Faith is . . .

Faith is . . .

Joined: May 21st, 2016, 4:55 pm

May 21st, 2016, 6:22 pm #1

What is faith?

Faith is . . .

Faith is . . . belief without sufficient evidence and reason.
If a belief is based on insufficient evidence and reason, then any further conclusions drawn from the belief will at best be of questionable value. Believing on the basis of insufficient evidence and reason cannot point one toward the truth. How can you have sufficient evidence and reason for your supernatural deity?____________________________________________________________________
Faith is . . . believing something anyway.
Faith is . . . an irrational leap over probabilities.
Faith is . . . a knowledge claim.
Conclusions one comes to as the result of an epistemological process are knowledge claims.
Faith is . . . a failed epistemology. It is an unreliable method to come to true knowledge.
Faith is . . . not hope. Faith is a false knowledge claim.
When the faithful say, “Jesus walked on water,” they are not saying they hope Jesus walked on water, but rather are claiming Jesus did walk on water.
Faith is . . . an extraordinary claim. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
Assume an historical Jesus existed and was crucified, and that his corpse was placed in a tomb. Assume also that eyewitness accounts were accurate, and days later, the tomb was empty.
One can believe the body arose from the dead and ascended to heaven, one can believe aliens brought aliens brought the body back to life, or one can believe an spirit trapped in the tomb merged with the corpse and animated it.
All of these are extraordinary claims. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Belief in any of the claims would require faith because there’s insufficient evidence to justify any one of these particular options. Belief in any of these claims would also disregard other, far more likely possibilities – for example, that the corpse was stolen, hidden, or moved.
If one claims knowledge either in the absence of evidence, or when a claim is contradicted by evidence, then the word “faith” is used. “Believing something anyway” is an accurate definition of the term “faith”.
Dig Deeper: Bart Ehrman, “How Jesus Became God”.
Faith is . . . pretending to know things that you do not know.
Is pretending to know things that you don’t know beneficial for you?_____________________________
Is it good to pretend to know things that you don’t know about your deity?_________________________
Will your life have any meanings if you stop pretending to know things that you do not know?__________
Is pretending to know things that you do not know true for you?_________________________________
Why should people stop pretending to know things they don’t know if it helps them get through the day?
___________________________________________________________________________________
Should we teach children to pretend to know things that they don’t know?_________________________
Should you have the freedom to pretend to know things that you don’t know?______________________
Would society devolve morally if everybody stopped pretending to know things that they don’t know?___
Is your faith (belief without evidence) beneficial for you?______________________________________
If so, then how?______________________________________________________________________
Do you have faith (belief without evidence) in your deity?______________________________________
Is it good to have faith (belief without evidence) in your deity?___________________________________
Would your life have meaning without faith (belief without evidence)?_____________________________ If everyone abandoned their faith (belief without evidence), would society devolve morally?___________
Why should people stop having faith (belief without evidence) if it helps them get through the day?_____
Faith is . . . pretending to know things that one don’t know.
The “pretending to know things that one don’t know” pandemic hurts us all. Believing things on the basis of something other than evidence and reason causes people to misconstrue what’s good for them and what’s good for their communities. Those who believe on the basis of insufficient evidence create external conditions based upon what thy think is in their best interest, but this is actually counterproductive.
The less one relies on reason and evidence to form conclusions, the more arbitrary the conclusion. In aggregate, conclusions that result from a lack of evidence can have incredibly dangerous consequences.
Faith is . . . an unreliable and a failed method to come to knowledge and truth.
Faith . . . cannot adjudicate between competing claims.
Faith . . . does not have a built in corrective mechanism.
That is, faith claims have no way to be corrected, altered, revised or modified.
Faith. . . cannot steer one away from falsehood and toward truth.
The only way to figure out which claims about the world are likely true, and which are likely false, is through reason and evidence, not by faith. There is no other way.
Faith . . . cannot pass the “Outsider Test”.
“Faith causes us to distort or even ignore objective data as such we often ignore all evidence that contradicts what we want to believe” – John W. Loftus, The Outsiders Test for Faith (2013)
When people are presented with evidence that contradicts their faith, or are shown that they don’t have sufficient evidence and reason to warrant their faith or learn that the Bible is not worth crap or learn that there’s a contradiction in there faith (the trees could not come before Adam, Genesis 1:11-12 and 1:26- 27, and after Adam, Genesis 2:4-9) or come to understand that their reasoning is in error, they seem to cling to their faith (non-sense) more tenaciously. That is just plain crazy and stupid.
Are you ready to become self-aware of your ignorance?_______________________________________
Are you ready to start thinking like a scientist?_______________________________________________
Are you ready to learn the truth, the real truth? ______________________________________________
Can your faith pass the “Outsider Test”? ___________________________________________________
Faith . . . is slowly falling into disrepute.
The forces of unreason are diminishing in number.
Faith . . . taints or at worst removes our curiosity about the world, what we should value, and what type of life we should lead.
Faith. . . is the denial of observation so that belief can be preserved.
Science. . . adjusts it’s views (belief) based on what’s observed.
Faith . . . replaces wonder with epistemological arrogance disguised as false humility.
Faith . . . immutably alters the starting conditions for inquiry by uprooting a hunger to know and sowing a warrantless confidence.
“All men by nature desire to know” Aristotle (Book 1 of Metaphysics)
Faith . . . is by definition the belief in something regardless or even in spite of evidence.
"A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence" David Hume
Faith. . . has evolved mechanisms to shield it from analysis.
Faith. . . is not a virtue.
Faith . . . fly’s you into buildings.
Science fly’s you to the moon.
Faith . . . may not move mountains, but you should see what it does to buildings.
Faith . . . that is asserted without proof can be demised without proof.
Faith . . . Having faith in something just because you fear the consequences of not having faith in it is no reason to have faith in it.
Faith . . . is a delusion. When one person is deluded, it is called insanity, when many people are deluded, it is called religion.
Faith . . . means not wanting to know what is true.
Faith . . . is nothing more than the license religious people give one another to keep believing when reasons fail.
Faith . . . means making a virtue out of not thinking. It’s nothing to brag about. And those who preach faith and enable and elevate it are our intellectual slaveholders, keeping mankind in a bondage to fantasy and nonsense that has spawned and justified so much lunacy and destruction. Religion is dangerous because it allows human beings who don’t have all the answers to think that they do.
Faith . . . When there is evidence, no one speaks of faith. We do not speak of faith that two and two are four or that the earth is round. We only speak of faith when we wish to substitute emotion for evidence.
Faith . . . is a device of self-delusion, a sleight of hand done with words and emotions founded on any irrational notion that can be dreamed up.
Faith . . . is the attempt to coerce truth to surrender to whim. In simple terms, it is trying to breathe life into a lie by trying to outshine reality with the beauty of wishes.
Faith . . . is the refuge of fools, the ignorant and the deluded, not of thinking, rational men.
Faith . . . is nonsense.
Dig Deeper:
Sam Harris, The End of Faith (Harris,2004)
John W. Loftus, The Outsider Test For Faith (Loftus, 2013)
Michael Shermer, The Believing Brain (Shermer, 2011)
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

