Farmers Branch Church of Christ, Dallas,Tx.

Kenneth Sublett
Kenneth Sublett

April 19th, 2003, 2:53 am #31

JUST ONE PROOF TEXT FROM FARMER'S, Sam, for most who will not PLOUGH THROUGH the review of Farmer's Justification for music. It is typical of those who denounce non-instrumentalists for SOWING DISCORD. Their research paper is like too many sermons: they read just a verse which uses MUSIC or SINGING and PLAYING and the claim that this PROVES that the Jews ALWAYS worshiped God with SINGING and PLAYING INSTRUMENTS. That is not remotely true. For instance.

Farmer's Branch Church of Christ: The Leadership's Position In Light Of The Scriptures, There are NUMEROUS REFERENCES in the Bible to SINGING with and the PLAYING of musical instruments IN WORSHIP to God.

No, that is not a fact. This paper will quote not a single passage relating to congregational singing with instruments. Children, shepherds, camp followers, magicians and prostitutes played music for fun and PROFIT. The warrior Levites "under the KING and COMMANDERS OF THE ARMY served the PRIESTS as they slaughtered and burned animals IN THE COURT. The sacrificed animals were a carnal type of LORD JESUS CHRIST.

The noise makers (not musicians) were in the COURT and not in the Holy Place. The Holy Place even as a carnal type of the church of Christ was off limits to any SINGER or MUSICIAN. The RISING UP TO PLAY at Mount Sinai was singing, playing and more. David "rose up to play" as he SEPARATED the Ark of the Covenant and brought it to Jerusalem which was a JEBUSITE HIGH PLACE because David was TOO FEARFUL of God to ever return to the Tabernacle. David was not a WORSHIP LEADER. No Israelite community EVER WORSHIPED with singing and INSTRUMENTAL MUSIC. So, why is it HATEFUL to tell you that the WHITE PAPER perverts every musical statement in the Bible? The animal slaughter with LOUD NOISE to drown out the horrors was OFF LIMITS to the common people. They worshiped by living right and practicing social justice. They went to the SYNAGOGUE (Qahal) as the "church in the wilderness" only for TEACHING and God OUTLAWED this non-music for the ASSEMBLY.

As prophesied in Psalm 41, the WARRIOR MUSICIANS tipped off by Judas would MOCK Jesus as He was being prepared for the crucifixion. The music was the ALARM or TRIUMPH OVER. This is defined as "playing instruments and 'making a joyful noise before the Lord'." This was the almost universal WARRIOR'S CHANT to create PANIC as in the story of Gideon. The Jews would accuse Jesus of being BEEL-ZEBUB (Hebrew Dung God) and then attack Him with mocking music. This is fully recorded in pre-Christian translations of the Psalm at the Dead Sea. The JUDAS BAG was always attached to a FLUTE CASE and is defined and PICTURED for you to see as meaning A CASE FOR CARRYING THE MOUTHPIECES OR 'TONGUES' OF WIND INSTRUMENTS." It is pictured in the drunken DIONYSUS KOMO with CHORUS exactly conveying the meaning when they PIPED hoping Jesus would sing and dance the DIONYSUS dance.

Here is the almost- universal meaning of what is PERVERTED to be spiritual worship:

And they rose early in the morning, and went forth into the wilderness of Tekoa: and as they went forth, Jehoshaphat stood and said, Hear me, O Judah, and ye inhabitants of Jerusalem; Believe in the Lord your God, so shall ye be established; believe his prophets, so shall ye prosper. 2 Chron 20:20

And when he had CONSULTED with the people, he appointed SINGERS unto the Lord, and that should praise the beauty of holiness, as they went out before the ARMY, and to say, Praise the Lord; for his mercy endureth for ever. 2 Chron 20: 21

Then and now music was used to panic the enemy. By the playing of instruments and singing a BOAST song you tried to convince the enemy to turn coward and surrender or run for their lives. PRAISE is the Hebrew:

Halal (h1984) haw-lal'; a prim. root; to be clear (orig. of sound, but usually of color); to shine; hence to make a show, to boast; boast self

IT IS THE SOURCE of the word translated LUCIFER. So, be careful HOW you praise in MAKING A SHOW. The Lucifer principle is to BLEED OFF worship due only to God.

Heylel (h1966) hay-lale'; from 1984 (in the sense of brightness); the morning-star: - Lucifer.

---How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! Is.14:12

Imagine a troop led by bagpipers approaching your lines and you can get the "high" feeling which is not spiritual:

And when they began to SING and to PRAISE, the Lord set AMBUSHMENTS against the children of Ammon, Moab, and mount Seir, which were come against Judah; and they were SMITTEN. 2 Chron 20: 22

Here is how the DSS defines the AMBUSHMENT

[The Rule of the Trumpets: the trumpets] of alarm for all their service for the [ . . . ] for their commissioned men, 17[by tens of thousands and thousands and hundreds and fifties] and tens. Upon the t[rumpets . . . ]

[ . . . ] )8[ . . . ] 19[ . . . which ] 20 [,, . they shall write . . . the trumpets of Col. 3 the battle formations, and the trumpets for assembling them when the gates of the war are opened so that the infantry might advance, the trumpets for the signal of the SLAIN, the trumpets of 2 the AMBUSH, the trumpets of PURSUIT when the enemy is DEFEATED, and the trumpets of reassembly when the BATTLE returns.

