First Colony Church: notes on Instrumental Music in 1 Corinthians 14

Josh
Josh

May 30th, 2008, 11:24 pm #41

Thank you for your note, Donnie.

One of the elders spoke to the deacons this week and said the survey results wi be released soon. Many members had questions, and the elders want to first answer every question as part of the survey results. I have been persoally called by one of the elders about my questions, and I have sat down and visited with another for about two hours.

My point to this forum is that Ken does not know what he is talking about when he attacks fellow believers whome he does not know and, by all indication, has no intention to get to know. Christ said we can know a person's charcter by their fruit. I have personally seen the fruit of the Holy Spirit in these elders, in Ronnie, and in this Church. I have persobally seen God working through Ronnie, the elders, and many of the members at First Colony to turn hearts from serving self to serving Jesus and being baptised into His name. Ken has never taken the time to. He makes one misleading statement after another. I have no choice but to conclude that he is either lying, or he doesn't care to find out the truth.

I will share what I can when it is available.
Let me encourage all of my FCCC family members to NOT send or post any more in-house information to this site (letters, e-mails, surveys, etc.) for 3 reasons:

1. It’s obvious that Ken and those who have an issue with our elders’ decision will not accept anything you have to say.

2. Rather, they will use what you pass along from our leaders to continue maligning the character of our Elders and gossiping about our church family.

3. Those letters are addressed to FCCC church members. If Ken and others wish to receive the information, then they are welcome place membership at FCCC. If they are (for whatever reason) unwilling to be a part of this body, then, frankly, they should not have a say in our church family’s business.

Some will suggest that this proves our church has something to hide. Not at all. Rather, it is clear that we will not be able to agree on this issue. While I wish we could agree to disagree, it is clear that continuing to debate or provide more FCCC in-house information will only allow mean-spirited individuals an excuse to continue their unfounded attacks on our church family.

TO FC MEMBERS & FAMILY MEMBERS: If you are an FC member or related an FC member and have questions or concerns, then please feel free to contact the church and they will be happy to talk with you or have an elder contact you personally. But please do not participate in maligning the church family of which you or one of your family members is a part. Again, the church's goal isn't to hide things, but to discuss them in a God-honoring fashion. Talk to the church, not about the church.

ONE LAST THING: Ken, while I look forward to giving you a hug in heaven, let me ask you a question. Why are you wasting your time with people like us who you obviously view as lost (and won’t change their position) instead of dedicating that energy to reaching out to those in YOUR community who don’t know Jesus and you can bless? You are obviously passionate about the Lord. Why not use that passion constructively?

I look forward to seeing you all at FCCC this Sunday morning as we worship the risen savior, Jesus Christ!

God Bless,

Josh
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Anonymous
Anonymous

June 1st, 2008, 6:41 pm #42

<font color=indigo size=3 face=times new roman>This is copied from the response to the initial post of this thread:
  • <font size=4>SUBJECT: Text of email sent to FCCC members <FONT SIZE=2>[April 27 2008, 8:37 PM]</font></font>

    <font color=black size=3 face=times new roman>This email was sent to the FCCC members mailing list on 4/25/08:
    • This Sunday I Start A Two Week Series Called “Music Matters” And We Will Ask For Your Feedback Next Sunday, May 4… I plan to talk very openly about our musical heritage in the churches of Christ (much of which is so very positive). We’ll bathe this discussion in the light of scripture and ask for your prayers. Last summer & fall, all the elders began to study, reflect, discuss and pray about asking the church to consider offering well-done, tasteful, live instrumentation in one of our worship services and if so, when should that service be offered. By “well-done” I mean a service where the instrumentation complements rather than overwhelms and where participatory singing remains a high value.

      Bottom line: all the elders felt fine about allowing a service with live instrumentation (but only if well-done and only if a strong exclusively acappella presence continues in other services) and we’ve even talked about some possible specifics with one another and our deacons. However, the reality is we are not married to anything specific regarding dates and times. We have certainly given this some thought but nothing is set in stone. We are not even married to offering an instrumental service. But we are married to a clear and open process where we ask the entire church to consider the possibility of live instrumentation in one of the worship services of our church family. We ask you to consider this through a process of evaluating scripture, praying for God’s leading, considering one another, and providing feedback.

      Specifically, on Sunday May 4 we will ask you to fill out a brief survey telling us your perspectives regarding “church music”. That survey will also be available on-line and here’s what it will do: it will help us know more accurately where we are as a church family and what you think. When it comes to even considering any kind of transition in our church culture, our elders will move slowly & gently and will provide time for study, evaluation, prayer and dialog. I’m looking forward to presenting these two messages and I hope you’ll be encouraged.
    </font>_________________________
Ray, you said, “Come down to First Colony Church of Christ. Sit down and talk with one of the elders. Get to know the body of Christ that meets at First Colony Church of Christ.”

Due to distance, perhaps, and travel expenses involved in such a visit, I find this to be an alternative, i.e., a review of the email that was sent to our brothers and sisters in Christ at First Colony. I say “brethren” because, in many cases of attempts to transition or change not only certain activities and practices but also beliefs and teachings of the church at a particular location, the “brethren” are NOT at fault. More often than not, members leave as a result of changes because of questionable decisions on the part of the leadership.

