, 9:13 pm #27

I guess most of you have figured out Ken and Donnie DID NOT show up this morning. You notice in the post below, Ken evades the invitation with more of his raves and rants about nothing. Donnie simply did not answer. In my mind this shows them for what they are. They will not face anyone. They only want to hide behind their keyboard and stir up as much trouble as they can. I hope I'm writing this for their eyes only, as it is my belief there are not many people that visit here for serious study. On this note, I should listen to my own advice, and stop trying to change their minds. It ain't going to happen. Ken is a lost cause. I have had hope for Donnie in the past.

Chuck, Evan, Dal, John, Mr. B, Roger, We have better things to do!

Eddie
Eddie:

I realize you were extremely disappointed that nobody came to your self-appointed invitation. You should have already learned your lesson by then that extending an invitation like that would be futile. It’s unfortunate that a more effective way for some really SERIOUS study, covering more ground and more people and making use of time efficiently –- such as serious study on this site -- has never been your consideration. Meanwhile, as I have told John Paul George, I find that hiding behind my PC works for me. Regardless of how I hide, I can’t hide the truth. Somehow, the truth surfaces and I realize that the truth irritates and frustrates you to no end. And the truth is that I am not stirring trouble. I am simply exposing all the troubles stirred by your own friends and proponents of the Movements you’ve been participating in. Sorry!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Donnie
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Kenneth Sublett
Kenneth Sublett

April 15th, 2003, 5:36 pm #28

SECRET CONVERSION PART 7

GIVE US A WORSHIP LEADER

One of the signs of the "church growth movement" is the presence of a "worship leader". What is a worship leader?

First, to understand what is happening, you must know about the World Council of Churches. One of its goals is to bring all Churches, Muslin, Christian, Buddhist, Wicca, occultist and pagan religions of all sorts together under one umbrella. They don't hide this.

It was determined around 1962 that the best way to accomplish this goal was through a charismatic and contemporary music format. The best way to implement these changes was through a slow and gradual infiltration, which has become known (among other things) as the "church growth movement."

What we see today, with the rise of the "worship leader," is one of the tools that brings about change in the church. Since "music" is the key to make all this happen, then the "worship leader" will also be the "music" leader.

These people think the word of God needs a little help to reach all the "‘unchurched’ and ‘disenchanted." The "worship leader” has also become a big part of their "outreach ministry."

One of the Deacons at my former church asked the Elders about "worship leaders." Now, these men claim not to be working in "lock step" with the "Church Growth movement," but they sure know about "worship leaders," This what they said:

"IS RESPONSIBLE FOR PLANNING ALL AREAS OF THE WORSHIP SERVICE
AND THEN PRESENTING THESE PLANS TO THE WORSHIP COMMITTEE. THIS INCLUDES
THE LORD’S SUPPER, GIVING, PRAYERS, AND THE READING OF THE LORD,S WORD AS
WELL AS THE SONG SERVICE"(4)
***********
This is a want ad for a "worship leader:"(3)

Job Description: St Matthew’s Lutheran Church is passionate about reaching out to the richly diverse and secular neighbors whom we share the freeway with. We are looking for a Minister of Worship & Celebration (Lay or Ordained) who is wired to empower heart-felt worship using today’s music, multi-media and the arts. We are a grace driven ministry that relies upon team building to reach those who normally would not check out church. We tend to be a bit irreverent. We bring our coffee into worship and do not tend to attract the squeaky clean. We are looking for a leader who knows it’s not about them
**********
There are magazines and web sites(3) dedicated to the “worship leader." This has become a big business. Here is an excerpt form a recent article in a "worship leader" magazine telling a little about what they believe:

The Spoken Voice
1. Speaking - Psalm 34:1 says, "I will extol the Lord at all times; his praise will always be on my lips."
2. Shouting - Psalm 27:6 says, "Then my head will be exalted above the enemies who surround me; at his tabernacle will I sacrifice with shouts of joy; I will sing and make music to the Lord."
3. Singing - Psalm 47:6 says, "Sing praises to God, sing praises to our King, sing praises."

Our Posture
1. Bowing - Psalm 95:6 says, "Come let us bow down in worship, let us kneel before the Lord our Maker."
2. Standing - Psalm 119:120 says, "My flesh trembles in fear of you; I stand in awe of your laws."
3. Dancing - Psalm 149:3 says, "Let them praise his name with dancing and make music to him with tambourine and harp."

