GARDENDALE BAPTIST CHURCH, Corpus Christi, Texas

One of the flock
One of the flock

August 3rd, 2004, 3:23 pm #11

I found this on the internet. Here's what some people feel about his Micah Davidson's Leadership.


Tuesday, July 20, 2004
church politics stink II

I was floored to read this in today’s Corpus Christi paper. (Free registration required.) In one large Baptist church, if you don’t think the pastor is Moses incarnate, you’re outta there:

Members of Gardendale Baptist Church voted Sunday to expel about 165 members from their congregation because they did not support the leadership of the church's pastor, according to a church spokesman and several ousted members.

In a letter to the congregation, Micah Davidson, the church's pastor, called a business meeting after a July 18 baptismal service at which members would vote on the following statement: "Pastor Micah is the God-called pastor for Gardendale and is leading us in God's direction or not."

Davidson also stated in the letter that he would leave immediately if the church voted against him.

"If the church votes for me to stay," he wrote, "those who vote against me will be removed from membership in the family immediately."

The vote was about 750 to 165 in favor of the pastor, according to John Gilbert, administrative pastor of the church. Immediately after the vote of confidence, members voted to revoke the memberships of those who voted against Davidson. Gilbert said that of the 165 members who were "removed from membership," all could come back to church if they "signed a covenant for church unity."

I would have voted against the pastor simply because he called such a vote, even if that did mean I was kicked out of the church.

Apparently, there’s a cult of personality thing going on here. If memory serves me right, this is the church that has a big billboard on the main drag in Corpus featuring – you guessed it – the pastor and his wife. Yes, I know (too many) other churches do that. It still sets off alarm bells for me.

Whatever you think of congregational government (I think it stinks.), the problem with some U. S. Baptist churches is that they are really dictatorships of the pastor. Even those that are not are often far too pastor-centered.

But this is over-the-top even by Baptist standards. That a man would exercise such raw power to consolidate his personal position and cast out those who disagree automatically disqualifies him from leadership.

By the way, in case you haven’t noticed, that’s one of my criteria for a church – the leadership must not be power-hungry control freaks.

(And sorry if I’m beating up on Baptists a bit here. You may have noticed I think most churches across the denominational spectrum botch how they handle authority.)

UPDATE: Here's a follow-up story.

// posted by Mark @ 9:24 AM
Though I agree with most of what you are saying, you stated that U.S. Baptist church govt. are dictatorships. Gardendale Baptist Church was a well run democratically run church for 100 years. There have been timees when people did not agree on some matter. But with a merciful spirit of reconcilliation as well as a desire to remain a loving flock: all members were guaranteed a voice during the well run regularly scheduled business meetings. We also had bilaws that were prayerfully written in order to provide stucture in part to the business end of running this dynamic church's activities and finaces. Speaking of finances, the treasurer was a godly man who was gifted at what he did and was always happy to pull up a report AT ANY TIME to show the infow and outflow of funds.
The problem at our church is now that the pastor has removed all these systems of carefully and prayerfully created checks and balances.NOW,Micah Davidson and Jimmy Dodson and Tom Ringo and John Gilbert can band together with RICK WARREN and create a fellowship in his format of worship, government, and purpose.
In order to pull this off right before our eyes, there had to be a lot of lies told, secret agendas shared in whispers away from the ears of anyone who might oppose, changes were made( removing Baptist from our sign) and then covered with fictitious stories that the City made us do it! (By the way, who is the Father of Deceit? YIKES!)
And what became of the the voices of the discerning who began seeing not only this prideful shifting of power into the hands of this Micah Davidson and his band thieves but also, the incorporation of a worship style that would "appeal to the lost"
(But, hey guys they are LOST. Do you really think we should be taking our cues from the world? We should be peculiar the LOST WORLD. The differences they should see in us, the peace, the joy, the love the hope the patience the understanding, the the kindnesss, the self-control will be evident if God indeed is in us and with us. HE will draw the people to himself. You don't need to contrive this work by your own hands Just let GOD do what He wants to do. ) The big vote happened when Micah Davidson decided that he could not go on much longer doing the work of Rick Warren without having to admit it. He kept saying "We are not trying to like any other church!!" when seemingly he was acting out the now widely circulated Rick Warrens plan for chuch growth. And culminating in ridding the church of any and all who would stand against him. So, that Sunday night, about 200 people were jeered at -leered at as they stood boldly for the God that changed their lives. We tearfully sang "IT Is WELL WITH MY SOUL" The crowd around us laughed and yelled at one deacon (who had been promised by Micah that he would be allowed to speak) SIT DOWN ! and then proceeded to make loud garbled sounds so that neither this Grady Jackson nor the other two elderly preachers who were in front of the pulpit asking Micah to "Stop this behavior and brinng this flock together again" Micah et al. videotaped tis whole horrible display of pride and might verses humble and upright mixed with many confused onlookers. They viewed this tape the next week in order to know who to remove from the membership rolls.
This is an example not of Baptist churches not having good methods of government. This is an example of the teachings of Rick Warren being used to the hilt regardless of the flock already pursuing the work of the Lord as He had laid it on their hearts. Also it is an example to us all how the devil can creep into your life right into your face if you aren't wary and unapologetically cause great havoc.
No, the ousted group have not lost our faith. The devil can not touch our souls those are concecrated to GOD through salvation by the blood of his son Jesus Christ. But, satan would like to muss up the bride real good. The issue I raise is why would anyone want to come into a beautiful loving congrgation and sow lies, distrust and pain?
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Concerned Member Jeff
Concerned Member Jeff