I’m interested in the details and have many questions related to the text of the email. But before we go any further, I would like for you to take time to update us or educate us as to what has happened since the time that the message was sent to the members. It’s been a few weeks since, and I feel that you now have some valuable information regarding the results of the “brief survey.” It would be of tremendous help, if you could provide the contents of the brief survey.

Thanks!

Donnie</font>
Dear Member,

The elders appreciate our congregation’s response to the recent survey regarding the instrumental service your church leadership is exploring. As we mentioned earlier, this survey was not a “vote” but a simple means designed to provide some feedback. We would like to update you with the results of the survey which are as follows.


There were 752 responses to this group of questions:

1. My Preference is instrumental and I would attend the instrumental ervice-9.2%
2. I enjoy both a cappella and instrumental and would attend either.-53.6%
3. My preference is a cappella but I can allow an instrumental option for others.-28.4%
4. My choice is a cappella and I do not believe that an instrumental option should be allowed-8.8%

Not everyone indicated a time or start date preference, but of those 658 respondents who indicated a time preference, the survey reflected that if we were to have an instrumental service, 57.4% indicated that the IM service should be the 11:00 service. Also, of the 568 respondents that indicated a start date, 67.0% indicated the IM service should begin in the fall of 2008.

Your elders will now begin a period of prayer and contemplation, and we call upon you to also pray for the elders in making the best decision for our church family. We anticipate communicating more with you regarding this topic by late summer.

If you have not had a chance to hear the teachings of Ronnie Norman or Rick Atchley, then we ask you to call the church office and request these presentations. They will be mailed to you at no cost.

We thank you again for your good spirit, prayers and support. May our God continue to bless us as we aim to please Him in all things.

In Christ,

For your elders
Lacy Spears, Chairman
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

June 2nd, 2008, 8:41 am #43

People who think that instruments (speaking in tongues) has any role in the assembly or School of Christ are clearly marked by Paul in 1 Corinthians 14 which begins with speaking in tongues.

The SPEAKING in Corinth (since no one had a gift) was charismatic gibberish which always points to effeminate pagan worship specificialy pointing to the New Wine Skins and Apollo who is Abaddon or Apollyon who has released Locusts of Muses to terrorize the World but to SEPARATE the good from the evil.

Here is a first part:

http://www.piney.com/Howbeit.in.the.Spi ... eries.html

The persona of the musical bandits proves the point.








I just received an email from a concerned friend at church who was telling me that there was going to be a meeting explaining how instrumental music was going to be added. May 4th is the target date. The note said that this information needed to be on the "QT" because the congregation did not know this was about to happen. There will be a meeting later this month and a DVD presentation by Rick Atchley. The minister at First Colony is not as dynamic a speaker as Rick Atchley and needs help to get this message across, because the majority of the congregation has already heard about this instrumental music service. The shepherds have become sheep! I am curious as to why the darkness! Bring this out into the light if this is good and just!. John 3 states that evil is afraid to be found out and that is why they stay in the dark.

The email said that the congregation would be completing a brief survey--I guess to determine a consensus? Is this the Oracle of Dephi technique being used on good people?
<font color=indigo size=3 face=times new roman>Copied Post Submitted Above By:
  • Anonymous
    72.54.195.146

    Message Title: Letter from First Colony about the results of the Survey
    Date: June 1 2008, 1:41 PM

    • <font color=black size=3 face=times new roman>_________________________________

      Dear Member,

      The elders appreciate our congregation’s response to the recent survey regarding the instrumental service your church leadership is exploring. As we mentioned earlier, this survey was not a “vote” but a simple means designed to provide some feedback. We would like to update you with the results of the survey which are as follows.

      There were 752 responses to this group of questions:

      <ol>
    • My Preference is instrumental and I would attend the instrumental service. - 9.2%
    • I enjoy both a cappella and instrumental and would attend either. - 53.6%
    • My preference is a cappella but I can allow an instrumental option for others. - 28.4%
    • My choice is a cappella and I do not believe that an instrumental option should be allowed. - 8.8%
    Not everyone indicated a time or start date preference, but of those 658 respondents who indicated a time preference, the survey reflected that if we were to have an instrumental service, 57.4% indicated that the IM service should be the 11:00 service. Also, of the 568 respondents that indicated a start date, 67.0% indicated the IM service should begin in the fall of 2008.

    Your elders will now begin a period of prayer and contemplation, and we call upon you to also pray for the elders in making the best decision for our church family. We anticipate communicating more with you regarding this topic by late summer.

    If you have not had a chance to hear the teachings of Ronnie Norman or Rick Atchley, then we ask you to call the church office and request these presentations. They will be mailed to you at no cost.

    We thank you again for your good spirit, prayers and support. May our God continue to bless us as we aim to please Him in all things.

    In Christ,

    For your elders
    Lacy Spears, Chairman</font>

    _________________________________
[/list]</font>
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Ken Subletts
Ken Subletts

June 2nd, 2008, 3:36 pm #44

People who think that instruments (speaking in tongues) has any role in the assembly or School of Christ are clearly marked by Paul in 1 Corinthians 14 which begins with speaking in tongues.