Our Hands
1. Playing Instruments - Psalm 33:2, 3 says, "Praise the Lord with the harp; make music to him on the ten stringed lyre. Sing to him a new song; play skillfully, and shout for joy."
2. Clapping - Psalm 47:1 says, "Clap your hands, all you nations; shout to God with cries of joy."
3. Lifting Hands - Psalm 63:4 says, "I will praise you as long as I live, and in your name I will lift up my hands."
**********
They always give David as their license, but, God tells us in Amos 6:5--Woe to those that act like David:

AMOS 6:5
"That chant to the sound of the viol, and invent to themselves instruments of music, like David;"

You may ask, is a "worship leader" Biblical? In a way, they are. You see God created the first "worship leader".

Ezekiel 28:13-16
13 You were in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone was your covering: The sardius, topaz, and diamond, Beryl, onyx, and jasper, Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold. The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes Was prepared for you on the day you were created.
14 You were the anointed cherub who covers; I established you; You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.
15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, Till iniquity was found in you.
16 By the abundance of your trading You became filled with violence within, And you sinned; Therefore I cast you as a profane thing Out of the mountain of God; And I destroyed you, O covering cherub, From the midst of the fiery stones

Note: "tambrels" are tamborines and "pipes" are wind instruments.

It's no wonder that Satan is called the "enchanter." He has been using music from the very beginning to seduce his prey. It started early with the Bablyonian and Egyptian civilizations in which they would dance, clap, sing and play to their gods. The only thing most contemporary Churches are not doing presently is bringing the gods clean cloths everyday.

From the continent of Africa, where Voodoo chants called up the evil spirits to the shores of America , Satan has always been the user of music and the "worship leader" extraordinaire.

Isaiah14:11-12
11 Your pomp is brought down to Sheol, And the sound of your stringed instruments; The maggot is spread under you, And worms cover you.
12 How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, You who weakened the nations!

Let's take a look at how Satan uses others to seduce us with his music:

************
From Musician Carlos Santana:

Santana admits that his success is tied to a spiritual entity. Santana also claims that he has contact with the spirits of musicians who have died, such as Jimi Hendrix and Miles Davis. Santana has claimed that other artists who participated on his album, Supernatural, were brought to him supernaturally to be a part of Metatron's project. He claimed that they heard his music, or were communicated to in dreams, and were told they were to be part of the project.(1)

"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world." (1 John 4:1)
************

Eminem is the most successful artist of the 21st century. His Marshall Mathers LP sold an incredible 1.76 million copies in its first week, which is the highest first-week sale for a solo artist in history:

" I take seven [kids] from [columbine] and stand 'em all in line. Add an AK-47, a revolver, a nine, a Mac-11 and this ought to solve this problem of mine. And that's a whole school of bullies shot up all of the time, 'cause I'm Shady…"

" I take each individual degenerate's head and reach into it, just to see if he's influenced by me, if he listens to music, and if he feeds into this sh**, he's an innocent victim, and becomes a puppet on the string…"
************
Rolling Stone admitted:

"A song or an album can change your life; a great concert will change it on the spot."
***********

Tori Amos, who said that Lucifer sits at her piano and helps her with her music, said:

" Music is the most powerful medium in the world because of the frequencies. You're hitting places in people that remind them that they are more than just this functional being."
***********

Science writer and composer, Robert Jourdain, wrote in his book, Music, The Brain And Ecstacy:

" Music seems to be the most immediate of all the arts. …Music possesses us. …It really is as if some 'other' has entered not just our bodies, but our intentions, taking us over."
**********

Medical Dr. and brain specialist, Richard Pellegrino, who is a consultant to the entertainment industry, wrote an article for Billboard Magazine , about the power of music. Dr. Pellegrino speaks of the incomparable power of music upon the human brain, stating that music has the uncanny power to:

"… trigger a flood of human emotions and images that have the ability to instantaneously produce very powerful changes in emotional states."