On the trumpets for their campaigns they shall write,

"The mighty deeds of God to SCATTER the enemy and to put all those who hate justice to flight and a WITHDRAWAL of mercy from all who hate God."

But if they establish an AMBUSH for a battle formation, the three ambushing formations shall [stay at a dist]ance and not ris[e up . . . ] '3 [ . . . ] the battle.

When they [h]ear the trumpets of ALARM, the [infantry]men [shall begin to bring down the guilty casualties. Then the AMBUH shall rise up from its place and also order its [battle form]ations [ . . . 3

14 The reassembly: from the right and left, from be[hind and before, the f]our direction[s . . . ] in the battles of ANNIHILATION.
----Then the priests shall blow on the six trumpets of the SLAIN a sharp staccato note to direct the battle,
----and the Levites and all the people with rams' horns shall blow a great BATTLE ALARM together in order to MELT the heart of the enemy.

MUSIC WAS ALWAYS HATE FOR THE ENEMY: TO TRIUMPH OVER THEM. That is what is going on in apostate churches of Christ.

LOVE tells you the truth: There is no MUSIC word used in the Bible of Spiritual worship. ALL musical terms or names of instruments are derived from EVIL OR POLLUTION and are ultimately TAUGHT BY SATAN to keep people from LISTENING to the WORDS OF CHRIST. If you listen to the silly PRAISE SONGS you will be able to HEAR that it is not JESUS you are giving heed to NOR are you SPEAKING OR PREACHING TO ONE ANOTHER with "that which is written, the Word of Christ or the Spirit."

Worship in a PHYSICAL SENSE means to fall in utter SILENCE and REVERENCE on your face. You CANNOT worship while flinging your arms and playing music. You are TRIUMPHING OVER others PREVENTING their worship in THEIR spirit into which singers and players CANNOT GO: it is the THRONE ROOM where God meet us ONE PRIEST at a time.

David MEDITATED or MUSED in his heart when he worshiped. Jesus therefore said that God ONLY SEEKS those who worship in the PLACE of the human spirit as it GIVES HEED to the Spirit of Truth. The Gerezim and Jerusalem mountains were PLACES. Therefore, worship IN SPIRIT is not the pagan ENTHUS O MANIA or madness as in Corinth. Worship is in the SPIRIT which is a PLACE and not with outward show. Paul said that Christians of the Circumcised WORSHIP GOD IN THE SPIRIT and give no place for the FLESH. Musical worship is FLESH WORSHIP and true worshipers CANNOT worship IN SPIRIT or in the MIND while the children are PIPING still trying to make Christians SING and DANCE which is PAGAN.

For those who are willing to SOW DISCORD and create division all over the world just so they can do what many brag about doing--changing church into a THEATER FOR HOLY ENTERTAINMENT-any rebuttal seems unloving. And I admit that I have no tenderness in my heart for people I see as historically destructive sowers of discord. In the Book of Enoch, Jubiless etc., God reserves JUDGMENT specificially for those who let Satan lead them into SEDUCING God's holy people using music. I am not that unkind.

Ken Sublett
I had hoped that someone could read the CLEAR passages about the FALL of Israel through music and grasp that in every instance a MUSICAL term or name of a MUSICAL INSTRUMENT has roots in Satan, grinding the enemy into a fine powder, warfare or prostitution. No, the temple singers NEVER entered into the TYPE OF THE CHURCH.

Rather than respond, the pro musical types define refuting FALSE TEACHING as a proof of a lack of love. Since they have the GIFT OF DISCERNMENT it may be time to look at the claim that the INSTRUMENTALISTS pervert every Scripture and claim a DIRECT INPUT FROM THE HOLY SPIRIT PERSON as their authority to REPUDIATE THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST Who inspired the entire Bible

=====================================

Farmer's Branch Church of Christ: The leadership believes that MUSIC lifted up in praise to God and His Son is an outpouring from the heart of a person FILLED with the HOLY SPIRIT.
----This offering can be vocal, instrumental or both together.
---This conclusion is the result of much prayer and considerable study of the Scriptures on this matter.
=================================================================================

Contradiction ALL KNOWN historical opinion until the FAMILY OF GOD was invented probably by H. Leo Boles and propagated by the Gospel Advocate in about 1942, THERE WAS LITTLE opinion that God existed as THREE SEPARATED gods with their own particular talent for their own dispensation. John Mark Hicks at Lipscomb gives "credit" to Max Lucado and Rubel Shelly in their INCARNATIONAL THEOLOGY for making this HERESY popular.

I KNOW DIRECTLY OF NO ONE OTHER THAN APOSTATE CHURCHES OF CHRIST WHO CUTS GOD UP LIKE A PECAN PIE.

The most popular "parable" down through church history is that God THINKS a thought, BREATHS out Spirit or wind through his lips as DOUBLE-EDGED SWORDS and expresses HIS WORD which accomplish his WILL. Only one crazy guy in history suggested that God is THREE SEPARATED BEINGS. Their friend suggests that Lucado, Shelly etc. may deny that Christ came FULLY IN THE FLESH. That would be the definition of ANTI-CHRIST.

http://www.piney.com/HSHicksLucadoShelly.html

God is PURE or HOLY SPIRIT in nature. Holy means WHOLLY Spirit without human-like body parts. "Holy" is not a first name. The Spirit in the Bible is the Spirit OF Christ or the Spirit OF God but not a THIRD PERSON. Paul draws up an equation in 1 Cor. 2:

---->The Holy Spirit IS TO GOD
---->What our spirit is to us.
---->The Holy Spirit is the MIND OF CHRIST.
---->Christ is the eternal WORD--the DISCOURSE of God--not the MUSICIAN.