August 3rd, 2004, 8:59 pm #12

These are from the local paper...Look what the community thinks now....
Old vs. new
As a church member of another Baptist church, I disagreed
with a decision that was made by my church, and left that
church of my own volition. I can understand a person or a
group of persons taking that action. What I do not
understand is a leader of the church making that decision
for 165 members.
This is supposed to be a House of God, not a political
playground. Could the solution have been as simple as
having a traditional service on Wednesday and Sunday
nights?
It seems that a great number of the members voted out were
older members. Who made this church what it was when some
of the current members were not yet born? I am so deeply
disappointed in the unloving and seemingly political move
by the supposed leadership of this Baptist church that we
will be visiting other denominations of churches.
If I am going to follow a Christian leader, I think that I
want to be sure he is on the right path to Heaven. I am
positive that I can find the other path without any help.
No, I am not painting all Baptists with the same
paintbrush. I know many loving, working, generous Christian
Baptists. Shame on you supposed leaders of Gardendale
Baptist Church for causing me to judge you. You have now
caused me to be judged also.
Zelma Champion
***********************************************************
All lose
I have been reading of all the happenings at Gardendale
Baptist Church. If any of them think they are winners, they
are wrong - everyone is a loser.
As I follow the recent happenings in the Baptist and
Catholic churches, what a shame. It's OK for them to be
losers, but they have hurt the Gospel of Christ and that is
not acceptable. Shame on them.
Kenneth Wilson
(Ingleside)
*********************************************************
Unfair expulsion
I would like to thank the Caller-Times for your article
(July 20) about the expulsion of 165 members of the
Gardendale Baptist Church.
On the whole, your article was balanced and reflected the
division accurately. One group (the one that was expelled)
requested procedural oversight of budgetary decisions. The
other group saw those requests as somehow hindering the
church's mission.
However, your article omitted several important points.
First, the vote to expel the 165 members was taken without
debate. That is, the expelled members had no chance to
present a defense or make a statement on their own behalf.
Second, members were given only one week's notice of the
vote. Third, no formal charges detailing specific
violations of church doctrine were filed against the
accused.
The lesson here for anyone who belongs to any organization
is to make sure that specific written procedures are included in the bylaws for expulsion of members. These
procedures should include basic protections for the
accused.
It is a sad witness for a church when it denies its own
members the basic human dignity of defending oneself.
Michael A. Piatt
*********************************************************
Top-down rule?
I was appalled and amazed at the article in Tuesday's paper
(July 20) about the ousting of 165 members of Gardendale
church. I assume that since the church no longer uses the
word "Baptist" in its name it is no longer affiliated with
the Southern Baptist Convention or any other of the
established Baptist conventions.
I did some research on what amounts to the "shunning" of
this many members at one time. Most religions have a method
by which individual members may be removed. The Catholics
have excommunication, the Scientologists have
"disconnection," Jehovah's Witnesses use the word
"disfellowship," Judaism has "Cherem" and the Mormons, the
Amish and Quakers refer to the removal as "shunning." In
none of these cases are 165 people "shunned" at one time.
Nowhere in the Baptist Church is there a provision for
removing members of the congregation: once a member, always
a member; once a deacon, always a deacon. Not only the
minister, but also a board of congregants oversees church
business.
It would appear that the Gardendale Church is now run by an
autonomous minister, answerable to no one. Disagree and
you're gone. Sounds like a dictatorship to me.
Ann C. Couser
*******************************************************
Church cleaning
I am not sure why the Caller-Times has chosen to hang out
to dry the dirty laundry of one good church, but chosen you
have, and equal time you must give to all.
There are oxymorons and then there are oxymorons. A couple
that I'm reminded of are "good loser" and "religious tolerance."
When I think of this last one and read your comments about
Gardendale Baptist Church, I feel there must have been a
mistake. Writer Venessa Santos-Garza must have missed the
point and not interviewed everyone. At least she didn't
talk to me or others who have been all but forced to leave
because of the actions and/or lack of church leadership.
You see, I was once a member of Gardendale. When it came
time for church discipline back when I was all but forced
to leave my church family behind, where were the chosen 165
then? No one asked to help me stay.
So, in all that I've read that the Caller-Times has printed
these past few days, the biggest oxymoron of all that has
been a big part of Gardendale: "friend against friend."
Power to you, Brother Micah. May bygones be bygones. You're
not the only one who has cleaned house. And the Lord knows
who should stay and who should go. Get on with being a
church. Help those who want to be helped. Continue to pray
for those who would dissent.
Jim Robbins
*******************************************************
People are still ticked off around the community as you will read from the caller times:

Out the door

The Bible tells us how to deal with differences of opinion. We are to go to the person with whom we disagree and try to settle things.

If that does not work, we are to return with a witness and try again. If that does not work, we then take it to the church membership.

From what we read, the pastor of Gardendale Baptist Church did not follow these New Testament teachings. It appears that he became a dictator, and it was his way or the highway for 165 people who did not agree with him.

Bill Kelley

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Melissa Williams
Melissa Williams

August 3rd, 2004, 11:00 pm #13

Though I agree with most of what you are saying, you stated that U.S. Baptist church govt. are dictatorships. Gardendale Baptist Church was a well run democratically run church for 100 years. There have been timees when people did not agree on some matter. But with a merciful spirit of reconcilliation as well as a desire to remain a loving flock: all members were guaranteed a voice during the well run regularly scheduled business meetings. We also had bilaws that were prayerfully written in order to provide stucture in part to the business end of running this dynamic church's activities and finaces. Speaking of finances, the treasurer was a godly man who was gifted at what he did and was always happy to pull up a report AT ANY TIME to show the infow and outflow of funds.
The problem at our church is now that the pastor has removed all these systems of carefully and prayerfully created checks and balances.NOW,Micah Davidson and Jimmy Dodson and Tom Ringo and John Gilbert can band together with RICK WARREN and create a fellowship in his format of worship, government, and purpose.
In order to pull this off right before our eyes, there had to be a lot of lies told, secret agendas shared in whispers away from the ears of anyone who might oppose, changes were made( removing Baptist from our sign) and then covered with fictitious stories that the City made us do it! (By the way, who is the Father of Deceit? YIKES!)
And what became of the the voices of the discerning who began seeing not only this prideful shifting of power into the hands of this Micah Davidson and his band thieves but also, the incorporation of a worship style that would "appeal to the lost"
(But, hey guys they are LOST. Do you really think we should be taking our cues from the world? We should be peculiar the LOST WORLD. The differences they should see in us, the peace, the joy, the love the hope the patience the understanding, the the kindnesss, the self-control will be evident if God indeed is in us and with us. HE will draw the people to himself. You don't need to contrive this work by your own hands Just let GOD do what He wants to do. ) The big vote happened when Micah Davidson decided that he could not go on much longer doing the work of Rick Warren without having to admit it. He kept saying "We are not trying to like any other church!!" when seemingly he was acting out the now widely circulated Rick Warrens plan for chuch growth. And culminating in ridding the church of any and all who would stand against him. So, that Sunday night, about 200 people were jeered at -leered at as they stood boldly for the God that changed their lives. We tearfully sang "IT Is WELL WITH MY SOUL" The crowd around us laughed and yelled at one deacon (who had been promised by Micah that he would be allowed to speak) SIT DOWN ! and then proceeded to make loud garbled sounds so that neither this Grady Jackson nor the other two elderly preachers who were in front of the pulpit asking Micah to "Stop this behavior and brinng this flock together again" Micah et al. videotaped tis whole horrible display of pride and might verses humble and upright mixed with many confused onlookers. They viewed this tape the next week in order to know who to remove from the membership rolls.
