First Colony Church: notes on Instrumental Music in 1 Corinthians 14

Dr. Stanley Cook
Dr. Stanley Cook

May 12th, 2008, 8:11 pm #21

Ken,

You continue to violate Paul's command about not judging other believers. For you to continually take worship that helps people in this day and time draw closer to God and twist it into something sexual and perverted, you just reveal your own perverse thinking. Your fruits reveal that you do not have the Spirit of Christ. Only one whose mind is carnal could take something as inspiring as a worship team singing "Our God Is An Awesome God" and see something sexual in it. You may not realize it, but every time you post one of your lengthy discourses on how "contemporary worship" is something sexual in nature, most objective readers can clearly see how much fleshly minded you are. I'm surprised you don't have a link to Fred Phelps' Westboro Baptist on here, because it seems you have some things in common with him. Do you have any idea how many people view this site as spiritual pornography?
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Anonymous
Anonymous

May 13th, 2008, 2:21 am #22

Looks like you know a lot about the subject of judging people! Do you know anything about the subject of loving people?
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Ray
Ray

May 17th, 2008, 3:47 pm #23

Ray,

Except for this website and piney.com, I would never have known who Ken was. At least he tries to answer quetions and I will respect him. I am searching for some answers, to some of the questions, I have about what is happening. I do not get answers from First Colony, in fact I get propaganda. I get why we need to do what we are doing from a DVD from a minister from another church. Friends of mine have approached elders about what is going on and they have been told that "maybe you should find some other place to worship". Why can't our elders be more forthcoming? Other than Ronnie have you heard one speak to the assembly about any of this? Even in those selected meetings, people were suppressed from speaking what was on their hearts. You have got to believe there is some deceit going on!

Robert
There is not deceipt at all. I have talked to many of the elders one-on-one. Most I have known for over 20 years. I have been very open about my opinions. They have been very open about theirs. The only deceipt I have ever seen is from Ken. He is not interested in truth. Ken is not intersted in what God has to say. Ken is only interested Ken, dividing one brother from another, stiriing up strife, and in promoting his propaganda and his slander of good Christian men and a strong and faithful Church of Christ.
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Robert
Robert

May 17th, 2008, 8:51 pm #24

Ray,

Ask Ronnie Norman when he decided to add instrumental music to the First Colony church and ask him how he went about convincing others it needed to be done. Also if we are an "independent non-denominational" church(as is stated on the outside of the bulletin we get each Sunday)why are we using the Community church teaching materials? Other ministers in Houston know exactly what is going on, because they attended the same seminars, and they know the extreme degree in which First Colony is taking the advice from these consultants. As for the elders, they cannot see where we have come from and where we are? Yes, the change has been extremely slow, but at this point, there should be a realization that we are not who we say we are!

By the way, do you know the people that have been involved in this changing experience have been taught to avoid public forums? I would be surprised if any of them would respond to this chat board with any explanations, other than just revealing observations!
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Ray
Ray

May 17th, 2008, 10:11 pm #25

Robert,

I have laready asked Ronnie and many of the elders. And I was told. It was not Ronnie's idea. It has been an idea that has been discussed by many for over 10 years. Ken has so many facts wrong that Ken is a joke. He is divisive and is not of God. The only reason I have come here is to try to set the record straight for those who have swallowed Ken's poison. Just look at Galatians and answer honestly which fruit describes Ken and which fruit describes First Colony:

Ken's fruit - The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

First Colony's fruit - But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires.

Ken's divisiveness has never led a soul to God. First Colony has led countless souls to God.

Yo may not agree with what Fist Colny has decided to do. I am not happy about it either. But I know these men and they are honest, truthful, starightforward, and serving God and Him only. Ken has none of these Christ-like traits.
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Ken Sublett
Ken Sublett

May 18th, 2008, 4:11 am #26

People who think that instruments (speaking in tongues) has any role in the assembly or School of Christ are clearly marked by Paul in 1 Corinthians 14 which begins with speaking in tongues.

The SPEAKING in Corinth (since no one had a gift) was charismatic gibberish which always points to effeminate pagan worship specificialy pointing to the New Wine Skins and Apollo who is Abaddon or Apollyon who has released Locusts of Muses to terrorize the World but to SEPARATE the good from the evil.

Here is a first part:

http://www.piney.com/Howbeit.in.the.Spi ... eries.html

The persona of the musical bandits proves the point.