Pellegrino went on to declare:

" Take it from a brain guy. In 25 years of working with the brain, I still cannot affect a person's state of mind the way that one simple song can."
********

Eminem states in his song, Marshall Mathers:

"I think I was put here to…destroy your little 4-year-old boy or girl."
********

Frank Zappa, who was quite anti-Christ, said that when he saw a fish on the back of someone's car he identified them as the enemy. He also admitted to the incredible power and influence rock music has over the human race. In an article he wrote for Life Magazine, he stated:

"The ways in which sound affects the human organism are myriad and subtle. The loud sounds and bright lights of today are tremendous indoctrination tools.
********
AC/DC was up-front with their fans when they made it clear that they not only found their fame in a rock band by Satan's power, but that they desired to drag their listeners into eternal damnation with them, "if God's on the left, I'm on the right…I'm gonna take ya to hell…I'm gonna get'cha-Satan got 'cha, Hell's Bells…If you're into evil, you're a friend of mine."
********
Michael Jackson:

"When I hit the stage it’s all of a sudden a magic from somewhere that comes and the spirit just hits you, and you lose control of yourself."

"I wake up from dreams and go, ‘Wow! Put this down on paper!’ The whole thing is strange. You hear the words, everything is right there in front of your face. And you say to yourself, ‘I’m sorry, I just didn’t write this. It’s there already’. I feel that somewhere, someplace, it’s all been done, and I’m the courier bringing it into the world."
*******

From these two sites (1)(2) alone I count well over 85 well known and famous music performers in all areas of music, Christian, blues, and Rock N Roll, that profess to be Satanically driven, or use pagan symbolism in their performances.

This list includes people like Robert Johnson-The Father of Blues, Elvis Presley, The Beatles, and even Amy Grant!

Dear Lord, please forgive us for what we have brought into your Church.



(1) They Sold Their Souls For Rock N Roll
http://www.goodfight.org/
(2) What's Wrong With Christian Rock?
http://www.freedomministries.org.uk/godwin/index.shtml
(3) Experiencing Worship - A Resource Guide For the Worshiper and Worship Leader
http://www.experiencingworship.com/
(4) The Deacons Beg For Answers, and The Elders Reply
http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/mes ... 1035417954

Read Secret Conversion Parts 1-6
http://www.concernedmembers.com/editori ... ersion.htm

A NEW COMMERCIAL SOWING OF DISCORD PAGAN MOVEMENT

------------GO LIGHT YOUR WORLD-----------

is a song which has become the MANTRA of those trying to SHINE THEIR OWN LIGHT as the "idolatry of talent."

For instance, the COMMERCIAL "PRAYER, CARE, SHARE INSTRUCTION WITH MARY MARR" notes that: "LIGHTHOUSES IN HARMONY facilitates current and potential Lighthouse ARTISTS, musicians and WORSHIP LEADERS to shine the Light of Jesus Christ through CONCERTS, church services and CITYWIDE gatherings. [P.S. and book shows and sell CDs.]

THE TRUTH PART IS THAT MUSIC FACILITATES THE MUSICIANS AND NOT CHRIST. There is no better REALITY CHECK than the Lucifer character who began BLEEDING OFF worship from God even in Heaven rising again in his AGENTS like Judas whose JUDAS BAG carried mouthpieces of WIND INSTRUMENTS.

The Catholic Campus Ministry uses this SHINING theme and their Logo is a RISING SUN. Remember our notes from Shelly about BAPTIZING SANTA and Lucado's COSMIC CHRISTMAS looking like SUN WORSHIP and Shelly's thinking of the S.O.N. God as the S.U.N. god? Well, under various slick titles his number is 666. And remember CHRIST-MASS and ISHTAR SERVICES?

Even in heaven there were TWO sources of light. God IS LIGHT but Lucifer (Latin) tried to be a LIGHT "BULB" to steal the worship from God. He was cast out and showed up in the garden of Eden as a Musical Enchanter replacing the LIGHT of God's presence. He embodied percussion, wind and string instruments.

The superiority of the Jews was in their mind and not in God's. Paul wrote about those who thought they could GO LIGHT THE WORLD. Instead they made CONVERTS worse than themselves.

