efforts better served ...

efforts better served ...

Joined: February 27th, 2006, 10:01 pm

June 5th, 2006, 11:30 am #1

I have been reading a lot of the threads on this board
and I have a few comments that I hope will be considered.
From my understanding the Madison Church of Christ went
through some changes some years back that have upset many
of the existing members. Most of the changes have to do with
style of worship while maintaining the acapella heritage.
First, I want to say I think that how they went about it is
wrong and un Christ-like. But it appears that the church has
reached a point of no return. Since we are stewards of the
resources that God supplies I believe that it would be better
served to let loose of the Madison congregation and start
afresh with a new congregation and I hope that many people
will come to know the lord through the efforts of the people
who are dissatisfied with the current Madison church. As much
as it hurts emotionally I believe that it would be better for
everyone involved. I do not see any value in putting other
christians down simply because they worship different than
how you prefer to worship. Your's is not the first to suffer
a church split and you are not the only church that has
experienced a church split. I say get on with life and start
a new congregation and hopefully it will be better that the old
one.
The second thing I want to address is the accusation of the
"change-agents" being false teachers. Just because there is
a difference of opinions on worship style doesn't mean they
are false teachers. In my view, the most important thing
to believe is that salvation is through a personal relationship
with God through his Son, Jesus Christ. I can find no reference
in the Bible where salvation is determined by the correctness
of the church doctrine of your congregation. I believe that
some people on this board believe that. "As long as I attend
a church of Christ I'll get to heaven" many people will
be in for a rude awakening with that type of thinking."
Here is another shocker- "There will be people outside of
the churches of Christ who do have a personal realtionship
with God and will be in heaven and many members of the churches
of Christ will not enter in because God will say ' I never
KNEW you'". Who made the people on this board the doctine
police ? Have you all considered thAt you may be totally
mistaken in how you interpret the scriptures. Maybe a little
of humility will make you all better christians.
In closing, I believe that your efforts will be better served
in starting a new congregation and just let go of the Madison
Church of Christ abd let God be the judge in their actions.

Thank you,
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Donnie Cruz
Donnie Cruz

June 8th, 2006, 7:31 am #2

<font color=indigo size=3 face=times new roman>We appreciate your taking the time to read many of the threads on this board and your interest in trying to understand the circumstances surrounding the upheaval that occurred at the Madison church in 2001.

I tend to agree with you that the congregation has reached a point of no return unless, I believe, there is a drastic change in leadership “personnel” or unless the current leadership is BOTH: (a) willing to accept the error of its ways and (b) ready to rectify its mistakes or restore that which made the congregation great in the past and a light on the hill.

It is a real misunderstanding on anyone’s part to think and believe that this website has been in existence only because of changes that have to do with worship style. The change advocates are hard at work on “transforming” the church into something other than what’s laid out in the New Testament for the sake of “church growth.” This attempt at “church transformation” obviously and intentionally involves and affects our adherence to the doctrine and teachings found in the New Testament for the New Testament church. Therefore, it is very misleading to have the perception that the conflict is all about worship style. NO! It’s not all about the style of worship. YES! Changing worship style is the primary methodology used in the “church growth” scam.

While, perhaps later on, I may be able to address a number of the other issues [personal relationships, the only saved ones, etc.] you brought up, let me just briefly say that this website will remain to meet its objective—i.e., to warn other congregations of a strong possibility that: “The Change Agents Are Coming! The Change Agents Are Coming.” We maintain that the change agents should start their own from scratch—not interfere, intrude, pervert, divert, subvert and divide peaceable congregations. This way you wouldn’t have to suggest that this website should start a new congregation.