This is an example not of Baptist churches not having good methods of government. This is an example of the teachings of Rick Warren being used to the hilt regardless of the flock already pursuing the work of the Lord as He had laid it on their hearts. Also it is an example to us all how the devil can creep into your life right into your face if you aren't wary and unapologetically cause great havoc.
No, the ousted group have not lost our faith. The devil can not touch our souls those are concecrated to GOD through salvation by the blood of his son Jesus Christ. But, satan would like to muss up the bride real good. The issue I raise is why would anyone want to come into a beautiful loving congrgation and sow lies, distrust and pain?
Isn't that what Satan wants? What a better way to attack God's people than through pride and selfishness!
After my husband and I decided to leave a church last year(that we were part of planting), we have been saddenned to see how many more people have been hurt by their church families (as we were) because of the adaptation of Rick Warren and his purpose driven church. Satan can so easily use this to destroy churches because it is not God's plan. It's man's plan. The world has entered the church instead of us going out into the world, as commanded by God.
In our experience, we were lied to repeatedly. We couldn't understand why certain decisions were being made that were contrary to the Word of God. People were told different things, just to appease them. Baptist was to be taken out of the church name so people wouldn't know we were Baptist(although we were staying baptist)...Deceptive! We were leaders in the church and were told that even though we disagreed with things that were going on we had to basically suck it up and act as though nothing was wrong to keep the "unity". So many other red flags......Well, needless to say, we left. Our church was much smaller, as we were still a new church so the amount of people that left didn't make much of an impact. We weren't told to leave in the manner you were, although it was suggested that we leave because we were questioning too much and taking too many stands. We are now "blessed subtractions" as Rick Warren would say.
Now, a bit over a year later, as hard as it has been, a weight has been lifted off of our shoulders and we feel as though we can truly worship God with freedom now! Not under a dictatorship. We still pray constantly for our fellow members that have stayed behind, that their eyes will be opened and that they will realize that they are not getting the truth.
My prayers are with all of those 165+ people that have been forced to leave their church due to a pastor that doesn't understand what a teacher of the word of God is. My heart goes out to you all and we will be praying for you.
God calls us to stand up for Him and His word and tells us that we will be persecuted for doing so.
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Jeff Peterson
Jeff Peterson

August 5th, 2004, 8:38 pm #14

This webpage shows the ungodly act at GARDENDALE BAPTIST CHURCH Corpus Christi, Texas on 7/18/2004. By the time you read this page more members will have followed the ousted Christians.

"Members of Gardendale Baptist Church voted Sunday to expel about 165 members from their congregation because they did not support the leadership of the church's pastor, according to a church spokesman and several ousted members."

http://home.stx.rr.com/gardendalecctx/gardendale.html
One cannot walk in fellowship with God if he refuses to forgive others
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Me
Me

August 6th, 2004, 9:26 pm #15

This webpage shows the ungodly act at GARDENDALE BAPTIST CHURCH Corpus Christi, Texas on 7/18/2004. By the time you read this page more members will have followed the ousted Christians.