May 22nd, 2016, 7:43 pm #2

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]What a collection [somewhat unorganized] of definitions of "faith"!!! Who is the source or sources of these definitions? Is the initial post a narrative or a questionnaire or both? What is the premise of the narrative?

[OK ... this is the initial response. The discussion has begun!!!][/color]
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

May 22nd, 2016, 9:59 pm #3

Christians are DISCIPLES and disciples are STUDENTS and the resource for the Christian system (distorted by hirelings) is the collection of documents which fairly defines the rise of civilization and the Hebrews and others. Civilization still has not caught up with the book burners and the streets of our cities and the temples of doom selling their own stuff are a DIRECT RESULT of efforts by a Purpose Driven Mass to destroy all of the great epics which formed character and civilization. The Greek, Latin and Hebrew literature defines the meaning of FAITH or faithfulness and making up a list of mocking opinions proves that they have no INTEREST in sifting the literature and they follow the Anti-Christian glory or DOXA by resting on their own "imationation" which is usually destructive but good enough to be considered a "prophet" worthy of hire.

We LIVE BY FAITH and not by SIGHT: these people need to PROVE to us that they have a brain. Their list does not qualify and I suggest a time and place where we can open them up.

Jesus came for those OF TRUTH and OF FAITH and those who challenge him do not have the MARK He is looking for.