Donnie</font>
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Darryl Scott
Darryl Scott

June 8th, 2006, 3:19 pm #3

I have been reading a lot of the threads on this board
and I have a few comments that I hope will be considered.
From my understanding the Madison Church of Christ went
through some changes some years back that have upset many
of the existing members. Most of the changes have to do with
style of worship while maintaining the acapella heritage.
First, I want to say I think that how they went about it is
wrong and un Christ-like. But it appears that the church has
reached a point of no return. Since we are stewards of the
resources that God supplies I believe that it would be better
served to let loose of the Madison congregation and start
afresh with a new congregation and I hope that many people
will come to know the lord through the efforts of the people
who are dissatisfied with the current Madison church. As much
as it hurts emotionally I believe that it would be better for
everyone involved. I do not see any value in putting other
christians down simply because they worship different than
how you prefer to worship. Your's is not the first to suffer
a church split and you are not the only church that has
experienced a church split. I say get on with life and start
a new congregation and hopefully it will be better that the old
one.
The second thing I want to address is the accusation of the
"change-agents" being false teachers. Just because there is
a difference of opinions on worship style doesn't mean they
are false teachers. In my view, the most important thing
to believe is that salvation is through a personal relationship
with God through his Son, Jesus Christ. I can find no reference
in the Bible where salvation is determined by the correctness
of the church doctrine of your congregation. I believe that
some people on this board believe that. "As long as I attend
a church of Christ I'll get to heaven" many people will
be in for a rude awakening with that type of thinking."
Here is another shocker- "There will be people outside of
the churches of Christ who do have a personal realtionship
with God and will be in heaven and many members of the churches
of Christ will not enter in because God will say ' I never
KNEW you'". Who made the people on this board the doctine
police ? Have you all considered thAt you may be totally
mistaken in how you interpret the scriptures. Maybe a little
of humility will make you all better christians.
In closing, I believe that your efforts will be better served
in starting a new congregation and just let go of the Madison
Church of Christ abd let God be the judge in their actions.

Thank you,
”As long as I attend a church of Christ I'll get to heaven" many people will be in for a rude awakening with that type of thinking." Here is another shocker- "There will be people outside of the churches of Christ who do have a personal realtionship with God and will be in heaven and many members of the churches of Christ will not enter in because God will say ' I never KNEW you'".


Please substitute “the church that belongs to Christ” ever where you have used “church of Christ” to help you understand, 1) the correct meaning of “church of Christ”, and the meaning of “church of Christ” to us , and 2) given that meaning, how senseless is the statement, “There will be people outside of the ‘church that belongs to Christ’ who do have a personal relationship with God and will be in heaven and many members of ‘the church that belongs to Christ’ will not enter in because God will say ‘I never KNEW you’”.


I recognize that you have a different understanding of the meaning of “church of Christ” but the actual meaning is “the church that belongs to Christ”. Jesus said “I will build MY church”, any other will not do. I hope this help you to understand our position and defense of the church of Christ.

Darryl
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Joined: February 27th, 2006, 10:01 pm

June 8th, 2006, 4:58 pm #4

<font color=indigo size=3 face=times new roman>We appreciate your taking the time to read many of the threads on this board and your interest in trying to understand the circumstances surrounding the upheaval that occurred at the Madison church in 2001.

I tend to agree with you that the congregation has reached a point of no return unless, I believe, there is a drastic change in leadership “personnel” or unless the current leadership is BOTH: (a) willing to accept the error of its ways and (b) ready to rectify its mistakes or restore that which made the congregation great in the past and a light on the hill.

It is a real misunderstanding on anyone’s part to think and believe that this website has been in existence only because of changes that have to do with worship style. The change advocates are hard at work on “transforming” the church into something other than what’s laid out in the New Testament for the sake of “church growth.” This attempt at “church transformation” obviously and intentionally involves and affects our adherence to the doctrine and teachings found in the New Testament for the New Testament church. Therefore, it is very misleading to have the perception that the conflict is all about worship style. NO! It’s not all about the style of worship. YES! Changing worship style is the primary methodology used in the “church growth” scam.

While, perhaps later on, I may be able to address a number of the other issues [personal relationships, the only saved ones, etc.] you brought up, let me just briefly say that this website will remain to meet its objective—i.e., to warn other congregations of a strong possibility that: “The Change Agents Are Coming! The Change Agents Are Coming.” We maintain that the change agents should start their own from scratch—not interfere, intrude, pervert, divert, subvert and divide peaceable congregations. This way you wouldn’t have to suggest that this website should start a new congregation.