"Members of Gardendale Baptist Church voted Sunday to expel about 165 members from their congregation because they did not support the leadership of the church's pastor, according to a church spokesman and several ousted members."

http://home.stx.rr.com/gardendalecctx/gardendale.html
As a member of Gardendale I have been very confused about this situation. I did not attend the meeting which has made it harder for me to make a decison whether or not to stay at Gardendale or leave. My family and I joined the church when Micah Davidson first came to the church, but had been attending for a while before. We liked that it was contemporary as far as the worship but respected the fact that the membership as a whole were more traditional and conservative. There was a strong sense of family at the church. Everybody worked together to keep things running smoothly. When Micah came it seemed things changed, some good some bad. The childrens ministry definately improved, better security, more organized etc. But it seemed like it was becoming more like a well run business. I did not like that alot of the programs such as the parents night out and childcare for different events were dropped. It was not in the budget anymore for the parents to be able to leave their kids for a couple of hours on a friday night to build their relationships, together time. Also the church started to charge the members money to use the nursery for certain events. We were encouraged to join small groups but encouraged not to bring our children to the group so in turn had to pay for babysitting. We just kind of decided not to sweat the small stuff, the church is growing, new people coming, new pastors joining the church. When I got the letter regarding the meeting I first thought I would definately vote to keep the pastor. Since much prayer,reading of different websites, talking with others We have been totally convicted to leave as quick as possible. The thing that I feel that has helped me in this decision is the fact that Micah did not follow scripture in this situation as far as voting people out of the church. He had no scripture to back him up and there is nothing in the bible that supports what he did. If there was an issue that my family did not agree with would I be voted out as well? We are now searching for a new church home, a little more carefully this time.
Me
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Corpus Christi Caller Times reader
Corpus Christi Caller Times reader

August 18th, 2004, 11:04 pm #16

This webpage shows the ungodly act at GARDENDALE BAPTIST CHURCH Corpus Christi, Texas on 7/18/2004. By the time you read this page more members will have followed the ousted Christians.

"Members of Gardendale Baptist Church voted Sunday to expel about 165 members from their congregation because they did not support the leadership of the church's pastor, according to a church spokesman and several ousted members."

http://home.stx.rr.com/gardendalecctx/gardendale.html
I am ashamed that another Baptist Pastor would even defend such an action that Micah Davidson took towards his congregation. This is what Doug Jackson, pastor of Second Baptist Church of Corpus Christi wrote to the local news paper. By the way his church is changing too.
**********************************************************************
Self rule for Baptists
Ann Couser's letter (July 27) regarding the recent actions of Gardendale Baptist Church errs through a misunderstanding of Baptist church structure summed up in her phrase, "the Baptist Church."
Baptist polity holds that each congregation is autonomous. While we may choose to cooperate on various endeavors, there is no such thing as "the" Baptist Church in the same sense as "the" Catholic or Episcopal Church.
For instance, Gardendale can drop "Baptist" from its name, yet remain in fellowship with the Southern Baptist Convention. The practices of other faiths have no bearing on a Baptist church, which believes itself bound only by Scripture. Baptists do not lack provisions for removing members. Matthew 18.15-17 sets a precedent for removal.
Each congregation carries this out in its own way. It is not generically true that "a board of congregants oversees church business." Some Baptist churches have a pastor-led structure; some rely more on the deacon body, committees, or boards of elders. I do not know (nor is it my business) if Gardendale's actions are consistent with its own bylaws, but Gardendale cannot be criticized on the basis of the structure of any other church.