The SPEAKING in Corinth (since no one had a gift) was charismatic gibberish which always points to effeminate pagan worship specificialy pointing to the New Wine Skins and Apollo who is Abaddon or Apollyon who has released Locusts of Muses to terrorize the World but to SEPARATE the good from the evil.

Here is a first part:

http://www.piney.com/Howbeit.in.the.Spi ... eries.html

The persona of the musical bandits proves the point.








I just received an email from a concerned friend at church who was telling me that there was going to be a meeting explaining how instrumental music was going to be added. May 4th is the target date. The note said that this information needed to be on the "QT" because the congregation did not know this was about to happen. There will be a meeting later this month and a DVD presentation by Rick Atchley. The minister at First Colony is not as dynamic a speaker as Rick Atchley and needs help to get this message across, because the majority of the congregation has already heard about this instrumental music service. The shepherds have become sheep! I am curious as to why the darkness! Bring this out into the light if this is good and just!. John 3 states that evil is afraid to be found out and that is why they stay in the dark.

The email said that the congregation would be completing a brief survey--I guess to determine a consensus? Is this the Oracle of Dephi technique being used on good people?
You never do the "vote" until you have your conclusion guaranteed. We are not to worry too much, God gives us the right to rejoice when those who shed the blood of the Prophets (by the voice of the Spirit of Christ) as the "kings set over us" are God-sentenced to carry out their destruction to the beat of instrumental noises. The words of their mouth will burn them up.

We don't know who was qualified to vote but it looks like half didn't participate. The young probably gives them the authority to destroy the happiness of their parents while teling them "get over it or get out."

<img src=http://www.piney.com/Marks.Beast.GallaA.gif alt="" width="650">
<img src=http://www.piney.com/Marks.Beast.GallaB.gif alt="" width="650">
<img src=http://www.piney.com/Marks.Beast.GallaC.gif alt="" width="650">

[<font size=2>Page adjusted</font>]
Last edited by Donnie.Cruz on June 3rd, 2008, 2:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ken Sublett
Ken Sublett

June 2nd, 2008, 6:15 pm #45

Lucifer (Zoe) is called the singing and harp playing prostitute. In the Gnostic literature which really begins in Babylon 3,000 years before Moses, ZOE is called the "Beast and female instructing principle."

The Mother Goddess is marked as a beast and SHE marks the "lusted after fruits" with the urge to expose themselves in the holy places where it is claimed that they can call down the gods: in paganism this was always for a "knowing" or sexual encounter with the gods. That is why originally females were happy to be musical "harem of the gods."

Only after David and the kingdom had been abandoned to worship the starry host did males begin to PERFORM religious music: among the Jews the psaltery marked the prostitute, the singing was falsetto and their style was alamoth or like the virgin girls.

In the end time the Mother of Harlots is well defined in the Classics and used by John to WARN that they should not TAKE THE MARK: The book of Enoch and other commentaries prove that when you have been MARKED by associating musical madness with the Holy Spirit you have fallen and you will never get back up. That is why CAIN means a MUSICAL NOTE.

I have collected some ways you can see and hear the MARKS of those trying to "engrave" the music of the "holy whores" upon your spirit:

http://www.piney.com/Mark.Beast.Colony.html

The NACC use the writings of Plutarch to justify imposing instruments (machines) into peacable churches but ALL of thes proof texts are MARKED as perverted males:

Plutarch of Chaeronea held that the God of the Jews was none other than Dionysos. <font color=blue>"First the time and character of the greatest, most sacred holiday of the Jews clearly befit Dionysos. When they celebrate their so-called Fast, at the height of the vintage, they set out tables of all sorts of fruit under tents and huts plaited for the most part of vines and ivy.

They call the first of the two days Tabernacles. A few days later they celebrate another festival, this time identified with Bacchos not through obscure hints but plainly called by his name, a festival that is a sort of 'Procession of Branches' or 'Thyrsos Procession' in which they enter the Temple each carrying a thyrsos.

What they do after entering we do not know, but it is probable that the rite is a Bacchic revelry, for in fact they use little trumpets to invoke their God as do the Argives at their Dionysia.

Others of them advance playing harps; these players are called in their language Levites, either from 'Lysios' or better, from 'Euois.'</font>

Hislop and most scholars agree.

http://www.piney.com/His75.html

<font color=blue>No wonder that it came at last to be firmly believed that the Messiah, on whom the hopes of the world depended, was Himself the "seed of the serpent"! This was manifestly the case in Greece; for the current story there came to be,

that the first Bacchus was brought forth in consequence of a connexion on the part of his mother with the father of the gods, in the form of a "speckled snake." *

* OVID, Metam. So deeply was the idea of "the seed of the serpent" being the great World-king imprinted (marked) on the Pagan mind, that when a man set up to be a god upon earth, it was held essential to establish his title to that character,

that he prove himself to be the "serpent's seed."