Donnie</font>
I think I a am starting to "get it". While I
read many posts commenting on worship style
your primary objection is that change is
occuring in the church from what the churches
of Christ have tradionally held. My response is
that I have read Rick Warren's book and many others
from christian writters and for the life of me I
don't see anything controversial. If they espoused
doctrines that question the diety of Christ or that
he truely came in the flesh or other bedrock doctrines
that lay the foundation of christianity I would join
your bandwagon. Could someone please tell me just one
single reference in any of the writtings or preached
from these "change-agents' that contradict the fundamental
teachings of christianity ?? The authors may not come
from the camp called 'churches of Christ' but unless
they make specific references of something contrary
to traditional church doctrine (not church of Christ
doctrine) then I say you really do not have a case against
the changes that are taking place.

I do agree that the community churches should not overtake
existing churches but, instead start their own churches
and let people decide by their own free-will what suits
them in the free market place of ideologies in religion;
and let each person be held accountable for the choices they
make.

Meanwhile, I hope that many people read my first post on
this thread and use some wisdom that God has given us and
evangelize people who have not heard the gospel message
even once; rather than trying to change existing christians
on something that I consider secondary as how to worship God.
Remember that Satan is the enemy not the 'change agents' at
Madison Church of Christ. They are our christian brothers and
sisters.

Thank you,

Wordkeeper
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Dr. Bill Crump
Dr. Bill Crump

June 9th, 2006, 2:32 pm #5

For those interested in learning about and understanding just how fallacious and unscriptural the Warren PDC paradigm is, Kjos Ministries has an excellent, multi-part series that addresses this topic, titled Spirit-Led or Purpose-Driven? The link is: http://crossroad.to/. Scroll down, click on "Part 1," and go from there.
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Joined: February 27th, 2006, 10:01 pm

June 9th, 2006, 3:14 pm #6

”As long as I attend a church of Christ I'll get to heaven" many people will be in for a rude awakening with that type of thinking." Here is another shocker- "There will be people outside of the churches of Christ who do have a personal realtionship with God and will be in heaven and many members of the churches of Christ will not enter in because God will say ' I never KNEW you'".


Please substitute “the church that belongs to Christ” ever where you have used “church of Christ” to help you understand, 1) the correct meaning of “church of Christ”, and the meaning of “church of Christ” to us , and 2) given that meaning, how senseless is the statement, “There will be people outside of the ‘church that belongs to Christ’ who do have a personal relationship with God and will be in heaven and many members of ‘the church that belongs to Christ’ will not enter in because God will say ‘I never KNEW you’”.


I recognize that you have a different understanding of the meaning of “church of Christ” but the actual meaning is “the church that belongs to Christ”. Jesus said “I will build MY church”, any other will not do. I hope this help you to understand our position and defense of the church of Christ.

Darryl
I understand hat you are trying to convey about
the churches of Christ of Christ being the body
of Christ. While at the beginning of the Campbell-
Stone movement the intentions were to change how
how people view the church and how scripture should
be interpreted. The intentions were good but somewhere
along the way the wheels came off. In the attempts to
make churches of Christ non-denominational or better
un-denominational, they have set up separate rules and
guidelines that have made themselves exactly what they
didn't want to become. Oliver Wendel Holmes, famous
Supreme Court judge once said "if it waddles like a
duck and quacks like a duck, then, this court is going
to call it a duck. The churches of Christ
by it's actions have made itself a denomination by separating
itself with distinct marks which if not followed, then, such
people and groups are 'lost' and called 'false teachers'

My point, I guess, is that Madison Church of Christ has gone
through some changes albeit through some un-Christ behavior
just let it go and start afresh with a congregation that
better meets your spiritual needs. If the Madison Church
of Christ was established in the early 1930s and have had
several generations of church of Christ teachings then, the
people are very well informed as to whether these changes
are for them or if not find another church. Certainly, the
people are not ignorant, and do not need for someone to
point the errors of the changes. After all, I do have to say
that members of the churches of Christ are some of the most
informed students of the bible of all of Christianity.