Doug Jackson

email: aslan@2bc.org

(Pastor, Second Baptist Church
of Corpus Christi)

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Kenneth Sublett
Kenneth Sublett

August 19th, 2004, 4:59 am #17

Unlawful "pastors" have a mean way of failing to recognize that Matthew 18.15-17 has a before and after. Jesus fired the doctors of the law because "they take away the key to knowledge." And remember that a Pharisee is, by definition, one who believes that they have a superior spiritual connection to God. This allows him to CHANGE the "polity" of the Bible to fit some secular organization which rarely has any connection with the ekklesia or assembly or 'SCHOOL OF THE BIBLE.' Paul defined the task in Romans 15. If a study group decides to hold joint ownership to property then no single person has the right to STEAL that ownership without violating the law and minimal ethics. It is a sign of the times that such blatant arrogance and violation of the principle that the one who LEADS is the one who SERVES means just the opposite. And that, if you believe the Bible and all of church history, it means WITHOUT PAY in a wage sense. So, "pastors" getting ready to steal your property have NO BIBLICAL authority to exist and in fact VIOLATE the very nature of a "school of the Bible."

The unlawful pastor or resident Pharisee claims superior knowledge and insight and therefore demands the right to ride on the backs of widows and hard working honest people. That is, he claims to be the EYES of the church. Now, if the EYES offend the body shouldn't you excise the OFFENSIVE OFFENDER rather than the OFFENDEES and SUPPORTERS of a man on the dole?
  • Matthew 18:9 And if thine EYE offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.
It might be that the ASSEMBLY or School of the Bible can do without an EYE if it hath a heart or an ear to hear when the lambs are distressed (music and performance preaching, by definition, distress).
  • Matthew 18: 10 Take heed that ye DESPISE not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.

    Despise is the Greek:

    Kataphroneo (g2706) kat-af-ron-eh'-o; from 2596 and 5426; to think against, i.e. disesteem: - despise.

    No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye CANNOT serve God and mammon. Mt.6:24

    But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities. 2Pe.2:10
"Seeing godliness as a means of financial gain" does not mean that you can see godliness as a means of financial gain IF you have the right motive. Paul spoke of wolves seeing the assembly of Christ as OCCUPATION. The Bible and 2,000 years of church history and minimal common sense SPITS them out.

http://www.piney.com/ChMinistry.html

Now, brethren and sistern pastor-persons, if you MEAN what you SAY then the members are SAVED. Calvinistic Baptists means because God SAVED you before there WAS a before. So they CANNOT be lost and members in good standing. Now, this EXCOMMUNICATION passage lays down an absolute LAW for those who would KNOW only Christ and Him crucified:
  • Matthew 18: 11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.
The PATTERN of Jesus as a Shepherd and the pattern of the elders as the ONLY pastor-teachers God authorized means that he GOES OUT. You just cannot have a shepherd without a flock congregating at Dunkin Donuts with the other IDOL Shepherd (Isaiah's term). As an evangelist he gets some rights by virtue of seeking and finding his own flock. If he inherits and takes over an existing flock the Bible calls him a HIRELING. What is a hireling? Does that mean one with a bad mental attitude? Of course not: it means one who demands a WAGE for becoming the dominant pastor. The flock has been so deprived of the WORD by virtue of the singing, music and "preaching" that it CANNOT discern when a robber is in their own roost.

http://www.piney.com/Amos-Five.html
  • Matthew 18: 12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not LEAVE the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?
Now, this MAN has a hundred sheep: he did not steal them. He collected them so he knows them and they know him. They follow the shepherd because the shepherd is trustworthy. If one of the lambs begins to question why the WORK PRODUCT of the sheep is being used to support the SHEPHERD, only a false shepherd will chase him or her away and shout Baaad Sheep!

Heavens help us: of course, a minimal Christian shepherd is not going to use mind control to get most of the flock to CHASE AWAY a large part of the flock. Whatever the POLITY of a church one would have to see "taking names" as NOT being covered by grace.

When the Master comes for an account will He not despise that shepherd who fleeced the sheep and "craunched" their bones?

A faithful shepherd, you will note, does not HAVE the 99 to feed and support him so that he can feed them on Bible-starved sillyisms. By definition a MINISTER works to the point of travail (Paul) so that he can have to give to the poor (Timothy) who was NOT a located missionary.