We are body, soul and spirit but we are not TRIPLETS and neither is God.

The FALSE CLAIM that one has ONE THIRD OF GOD literally dwelling in their CARNAL body is PSYCHOLOGICAL VIOLENCE. If they can convince you that the LEADERSHIP is HEARING the voice of the Spirit then they DISCOURAGE you from questioning the holy anointed beings. Rubel Shelly as facilitator of this heresy says that we SHOULD HEAR THE VOICE AUDIBLY.

Spirit was usually PERSONIFIED.

SPIRIT means the mental disposition of a BEING in both Hebrew and Greek. In the ancient world everything had a "spirit." The spirit OF anger, the UNholy spirit of a young man, a SWEET spirit and etc. Only in the sense of a GHOST or DEMON of the dead did they every personify SPIRIT. Shelly identifies the Spirit as a GHOST by identifying him with the German GEIST as in Poltegeist.
=============================================================

THE SPIRIT TO BE USED IN TEACHING (AS SINGING) IS THE WORDS OF CHRIST JESUS.

Take a look at three SINGING passages to see that Paul DOES NOT speak about music but about TEACHING with the revealed Words of Christ. If the leaders are HEARING from the spirit it is not a HOLY SPIRIT but the spirit which motivated all paganism where MUSIC was used and the worshipers were ABUSED in more ways than one.

First look at Ephesians:

Eph 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be FILLED with the SPIRIT;
--Eph 5:19 Speaking (PREACHING) to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody IN YOUR HEART to the Lord;
----Eph 5:20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;
------Eph 5:21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the FEAR OF GOD (one of the SEVEN spirits of God).

Jesus said that worship was ONLY in the human Spirit as it gives attention to the SPIRIT of TRUTH, the Words of Christ.

The same Paul wrote to the Colossians and said that to be FILLED with the SPIRIT is to be FILLED with the WORD OF CHRIST:

----Col 3:16 Let the WORD OF CHRIST dwell in you richly in all wisdom; TEACHING and ADMONISHING one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace IN YOUR HEARTS to the Lord.

The same Paul wrote to the Romans to say that they were COMPETENT to teach one another and that the RESOURCE for teaching can only be THAT WHICH IS WRITTEN:

Romans 15:4 For whatsoever things were WRITTEN AFORETIME were written for our LEARNING (teaching), that we through patience and comfort of the SCRIPTURES might have hope.
--Romans 15:5 Now the God of patience and consolation grant you to be likeminded one toward another ACCORDING to CHRIST Jesus:
----Romans 15:6 That ye may with ONE MIND and ONE MOUTH GLORIFY God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Peter said that THAT WHICH IS WRITTEN was by the SPIRIT OF CHRIST.

--1 PETER 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the SPIRIT of CHRIST which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

John said the same thing:

---Rev 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the TESTIMONY of JESUS: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the SPIRIT of PROPHECY.

That is because Jesus Christ said:

---John 6:63 It is the SPIRIT that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the WORDS that I speak unto you, they are SPIRIT, and they are LIFE.

The MENORAH or seven CANDLESTICKS represents the SPIRIT or the presence of Christ and His Word in each church. This SPIRIT is the spirit OF some form of KNOWLEDGE which dwells in the human SPIRIT.

--Isa 11:1 AND there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a BRANCH shall grow out of his roots:
----Isa 11:2 And the spirit OF the Lord shall REST upon him, the spirit OF WISDOM and UNDERSTANDING, the spirit of COUNSEL and MIGHT, the spirit of KNOWLEDGE and of the FEAR of the Lord;
------Isa 11:3 And shall make him of QUICK UNDERSTANDING (spiritual) in the fear of the Lord: and he shall NOT judge after the SIGHT of his eyes, neither reprove after the HEARING of his EARS:

Of the Lord, Lord Sayers who were "prophesying" which means "making music and going charismatic" Jesus says I DON'T EVEN KNOW YOUR NAME because "spiritual" worship is in the Most Holy Place of the human spirit where God as Spirit accepts our worship in DARKNESS and SILENCE.

DON'T BELIEVE ANYONE SAYING ANYTHING IF THEY CLAIM THE AFRICAN "LITTLE MAN (SPIRIT) LIVES IN THE BIG MAN (ME)" HERESY. THESE PEOPLE DO NOT HAVE THE "SPIRIT" OR "MENTAL DISPOSITION" OF LORD JESUS CHRIST WHO "CAST OUT THE MUSICAL TEAM" MORE OR LESS VIOLENTLY LIKE "DUNG."

See how SPIRIT is personified in the Bible:

http://www.piney.com/HsPersonif.html

http://www.piney.com/HsPersonif2.html

You have a deep problem if you believe that it is UNLOVING to warn you about people who claim to be equal with Jesus Christ by having the SPIRIT dwell in them to instruct them. This repudiates Lord Jesus Christ of whom "the Spirit without measure" meant that He spoke the "WORDS OF GOD" without changing them.

NONE of these people should be able to BLUFF you by claiming that THEIR decisions are the DECISIONS of the Spirit (of Christ) or that THEIR silly praise songs are the result of a HOLY Spirit. It is not TRUTH and my job is to help free you from "BEING A WATCHTOWER SLAVE."