Faith is trusting that when the wives of Sam Harris, John W. Loftus or Michael Shermer say that they are going out with the girls they are going out with the girls.

Faith is that when Sam Harris, John W. Loftus or Michael Shermer Sell Their anti-learning they can get rich, famous and invited to all of what Ezekiel called "workshops of evil."

Faith is Sam Harris, John W. Loftus or Michael Shermer thinking that they are cute but most of the people who step on their brakes by faith will consider them a laughingstock.

We, at this late date, believe the evidence of those claiming to be eye-- or ear-- witnesses that George Washington. Our faith is harmless unless we write fiction about old George.

or are shown that they don’t have sufficient evidence and reason to warrant their faith or learn that the Bible is not worth crap or learn that there’s a contradiction in there faith (the trees could not come before Adam, Genesis 1:11-12 and 1:26- 27, and after Adam, Genesis 2:4-9)

They may not know that there are TWO accounts or more: The same motif is used of the Flood and the crossing of the red sea and the making void and empty of the Jewish people.

Christianity is based on the prophets and Jesus identified Scripture as the prophets promising Messiah Who would come to destroy temples and put clergy out of work. The Scribes who wrote songs and sermons He called hypocrites. I suggest that we not follow the red herrings down a gopher hole because those who pick out passages have never read the whole story and are therefore just venting their ire: The Book of Enoch would identify them as having slipped over the edge and are unable to have faith in anything not even their faithlessness.

Maybe we should just stick to the text?

Moses wrote Genesis when the Jews blew away their land promise and were sentenced to captivity and death. You are like a fella who watched a brain surgery on TV and applied for a job as a brain surgeon. No one should play Devil's Advocate without having read the Clay Tablets which Moses inverts.

The Elohim speaks of the Babylonian account which Moses uses to try to prevent the exodus people from getting involved with the Egyptian-Babylonian-Canaanite Baalism.

Gen. 1:1 In the beginning [or first of all]
God [Elohims] created [cast down so that] the heaven and the earth.
Gen. 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [ignorance] was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit [wind] of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Gen. 1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth [sprout] grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.


Jehovah-Elohim in the second account, is said to be the ONLY TRUE ELOHIM. The prophets DENY the creation especially of the Babylons which became the theology of the Jews whom God abandoned.

Is. 45:18 For thus saith the LORD<.b> that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, <b>he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.</b>


No one should be troubled that we are provided with the WORLD ORDER'S creation and the PROPHET'S account. If you pick out "contradictions" you will miss the great epics defining the good, bad and ugly. Jesus warned that truth had been hidden in parables from the foundation of the world from the Scribes and Pharisees who wrote and sold their own "scriptures" because the Prophets command US not to pay for the Free Water of the World." Atheists are simply one side of the coin and self-originated religionists are the other side.

Many of the people claimed and undoubtedly were correct that they were autochthonous or natives. The Garden of Eden was a colony and the ADAM in contrast to the ADAMAS race and Eve were immediately attacked by those who claimed that the fruitful places which may have been pretty rare belonged to them. You will notice that the creation by Jehovah the only true Elohim made those NOT OF THE WORLD into Living Souls.

This is consistent with the chronology of the Sumerians who destroyed the quiet hunter-gathering civilization and imposed a dominant priesthood and prophets who were FREE FROM WORK so that they could go into their mad "praise singing" and claim that they made the rains to fall and the animals to multiply. The Cain story is again the settled agriculture towns who collected all of the free animals and sold them back to the Sethites a pastoral people.

Genesis 2 is speaking of a REcreation of a destroyed people and land because Jehovah-Elohim did NOT MESS UP the fruitful places. We are in the process of washing our fruitful places into the oceans.

Genesis 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created <font color="#FF0000">[Again, Bara can me to totally cast down rather than created out of nothing>
in the day that the LORD GOD MADE the earth [not the globe but a FRUITFUL PLACE on dry ground] and the heavens,
Gen. 2:5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, [FRUITFUL PLACE] and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
Gen. 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Gen. 2:8 And the LORD God PLANTED a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
Gen. 2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.


Jesus spoke of the "Jews" who were not Israelites as OF THE WORLD and He would not even pray for them. John called them a RACE OF VIPERS and would not baptize them."

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