Fourth Ave Church of Christ, Franklin, TN

David K.
David K.

August 1st, 2003, 3:49 pm #31

The Narrow door is faith in the finished atonement through Jesus on the cross.
It is His righteousness that saves.

The Wide Way is any path other than through HIS finished work on the cross.

Let us not confuse this with anything else.

There is a reason for the hymn. "My hope is built on nothing less than Jesus blood and righteousness."
" I dare not trust the sweetest frame but wholy lean on Jesus name".
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Anonymous
Anonymous

August 1st, 2003, 5:17 pm #32

I've read a couple of places on this site about removing the Church of Christ name from signs and have this question:

If CofCs are truly autonomous, why should one that uses "liberal" practices have to remove the name?
Good question Phil. The truth is that they are not independent. Just an unwritten set of rules.
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Kenneth Sublett
Kenneth Sublett

August 1st, 2003, 10:52 pm #33

The Narrow door is faith in the finished atonement through Jesus on the cross.
It is His righteousness that saves.

The Wide Way is any path other than through HIS finished work on the cross.

Let us not confuse this with anything else.

There is a reason for the hymn. "My hope is built on nothing less than Jesus blood and righteousness."
" I dare not trust the sweetest frame but wholy lean on Jesus name".
I can buy that!

So, here is what we do. We fire the SECT of HYPOCRITES who were "rhetoricians, sOPHISts (snakes in Revelation), singers and musicians." After all, in the Greek world their JOB DESCRIPTION was to function as sorcerers or soothsayers or "technes" (Exegetes, hermeneuts) and you just know what is gonna happen to those who MOCKED AT THE FOOT OF THE OLD RUGGED CROSS trying to MINIMIZE Jesus Christ and the CROSS.

And, hay, the Greek world also knew them as PARASITES. The parasites were like the Warrior musicians assigned by the KING and COMMANDERS to serve (hard bondage) the priest at the ALTAR and SLAUGHTER PEN where the TYPES of Jesus were sacrificed. Jesus took pains to inspire the text which shows the residual MINSTRELS were cast on the Dung Heap where the CARCASES of the TYPES of Jesus were cast. In the Greek temples they were know as PARASITES because they got a SHARE OF THE FOOD for ministering to the priests. Know what? The place of the SKULL was probably foul smelling from blood and guts.

Don't cry, blasphemy. Every Bible reader knows that the temple was LIKE THE NATIONS because they demanded a KING LIKE THE NATIONS and God knew that it was so that they could WORSHIP LIKE THE NATION and be destroyed.

So, if we are gonna gather at the CROSS then we need to tear down the building or sell it for a honkey tonk because Paul said that the ONLY place we would find Jesus was OUTSIDE THE CAMP which meant OUTSIDE THE TEMPLE. Neither God nor the Jewish congregation ever ENTERED INTO THE TEMPLE.

We have already fired the staff. Get rid of the elders because their authority is in a TIGHT LITTLE CIRCLE: "To teach that which has been taught and rebuke those who oppose it."

Now, we are left with only the CROSS but where oh where is that JESUS you are talking about? Didn't HE say that he would be in the midst of TWO OR THREE? Uh. Does not mean TWO OR THREE THOUSAND? Don't know but 2 or three or a good class size of about 20 is a good place to start. But, where is Jesus?? Well, Jesus said MY WORDS are SPIRIT and LIFE and Paul limited the SINGING and melody to the heart. Huh? How else can JESUS teach us the Spirit Mind of Christ when we are in the singy clappy mood.

Now to WORSHIP. Did you know that the worship word Paul defined means to fall on your face like a dog licking the masters boots. Just try to do that hold hold your angelic harps!

However, Jesus defined worship as IN THE SPIRIT which is the PLACE of the human mind and not INSPIRITED OR ENRAPTURED. And, as a matter of GREAT GRACE we don't have to do the falling exercises any more. Paul's UNIQUE worship word was to GIVE HEED to Christ by GIVING HEED TO HIS Words. Now, we can obey Paul to Timothy and "Give attendance to the public READING of the Word." Then, like Jesus, we can explain the doctrinal content and admonish one another. Men like Luther, Calvin and the Campbells defined CHURCH as "the school of the Bible" or of Christ.