Thus, when Alexander the Great claimed divine honours, it is well known that his mother Olympias, declared that he was not sprung from King Philip, her husband, but from Jupiter, in the form of a serpent. In like manner, says the authoress of Rome in the 19th Century, the Roman emperor,

"Augustus, pretended that he was the son of Apollo, and that the god had assumed the form of a serpent for the purpose of giving him birth." </font>

Maybe that is why the NACC appeal to Alexender to prove that psallo means to PLAY AN INSTRUMENT. Well, it does not it just meant to "pluck" and his father was disgusted that Alexander could PLUCK so skillfully knowing the eternal MARK of seducing a young man--a youth minister of the mother goddess.

That is why Jesus, John and Peter called them a RACE OF VIPERS or a CROOKED GENERATION.

<font color=purple>Skolios A. curved, bent (opp. orthos, euthus) muthos
III. skolion, to, intestine, splanchana kai nephron kai skolion

Muthos used with tragoidia, mimesis, poetes etc. Latin fabula II. In partic. (freq. and class.), a fictitious narrative, a tale, story; 1. Most freq., a dramatic poem, drama, play; </font>

Which is OUTLAWED for all TRUTH WRITERS.
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

June 4th, 2008, 6:29 pm #46

People who think that instruments (speaking in tongues) has any role in the assembly or School of Christ are clearly marked by Paul in 1 Corinthians 14 which begins with speaking in tongues.

The SPEAKING in Corinth (since no one had a gift) was charismatic gibberish which always points to effeminate pagan worship specificialy pointing to the New Wine Skins and Apollo who is Abaddon or Apollyon who has released Locusts of Muses to terrorize the World but to SEPARATE the good from the evil.

Here is a first part:

http://www.piney.com/Howbeit.in.the.Spi ... eries.html

The persona of the musical bandits proves the point.








I just received an email from a concerned friend at church who was telling me that there was going to be a meeting explaining how instrumental music was going to be added. May 4th is the target date. The note said that this information needed to be on the "QT" because the congregation did not know this was about to happen. There will be a meeting later this month and a DVD presentation by Rick Atchley. The minister at First Colony is not as dynamic a speaker as Rick Atchley and needs help to get this message across, because the majority of the congregation has already heard about this instrumental music service. The shepherds have become sheep! I am curious as to why the darkness! Bring this out into the light if this is good and just!. John 3 states that evil is afraid to be found out and that is why they stay in the dark.

The email said that the congregation would be completing a brief survey--I guess to determine a consensus? Is this the Oracle of Dephi technique being used on good people?
<font color=indigo size=3 face=times new roman>This is my first time to access the First Colony Church’s website. And I think that the following observations are worth noting:
  • Featured on the home page is the following text: “AN INDEPENDENT, NON-DENOMINATIONAL CHURCH.” While there’s nothing wrong with the text itself and with the word “independent” in the expression, I personally become suspicious in the context that churches of Christ are already autonomous and non-denominational. Rather than the church being described as a body of New Testament believers and as a body that belongs to Christ, the expression strongly suggests “open fellowship” with those of other faiths, as well “independence” and a not-so-desirable association with other congregations in our brotherhood.
  • The website lists 26 elders who have served each of the following years [ordered by seniority]:
    • <font face=courier>1987*. . . . . 2005 . . . . . 2007
      1991*. . . . . 2005 . . . . . 2007
      1991*. . . . . 2005 . . . . . 2007
      1991*. . . . . 2005 . . . . . 2007
      1992 . . . . . 2005 . . . . . 2007
      1996*. . . . . 2005 . . . . . 2007
      2001 . . . . . 2005 . . . . . 2007
      2001 . . . . . 2005 . . . . . 2007
      2004 . . . . . 2005 </font>
    Does the asterisk (*) signify “retiring” or “being replaced”—does anyone know?

    Accordingly, “Ronnie Norman became an elder in 2004 [emph. d.c.]. He and his wife Martha have two grown children, Ronnie also serves as Senior Minister at First Colony....” Isn’t Ronnie Norman, with similar teachings to Rick Atchley’s regarding the use of inanimate, lifeless musical machines in the assembly, a controversial figure in the current scheme of things?
  • The congregation with that number of elders (26) appears to be large. (The Madison, TN congregation had 15 elders when there were 3000 in attendance regularly in the past.) When 18 of the 26 men [with the others being old-timers] have been designated as elders ONLY in the last 3 years, including Ronnie Norman, isn’t there in the history of this church something or things that may be contributing to the latest attempt at restructuring the body of Christ at this location? In addition, let’s take into consideration the Charismatic and culture-driven Church Growth Movements and their influences and effects in certain congregations in RECENT YEARS.
  • Just as the Baptist Church DOES NOT teach that being “buried with Christ in baptism” is a requisite to the forgiveness of sins and to being added to the Lord’s body, the church’s website appears to reflect the same belief:
    • “We ask of our members only what scripture asks of church members: faith in Jesus Christ as Lord & Savior, love for one another, a willingness to follow Christ’s teachings, and Christian baptism (Matthew 28:18-20). At First Colony, we practice baptism by immersion and if you have never been immersed in baptism as a believer before, you will get the opportunity to do so.” (Same teaching by Max Lucado of the Oak Hills Church [formerly “of Christ”]; cf. the OHC website.)
    Why not simply teach what the New Testament plainly teaches that there is no forgiveness of sins in Christ’s blood without FIRST being “BURIED WITH CHRIST in baptism and RESURRECTED (RISEN) WITH HIM” to begin newness of life? Rather than give the impression as the Baptists believe and teach that baptism is a form of obedience AFTER one has already been forgiven of sins and become a Christian? [While I realize that longtime members of FCCC know the truth better than what the website suggests, nonetheless, it is deceptive on the part of the leadership to proclaim such a message of salvation.] If I am wrong by making that assumption, then the leaders need to make the message plain and scriptural.
Just thoughts and observations that may be taken into consideration as we further analyze the “expected” results of the survey as the one above.