I just received an email from a concerned friend at church who was telling me that there was going to be a meeting explaining how instrumental music was going to be added. May 4th is the target date. The note said that this information needed to be on the "QT" because the congregation did not know this was about to happen. There will be a meeting later this month and a DVD presentation by Rick Atchley. The minister at First Colony is not as dynamic a speaker as Rick Atchley and needs help to get this message across, because the majority of the congregation has already heard about this instrumental music service. The shepherds have become sheep! I am curious as to why the darkness! Bring this out into the light if this is good and just!. John 3 states that evil is afraid to be found out and that is why they stay in the dark.

The email said that the congregation would be completing a brief survey--I guess to determine a consensus? Is this the Oracle of Dephi technique being used on good people?
The only way to JUDGE people is to actively pass sentence on them: these false teachers do the JUDGING that what they hallucinate TRUMPS all of the Bible and known history. Lying cannot be excused by whining "you're another one." Peter warned you that evil people can PERVERT Paul's writings to their own destruction. I have told you the truth and you will find no Biblical or historical evidence that pagan religious musicians performed "priestly duties" and were always perverts. To their credit, not in the VILEST pagan temple could singers or musicians enter into the Holy Place (type of the church) in 2 Chronicles 29 which they lie about EVEN TO CLEAN OUT GARBAGE left over from pagan musical worship INSIDE of the closed spaces which is THE Abomination of Desolation.

Paul, like Jesus defined two venues: the MARKETPLACE where you might be shunned based on the food stalls. Jesus consigned the pipers, singers and dancers along with all of the perverted religions to the marketplace. And he cast out the musical minstrels LIKE DUNG because they performed ONLY in the marketplaces and NEVER in the ekklesia or church. Flute-girl and prostitute is synonyms.

The ekklesia is DEFINED as for VERBAL instruction ONLY. Poetry and music is EXCLUDED by the word SPEAK because poets and musicians were RESTRICTED to writing MYTHS and never TRUE FACTS. You have fallen into what I accuse you of when you WORSHIP the team singing about a AWESOME God when it is AWEFUL GOD who intends to burn up all of the dogs and sorcerers. A TRUE church would let some manly person teach about an AWEFUL GOD who abandoned musical idolaters without blinking. Paul OUTLAWED discoursing anything doubtful from the "made up" poets and musicians.

Assuredly the Mother of Harlots using speakers, singers and instrumentalists as SORCERERS is an AWESOME GODDESS. But MY God is an AWFUL GOD who will burn you to a crisp for such a perverted approach. You just never even in vile paganism do THAT to a patriarchal god.

<a href="http://www.piney.com/MuAwesomeGod.html</a" target="_new">http://www.piney.com/MuAwesomeGod.html</a>

The priests were Khana-Baals. The end-time restoration of the Babylonian religion explains why the clergy are CONSUMING THEIR OWN flock as God pours out His wrath. They try to destroy the SEED OF CHRIST and SOW THE SEED OF THE SERPENT. See Hislop on the AWESOME cannabal eaters of FRUITS.

<a href="http://www.piney.com/Hisl71.html</a" target="_new">http://www.piney.com/Hisl71.html</a>

The history of S.U.N. worship now being urged to replace S.O.N. is the MARK and all of those "agents" were marked as sexually confused.

The Grand Inquisitor, Fyodor Dostoyevsky

<a href="http://www.piney.com/PrDostoy.html</a" target="_new">http://www.piney.com/PrDostoy.html</a>

<img src=http://www.piney.com/Dostoyevsky.gif alt="" width="650">
Last edited by Donnie.Cruz on June 2nd, 2008, 9:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Ray
Ray