Now the CROSS is gonna be hard to find so what do we do? Well, we pick up our only VERY LIGHT CROSS and follow Jesus so that we don't price fix or put the thumb on the meat scales or STEAL the church houses of widows. Or as the Greeks knew: don't pay for parasites because they CONTRIBUTE NOTHING but the destruction of faith and morality and SPIRITUAL religion.

EVERYONE defined as righteous under the LAW were personally right toward God and practiced justice to their fellow man.

Know what? That 30,000 or 40,000 bucks stolen form the hard working "worshipers" can then be put into the hands of Jesus Christ by using it to give Him a cup of cold water of the Word--without FURTHER EXPOUNDING which is PRIVATELY INTERPRETING the Words of Christ which Peter outlawed and which one cannot do--for a price--without spitting in the face of Jesus. Furthermore, the FREE BY GRACE believers will not have to sweat all week knowing that they will never be able to educate their children! And that might make them WORSE THAN INFIDELS. And guess who BURNS for it.

If YOU ever meet Jesus and you are a singy clappy type YOU are not going to notice. SHE will be an old widow who has always gone to 4th and suddenly is like one who finds her HOUSE stolen and friends chased away by the MOST WICKED of people.

Oh Well, she probably deserves it. She was BLIND enough to give up her children's heritage when the ELDERS claimed that YOU MUST GIVE IT TO THE LOUURRDEee. One of the LESSONS learned the hard way is that many of you have learned that only thieves try to SHAME you into TITHING. And only very ignorant men extort (in Paul's words) by what they have INVENTED as the "Law of Giving." Isn't that legalism? Didn't Jesus Himself pay the TEMPLE tax. Did He ever ask for a CONTRIBUTION? No because there is NOTHING CHRISTIAN which demands a FEE or a TAX but the help of the PROSPEROUS if they are DESTITUTE. If you drop "something in the pot, boy" YOU fail to grasp the meaning of the CROSS.

So. You can give all of your FORTUNE to the Lord but if you give it to the elders for buildings and grounds I can almost guarantee that in the most conservative church you will not know the AGENDA until they get all of your money.

YOU DON'T OWE THE INSTITUTION ONE RED PENNY. So, Come out of LEGALISM into GRACE as the only way to STARVE OUT the Parasites.

Looking forward to JUST JESUS AND ME at the foot of the old Poplar tree.

Remember now, "JUST JESUS" doesn't allow you to slip in the soothsayers and parasites. And for goodness sake if YOU are a PARASITE pretending to be a SORCERER with the power to BRING THE WORSHIPERS INTO THE PRESENCE OF GOD, I don't believe it to be judging to say that Jesus is going to treat you just like a TICK or other blood sucker.

Ken Sublett.
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gw
gw

August 2nd, 2003, 12:55 pm #34

To Chris and the other liberals at 4th Ave: you have been brainwashed. I hope you will recognize this false teaching before it's too late. I'm amazed at the number of "elders" who cave in to this type of practice.

I'm not questioning your sincerity or that of the elders in your DESIRE to save souls for Christ. I question your TACTICS in how you do it. Change agents get into your heart just as the devil plants sin. Congregations that digress into these practices usually do so because it simply makes them feel good. They know they will grow and replace lost members because there are enough people "looking for religion" who find more modern, entertaining elements of worship to be enticing. Just look at how our entertainment industry has digressed to "anything goes". This is where you and others of your mindset are taking the church.....it's disgusting. Everything comes back to marketing....whether it's sales or the church. If you feel it's necessary to make changes to the New Testament, then you will build an association of those who do not totally adhere to those teachings. And unfortunately, that's a majority of the population.

And don't pick on this site or forum...there are tons of other web resources bemoaning youth ministers, worship leaders, and other heirarchy that very closely mimic denominations. It's all there if you choose to read it; I hope you will.