Please NOTE that the above message is not intended to question the faith of our brothers and sisters in Christ at First Colony. Rather, it is an expression of our concerns whither the leaders are going with the attempt to tamper with or alter or improvise God’s directives for the church at First Colony. </font>
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Ray
Ray

June 5th, 2008, 12:27 pm #47

Donnie, you have madequite a few erroneous assumptions about First Colony. Is it the Christ-like thing to make assumptions about what you have not asked? The answer is no, it is not the Christ-like thing to do. From the beginning of First Colony, it has been the goal to have approximately 1 elder per 100 members. Graned, there is not specific Biblial statement for this, it is not without Biblical example, e.g. the 100 sheep, the centurion.

Second, you erroneously stated, "Why not simply teach what the New Testament plainly teaches that there is no forgiveness of sins in Christ’s blood without FIRST being “BURIED WITH CHRIST in baptism and RESURRECTED (RISEN) WITH HIM” to begin newness of life? Rather than give the impression as the Baptists believe and teach that baptism is a form of obedience AFTER one has already been forgiven of sins and become a Christian? [While I realize that longtime members of FCCC know the truth better than what the website suggests, nonetheless, it is deceptive on the part of the leadership to proclaim such a message of salvation.] If I am wrong by making that assumption, then the leaders need to make the message plain and scriptural."

The message on the website on baptism is very clear and goes well beyond your error.

The FCCC website also states on baptism, "baptism is clearly commanded as part of the process of accepting Christ as Lord and Savior. '...God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ. When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, ‘Brothers, what shall we do?’ Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.' Acts 2:36-38"

The same explanation of baptism also states, "When one submits to be baptized as an expression of faith and out of love for God, God fully
and completely forgives that individual’s sins and adds that person to His church. The change in relationship with God does not come because we merit or deserve it. It is God’s power, the same power that raised Jesus from the dead, that works the salvation of man. God only requires that we submit in trusting obedience. 'For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith . and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--not by works, so that no one can boast.' Ephesians 2:8-9"

First Colony's teachings of baptism and its relation to faith, forgiveness of sins, becoming one with Christ is entirely consistent with both the scriptures and the Churches of Christ.

Nothing has been hidden or disguised, as you accuse. The leaders at First Colony and the website HAVE made the message plain and scriptural.

That is the problem with this slanderous forum - it makes accusations without seeking the whole truth, or getting to know at all those who are being accused.
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Ken Sublett
Ken Sublett

June 5th, 2008, 6:28 pm #48

People who think that instruments (speaking in tongues) has any role in the assembly or School of Christ are clearly marked by Paul in 1 Corinthians 14 which begins with speaking in tongues.

The SPEAKING in Corinth (since no one had a gift) was charismatic gibberish which always points to effeminate pagan worship specificialy pointing to the New Wine Skins and Apollo who is Abaddon or Apollyon who has released Locusts of Muses to terrorize the World but to SEPARATE the good from the evil.

Here is a first part:

http://www.piney.com/Howbeit.in.the.Spi ... eries.html

The persona of the musical bandits proves the point.








I just received an email from a concerned friend at church who was telling me that there was going to be a meeting explaining how instrumental music was going to be added. May 4th is the target date. The note said that this information needed to be on the "QT" because the congregation did not know this was about to happen. There will be a meeting later this month and a DVD presentation by Rick Atchley. The minister at First Colony is not as dynamic a speaker as Rick Atchley and needs help to get this message across, because the majority of the congregation has already heard about this instrumental music service. The shepherds have become sheep! I am curious as to why the darkness! Bring this out into the light if this is good and just!. John 3 states that evil is afraid to be found out and that is why they stay in the dark.

The email said that the congregation would be completing a brief survey--I guess to determine a consensus? Is this the Oracle of Dephi technique being used on good people?
<font color=red>"The individual is handicapped by coming face to face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists." ~ J. Edgar Hoover</font>

Shepherd means to "feed" the flock: Peter commanded that the elders are the only pastor-teachers. They are limited to "teach that which has been taught" and Jesus denied that even the apostles had command authority." Therefore, the elders have usurped the role of Jesus and the whole body.