--"And art confident that thou THYSELF art a guide of the blind, a LIGHT of them which are in DARKNESS, Rom 2: 19

----"An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the FORM of knowledge and of the truth in the law. Rom 2: 20

Paul told them in 2 Cor. 3 that they were BLIND AND DEAF because they had not recognized that Spirit of Christ was the Spirit of their dispensation. Paul warned those who would GO LIGHT THE WORLD with their own COMMERCIAL MUSICAL TALENT:

--"THEREFORE, seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not; 2 Cor 4:1

----"But have renounced the hidden things of DISHONESTY, not walking in CRAFTINESS, nor handling the word of God DECEITFULLY; but, by manifestation of the TRUTH, commending ourselves to every mans conscience in the sight of God. 2 Cor 4:2

When Jesus comes the BABYLON PROSTITUTE will repeat the FALL of Lucifer as the king of Tyre and of Babylon: the harp- playing prostitutes:

----"Rev 18:22 And the voice of harpers, and MUSICIANS, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no CRAFTSMAN, of whatsoever CRAFT... AND NOT EVEN THE LIGHT OF A CANDLE

--"But if our gospel be HID, it is hid to them that are LOST: 2 Cor 4:3

----"In whom the god of this world hath BLINDED the minds of them which believe not, lest the LIGHT of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should SHINE unto them. 2 Cor 4:4

----"For we preach NOT OURSELVES, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your SERVANTS for Jesus sake. 2 Cor 4:5

----"For God, who commanded the LIGHT to shine out of darkness, hath SHINED in our HEARTS, to give the LIGHT of the KNOWLEDGE of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. 2 Cor 4:6

----"But we have this treasure in EARTHEN vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us. 2 Cor 4:7

Ostrakinos is earthern-ware and indeed we have PROOF of the Word of God because men wrote on fragments of clay jars and hid documents in clay jars TO BE PRESERVED.

The false LIGHTHOUSE IS LUCIFER who is always in opposition to the WORD of God:

---Heylel ( h1966) hay-lale'; from 1984 (in the sense of BRIGHTNESS); the morning-star: - lucifer.

---Halal (h1984) haw-lal'; a prim. root; to be clear (orig. of sound, but usually of color); TO SHINE shine; hence to make a show, to boast; and thus to be (clamorously) foolish .. shine. PRAISE.

The LIGHT that we have UNIVERSALLY associates MUSIC with Satan and his disciples who say: "We will not listen to the Word of God."

MUSIC is the defacto PROOF that people are telling Jesus that "we WILL NOT GO and teach your Word as it has been taught." By claiming to preach CHRIST through their truly childish "praise songs" they are FULFILLING end- time prophecy where COMMERCIAL SUCCESS TOTALLY CORRUPTS.

Contra Shelly, Peter and the other Apostles SAW the light of the transfiguration of Jesus Christ. They were not preaching CUNNINNGLY DEVISED FABLES (songs) but saw the LIGHT shine out from Jesus into their literal eyes.

---2 Peter 1:19 We have also a more sure WORD of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye TAKE HEAD (a worship word), as unto a LIGHT that shineth in a dark place, until the DAY DAWN, and the DAY STAR arise in your hearts:

---2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

PRIVATE INTERPRETATION means FURTHER EXPOUNDING. Those who BRAG about LIGHTING THE WORLD with their own FALSE "FURTHER EXPOUNDING in song" violate this law and GIVE ABSOLUTE PROOF inherent in all of the MUSICAL passages which shouts to the world: WE WILL NOT LISTEN TO THE WORD OF GOD.

The ONLY LIGHT OTHER THAN the Light Jesus shined forth as Full Deity and inspired in His Holy word is the musicians HALAL LIGHT. That translates to the fact that HEYLEL or LUCIFER is just making a fool out of them. No doubt, the COURT JESTERS will be at the WORKSHOP OF EVIL. And we told you that when God POURS OUT HIS WRATH he sends strong deluders as BUFFOONS.

Ken Sublett
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Donnie Cruz
Donnie Cruz

April 18th, 2003, 8:09 pm #29

Ephesians 4 summarizes the church’s organization and emphasizes unity. The writer states: “[1] I therefore … beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called … [3] Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. [4] There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; [5] One Lord, one faith, one baptism, [6] One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. [7] But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ. [8] … and gave gifts unto men. [11] And he gave some, APOSTLES; and some, PROPHETS; and some, EVANGELISTS; and some, PASTORS [ELDERS or BISHOPS or SHEPHERDS] and TEACHERS; [12] For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: [13] Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God … [14] That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; [15] But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ …”

The offices of ELDERS and DEACONS are specified in several passages: elders ordained in every church (Acts 14:23; 16:17; Acts 15), with listed qualifications in I Timothy 3 and Titus 1. The ministry of EVANGELISTS is exemplified by Philip (Acts 21:8) or Timothy and Mark (2 Tim. 4:5,11) and of TEACHERS in Hebrews 5:12.