May 19th, 2008, 4:07 pm #27

I wanted to comment on Ronnie’s sermon this past Sunday (5-4-2008). He took his sermon from Romans and specifically the section I wanted to speak to is in Romans 14. I do not believe that Paul was talking about people within the same Faith. I can almost say for certain that he was speaking of people with different Faiths. Those faiths included eastern religion that had practices far different than those practiced by the followers of Jesus. I believe that the people that congregated together were of like mind in how they should do “church”. For example, in Stafford, TX on Ave. E there is the most beautiful Hindu Temple. Hinduism believes that one can be of any religion, yet their faith is still Hindu. They can sit in any church and not violate their faith. Their religion is very open, their faith is very strong. If they were to be converted to a belief in Jesus, they would have a lot of adjusting in their hearts. Inside their temple is a statue/Idol which is tended to daily. They will change the robes on this statue at least every two days, food will be placed in front of it regularly and the windows and doors are opened and shut depending on weather and the light. I think Paul was saying to Christians, then and now, accept these people as souls that God cares for and do not belittle them, and keep your comments between you and God(vs. 22). We should minister to them in the love of Jesus. I do not believe that in Chapter 14 and 15 he was suggesting that we as a body of believers in the same congregation, recognize our differences, divide up among ourselves, be understanding of each other, and share the same preacher as a sign of unity. How is sharing the same preacher between different types of services showing anything?

When Jesus called his faithful, he told them to leave everything and follow him. During Jesus time, knowing how to provide food on a daily basis would be important to a mass of people, like fishing for food would have been. He did not turn to his followers and say, my ministry could use a few your nets and boats for fishing to feed people. He did not say, this ability you have mastered, would make my ministry more appealing to people and bring more people to knowing God. Nothing like the messages that Ronnie has been teaching the congregation about the musical service that he believes needs to be implemented, so as to attract or satisfy people. No on the contrary! Jesus said leave everything, your fishing nets, boats, bait, everything and follow me in Faith! Could we not say, as we follow Jesus example, that we need nothing to be more appealing to others than our heart, the spirit within us, which is God’s gift to everyone! Now in love, who should we follow?
Robert,

I appreciate you givning your thoughts on Ronnie and Romans 14. I don't agree with your conclusions (it seems evident to me, and most all scholars, that Paul was talking about and to Christians and their differing beliefs on what Paul deemed to be non-essential matters), but at least your thougths were specific to Ronnie's sermon. This is unlike Ken's modus operandi, where he simply takes things he wrote years ago, and repackages them for each on his new conspiracy theories (see http://www.piney.com/BibRom14Text.html for evidence).

I will also add that no one who has listened to Ronnie's sermon from this last Sunday (May 18th) could ever conclude that Ronnie follows anything other than the Word of God, and that only.

I have personally witnessed the good at First Colony, how lives have been changed from serving self to serving God, and how God is using the leaders and members at First Colony for advancement of God's kingdom and His glory. And I personally witnessed how Ken is tearing down God's kingdom.
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Ken Sublett
Ken Sublett

May 21st, 2008, 7:36 pm #28

People who think that instruments (speaking in tongues) has any role in the assembly or School of Christ are clearly marked by Paul in 1 Corinthians 14 which begins with speaking in tongues.

The SPEAKING in Corinth (since no one had a gift) was charismatic gibberish which always points to effeminate pagan worship specificialy pointing to the New Wine Skins and Apollo who is Abaddon or Apollyon who has released Locusts of Muses to terrorize the World but to SEPARATE the good from the evil.

Here is a first part:

http://www.piney.com/Howbeit.in.the.Spi ... eries.html

The persona of the musical bandits proves the point.








I just received an email from a concerned friend at church who was telling me that there was going to be a meeting explaining how instrumental music was going to be added. May 4th is the target date. The note said that this information needed to be on the "QT" because the congregation did not know this was about to happen. There will be a meeting later this month and a DVD presentation by Rick Atchley. The minister at First Colony is not as dynamic a speaker as Rick Atchley and needs help to get this message across, because the majority of the congregation has already heard about this instrumental music service. The shepherds have become sheep! I am curious as to why the darkness! Bring this out into the light if this is good and just!. John 3 states that evil is afraid to be found out and that is why they stay in the dark.

The email said that the congregation would be completing a brief survey--I guess to determine a consensus? Is this the Oracle of Dephi technique being used on good people?
Ronnie Norman WARNS about NOT JUDGING but the same PERSONA of the hypocrites Jesus warns against is clear to anyone who can read the whole chapter in context.

JUDGE not, that ye be not judged. Matthew 7:1. Ronnie Norman of First Colony Church of Christ is manipulating a Church of Christ into using instrumental music. He will use Old Testament "snippets" which speak if musical instruments to claim that God COMMANDS INSTRUMENTAL PRAISE and consistent with those who went before him claim that we would be DISOBEDIENT if we did not use instruments. However, all of the Old Testament mention of instruments identify the serpent in the garden of Eden as a Musical Enchater(ess), Lucifer called that "singing and harp playing prostitute" in the garden, musical loss of grace at Mount Sinai, IMPOSED animal slaughter with exorcism noise--never called music, panic-driving warrior Levites, prostitutes and Sodomites.