If you choose to associate with these liberal worship practices, then please remove "Church of Christ" from your building. Your worship service will be no more honorable to New Testament teaching than mass conducted by the Pope.
It was announced last Sunday that Ken Young, of Hallal, is coming to be worship leader at Fourth Avenue Church of Christ on Oct. 1. While not an unexpected announcement, it is of concern to many of us for several reasons; first, reportedly, he will be paid over $90,000. second, we are aware that he will gradually (and subtly) bring about changes in the services that many of us fear. We need a good, faith-based,experienced pulpit minister to bring in the unchurched. Many members are leaving to go with other nearby congregations; the weekly collections have been $4000 or more under budget recently. Please pray for our church and respond with any helpful suggestions of actions we can take or people we can confer with.
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Kenneth Sublett
Kenneth Sublett

August 2nd, 2003, 8:27 pm #35

You, too, have been "DYE STAMPED" or MARKED for the deliberate sowing of discord. We noted that the SURVEYS are not surveys but they are ARROGANT lying statements that "we have INFILTRATED and we are going to DIVERT you into the Luciferian Worship." And YOU are gonna pay LUCIFER (Lucyfer) because WE GOT THE POWER and YOU gonna obey OUR LAW OF GIVING. Wots more, You gonna TITHE or you gonna be EXCLUDED from the inner circle which corresponds to the TEMPLE TOWER of the Towers of Babylon. You PLAY and SING your way up the tower, you turn in your collection at the top and we gonna let you see the gods ascending and descending. And our flute girls or prostitutes are the NEW STYLE WORSHIP.

She/he was the harp playing PROSTITUTE and the serpent of NACHASH or musical enchanter in the garden of Eden. She is CIRCE of "church" opposed to the synagogue of Christ. She plays music and administers drugs or "magical encantantments" or enchantments.

SHE resides in "rhetoricians, Sophists, singers, musicians, buffoons (preacher jokes) and in the Greek world they were the craftsmen or TECHNES who, along with the musicians (muses) and instrumentalists worked as sorcerers or soothsayers (See Rev 18). These ALL belonged to the SECT of the Hypocrites which included actors and flute- girls who were prostitutes. They are also defined by similar words meaning PARASITES.

It was predictable that Ken would recruit a MASTER MUSICIAN to make the church effeminate and theatrical.

HERE'S THE ADVICE OF JESUS WHO PAID THE PRICE AND PAUL WHO OUTLAWED ALL OF THESE PARASITES. YOU are the BODY and YOU select ONLY the elders as the ONLY pastor teachers along with the Deacons. The elders are LEADERS only when they "teach that which has been taught and refute those who oppose it." The early BISHOPS were the ones who went out and established churches with Paule defining WAGE SEEKERS as robbers. The MINISTERS work hard to SUPPORT THE WEAK and not to have the weak support them.

You guys share the blame because you LAID UP YOUR TREASURES in houses and retirement plans for the STAFF INFECTION. You thereby gave permission for a professional PILE ON by those who do nothing but SPREAD AN EVIL VIRUS.

HERE IS HOW YOU VOTE AND YOU MUST SPREAD THE WORD:
The Co-Witness of Other Versions:

NIV: On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with his income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made. 1 Corinthians 16:2NIV

NAS: On the first day of every week let each one of you put aside and save, as he may prosper, that no collections be made when I come. 1 Corinthians 16:2NAS

NKJV: On the first day of the week let each one of you lay something aside, storing up as he may prosper, that there be no collections when I come. 1 Corinthians16:2

This says: You put aside, You Save. In practice only those who PROSPERED were asked to give to the DESTITUTE. The "proportional giving" is a SCAM.

RSV: On the first day of every week, each of you is to put something aside and store it up, as he may prosper, so that contributions need not be made when I come. 1 Corinthians 16:2

LIV: On every Lord's Day each of you should put aside something from what you have earned during the week, and use it for this offering. The amount depends on how much the Lord has helped you earn. Don't wait until I get there and then try to collect it all at once. 1 Corinthians 16:2

Modern Speech: On the first day of every week let each of you put on one side and store up at his home whatever gain has been granted him; so that whenever I come, there may be no collections going on. (The Modern Speech New Testament, Richard Francis Weymouth).