I know when I say this that "when you free people from oppressors they will never forgive you." I fear that the only LOVING thing would be to agree with everyone but THAT would not be the LOVE Jesus poured out often in REBUTTAL and got Himself killed.

History knows NO EXCEPTION to the rule that Satan taught the youth to MAKE MUSIC as a way to seduce them into a life which REJECTED God by rejecting His Words. It NEEDS NO PROVING that singing silly praise songs fabricated out of Voodoo is REJECTING the "Songs" of Lord Jesus Christ.

I await any PROOF that singing with instrumental accompaniment was ever used in the spiritual worship of God AT ANY TIME in the Bible. Until then, ALL of recorded history associates MUSIC as CARNAL manipulation which can have NO connection with worship IN THE HUMAN SPIRIT IN SILENCE AND DARKNESS.

I also await ANY PROOF that INSTRUMENTS were ever used and not ASSOCIATED with telling (or having told) God: "We will not listen to YOUR words."

Until then I stand aquitted of SELECTIVE proof texting or trying to POLICE the church.

Kenneth Sublett
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John Stinson
John Stinson

June 18th, 2003, 7:41 pm #32

Best post I have seen on this entire site. Concise, truthful, to the point and makes a point! Thank you, sir. You do get what being a Christian is about.
I couldn't agree more. Amen! I am not sure why I have spent the past 2 hours reading these posts. It is akin to watching a bad television show; I just keep hoping to find some redeeming quality. Thank you for your post.
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John Stinson
John Stinson

June 18th, 2003, 7:50 pm #33

I had hoped that someone could read the CLEAR passages about the FALL of Israel through music and grasp that in every instance a MUSICAL term or name of a MUSICAL INSTRUMENT has roots in Satan, grinding the enemy into a fine powder, warfare or prostitution. No, the temple singers NEVER entered into the TYPE OF THE CHURCH.

Rather than respond, the pro musical types define refuting FALSE TEACHING as a proof of a lack of love. Since they have the GIFT OF DISCERNMENT it may be time to look at the claim that the INSTRUMENTALISTS pervert every Scripture and claim a DIRECT INPUT FROM THE HOLY SPIRIT PERSON as their authority to REPUDIATE THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST Who inspired the entire Bible

=====================================

Farmer's Branch Church of Christ: The leadership believes that MUSIC lifted up in praise to God and His Son is an outpouring from the heart of a person FILLED with the HOLY SPIRIT.
----This offering can be vocal, instrumental or both together.
---This conclusion is the result of much prayer and considerable study of the Scriptures on this matter.
=================================================================================

Contradiction ALL KNOWN historical opinion until the FAMILY OF GOD was invented probably by H. Leo Boles and propagated by the Gospel Advocate in about 1942, THERE WAS LITTLE opinion that God existed as THREE SEPARATED gods with their own particular talent for their own dispensation. John Mark Hicks at Lipscomb gives "credit" to Max Lucado and Rubel Shelly in their INCARNATIONAL THEOLOGY for making this HERESY popular.

I KNOW DIRECTLY OF NO ONE OTHER THAN APOSTATE CHURCHES OF CHRIST WHO CUTS GOD UP LIKE A PECAN PIE.

The most popular "parable" down through church history is that God THINKS a thought, BREATHS out Spirit or wind through his lips as DOUBLE-EDGED SWORDS and expresses HIS WORD which accomplish his WILL. Only one crazy guy in history suggested that God is THREE SEPARATED BEINGS. Their friend suggests that Lucado, Shelly etc. may deny that Christ came FULLY IN THE FLESH. That would be the definition of ANTI-CHRIST.

http://www.piney.com/HSHicksLucadoShelly.html

God is PURE or HOLY SPIRIT in nature. Holy means WHOLLY Spirit without human-like body parts. "Holy" is not a first name. The Spirit in the Bible is the Spirit OF Christ or the Spirit OF God but not a THIRD PERSON. Paul draws up an equation in 1 Cor. 2:

---->The Holy Spirit IS TO GOD
---->What our spirit is to us.
---->The Holy Spirit is the MIND OF CHRIST.
---->Christ is the eternal WORD--the DISCOURSE of God--not the MUSICIAN.

We are body, soul and spirit but we are not TRIPLETS and neither is God.

The FALSE CLAIM that one has ONE THIRD OF GOD literally dwelling in their CARNAL body is PSYCHOLOGICAL VIOLENCE. If they can convince you that the LEADERSHIP is HEARING the voice of the Spirit then they DISCOURAGE you from questioning the holy anointed beings. Rubel Shelly as facilitator of this heresy says that we SHOULD HEAR THE VOICE AUDIBLY.

Spirit was usually PERSONIFIED.

SPIRIT means the mental disposition of a BEING in both Hebrew and Greek. In the ancient world everything had a "spirit." The spirit OF anger, the UNholy spirit of a young man, a SWEET spirit and etc. Only in the sense of a GHOST or DEMON of the dead did they every personify SPIRIT. Shelly identifies the Spirit as a GHOST by identifying him with the German GEIST as in Poltegeist.
=============================================================

THE SPIRIT TO BE USED IN TEACHING (AS SINGING) IS THE WORDS OF CHRIST JESUS.

Take a look at three SINGING passages to see that Paul DOES NOT speak about music but about TEACHING with the revealed Words of Christ. If the leaders are HEARING from the spirit it is not a HOLY SPIRIT but the spirit which motivated all paganism where MUSIC was used and the worshipers were ABUSED in more ways than one.