Shepherding elders were chosen as a SEPARATE class and because the FLOW CHART has Ronnie Norman as facilitator of change for a long period and the LAUNCH date was at a Shepherding conference as Lynn Anderson as the Chief Shephard, I think you have something going on more like a cult than an ekklesia or school of the Bible. The ekklesia like the Synagogue met weekly for BIBLE STUDY ONLY and there is no MANDATE to go beyond that and ASSUREDLY no funding because there is NO Law of Laying By in Store: that would be, like music, rank legalism and attempt to silence the LAMBS.

Here is the Shepherding Movement as the ONLY rational for Shepherding Elders.

<font color=blue>1. Have you been with a woman this week in such a way that was inappropriate
or could have looked to others that you were using poor judgment?
2. Have you been completely above reproach in all your financial dealings this week?
3. Have you exposed yourself to any explicit material this week?
4. Have you spent daily time in prayer and in the Scriptures this week?
5. Have you fulfilled the mandate of your calling this week?
6. Have you taken time off to be with your family this week?
7. Have you just lied to me?</font>

Shepherding leads the flock to FOOD ONLY: they protect the flock from dogs and wolves (Acts 20 the mark of the Cynics). Music makes the "sounds of rushing waters" and that would be an intention to frighten or intimidate the flock: defining why all music terms speak of inducing the "spiritual anxiety" Jesus died to remove or the "self-pleasure" Paul outlawed for what he always calls a SYNAGOGUE; The synagogue outlawed both vocal and instrumental rejoicing. Music is the mark of SILENCING THE LAMB OF GOD which is proven by the nature of the sermons and both resource and presentaiton method of music.

MYTHS means "to shut the EYES and MOUTH." Music (noise) in all sacrificial systems intended to SHUT THE MOUTH of the victime while they perpetuated VIOLENCE against the innocent lusting that the SCAPE GOAT would carry away their own sins.

<font color=blue>Acts 8:32 The place of the scripture which he read was this,
He was led as a sheep to the slaughter;
and like a lamb dumb before his shearer,
so opened he not his mouth:
</font>

He WAS and IS our scapegoat: THAT IS THE MARK OF THE MUSICIANS.

<font color=blue>Isa 53:4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows:
yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

Is. 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions,
he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him;
and with his stripes we are healed.</font>

Wounded is

<font color=blue>H2490 châlal
khaw-lal' (by implication) to wound, to dissolve; figuratively to profane (a person, place or thing), to break (one’s word), to begin (as if by an opening-wedge); denominatively (from H2485 ) to play (the flute): defile,break, defile, X eat (as common things), take inheritance, pipe, player on instruments, pollute, (cast as) profane (self), prostitute, slay (slain), sorrow, stain, wound.</font>



This is applied to LUCIFER being cast as profane out of heaven. She/he/it was in the garden of Eden as a singing and harp playing prostitute. As connected to Tyre, she used music to steal other people's property and to 'steal souls' into slaver.

<font color=blue>Is. 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way;
and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth:
he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb,
so he openeth not his mouth. Isa 53:7</font>

A version of Psalm 41 and others understood the language. That Judas would not triumph over Jesus means that his attempt would fail at "making vocal and instrumental rejoicing" always a warrior concept intending to intimidate the enemy. The IMPOSING of instrumental music as First Colony is a "spite of hell" intention to TRIUMPH OVER the masses of the church which has repudiated him and the other small band of deliberate discorders. Like Judas, the triumph will be short and the only redemption is at the end of a rope until your body rots and splashes on the ground. The Judas Bag was for carrying the mouthpieces of wind instruments: always marking the music and the reproaches against Jesus which meant to EXPOSE HIS PUDENDA.



DSS: <font color=blue>"In the Hymns of Thanksgiving in the Dead Sea Scrolls,
we are confronted with a number of references to music which are,
as in some Pauline passages, mere rhetorical device;

They roared abuse of me
To the Play of the lyre
And in mocking-songs
uttered their sneers (ch. V)</font>

And Jeremiah showed:

<font color=blue>.\I sat not in the assembly of the mockers, nor rejoiced; I sat alone because of thy hand: for thou hast filled me with indignation. Jer 15:17

Zaam (h2195) zah'-am; from 2194; strictly froth at the mouth, i. e. (fig.) fury (espec. of God's displeasure with sin): - angry, indignation, rage.

Alaz (h5937) aw-laz'; a prim. root; to jump for joy, i. e. exult: - be joyful, rejoice, triumph.</font>

I assure you that NOTHING causes you to be MARKED than imposing music when it is radically repudiated from genesis to Revelation" and in the literature. John says that the Mother of Harlots has taken over (look to see who is rope puller) who uses "lusted after fruits" as speakers, singers, musicians and techne (theater builders and stage managers) whom John calls SORCERERS who HAD deceived the whole world. How do you intend to TRUMP 100% of the Bible and church history and AFFIRM a few "fallen angels" who magically showed up in all Bible based churches working lying wonders.

If the Church of Christ as the ELECT (invited and added to the ekklesia as school of the Bible ONLY) would ALMOST fall under the huge effort, I am encouraged that I think you have about 7 out of over the intended `13,000 congregations which REFUSED to be marked.