Thank you,

Wordkeeper
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Joined: June 8th, 2006, 6:42 pm

June 9th, 2006, 3:56 pm #7

I think I a am starting to "get it". While I
read many posts commenting on worship style
your primary objection is that change is
occuring in the church from what the churches
of Christ have tradionally held. My response is
that I have read Rick Warren's book and many others
from christian writters and for the life of me I
don't see anything controversial. If they espoused
doctrines that question the diety of Christ or that
he truely came in the flesh or other bedrock doctrines
that lay the foundation of christianity I would join
your bandwagon. Could someone please tell me just one
single reference in any of the writtings or preached
from these "change-agents' that contradict the fundamental
teachings of christianity ?? The authors may not come
from the camp called 'churches of Christ' but unless
they make specific references of something contrary
to traditional church doctrine (not church of Christ
doctrine) then I say you really do not have a case against
the changes that are taking place.

I do agree that the community churches should not overtake
existing churches but, instead start their own churches
and let people decide by their own free-will what suits
them in the free market place of ideologies in religion;
and let each person be held accountable for the choices they
make.

Meanwhile, I hope that many people read my first post on
this thread and use some wisdom that God has given us and
evangelize people who have not heard the gospel message
even once; rather than trying to change existing christians
on something that I consider secondary as how to worship God.
Remember that Satan is the enemy not the 'change agents' at
Madison Church of Christ. They are our christian brothers and
sisters.

Thank you,

Wordkeeper
Dear Wordkeeper,


It is obvious you are interested in solutions and that your posts are heart-felt and honest. You have stated that you see nothing controversial and nothing that contradicts fundamental teaching from the change agents. Consider this.


Controversy is in the eye of the beholder. I know a man that sees no controversy in playing a game of football on Sunday morning as an act of worship to God. Even as a substitute to singing, praying, reading God’s word, and even the Lords Supper. I know because I used it in what I thought was an absurd example to make a point that not every thing can be worship to God. The man that I was having the discussion with said he thought we should go for it. What is controversial is always filtered thorough the conscience of the individual. The Corinthians did not think it was controversial that one of their number was living with his father’s wife. I Cor 5. They were even proud of their tolerance and that nobody was upset. Fortunately the standard was not what was controversial, but instead what was right before God. We should discuss what is Scriptural and right before God in worship, but if we allowed the standard to be what is accepted by us we have shifted the purpose of worship to pleasing ourselves and others, not worshipping God.


The purpose of worship is to praise God. At no point should the worship become anything that removes God from the object of our praise. The change agents have stated their goal in worship is to “entertain” and to be “hip”. Who are they trying to entertain? God? For who should the music be “hip?” God again? No the stated goal for worship is to attract those that are un-churched. If their goal is entertainment for the un-churched who has become the object for that hip entertainment? That contradicts fundamental teaching in the Bible.


I hope that many people read my first post on
this thread and use some wisdom that God has given us and
evangelize people who have not heard the gospel message
even once; rather than trying to change existing christians
on something that I consider secondary as how to worship God.



This may be your point, but just to be clear who is trying to change existing Christians? The ones that are changing things or the ones that want to be left alone?

Do you really want your ideas to be the standard for what is secondary or primary in regard to worship of God?


Thanks,


Darryl
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Joined: February 27th, 2006, 10:01 pm

June 10th, 2006, 3:35 pm #8

”As long as I attend a church of Christ I'll get to heaven" many people will be in for a rude awakening with that type of thinking." Here is another shocker- "There will be people outside of the churches of Christ who do have a personal realtionship with God and will be in heaven and many members of the churches of Christ will not enter in because God will say ' I never KNEW you'".


Please substitute “the church that belongs to Christ” ever where you have used “church of Christ” to help you understand, 1) the correct meaning of “church of Christ”, and the meaning of “church of Christ” to us , and 2) given that meaning, how senseless is the statement, “There will be people outside of the ‘church that belongs to Christ’ who do have a personal relationship with God and will be in heaven and many members of ‘the church that belongs to Christ’ will not enter in because God will say ‘I never KNEW you’”.