First look at Ephesians:

Eph 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be FILLED with the SPIRIT;
--Eph 5:19 Speaking (PREACHING) to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody IN YOUR HEART to the Lord;
----Eph 5:20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;
------Eph 5:21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the FEAR OF GOD (one of the SEVEN spirits of God).

Jesus said that worship was ONLY in the human Spirit as it gives attention to the SPIRIT of TRUTH, the Words of Christ.

The same Paul wrote to the Colossians and said that to be FILLED with the SPIRIT is to be FILLED with the WORD OF CHRIST:

----Col 3:16 Let the WORD OF CHRIST dwell in you richly in all wisdom; TEACHING and ADMONISHING one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace IN YOUR HEARTS to the Lord.

The same Paul wrote to the Romans to say that they were COMPETENT to teach one another and that the RESOURCE for teaching can only be THAT WHICH IS WRITTEN:

Romans 15:4 For whatsoever things were WRITTEN AFORETIME were written for our LEARNING (teaching), that we through patience and comfort of the SCRIPTURES might have hope.
--Romans 15:5 Now the God of patience and consolation grant you to be likeminded one toward another ACCORDING to CHRIST Jesus:
----Romans 15:6 That ye may with ONE MIND and ONE MOUTH GLORIFY God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Peter said that THAT WHICH IS WRITTEN was by the SPIRIT OF CHRIST.

--1 PETER 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the SPIRIT of CHRIST which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

John said the same thing:

---Rev 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the TESTIMONY of JESUS: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the SPIRIT of PROPHECY.

That is because Jesus Christ said:

---John 6:63 It is the SPIRIT that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the WORDS that I speak unto you, they are SPIRIT, and they are LIFE.

The MENORAH or seven CANDLESTICKS represents the SPIRIT or the presence of Christ and His Word in each church. This SPIRIT is the spirit OF some form of KNOWLEDGE which dwells in the human SPIRIT.

--Isa 11:1 AND there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a BRANCH shall grow out of his roots:
----Isa 11:2 And the spirit OF the Lord shall REST upon him, the spirit OF WISDOM and UNDERSTANDING, the spirit of COUNSEL and MIGHT, the spirit of KNOWLEDGE and of the FEAR of the Lord;
------Isa 11:3 And shall make him of QUICK UNDERSTANDING (spiritual) in the fear of the Lord: and he shall NOT judge after the SIGHT of his eyes, neither reprove after the HEARING of his EARS:

Of the Lord, Lord Sayers who were "prophesying" which means "making music and going charismatic" Jesus says I DON'T EVEN KNOW YOUR NAME because "spiritual" worship is in the Most Holy Place of the human spirit where God as Spirit accepts our worship in DARKNESS and SILENCE.

DON'T BELIEVE ANYONE SAYING ANYTHING IF THEY CLAIM THE AFRICAN "LITTLE MAN (SPIRIT) LIVES IN THE BIG MAN (ME)" HERESY. THESE PEOPLE DO NOT HAVE THE "SPIRIT" OR "MENTAL DISPOSITION" OF LORD JESUS CHRIST WHO "CAST OUT THE MUSICAL TEAM" MORE OR LESS VIOLENTLY LIKE "DUNG."

See how SPIRIT is personified in the Bible:

http://www.piney.com/HsPersonif.html

http://www.piney.com/HsPersonif2.html

You have a deep problem if you believe that it is UNLOVING to warn you about people who claim to be equal with Jesus Christ by having the SPIRIT dwell in them to instruct them. This repudiates Lord Jesus Christ of whom "the Spirit without measure" meant that He spoke the "WORDS OF GOD" without changing them.

NONE of these people should be able to BLUFF you by claiming that THEIR decisions are the DECISIONS of the Spirit (of Christ) or that THEIR silly praise songs are the result of a HOLY Spirit. It is not TRUTH and my job is to help free you from "BEING A WATCHTOWER SLAVE."

I know when I say this that "when you free people from oppressors they will never forgive you." I fear that the only LOVING thing would be to agree with everyone but THAT would not be the LOVE Jesus poured out often in REBUTTAL and got Himself killed.

History knows NO EXCEPTION to the rule that Satan taught the youth to MAKE MUSIC as a way to seduce them into a life which REJECTED God by rejecting His Words. It NEEDS NO PROVING that singing silly praise songs fabricated out of Voodoo is REJECTING the "Songs" of Lord Jesus Christ.

I await any PROOF that singing with instrumental accompaniment was ever used in the spiritual worship of God AT ANY TIME in the Bible. Until then, ALL of recorded history associates MUSIC as CARNAL manipulation which can have NO connection with worship IN THE HUMAN SPIRIT IN SILENCE AND DARKNESS.

I also await ANY PROOF that INSTRUMENTS were ever used and not ASSOCIATED with telling (or having told) God: "We will not listen to YOUR words."

Until then I stand aquitted of SELECTIVE proof texting or trying to POLICE the church.

Kenneth Sublett
I have actually visited Farmer's Branch services (the non-instrumental services) the past month. Never before have I been to a place more full of love and filled with worship.

And the body there is growing!! Not just attritution as church members move from congregation to congregation, but baptizing people who don't know God. God is at work in that church and adding to the number those who are being saved.