The Books of Adam and Eve tell the same story as The Book of Enoch which is quoted at least 128 times in the New Testament specificially MARKING a musical sect as the ones for whom God will come in judgement: the MARK and CAUSE of the fall was into Satan's Music and perversion. Religious music has always been a real or virtual attack.

http://www.piney.com/MuGenun2.html

Here is the GRADUAL process even as Ronnie has confessed to a slow boil by using instruments in "other venues" and conditioning the CHILDREN to go all the way: 20 years will get the job done. Of the Children of Seth:

They heard
They wondered
They came
They stood
They looked
The were gradually won over
Genun was given power to accelerate the seduction process
The Sethites continued a divided allegiance
They fell into temptation
They began to hallucinate
They lusted
They fell from grace
They tried to repent but could not
They were sentenced to captivity
They served as a warning or pattern.

If you ENABLE the MARKING you are a MARKER. Sorry, but there is not a shred of information which refutes that so people have taken ZERO and perverted it into the APPROVED TEXT. Doesn't that make you shudder. The persona of the Sunday sermon "dazzled" me.
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Ken Sublett
Ken Sublett

June 6th, 2008, 3:22 am #49

People who think that instruments (speaking in tongues) has any role in the assembly or School of Christ are clearly marked by Paul in 1 Corinthians 14 which begins with speaking in tongues.

The SPEAKING in Corinth (since no one had a gift) was charismatic gibberish which always points to effeminate pagan worship specificialy pointing to the New Wine Skins and Apollo who is Abaddon or Apollyon who has released Locusts of Muses to terrorize the World but to SEPARATE the good from the evil.

Here is a first part:

http://www.piney.com/Howbeit.in.the.Spi ... eries.html

The persona of the musical bandits proves the point.








I just received an email from a concerned friend at church who was telling me that there was going to be a meeting explaining how instrumental music was going to be added. May 4th is the target date. The note said that this information needed to be on the "QT" because the congregation did not know this was about to happen. There will be a meeting later this month and a DVD presentation by Rick Atchley. The minister at First Colony is not as dynamic a speaker as Rick Atchley and needs help to get this message across, because the majority of the congregation has already heard about this instrumental music service. The shepherds have become sheep! I am curious as to why the darkness! Bring this out into the light if this is good and just!. John 3 states that evil is afraid to be found out and that is why they stay in the dark.

The email said that the congregation would be completing a brief survey--I guess to determine a consensus? Is this the Oracle of Dephi technique being used on good people?
I have posted a quick review of Revelation 5 which is used by Ronnie Norman and a few others to justify an intention to introduce musical machines knowing that it will sow discord and offend many of these "little ones" who thought that they were joint owners.

http://www.piney.com/Revelation.5.html

Just a quick study by anyone interested in the MESSAGE of Revelation 5 would easily understand that it is repudiating literal musical instruments.

The problem: no human has the ability to unloose the SEALS put on all of God's word to keep the unworthy from understanding. That being the case they easily MARK themselves as the enemies of the Word to anyone who cares even a little bit.

Only the Holy Spirit whose name is "Jesus Christ the Righteous" can unseal what He gave through the Apostles to mark as false teachers those elders who do not "teach that which has been taught."

The word HOLDING or HAVING harps never means PLAYING a literal harp: that would be rank legalism and virtual insanity if you want to unlock the mysteries.

The word means that they POSSESS A holy spirit or a clear conscience and can understand the Words which are spoken. Those who cannot, for instance, read the word SPEAK and it comes out as MAKE MUSIC.

That holy personal spirit vibrates in sympathy with the Spirit of Christ which He said was in His words.

The OTHER meaning of HOLDING speaks of making a clanging noise with literal instruments. The purpose is to SET AN AMBUSH to steal the spirits

<font color=blue>[520] But when they were come to the place where it seemed good unto them to set their ambush, in a river-bed where was a watering-place for all herds alike, there they sate them down, clothed about with flaming bronze. Thereafter were two scouts set by them apart from the host, waiting till they should have sight of the sheep and sleek cattle.

[525] And these came presently, and two herdsmen followed with them playing upon pipes; and of the guile wist they not at all.</font>

Instruments under the Levitical Warrior musicians included SETTING AMBUSH:
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

June 6th, 2008, 5:34 am #50

People who think that instruments (speaking in tongues) has any role in the assembly or School of Christ are clearly marked by Paul in 1 Corinthians 14 which begins with speaking in tongues.

The SPEAKING in Corinth (since no one had a gift) was charismatic gibberish which always points to effeminate pagan worship specificialy pointing to the New Wine Skins and Apollo who is Abaddon or Apollyon who has released Locusts of Muses to terrorize the World but to SEPARATE the good from the evil.

Here is a first part:

http://www.piney.com/Howbeit.in.the.Spi ... eries.html

The persona of the musical bandits proves the point.








I just received an email from a concerned friend at church who was telling me that there was going to be a meeting explaining how instrumental music was going to be added. May 4th is the target date. The note said that this information needed to be on the "QT" because the congregation did not know this was about to happen. There will be a meeting later this month and a DVD presentation by Rick Atchley. The minister at First Colony is not as dynamic a speaker as Rick Atchley and needs help to get this message across, because the majority of the congregation has already heard about this instrumental music service. The shepherds have become sheep! I am curious as to why the darkness! Bring this out into the light if this is good and just!. John 3 states that evil is afraid to be found out and that is why they stay in the dark.