Lord Jesus Christ, our ONLY mediator:

(1) Teaches us in a model prayer to our Father in Matthew 6:9-13. “After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever.” Amen.” Of course, we pray in Jesus’ name (Eph. 5:20; Col. 3:17). And even in Jesus’ name do we withdraw fellowship from a brother: “Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.” (II Thess. 3:6)

(2) Instructs us in our worship of the Father: “But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.” (John 4:23,24)

The big question is: Should congregations of the church of Christ (Rom. 16:16), without God’s authority, have the liberty to include the following OFFICES or POSITIONS in the church’s ORG CHART:

--- WORSHIP LEADER or WORSHIP FACILITATOR
--- MUSICIANS (CHOIR, PRAISE TEAM, HANDCLAPPERS)
--- CHIEF ELDER
--- ASSISTANT CHIEF ELDER
--- SHEPHERDESSES
--- DEACONESSES
--- MODERN DAY APOSTLES (like Don Finto)
--- CHARISMATIC FAITH HEALERS
--- WOMEN MINISTERS (such as Paula, Petra, Johnna, Timothya, Marka)
--- POPES, CARDINALS AND ARCHBISHOPS for churches of Christ
--- Etc. (Feel free to add more to the list)

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++~
Donnie Cruz
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Kenneth Sublett
Kenneth Sublett

June 4th, 2003, 7:17 pm #30

SECRET CONVERSION PART 7

GIVE US A WORSHIP LEADER

One of the signs of the "church growth movement" is the presence of a "worship leader". What is a worship leader?

First, to understand what is happening, you must know about the World Council of Churches. One of its goals is to bring all Churches, Muslin, Christian, Buddhist, Wicca, occultist and pagan religions of all sorts together under one umbrella. They don't hide this.

It was determined around 1962 that the best way to accomplish this goal was through a charismatic and contemporary music format. The best way to implement these changes was through a slow and gradual infiltration, which has become known (among other things) as the "church growth movement."

What we see today, with the rise of the "worship leader," is one of the tools that brings about change in the church. Since "music" is the key to make all this happen, then the "worship leader" will also be the "music" leader.

These people think the word of God needs a little help to reach all the "‘unchurched’ and ‘disenchanted." The "worship leader” has also become a big part of their "outreach ministry."

One of the Deacons at my former church asked the Elders about "worship leaders." Now, these men claim not to be working in "lock step" with the "Church Growth movement," but they sure know about "worship leaders," This what they said:

"IS RESPONSIBLE FOR PLANNING ALL AREAS OF THE WORSHIP SERVICE
AND THEN PRESENTING THESE PLANS TO THE WORSHIP COMMITTEE. THIS INCLUDES
THE LORD’S SUPPER, GIVING, PRAYERS, AND THE READING OF THE LORD,S WORD AS
WELL AS THE SONG SERVICE"(4)
***********
This is a want ad for a "worship leader:"(3)

Job Description: St Matthew’s Lutheran Church is passionate about reaching out to the richly diverse and secular neighbors whom we share the freeway with. We are looking for a Minister of Worship & Celebration (Lay or Ordained) who is wired to empower heart-felt worship using today’s music, multi-media and the arts. We are a grace driven ministry that relies upon team building to reach those who normally would not check out church. We tend to be a bit irreverent. We bring our coffee into worship and do not tend to attract the squeaky clean. We are looking for a leader who knows it’s not about them
**********
There are magazines and web sites(3) dedicated to the “worship leader." This has become a big business. Here is an excerpt form a recent article in a "worship leader" magazine telling a little about what they believe:

The Spoken Voice
1. Speaking - Psalm 34:1 says, "I will extol the Lord at all times; his praise will always be on my lips."
2. Shouting - Psalm 27:6 says, "Then my head will be exalted above the enemies who surround me; at his tabernacle will I sacrifice with shouts of joy; I will sing and make music to the Lord."
3. Singing - Psalm 47:6 says, "Sing praises to God, sing praises to our King, sing praises."