Oh, Oh, I see: the lambs did their "baa, baah" at the shepherd and he just cannot tolerate sassy lambs who "question God's anointed." Better to spiritually drive away and kill some so that the contributing masses do not think THEY can get away with demanding "an answer for the lack of faith which lies in him."
  • Matthew 18: 13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray.
Waaal-uh No, Lord-uh! I might wanna do something NORMAL sheep will not tolerate so if I have one with eyes and ears and spirit THEY might question my double-entry in and out of the sheep fold. So ONE smelly lamb gonna stink up my reclining evangelists chair. (You know, "located traveling salesman").
  • Matthew 18: 14 Even so it is NOT the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.
Now, all of "church" is a ONE ANOTHER activity. The SPEAKING which means preaching is one to another using the Biblical Psalms. The elder is ONE of the ANOTHER. Therefore, the CONTEXT is about the church which is LIKE a flock of sheep. They look out for one another. The LAMBS cannot offend an honest shepherd but one another. In the denominational scheme, the PASTOR is pastor and the rest are brethren. A brother is ADELPHOS which means like a WOMB PARTNER.
  • But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. Mt.23:8

    And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. Mt. 23:9

    Neither be ye called masters (guide, teacher): for one is your Master, even Christ. Mt. 23:10

    But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. Mt. 23:11
If the brother does something to hurt us we tell the brother, "You have offended me and the SIN is so grievous that your soul is in danger." Therefore, this is within the context that THERE IS NO MASTER PASTOR PHARISEE THINGY who is the only one who can be OFFENDED:
  • Matthew 18: 15 Moreover if thy BROTHER shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
The word trespass means SIN. Something really EVIL. May be something like one aspiring to be a SERVANT by being a MASTER. Now, that would destroy the very foundation of Christianity
  • Matthew 18: 16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more (brothers), that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

    Matthew 18: 17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a PUBLICAN.
A PUBLICAN is a TAX HARVESTER. Pastors who lie about THE LAW OF GIVING or repudiate Christ by teaching the TITHE are TAX HARVESTERS. They are publicans. The hireling shepherd is a Publican. Furthermore by its very definition he is a sectarian Hypocrite. If he is a rhetorician, sOPHISts (serpent), singer, musician or craftsman (techne, stage director and house builder) then he is worse than a TAX HARVESTER because the ancient pagan worship leader financed the entire WORSHIP SERVICE. A hypocrite is a THEATRICAL PERFORMER and what we laughingly call "worship" has no Christian component but is a theatrical performance. And theatrical performers have always been classified with publicans and worse.

It is pretty hard to believe that this gives any right to a dominant pastor who is, by definition both a Pharisee and a hireling, being "SINNED AGAINST" because people can't yet grasp why the HIRELING has turned into a WOLF or MASTER who chases away sheep from the sheepfold they have BOUGHT.

This is GENERIC STUFF: it applies to the overwhelming majority of religionists in ALL groups. It has been prophesied to happen exactly the way it is happening. But, sometimes God has to hit us in the head with a dominant pastor and church as a TAX HARVESTING MACHINE to explain the meaning of HEAVY LADEN and REST. Whatever you decide to include in the church which has devolved over the last decade, Jesus died to shut them down so that you can come aside and REST. That word in the Greek language is almost totally dedicated to stopping IT and forcing THEM to carry their share of the LOAD.

Pauô, includes to: bring to an end, stop or silence by death, take one's rest, cease, have done, of one singing or speaking.

Pauo means stop the polemos or battle, fight, war: stop levying war against another, anaireisthai or airô egeirein, kathistanai, epagein to begin a war;

Pauo means: STOP the: melôid-ia , hê, singing, chanting,

Pauo means: Stop the pain of: aoidê [aeidô]

Pauo means: Stop the Thamyris, a Thracian aoidê

Pauo means: Stop worshipping the MUSES

Pauo means: Stop the charismatic music which is with clanging cymbals:

Pauo means: Stop the: Panos orgai panic fears (i. e. terrors sent by Pan), Eur.:--but, orgê tinos anger against a person or at a thing, hierôn orgas wrath at or because of the rites.