The email said that the congregation would be completing a brief survey--I guess to determine a consensus? Is this the Oracle of Dephi technique being used on good people?
<font color=indigo size=3 face=times new roman>Ray,

You brought up 3 issues in response to my earlier post regarding “the survey and the FCCC website:
  • The accusation that it is NOT “Christ-like e.g., to question the congregation’s eldership’s goals and objectives for the church—one of which is already obvious: restructuring the body of Christ in the locality. An example of this is the “experimentation”—let’s see, not necessarily what God authorizes, but what some members would like to experience with the use of inanimate and lifeless musical machines in the assembly. Why that process is considered restructuring? Because it has not been there in the congregation and in the brotherhood all along; the New Testament teaches to “let the word of Christ dwell in us richly, teaching and admonishing one another” in singing. Apparently, the musical machines are incapable of “teaching and adnominishing.”

    Currently, the leadership is having its members experience the “Boiling Frog Syndrome.” The illustration of the point “that moving too recklessly and aggressively may leave one with an empty pot, but traversing a steadier course of more gradual change is much more likely to bring about the desired result.” To further simplify:
    • ”The frog’s body temperature follows its surroundings. If you put the frog directly in boiling water, it will sense the heat immediately and jump out. But when you heat the water slowly, the frog keeps adjusting to the rising temperature. When the heat is too much for the frog to take, it is too late. The frog collapses and dies.”
    Ray, you can avoid the pervasive issue all you want, but you should know that the brotherhood is keenly noticing the directives coming from Rick Atchley, Max Lucado, Ronnie Norman, et al.
  • You claim that I “erroneously stated” the following:
    • Why not simply teach what the New Testament plainly teaches that there is no forgiveness of sins in Christ’s blood without FIRST being “BURIED WITH CHRIST in baptism and RESURRECTED (RISEN) WITH HIM” to begin newness of life? Rather than give the impression as the Baptists believe and teach that baptism is a form of obedience AFTER one has already been forgiven of sins and become a Christian? [While I realize that longtime members of FCCC know the truth better than what the website suggests, nonetheless, it is deceptive on the part of the leadership to proclaim such a message of salvation.] If I am wrong by making that assumption, then the leaders need to make the message plain and scriptural.
    So, mentioning what the “Baptists believe and teach” is repulsive to you? Sorry, but you probably should have learned by now that when a Baptist or the FCCC website says that “baptism is clearly commanded as part of the process of accepting Christ as Lord and Savior,” non-members would automatically perceive that one is SAVED (sins are forgiven) when he “accepts Jesus Christ as his personal Savior.”

    Ray, the site’s text that I quoted in particular needs to be revised and to reflect what the New Testament teaches about baptism. The particular text also needs to reflect whatever and wherever else the website teaches about baptism that agrees with the New Testament. Remember when I said, “ If I am wrong by making that assumption, then the leaders need to make the message plain and scriptural.” Simply, that baptism is designed FOR or UNTO [for, so that, in order that, to, TOWARD] the forgiveness of sins in the Savior’s blood. It is not good enough to state that baptism is by immersion and is commanded (which the Baptist and other faiths teach also) without appending the truth that it is for the purpose of having sins remitted in His blood (and the Baptist and other faiths do not teach such purpose).

    Ray, in case you’re still confused as to which particular text regarding baptism I’ve been referring to, please follow this link: (a) NEW TO FCCC, then (b) MEMBERSHIP. The middle paragraph states [with emphases by d.c.]:
    • We ask of our members only what scripture asks of church members: faith in Jesus Christ as Lord & Savior, love for one another, a willingness to follow Christ’s teachings, and Christian baptism (Matthew 28:18-20). At First Colony, we practice baptism by immersion and if you have never been immersed in baptism as a believer before, you will get the opportunity to do so.
    This message is addressed to those who are “new to FCCC.” And just what is “Christian baptism” when the Scripture teaches that one is baptized in order to become a Christian? Is “love for one another” a requisite to “Christian baptism”? Is baptism subsequent to one’s being already a Christian? Plus, in that text, the purpose of baptism is not specified to someone new [including someone from another faith] to FCCC—that is UNTO the forgiveness of sins.
  • With regard to the eldership, you were comparing apples and oranges. You missed my point completely. My point was not about the church’s “goal to have approximately 1 elder per 100 members.” It does not matter how many elders are/have been appointed. My point was simply about the “trend”—that almost 70% of the total number of elders has been chosen in the last 3 years, especially since Ronnie Norman was the first of the 70% to use the “office of a bishop.” Your own “centurion” concept does not compute in this regard.
Alright, you haven’t made comments about the survey. You haven’t justified the purpose or reason for the survey and why the leadership is even making an attempt to experiment with something that they should—of all folks—KNOW and be fully AWARE is POTENTIALLY RISKY, CONTROVERSIAL and DIVISIVE.</font>
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