I appreciate some of the insight on this website. I haev seen others like this one. However, I have never seen a group of more ineffective ramblings, that claim to be arguments. Most of the posts were so disorganized and confusing (what is up with that crazy font!) that I had a migraine just trying to ascertain what point was intended.
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Rene
Rene

June 19th, 2003, 12:08 am #34

I have been going thru this site and frankly see more bitterness than what it is that a Christian should be known by - love.

Who is this person that set himself up as an 'authority'??

Why would one consider his views over those that actually are within the congregation? At best, his 'information' is second hand - gossip is the word that I would use.
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Kenneth Sublett
Kenneth Sublett

June 19th, 2003, 12:43 am #35

I have actually visited Farmer's Branch services (the non-instrumental services) the past month. Never before have I been to a place more full of love and filled with worship.

And the body there is growing!! Not just attritution as church members move from congregation to congregation, but baptizing people who don't know God. God is at work in that church and adding to the number those who are being saved.

I appreciate some of the insight on this website. I haev seen others like this one. However, I have never seen a group of more ineffective ramblings, that claim to be arguments. Most of the posts were so disorganized and confusing (what is up with that crazy font!) that I had a migraine just trying to ascertain what point was intended.
When the Word was spoken the first time Jesus told the Apostles that parables had revealed truth "from the foundation of the world." He said that TRUTH does not belong in the hands specificially of the SACRIFICIAL AND MUSICAL temple staff. Let's see if you can grasp the difference between HUMAN UNTRUTH and what Scripture says. Isaiah 48 shows that God did not intend for the TRUTH to get into the hands of the TRUTH SELLERS.

CREDO:

Farmer's Branch Church of Christ: "The leadership believes that music lifted up in praise to God and His Son is an outpouring from the heart of a person filled with the Holy Spirit.

This offering can be vocal, instrumental or both together.

This conclusion is the result of much prayer and considerable study of the Scriptures on this matter.
====================

Jesus said that the SPIRIT and LIFE was in HIS words which He never delivered musically because He was prophesied to be assaulted by MUSICIANS and crucified.

The concept of a separated HOLY SPIRIT which informs Farmers Branch repudiates the views of all of history including trinitarians. The Restoration Movement was consistent in gagging at the idea of THREE PERSONS. The new HERESY has been popularized by Max Lucado and Rubel Shelly.

Too bad that they don't know that the Levitical "musicians" helped the Priests survive the blood and dung while sacrificing TYPES of Jesus Christ. Isn't it interesting that when the MUSICAL WORSHIP TEAM tried to AID Jesus in doing His Spiritual work, He cast them out more or less violently as one casts out dung. It's true

Jesus never said "I will build my church." He said, "I will build my ekklesia or synagogue." Now the synagogue or "church in the wilderness" was for the instruction of the people. The triumph over was outlawed: It was "playing instruments and making a joyful noise before the Lord." It was not worship but the Warriors Panic song. The Farmer's branch produces panic in the "audience" and may even contribute to premature birth if science is true.

The people's "congregation" was quarantined from the temple where the musical "hard bongage" sacrificed tens of thousands of animals. The warrior Levites "made noise but not music." No singer or player could ever enter into the Holy Place as a carnal type of the church or body of Christ without being executed: even to clean out the garbage.

It was prophesied and fulfilled that Judas and the same warrior musicians would do the same thing to Jesus. But Jesus did not stay SLAIN but entered into Heaven itself as the Most Holy Place to offer His blood. The Holy Place typified the church or SCHOOL OF THE BIBLE while the Most Holy Place typified the THRONE ROOM. Jesus said that worship can ONLY happen in the PLACE of the human SPIRIT or mind. And Paul said that rather than EXTERNAL, CEREMONIAL worship, the circumcised Jews worshiped God IN THE SPIRIT. The Spirit is opposed to the Flesh. IN SPIRIT does not mean enraptured or "standing outside of self."

Romans 15 defines a NON DIVISIVE assembly as one which "glorifies God with one voice" and teaching "that which has been written." Of course, that was written by Christ the Spirit. Romans 10 defines the MUSICAL IDOLATRY at Mount Sinai where they rose up to PLAY. This musical idolatry just after the Covenant of Grace was such a horrible offense that God, then and there according to Stephen, sentenced the nation to captivity and death and the WORSHIP OF THE STARRY HOST. That included the MUSICAL IDOLATRY condemned by Amos 5, 6 and Isaiah 5. Chiun was Saturn whose Chaldee number is 666.

Therefore, it is no surprise that Romans 14 defines a DISCORDED ASSEMBLY where three groups had a charismatic (musical) background. Paul then prescribed a SYNAGOGUE OF CHRIST. Because Christ died to remove the DOCTORS OF THE LAW as the BURDEN LADERS there could be no "spiritual anxiety created by religious rituals." His REST was relief from religious rituals which ignorance imposes on people by PROFESSIONAL Doctors of the Law whom Jesus fired and Paul deprived of a WAGE.

--"WE then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to PLEASE ourselves. Rom 15:1

PLEASE IS: Aresko (g700) ar-es'-ko; prob. from 142 (through the idea of EXCITING EMOTIONS)

Were your EMOTIONS EXCITED? Seems so much that SCRIPTURE has little meaning. That TAKES AWAY that for which Christ died. Did it attract lots of people? Ancient paganism as the ONLY place for musical rituals could show you how to double your attendance within a month. Christianity rests on a SCANDAL and "Christians" will be despised and rejected of men. Were your's applauded?