Authentic Version: The day after the Sabbath let each of you put by savings as he has prospered, so that collections do not have to be made when I come. (The Authentic Version, Hugh J. Schonfield).

NEV: Every Sunday each of you is to put aside and keep by him a sum in proportion to his gains, so that there may be no collecting when I come. (New English Bible New Testament).

Plain English: On the first day of the week let each of you put aside and save something from his earnings; so that the money has not all to be collected when I come. (The New Testament in Plain English, Charles Kingsley Williams).

Neander: But Paul, if we examine his language closely, says no more than this: that every one should lay by in his own house on the first day of the week, whatever he was able to save.

.....This certainly might mean, that every one should bring with him the sum he had saved to the meeting of the church, that thus the individual contributions might be collected together, and be ready for Paul as soon as he came.

.....But this would be making a gratuitous supposition, not at all required by the connexion of the passage.

.....We may fairly understand the whole passage to mean, that every one on the first day of the week should lay aside what he could spare, so that when Paul came, every one might be prepared with the total of the sum laid by, and then by pulling the sums together, the collection of the whole church would be at once made." Dr. Augustus Neander, in his "History of the Training and Planting of the Christian Church,"

The FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK was the FIRST DAY OF WORK for most. Out of his FIRST PAY DAY he should store up a sum.

Paul did not hint that they lay by in store on the SECOND DAY of the week. Thus, what he gave was from his first pay check. 10% of his whole weeks pay would be outrageous extortion.

I BELIEVE THAT THE DIRECT COMMAND IS THAT YOU QUIT VIOLATING THE GRACE OF JESUS AND THE COMMANDS OF PAUL AND THE TESTIMONY OF MOST VERSIONS.

JUST SAY NOT. Your hard earned money is being BLEED off from you. The LUCIFER PRINCIPLE meant that the harp- playing prostitute used musical seduction to STEAL the property BACK from you after you had BOUGHT the WHORE'S cedar.

See a historical account of how it is done:

http://www.piney.com/DocuWenAmun.html

Just quit beating yourself in the head: these legalists will wax worse and worse until their goal is reached of being part of the JESUS TEAM who will reward their friends and kill their enemies (true goal).

I want you to e-mail me with your PLEDGE that you will not give ONE MORE PENNY to these scams and lay it by yourself to help those in need and support your family. Why should a WORSHIP LEADER bleed of $90 thousand a year when you probably have dozens of good song leaders. They are heading deeply into PAGAN RELIGON and it is prophesied.

You should also report the older and shrinking attendance numbers and the contribution. I would also hold my hand ove my mouth when the TEACHING process is turned into a perverted form of erotic praise singing as one of the oldest, pagan superstitions.

REJOICE AND BE GLAD: IT IS PROPHESIED: IT IS IN THE BOOK. AND YOU HAVE LIVED TO SEE IT AND FIND OUT WHAT YOU WOULD HAVE DONE WHEN THEY WERE MOCKING JESUS.

Ken.
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Steve
Steve

August 6th, 2003, 2:35 pm #36

It was announced last Sunday that Ken Young, of Hallal, is coming to be worship leader at Fourth Avenue Church of Christ on Oct. 1. While not an unexpected announcement, it is of concern to many of us for several reasons; first, reportedly, he will be paid over $90,000. second, we are aware that he will gradually (and subtly) bring about changes in the services that many of us fear. We need a good, faith-based,experienced pulpit minister to bring in the unchurched. Many members are leaving to go with other nearby congregations; the weekly collections have been $4000 or more under budget recently. Please pray for our church and respond with any helpful suggestions of actions we can take or people we can confer with.
GW

If this Ken Young guy has already been hired it sounds to me like pretty strong commitments have already been made. As things are, how do you see things playing out 6-12 months from now? If there was an impact made to alter the present course, where would you see things in the same time frame?

I'm certainly no expert, but I have been through this twice in seven years, and have been praying for fourth for some time now.