Our Posture
1. Bowing - Psalm 95:6 says, "Come let us bow down in worship, let us kneel before the Lord our Maker."
2. Standing - Psalm 119:120 says, "My flesh trembles in fear of you; I stand in awe of your laws."
3. Dancing - Psalm 149:3 says, "Let them praise his name with dancing and make music to him with tambourine and harp."

Our Hands
1. Playing Instruments - Psalm 33:2, 3 says, "Praise the Lord with the harp; make music to him on the ten stringed lyre. Sing to him a new song; play skillfully, and shout for joy."
2. Clapping - Psalm 47:1 says, "Clap your hands, all you nations; shout to God with cries of joy."
3. Lifting Hands - Psalm 63:4 says, "I will praise you as long as I live, and in your name I will lift up my hands."
**********
They always give David as their license, but, God tells us in Amos 6:5--Woe to those that act like David:

AMOS 6:5
"That chant to the sound of the viol, and invent to themselves instruments of music, like David;"

You may ask, is a "worship leader" Biblical? In a way, they are. You see God created the first "worship leader".

Ezekiel 28:13-16
13 You were in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone was your covering: The sardius, topaz, and diamond, Beryl, onyx, and jasper, Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold. The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes Was prepared for you on the day you were created.
14 You were the anointed cherub who covers; I established you; You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.
15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, Till iniquity was found in you.
16 By the abundance of your trading You became filled with violence within, And you sinned; Therefore I cast you as a profane thing Out of the mountain of God; And I destroyed you, O covering cherub, From the midst of the fiery stones

Note: "tambrels" are tamborines and "pipes" are wind instruments.

It's no wonder that Satan is called the "enchanter." He has been using music from the very beginning to seduce his prey. It started early with the Bablyonian and Egyptian civilizations in which they would dance, clap, sing and play to their gods. The only thing most contemporary Churches are not doing presently is bringing the gods clean cloths everyday.

From the continent of Africa, where Voodoo chants called up the evil spirits to the shores of America , Satan has always been the user of music and the "worship leader" extraordinaire.

Isaiah14:11-12
11 Your pomp is brought down to Sheol, And the sound of your stringed instruments; The maggot is spread under you, And worms cover you.
12 How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, You who weakened the nations!

Let's take a look at how Satan uses others to seduce us with his music:

************
From Musician Carlos Santana:

Santana admits that his success is tied to a spiritual entity. Santana also claims that he has contact with the spirits of musicians who have died, such as Jimi Hendrix and Miles Davis. Santana has claimed that other artists who participated on his album, Supernatural, were brought to him supernaturally to be a part of Metatron's project. He claimed that they heard his music, or were communicated to in dreams, and were told they were to be part of the project.(1)

"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world." (1 John 4:1)
************

Eminem is the most successful artist of the 21st century. His Marshall Mathers LP sold an incredible 1.76 million copies in its first week, which is the highest first-week sale for a solo artist in history:

" I take seven [kids] from [columbine] and stand 'em all in line. Add an AK-47, a revolver, a nine, a Mac-11 and this ought to solve this problem of mine. And that's a whole school of bullies shot up all of the time, 'cause I'm Shady…"

" I take each individual degenerate's head and reach into it, just to see if he's influenced by me, if he listens to music, and if he feeds into this sh**, he's an innocent victim, and becomes a puppet on the string…"
************
Rolling Stone admitted:

"A song or an album can change your life; a great concert will change it on the spot."
***********

Tori Amos, who said that Lucifer sits at her piano and helps her with her music, said:

" Music is the most powerful medium in the world because of the frequencies. You're hitting places in people that remind them that they are more than just this functional being."
***********

Science writer and composer, Robert Jourdain, wrote in his book, Music, The Brain And Ecstacy:

" Music seems to be the most immediate of all the arts. …Music possesses us. …It really is as if some 'other' has entered not just our bodies, but our intentions, taking us over."
**********

Medical Dr. and brain specialist, Richard Pellegrino, who is a consultant to the entertainment industry, wrote an article for Billboard Magazine , about the power of music. Dr. Pellegrino speaks of the incomparable power of music upon the human brain, stating that music has the uncanny power to:

"… trigger a flood of human emotions and images that have the ability to instantaneously produce very powerful changes in emotional states."