-----AIRO (g142) ah'ee-ro; a prim. verb; to LIFT; by impl. to take up or AWAY; fig. to RAISE THE VOICE, KEEP IN SUSPENSE the MIND

Did anyone RAISE THEIR VOICE? Jesus didn't. He stood up to read the Bible and then had the uncommon decency to sit down and DIALOG. The word is not PREACH but discuss. There is no role for PREACHERS in a faithful church of Christ: only evangelists. Did you help them BUY theirs. Did you get to be part of the BODY? Thought not.

Did the MUSICIANS (temple sacrificial music) raise their VOICES and their HANDS? Sure. They know that if they are going to MAKE THE CHURCH GROW they are going to have to give you a DRUG HIGH with music. Did they make you FEEL spiritual? Sure, but it is a SCAM. They are mainlining endorphins or natural morphine to give you a DRUG HIGH. Feel good? Did the feeling last. No. They damaged many who went out Monday with a drug hangover. Some evidence indicates that drugs created by the EXCITEMENT and high decivel level and complex harmony can send women to the hospital for a premature birth. Do they care? No. More "audience" means more money.

Jesus came to give REST which is the opposite of what we too often see as worship but it rarely gives us real satisfaction. The laded burden which fits Paul's idea and which Jesus died to remove is the Greek:

Phortizo (g5412) for-tid'-zo; from 5414; to LOAD up.. figurative to OVERBURDEN with CEREMONIAL or SPIRITUAL ANXIETY.

That repudiates Lord Jesus Christ Who himself was AFFLICTED with Warriors Making 'music.'

The Sabath was not a day of worship but of REST. Most pagan religions held their 'worship' on the Sabbath which began in Babylon so that THE GOD'S AGENTS could rest while the congregation paid the Bill. The Lord's Day was practiced because the PAGAN SUN WORSHIPERS would hold their worship on Sunday. Christians could meet on the Lord's Day to keep them away from both the pagan Sabbatarians and the Sun worshipers. Sabbath worship is the prophesied end-time Babylon worship with MUSIC (Re. 18).

You cannot interpret the Bible by attendance, sexual-like FEELINGS or how many you baptized most likely with the Baptist FAITH ONLY baptism which originated in 1525.

It is a fact that MUSIC disables the rational (spiritul) discerning part of the brain and just gulps down any untruth flowing from the musicians singing THEIR OWN songs in violation of a direct command. Sorry, I cannot do 15 second sound bytes: you may need remedial reading.

Ken Sublett
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John Stinson
John Stinson

June 20th, 2003, 7:02 pm #36

"The Farmer's branch produces panic in the "audience" and may even contribute to premature birth if science is true."


That might be one of the most hilarious things I have ever read in my life. You lost all credibility in my mind with that statement.
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Kenneth Sublett
Kenneth Sublett

June 21st, 2003, 6:14 pm #37

You can begin with fallen Satan dubbed Lucifer (Latin) or Zoe and end in Revelation 18 and you will not find a SHRED of evidence which DOES NOT implicate music with destructive results. What YOU hear is based on your level of addiction which does not give you the kick.

All of the evidence in the Bible and secular contemporary writings saw music as the weapon of Satan to bleed off worship to his agents or his/her self. If you FEEL spiritual as a result of the perfected complex harmony then rest assured that they are rubbing your sensitive spots all over your body. They are HURTING you and peddling it as the HOLY SPIRIT.

http://www.piney.com/MuTimeBrain.html

Too much laughing is also a symptom. Beside you are violating the the practice of Christ and the command of Paul which OUTLAWS the creation of excitement during 'church' worships ONLY to the extent that it "glorifies God with one voice" speaking "that which is written." Church is SYNAGOGUE or school of the bible and the "church in the wilderness" or synagogue outlawed instruments and 'making a joyful noise before the lord' becaus that was the warrior's PANIC practice. I say that the professional music is defeating the purpose for the assembly and hiring a MUSICIAN to "preside over the flock" to teach it silly erotic praise songs is just about terminal. God will get rid of both according to Revelation 18 and the lamb comes with a rod.

I might be wrong but you guys WILL NOT find anything positive to say about music related to comming into God's presence. This is why those who have set out to sow discord either don't speak from the Bible or lie about it. Sure, postmodernism does not see that as wrong.

Ken
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JD
JD

June 24th, 2003, 1:39 am #38

kenny, oh your so vain, you probably think this song's....opps, I forget, you think all songs are VAIN.

Do you REALLY think you are having an impact? I think your various ramblings are completely unintelligable...and therefore meaningless.

NO ONE at Farmer's Branch Church is LISTENING. You are at a wailing WALL with no one to WAIL against.

JD
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Moselle
Moselle

June 24th, 2003, 5:22 am #39

You can begin with fallen Satan dubbed Lucifer (Latin) or Zoe and end in Revelation 18 and you will not find a SHRED of evidence which DOES NOT implicate music with destructive results. What YOU hear is based on your level of addiction which does not give you the kick.