I recognize that you have a different understanding of the meaning of “church of Christ” but the actual meaning is “the church that belongs to Christ”. Jesus said “I will build MY church”, any other will not do. I hope this help you to understand our position and defense of the church of Christ.

Darryl
I would like to propose a particular scenario
and see how you would respond. Let us suppose
that a new congregation has formed at a Holiday
Inn meeting room every Saturaday evening after
the sun goes down. They disdain titles and denomination
affiliations and just want to be called christians.
Their church has no name only by word of mouth do
people find out about this congregation and it has
been growing over the past few months. They have
instumental music during song service, a man who pastors
the congregational needs, and they have weekly
communion on Saturaday evenings. Now they have asked
you if there could be fellowship and common recognition
of being christian, would you gladly receive them ??
I am curious because if churches of Christ have no
formal standard of beliefs there would be no trouble
in accepting these people. If you do not accept them
then aren't you by your actions admitting that there
is a standard set of doctrines distinct amoung churches
of Christ and isn't that one of the attributes that define
denominational guidelines ??

Thank you,

Wordkeeper

I am intrested in your response.
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PPB
PPB

June 10th, 2006, 11:43 pm #9

I understand hat you are trying to convey about
the churches of Christ of Christ being the body
of Christ. While at the beginning of the Campbell-
Stone movement the intentions were to change how
how people view the church and how scripture should
be interpreted. The intentions were good but somewhere
along the way the wheels came off. In the attempts to
make churches of Christ non-denominational or better
un-denominational, they have set up separate rules and
guidelines that have made themselves exactly what they
didn't want to become. Oliver Wendel Holmes, famous
Supreme Court judge once said "if it waddles like a
duck and quacks like a duck, then, this court is going
to call it a duck. The churches of Christ
by it's actions have made itself a denomination by separating
itself with distinct marks which if not followed, then, such
people and groups are 'lost' and called 'false teachers'

My point, I guess, is that Madison Church of Christ has gone
through some changes albeit through some un-Christ behavior
just let it go and start afresh with a congregation that
better meets your spiritual needs. If the Madison Church
of Christ was established in the early 1930s and have had
several generations of church of Christ teachings then, the
people are very well informed as to whether these changes
are for them or if not find another church. Certainly, the
people are not ignorant, and do not need for someone to
point the errors of the changes. After all, I do have to say
that members of the churches of Christ are some of the most
informed students of the bible of all of Christianity.

Thank you,

Wordkeeper
Wordkeeper,

I understand that you are trying to find a middle ground to make everyone happy. I wish such a position was possible. However, your comments really bother me.

First, your history of the church and the Campbell-Stone movement is limited and erroneous. This type of worship was not "new" in 1810 nor was the name 'Church of Christ'. History shows us that this type of worship was carried out for centuries in France and Scotland, much less Italy. That the Campbell-Stone movement was trying to change American worship to that occurring in Scotland is a well known fact. Therefore, your premise is invalid.

2nd, separate and apart is what God commanded, not Campbell. He was merely trying to obey the Bible, which the Catholics had ignored for over a thousand years (much less their break-offs). We are to turn away from the "world" and "cultural things". We are commanded by Jesus to be separate and warned that we will be condemned for it.

Here's were you have failed to follow the scriptures - which tell us to be different, to stand firm in the teachings, to not change in our teachings or let others change it, to admonish those that do, to turn from those who continue. Yet, you condemn the Church for doing the VERY thing we are ordered to do. We are NOT to be a part of the world or popular or hip. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and sounds like a duck, then it probably is a duck. You bet. If its wrong then, its wrong now. If it was a sin then, its a sin now. If God condemned it then, he condemns it now.

If it talks like satan, walks like satan, and speaks softly like satan - then it probably is satan.