Pauo means: Stop the Dancing they tried to force on Jesus

Pauo means: Stop the Sorcery.

The Pauo Jesus died to give us means: To Take Thy Rest:

Klisia a place for lying down, henceI. a hut, cot, cabin, such as besiegers lived in during long sieges, Il.:--that they were not tents, but wooden huts, appears from Il. 24.448 sq.; and when an army broke up, it burnt them on the spot, Od. 8.501
  • Ii. a couch or easy chair, Od., Pind.
    2. a bed, nuptial bed, Eur.
    Iii. a company of people sitting at meals, NTest.
    Iv. a reclining or lying, Plut.
    Paue stop! have done! be quiet!
http://www.piney.com/Heresy.Music.html

It's all a big SCAM. Don't feel ANY guilt if you say NO and quit spending your money on what is not food. Obeying Jesus and keeping YOUR MONEY in YOUR HAND until you have occasion to put it into the hand of the DESTITUTE will not make you feel guilty by the weekly scolding and thievery. Find a small church and turn it into a school of the Bible and then everyone can meet together as Christ intended. I come down hard on ANY thing called MUSIC as worship. It simply is not a Biblical word or concept. It is increasingly used by evil "pastors" because it DISABLES your rational (spiritual) nature so that you don't know that the termites have cleaned out your furniture until you sit down on empty space.

Ken Sublett
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elgin
elgin

August 20th, 2004, 6:23 am #18

As long time readers of this site will know, I have much more often than not found myself in disagreement with Ken and Donnie and those of their persuasion. However, this letter from the "pastor" is unbelievable. I have never seen anything so arrogant or prideful.

This draws a clear distinction between the biblical use of the term "pastor" which is always a plurality of men who lead the church and the Baptist term of "pastor" which is a single man who has been appointed to lead the church.

How can a man who claims to be a believer and undertakes the role of leading the flock act in such a bold (and ungodly) manner which will surely lead to many of those 160 souls loosing their faith?

Tom
In the case of the pastor getting rid of the 165 members in that baptist church they was never saved and he might have done them more of favor than harm because now maybe they will see that what man build, man has absolute authority to do what he will.
I hope that they all will come into the knowledge of the truth, denominationalism is a sin and the only truth is the word of God.
To you that has been kicked out, take it as a blessing and become a member of the Lords church
To you that are still in get out before it's everlasting to late
The Church of Church
You can Have salvation if you Choose it.
God Bless
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Mark
Mark

October 4th, 2004, 4:32 am #19

This webpage shows the ungodly act at GARDENDALE BAPTIST CHURCH Corpus Christi, Texas on 7/18/2004. By the time you read this page more members will have followed the ousted Christians.

"Members of Gardendale Baptist Church voted Sunday to expel about 165 members from their congregation because they did not support the leadership of the church's pastor, according to a church spokesman and several ousted members."

http://home.stx.rr.com/gardendalecctx/gardendale.html
The link, http://home.stx.rr.com/gardendalecctx/gardendale.html,
I assumed would link to an article about what happened at Gardendale Baptist Church, but instead links directly to their main website. Is this a mistake? I would rather read the article first.
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Brant Stubblefield
Brant Stubblefield

December 20th, 2004, 4:09 am #20

I think people need to get their stories straight before they start talking. Our Pastor is a wonderful man and all of the votes that were for him proves this.
amber
This man is a BAPTIST "pastor", and he needs to read 1 Timothy 3, Phil 1:1, Titus 1, and all the other passages about the duties and qualifications of elders/pastors/shepards,etc. Brethren, and our baptist friends, if you have or endorse the "one man pastor system, you commit sin !!! Because, such is without proper Biblical AUTHORITY!!! 1 Peter 4:11, Col 3:17, etc

LET THE BIBLE SPEAK, and the baptists study some more!!

Love, B. Stubblefield
Lindsay, Ok
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