Pellegrino went on to declare:

" Take it from a brain guy. In 25 years of working with the brain, I still cannot affect a person's state of mind the way that one simple song can."
********

Eminem states in his song, Marshall Mathers:

"I think I was put here to…destroy your little 4-year-old boy or girl."
********

Frank Zappa, who was quite anti-Christ, said that when he saw a fish on the back of someone's car he identified them as the enemy. He also admitted to the incredible power and influence rock music has over the human race. In an article he wrote for Life Magazine, he stated:

"The ways in which sound affects the human organism are myriad and subtle. The loud sounds and bright lights of today are tremendous indoctrination tools.
********
AC/DC was up-front with their fans when they made it clear that they not only found their fame in a rock band by Satan's power, but that they desired to drag their listeners into eternal damnation with them, "if God's on the left, I'm on the right…I'm gonna take ya to hell…I'm gonna get'cha-Satan got 'cha, Hell's Bells…If you're into evil, you're a friend of mine."
********
Michael Jackson:

"When I hit the stage it’s all of a sudden a magic from somewhere that comes and the spirit just hits you, and you lose control of yourself."

"I wake up from dreams and go, ‘Wow! Put this down on paper!’ The whole thing is strange. You hear the words, everything is right there in front of your face. And you say to yourself, ‘I’m sorry, I just didn’t write this. It’s there already’. I feel that somewhere, someplace, it’s all been done, and I’m the courier bringing it into the world."
*******

From these two sites (1)(2) alone I count well over 85 well known and famous music performers in all areas of music, Christian, blues, and Rock N Roll, that profess to be Satanically driven, or use pagan symbolism in their performances.

This list includes people like Robert Johnson-The Father of Blues, Elvis Presley, The Beatles, and even Amy Grant!

Dear Lord, please forgive us for what we have brought into your Church.



(1) They Sold Their Souls For Rock N Roll
http://www.goodfight.org/
(2) What's Wrong With Christian Rock?
http://www.freedomministries.org.uk/godwin/index.shtml
(3) Experiencing Worship - A Resource Guide For the Worshiper and Worship Leader
http://www.experiencingworship.com/
(4) The Deacons Beg For Answers, and The Elders Reply
http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/mes ... 1035417954

Read Secret Conversion Parts 1-6
http://www.concernedmembers.com/editori ... ersion.htm

The Jews had a WORSHIP LEADER who frequently led them to the temple area and then down into TOPHETH. Named after the tophet or tamborine. It was once "the king's music grove" and it came to stand for hell itself where the king/queen of Babylon and his/her musicians and harps and other instruments went back into Sheol with him to burn and rot on a bed of maggots.

He was Molech or Chiun or Saturn the 666 character. You burned little babies at the end of the musical procession led by your musical worship leaders. You made lots of "music" so that the priest could not hear the baby screams as evil but get a REVELATION out of the CONSUMING FIRES. Satan just loves little babies. There is no better way to BURN the brain with new HARD WIRED connections which confuses the charismatic or sexual music-induced drug to Spiritual worship.

In Phoenix, Zoe (Lucifer the superior to little Jesus) and the MOTHER of little Jehovah, will bring down the CONSUMING FIRES. Of course, all fire worship is devil worship and God's FIRES are reserved for those who will not come before Him in REVERENCE AND FEAR. He will burn them up beginning-RIGHT NOW-by their OWN breath. You can go to Phoenix to learn how to be a MISLEADER for Satan.

----"Eze.28:18 Thou hast DEFILED thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy TRAFFICK; therefore will I bring forth a FIRE from the MIDST of THE, it shall DEVOUR THE, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.

DEFILED means to bring music into the holy places: the word is translated as to PLAY THE FULTE, POLLUTE OR PROSTITUTE. It has the same root meaning of HALAL or praise singing which was "making self vile." The word translated LUCIFER is derived from the praise word of the lost souls. Lucifer came from walking among the burning stones. Hope you have tough feet.

I have done a rendering to and old woodblock to show you Zoe's MARK or LOGO of a consuming fire comming out of his belly (liberties taken) consuming the children of the MUSICAL PERFORMERS. I like it.

http://www.piney.com/Zoe-Look-To-The-Hills.html

The applaud of the six-packers and unlawful, faithless preachermen is just God MOCKING you.

God to Phoenix to become a worship leader but bring along the marshmellows. The burning process has begun: that is the reason for the wails of lost souls like banshees reverberating through the halls of hell.

Ken
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