In last week's sermon:

Ronnie speaks of a non-chronological Old Testament and defines the different genres of literature. However, in ALL of those types we see warrior instruments as part of a Gentile-like temple as a curse and MOST of the Prophets--speaking by the Spirit OF Christ--radically condemning instruments as the MARK of people who had refused to listen to the Word and therefore went into captivity. As Ronnie Norman says that Nehemiah should be the last book in the Old Testament, it is interesting that he denies that the King-Clergy-Temple system was by God's command but was imposed because of their sins. He concludes that they were all robbers and PARASITES who stole their inheritance.

Ronnie claims to "Know the Bible pretty well" and claims the Holy Spirit as revealing truth in the black text on white paper and it seems like the Holy Spirit (Jesus Christ) is often tardy in revealing the coded message. This is consistent with others who have IMPOSED musical instruments claiming visions, audible voices or the guidance of the Holy Spirit. They implicate the Spirit of Christ in lying about all of the proof texts.

The end of the sermon praises the ministry staff by saying that they had studied Matthew 7 about DO NOT JUDGE. I would guess that enough deliberate discord has been sown that people are judging his Holy Spirit revelation as NOT the fact. Therefore, here are some rough notes to prove that this NOT JUDGING points directly to the SECTARIANS as Scribes and Pharisees: he calls THEM hypocrites and Jesus will MARK them as hypocrites by OUTING performance speakers, singers and instrument players. Jesus identified Ezekiel as being seen as NOTHING MORE than perverted performers for a wage.

http://www.piney.com/Matthew7.html

If I planned to deliberately lie, as did his misleaders, about the Bible and claiming that he is led by the Holy Spirit, as they did, is well beyond redemption.
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Harold
Harold

May 22nd, 2008, 5:16 am #29

I studied this issue in some detail 24 years ago and reached what I believed to be a sound resolution. I am not professionally trained as a theologian, so that conclusion was based on a reading of readily available English translations of the Bible, specifically the Revised Standard Version, New Amereican Standard Bible, and New International Version, supplemented by some of the early debates on the subject among restoration movement leaders and several other sources. I realized that my conclusions differed from some people whose opinions I valued and respected and who had devoted more time to a study of the issue than had I. I knew that my conclusions were not infallible, but I also recognized that many men with more training and blessed with greater native intelligence and a more spiritual inclination than I differed among themselves on the issue. Those were men who had unquestionable respect for the scriptures and a love for the Lord. That recognition reaffirmed my conclusion that the issue was not as clearly addressed in the New Testament as we would have liked. I believe that God knows how to write a rule book, as evidenced by the specificity of Leviticus, and that his New Testament followers did not deliberately seek to hide the truth from we later followers. So, my conclusion was that the issue was worhty of debate and discussion, but that the discussion should properly be viewed as an inhouse debate among fellow believers, not an argument between sons of God and sons of Satan. I beleived then, and do now, that the Spirit that authored Leviticus would not leave us with any unclarity on a "salvation issue."

I visited this site at the suggestion of someone close to me to see if there were some aspects of the issue being raised that I had not considered 24 years ago and that I should think about. I was disappointed by much of what I read, which seemed to cross the line from good faith debate to anger and hatred. I believe the writers are all men of faith who seek the truth, but the tone of the writings does not seem to be reasonably calculated to either convince those of a different opinion or to draw anyone to Christ. I for one would appreciate a rational discussion of the issue that is based upon a reading of the scriptures as preserved in the English language. I am not comfortable placing my faith in any one man's interpretation of the Greek, because I have read different interpetations of the most applicable texts by men who had significant training in Biblical languages. Since I do not have training in the Biblical languages and have no opportunity to acquire that training from anyone who spoke it or wrote it during the time of Christ and his apostles, I am more comfortable accepting definitions that have been vetted by many scholars of different backgrounds, such as contained in the versions mentioned above.

I appreciate you providing this forum for discussion and I will visit this site again to see if the discussion has progressed in a way that will enlighten me to mistakes in my reasoning or that will raise concerns that I did not think about years ago. However, if the discussion continues to move in the direction of hatred and villification, I believe that the opportunity for members to discuss current issues afforded by this forum will be wasted and will not serve to enlighten or educate any interested party but will merely become another avenue to express anger and bitterness.