As for Christians knowing what they should do or when the church is being led down the wrong road - WHAT??? Have you ever dealt with psychopaths or good manipulators? Yes, they were ignorant and had become weak and wordly. They wanted to "fit in" and be "popular" with the world. And they were led to the slaughter like stupid sheep.

Did you know.......? Jesus told us to save the lost sheep. He taught us to leave the safe fold and go out to find just one lost sheep. But if I listened to your "logical and rational" thinking, I would forgo what Jesus taught and let them stay lost.

My question to you is this - do I listen to your sweet but false words or do I listen to Jesus? If I turn away from you, am I now separating myself from the "popular, easy" crowd and going against them? Am I now the "bad guy" as the Change Agents are teaching?

By the way, the reason this is happening is because our youth are NOT the most knowledgeable Christians. Our churches became lax in teaching the deep stuff and taught the fluff. Our colleges have professors that even an untrained historian can tear apart in seconds. We failed our youth for the last 30 years. I know, I'm one of them that almost stayed lost.

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PPB
PPB

June 11th, 2006, 2:35 pm #10

I would like to propose a particular scenario
and see how you would respond. Let us suppose
that a new congregation has formed at a Holiday
Inn meeting room every Saturaday evening after
the sun goes down. They disdain titles and denomination
affiliations and just want to be called christians.
Their church has no name only by word of mouth do
people find out about this congregation and it has
been growing over the past few months. They have
instumental music during song service, a man who pastors
the congregational needs, and they have weekly
communion on Saturaday evenings. Now they have asked
you if there could be fellowship and common recognition
of being christian, would you gladly receive them ??
I am curious because if churches of Christ have no
formal standard of beliefs there would be no trouble
in accepting these people. If you do not accept them
then aren't you by your actions admitting that there
is a standard set of doctrines distinct amoung churches
of Christ and isn't that one of the attributes that define
denominational guidelines ??

Thank you,

Wordkeeper

I am intrested in your response.
Where would you ever get that the c of C has no formal beliefs? How more formal can you get than the BIBLE? God determined our belief - not any man-made religious group. No, we don't have a "formal list" made by up by a poor theologist like Calvin or some other poor scholar. It's not a list of 10 things to do or not do. It's a lifestyle and it is to set you APART from the world. It's ONLY in the scriptures and ONLY God commands what is to be believed/acted upon or not. Do you not understand that? Your analogy doesn't work because you are giving man the control of their doctrine.

So, Wordkeepr, does this congregation follow God's Commands?

Hmmmm... Christ/Apostles clearly taught that the "assembly" with LS was to be held on the 1st day of the week. Historical documents clearly verifiy that the 1st century church had their "assembly" and LS on Sunday. (Though they can meet at any time of the week for additional study and get togethers.)

You tell me - if I am to obey God and ONLY worship with those who follow ALL of his commands and to turn away from those who do not - can I scripturally accept this group who can't even get the day correct? Are they dividing God's church by setting THEIR own day of worship instead of the day God commanded? Are they not divisionist and false teachers as defined by Christ and the Apostles?

The answer to your question is for you to determine - either you follow all of the scriptures or you let them go. You can't pick and chose which scriptures to obey.

*****************************************************************************
Here's some scriptures that the Change Agents hate to acknowledge and have tried to find ridiculous ways to redefine - they will answer you questions. Can you read all of them through to the end or will you just glance at them and go back to your question?

Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that DOETH THE WILL of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. 24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

1Jo 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things [that are] in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

2Pe 2:2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. 3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not. 4 For if God spared NOT the angels that sinned, but cast [them] down to hell, and delivered [them] into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; 5 And spared NOT the old world, but saved Noah the eighth [person], a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; 6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned [them] with an overthrow, making [them] an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

Hbr 2:1 Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let [them] slip. 2 For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward; 3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard [him];

Tts 1:9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers. 10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision: 11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.

Tts 2:7 In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine [shewing] uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity, 8 Sound speech, that cannot be condemned; that he that is of the contrary part may be ashamed, having no evil thing to say of you.

Tts 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

Tts 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. 15 These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

Rev 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. 16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.


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