All of the evidence in the Bible and secular contemporary writings saw music as the weapon of Satan to bleed off worship to his agents or his/her self. If you FEEL spiritual as a result of the perfected complex harmony then rest assured that they are rubbing your sensitive spots all over your body. They are HURTING you and peddling it as the HOLY SPIRIT.

http://www.piney.com/MuTimeBrain.html

Too much laughing is also a symptom. Beside you are violating the the practice of Christ and the command of Paul which OUTLAWS the creation of excitement during 'church' worships ONLY to the extent that it "glorifies God with one voice" speaking "that which is written." Church is SYNAGOGUE or school of the bible and the "church in the wilderness" or synagogue outlawed instruments and 'making a joyful noise before the lord' becaus that was the warrior's PANIC practice. I say that the professional music is defeating the purpose for the assembly and hiring a MUSICIAN to "preside over the flock" to teach it silly erotic praise songs is just about terminal. God will get rid of both according to Revelation 18 and the lamb comes with a rod.

I might be wrong but you guys WILL NOT find anything positive to say about music related to comming into God's presence. This is why those who have set out to sow discord either don't speak from the Bible or lie about it. Sure, postmodernism does not see that as wrong.

Ken
Satanic Worship as follows...

When the music fades, all is stripped away
and I simply come.
Longing just to bring, something that's of worth,
that will bless your heart.

I'll bring you more than a song
because a song in itself, is not what you have required.
You search much deeper within,
through the way things appear,
You're looking into my heart.

I'm coming back to the heart of worship
Because it's all about You
It's all about You, Jesus
I'm sorry Lord for the thing I've made it.
It's all about You
It's all about You, Jesus.

------------------------------------------------

This is the air I breathe
This is the air I breathe
Your Holy Spirit, living in me.

This is my daily bread
This is my daily bread
Your Blessed Word, spoken for me.

And I
am desperate for you.
And I
am lost without you...

---------------------------------------------

Hungry, I come to You
For I know You satisfy.
I am empty but I know
Your love does not run dry.

So I wait for you
And I wait for you

I'm falling on my knees
offering all of me
Jesus, You're all this heart
Is living for.

Hungry, I run to You
For Your arms are open wide.
I am weary but I know
Your touch restores my life.

So I wait for you
And I wait for you

I'm falling on my knees
offering all of me
Jesus, You're all this heart
Is living for.

If singing and truly meaning these words means that I am not really praising God, then please tell me what is. If having a piano, a couple of guitars, and some other "contemporary" instruments accompanying me while my heart cries out to God through the medium of these songs is of the devil, then I am condemned.
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Karen
Karen

July 31st, 2003, 1:26 pm #40

Patsy,

Thanks for your well-thought and nicely worded response. I appreciate that though we disagree, that you keep your thoughts civil.

You did write something that troubled me. I will try to reciprocate your respectful post by doing the same (who knows, maybe we'll start a trend), and hopefully, some intelligent, relevant discussion can come out of this. I'm not looking to pick a fight, I just want to have some honest dialogue.

You said something to the effect of "all you need is love" not being a Biblically based philosphy. I agree that you need more than love, but if we are not operating out of love, then our actions are not worth anything. To act on love is the most Christ-like thing we can as believers in an unbelieveing world. I'm going to include some scriptures here to support what I'm saying...

Lev. 19:18
"You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the sons of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself; I am the LORD. "

Prov. 10:12
"Hatred stirs up strife, But love covers all transgressions."

Matt. 5:44
"But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you"

Matt. 19:19
"HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER; and YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."

John 13:34
"A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another."

John 15:17
"This I command you, that you love one another."

Romans 12:10
"Be devoted to one another in brotherly love; give preference to one another in honor"

Romans 13:8
"Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law."

1 Cor. 16:14
"Let all that you do be done in love."

Gal. 5:6
"For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love."

Phil. 2:1-2
"Therefore if there is any encouragement in Christ, if there is any consolation of love, if there is any fellowship of the Spirit, if any affection and compassion, make my joy complete by being of the same mind, maintaining the same love, united in spirit, intent on one purpose."

Col 3:14
"Beyond all these things put on love, which is the perfect bond of unity."

1 Tim. 1:5
"But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith."

Heb. 13:1
"Let love of the brethren continue."

1 John 3:11
"For this is the message which you have heard from the beginning, that we should love one another"

Patsy, you and I can disagree on clapping, praise teams, instruments, and other things, but the Kindgom can't afford to have believers disagreeing on the centrality of love to our faith and actions.

Love is the essence of our faith, and when it all comes down to it, all we need as the Church is love. Everything else springs out of this. True doctrine, evangelism, worship, teaching, they all flow out of this basic principle modeled to us by Christ.

I'd love to hear your thoughts so we can discuss it further.

Mr. Sublett, I have kept my thoughts quite concise and have not rambled. I have kept the source of my comments to NOTHING BUT scripture. If you choose to reply, please do the same. Your thoughts that come from Greek mythology and other websites have no bearing on any of these conversations, and quite frankly, make no sense.


I attended your church on Mother's Day 2002. I came away feeling that I had not worshipped God at all. I had attended a well orchestrated play. Yes, you showed a lot of love during the service, but I wanted to hear God's word preached. I did not want to see babies dedicated, hear hand clapping, or see everyone raising their hands and swaying during songs.
I did not need the lights to be dimmed during a certain part of a prayer to make me feel closer to God.
I didn't need 4 to 5 people standing up with microphones to help me sing better. I feel sorry for all the people that are going to that church and think they're doing the right thing. I feel sorry for the people who are going to that church knowing that they are teaching wrong.
Please, if you're going to continue worshipping in this way, at least take the name Church of Christ off your sign. If you do, you'll at least keep a faithful member from attending your church and missing worshipping in truth and spirit at a true Church of Christ.

Thanks.
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