Please, answer me via email. I'll be more than happy to share what I've learned and any resources that I may have.

Steve

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Anonymous
Anonymous

August 10th, 2003, 9:26 pm #37

need all the help we can get.appreciate hearing from you,with names web sites.ect.
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Anonymous
Anonymous

August 22nd, 2003, 5:19 pm #38

This website is and continues to be a tool of satan.
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Kenneth Sublett
Kenneth Sublett

August 23rd, 2003, 12:43 am #39

As personified in the king of Tyre who was a "queen" Lucifer came into the garden with wind, string and percussion instruments. He was more "she" and wanted to be remembered as a male. But he/she in Tyre is defined a the singing and harp-playing PROSTITUTE. All music in a religious sense was of prostitutes or Sodomites.

No, the LEVITICAL sounders (not musicians) never got past the type of the sacrifice of Christ and the washing in the Laver. They could never get into the Holy Place as a TYPE of the body or church of Christ which COULD NOT BE contaminated by singers or musicians. They were worthy of death if they entered.

-- "With the wine-drinking (which is the literal meaning of the Hebrew for feasting), went music and dancing." (Heaton, E. W., Everyday Life in Old Testament times, Scribners, p. 93)

---- "Worship was form more than substance; consequently, conduct in the marketplace was totally unaffected by worship in the holy place. Amos spoke from the conviction that social justice is an integral part of the Mosaic covenant, which regulates relations not only between God and people, but also among people." (King, p. 44).

---- "In pagan traditions, musical instruments are invented by gods or demi-gods, such as titans. In the Bible, credit is assigned to antediluvian patriarchs, for example, the descendants of Cain in Genesis 4:21. There is no other biblical tradition about the invention of musical instruments." (Freedman, David Noel, Bible Review, Summer 1985, p. 51).

When Jubal HANDLED instruments the word means WITHOUT AUTHORITY.

In the Greek world "rhetoricians, sOPHISts, singers and musicians were PARASITES.

Jesus cast the singers and minstrels LIKE DUNG.

Ken Sublett


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Lance Perry
Lance Perry

October 15th, 2003, 1:24 am #40

With all due respect to the people who maintain this site, if you are posting or reading messages on this website, I ask you for the scriptural basis for the venting of these things in this venue. Are you not supposed to be sitting down in love and prayer with your brothers and sisters with whom you have a difference? If you are a member at Fourth Avenue, stop believing the lies and misinformation that is being spewed forth from this site. There is no community church ulterior motive. There is no wish for anyone to leave.
How would people who do not even attend Fourth Avenue even know the congregation? If you are a member of the congregation, then how is the airing of differences on this site bringing unsaved people to the strong knowledge and saving grace of God?
There is a stong desire to use tools that we have been given to spread the news of Jesus Christ. I plead with you to stop ego and selfishness and pride from standing in the way of our being able to sit down and talk. This is not the forum. This is not the place. I have very little hope that this message will get through to you, because it will probably be edited or erased. I have signed my name to this posting so you will know who I am. I will not hide and try to be anonymous. I will stand up for Truth. Please get away from this site. Its mission has nothing to do with the spreading of the good news of Jesus Christ. It has everything to do with people sitting in judgement of others.
I want the people at Fourth Ave to know that there are hundreds if not thousands of faithful Christians praying for their church family. Praise the Lord that people have the courage to follow God and not tradition. The men and women who fought for the restoration of NT Christianity would be very proud! They would also be very disappointed with this website and the people who are trying to maintain traditions over the advancement of the gospel into the lives of hurting and lost souls.
I just came in from a Bible study with one such person. Please pray that he will come to know Jesus. Someone sent me a note about this website and so I came to it to see if what I heard was true. Sadly, it is. Please, drop your stones and leave this group of poor imperfect churches alone!
It is the realization that we are imperfect and in need of divine direction that will bring blessings. It is that realization, I'm convinced, that is driving the work at Fourth Ave., and it is that realization that will shut down this website and replace your thrones with towels!
God forgive us all!!
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