My daughter tells me that I cannot speak without sounding like I am lecturing, so I apologize if this sounds like a lecture. I simply believe that the "unity" movement that is and was the American Restoration Movement has witnesses so much strife and discord in the last 110 years that it has lost much of its ability to spread the truth of the Gospel. It would be a pleasant change to see the swords laid down when we enter the temple and a discussion held without name calling, condemnation of motivaions, or immediate threats of splitting congregations. Our movement has not recovered its vitality from the early blood letting. I hope and pray that the manner in which we resolve our inhouse disputes may become a witness to the world around us of the Spirit of Truth and Grace that is so clearly demonstrated in the scriptures. Thank you for the opportunity to express my concern.
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Ray
Ray

May 22nd, 2008, 4:46 pm #30

Ronnie Norman WARNS about NOT JUDGING but the same PERSONA of the hypocrites Jesus warns against is clear to anyone who can read the whole chapter in context.

JUDGE not, that ye be not judged. Matthew 7:1. Ronnie Norman of First Colony Church of Christ is manipulating a Church of Christ into using instrumental music. He will use Old Testament "snippets" which speak if musical instruments to claim that God COMMANDS INSTRUMENTAL PRAISE and consistent with those who went before him claim that we would be DISOBEDIENT if we did not use instruments. However, all of the Old Testament mention of instruments identify the serpent in the garden of Eden as a Musical Enchater(ess), Lucifer called that "singing and harp playing prostitute" in the garden, musical loss of grace at Mount Sinai, IMPOSED animal slaughter with exorcism noise--never called music, panic-driving warrior Levites, prostitutes and Sodomites.

In last week's sermon:

Ronnie speaks of a non-chronological Old Testament and defines the different genres of literature. However, in ALL of those types we see warrior instruments as part of a Gentile-like temple as a curse and MOST of the Prophets--speaking by the Spirit OF Christ--radically condemning instruments as the MARK of people who had refused to listen to the Word and therefore went into captivity. As Ronnie Norman says that Nehemiah should be the last book in the Old Testament, it is interesting that he denies that the King-Clergy-Temple system was by God's command but was imposed because of their sins. He concludes that they were all robbers and PARASITES who stole their inheritance.

Ronnie claims to "Know the Bible pretty well" and claims the Holy Spirit as revealing truth in the black text on white paper and it seems like the Holy Spirit (Jesus Christ) is often tardy in revealing the coded message. This is consistent with others who have IMPOSED musical instruments claiming visions, audible voices or the guidance of the Holy Spirit. They implicate the Spirit of Christ in lying about all of the proof texts.

The end of the sermon praises the ministry staff by saying that they had studied Matthew 7 about DO NOT JUDGE. I would guess that enough deliberate discord has been sown that people are judging his Holy Spirit revelation as NOT the fact. Therefore, here are some rough notes to prove that this NOT JUDGING points directly to the SECTARIANS as Scribes and Pharisees: he calls THEM hypocrites and Jesus will MARK them as hypocrites by OUTING performance speakers, singers and instrument players. Jesus identified Ezekiel as being seen as NOTHING MORE than perverted performers for a wage.

http://www.piney.com/Matthew7.html

If I planned to deliberately lie, as did his misleaders, about the Bible and claiming that he is led by the Holy Spirit, as they did, is well beyond redemption.
Ken has deliberately misled this audience about Ronnie's sermon last Sunday (May 18, 2008). I was there at 2 of the three services (including the one that was recorded). Ronnie's sermon was NOT on Matthew 7. PERIOD. His sermon was on reading the Bible every day, relying only on the Bible for God's guidance, and what can happen when one does not rely only on God's written word. The sermon context and theme was that we have to not only know the Bible through reading it every day, we have to live what we read every day. As an example of reading and studying the Bible every day, Ronnie mentioned the staff has a daily Bible study including memory work. Friday's assignment was Matthew 7. That is the context of how Matthew 7 was included in the sermon. Do not let Ken mislead you. He does not know Ronnie, he does not know the good Godly men that our elders, he does not know our members, and he does not know the Fruit of the Holy Sprit that is seen in the lives of First Colony Church of Christ members and leaders. And he cannot even listen to a recorded sermon and give you accurate information.
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