Dynamic Worship Performs: Thomas Campbell

Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

September 25th, 2010, 2:14 am #1

One of the hallel or praise hymns was recited once a year at Passover. The tradition of the Jews would point to Psalm 137 being sung when the forerunner announced Messiah. This points to hanging up their harps once and for all.

<font>Matt. 26:29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine,
.....until that day when I drink it new with you in my Fathers kingdom.
Matt. 26:30 And when they had HYMNED, they went out into the mount of Olives. </font>

THIS PINS YOU TO CHANTING ONE HYMN ONCE A YEAR.

Reading the halal often was called IDOLATRY: you believed that you had some value to give to God.

30 Kai humnsantes exlthon eis to Oros tn Elain.

Humn-e , Ep. humnei Hes.Op.2; Ep.3pl. A. humneusin h.Ap.190; fem. part. humneusa Hes. Th.11;
2. descant upon, in song or speech,
ton nomon humnein recite the form of the law, Id.Lg.871a:


IF YOU REPEAT THE HYMN OVER AND OVER YOU ARE A SORCERER.

II. to tell over and over and over again, to repeat, recite, rehearse, Lat. decantare,

Decanto. A. Usually with the secondary idea of something trite, worn out, absurd; to repeat often, to say over and over again
C. Esp., to repeat as a charm, and hence to bewitch, enchant, charm: nullo decantatus carmine,


The LADED BURDEN was repeating type songs which just aggitated people as well as God because they thought they could do enough WORK to force God to hear them.

Hes. Th. 1 Thence they arise and go abroad by night, [10] veiled in thick mist,
and utter their song with lovely voice, praising Zeus the aegis-holder, and queenly Hera of Argos who walks on golden sandals

Soph. Ant. 815 Antigone
[806] Citizens of my fatherland, see me setting out on my last journey, looking at my last sunlight, [810] and never again. No, Hades who lays all to rest leads me living to Acheron's shore, though I have not had my due portion of the chant that brings the bride, nor has any hymn been mine [815] for the crowning of marriage. Instead the lord of Acheron will be my groom.


CANTILLATION is closer to SPEAK than SING: melody as tunfulness belongs to th 19th century.

"The word that is employed for this "anaginosko, anagnosis) is the technical term for the cultic reading aloud of the Old Testament in the synagogue. By applying this terminology to the reading of his own epistles he not only ascribes the same authority to the apostolic word as to the Old Testament writings...he also combines a quotation from the Old Testament with a word of Jesus and introduces the whole with the familiar formula: 'for the Scripture says.'" (Ridderbos, Hermon, Paul, P. 483 an Outline of His Theo., Eerdmans)

Christ in the synagogue and for the ekklesia COMMNDED


Acts 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city
.....them that preach him,
.....being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.


He EXAMPLED how His word was to be treated "authentically".

Luke 4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was,
.....he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. <b>
Luke 4:17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias.
.....<b>And when he had opened the book<b>, he found the place where it was written
</b></b></b>


Paul commanded how His letters were to be treated .

Col. 4:16 And when this epistle is READ among you,
.....cause that it be READ also in the church of the Laodiceans;
.....and that ye likewise READ the epistle from Laodicea.

1Th. 5:27 I charge you by the Lord that this epistle be READ unto all the holy brethren.


Paul commanded Timothy how to hold church.

1Tim. 4:13 Till I come, give attendance to (public) READING, to exhortation, to doctrine.

"Anaginosko--of written characters, know them again, and so, read, 6. Med., attach oneself to a thing, cling, cleave to, 7. Pass., to be held fast by a thing
Anagn-stikos
A. capable of reading, a good reader, Arr.Epict.2.18.2; fond of reading, Plu.2.514a.
2. suitable for reading, Arist. Rh.1413b12, cf. PGrenf.1.14.12.

Proana-gignosko
A. read aloud, D.C.38.2; esp. of a teacher reading aloud to pupils, Plu.2.79ce.
II. read previously or beforehand, J.Vit.44, Plu.2.36e, Gal.15.745.

Prov. 1:20 Wisdom crieth without; she uttereth her voice in the streets:
Prov. 1:21 She crieth in the chief place of concourse, in the openings of the gates:
.....In the city she uttereth her words, saying,
Prov. 1:22 How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity?
.....and the scorners delight in their scorning,
.....and fools hate knowledge?

How terminally ungodly that preachers would violate the direct commands, examples and inferences if you honor God and His Word.

If the command was to READ the Word without any "me, me, me" those who claim that Christ did not ordain a PATTERN are too evil to be preachers/singers and too ignorant to let free to roam the streets.

If someone sent you a personal letter and someone "tampered" with it or charged you for "tampering" with it and then sang and clapped while singing just the "sentiment" of the letter they you know how people treat God worse than the local prostitute.

And those who ENABLE the insanity are just as guilty.
Last edited by Ken.Sublett on September 28th, 2010, 5:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Dave
Dave

September 26th, 2010, 10:53 am #2

Ken,
Just to clarify, when you say "The speakers, singers, instrument players and craftsmen have in fact been SILENCED in an Ex-church of Christ," you mean that even those who sing a capella are sinful???

Just a yes or no would suffice.
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

September 27th, 2010, 4:36 am #3

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Dave,

I'm trying to understand your question based on your own understanding of the last paragraph of the initial post:

1. Is there a difference to you between: (a) congregational singing and (b) congregational singing with instrument players?

2. Is there a difference to you between: (a) congregational singing and (b) the Praise Team [the Choir] performing to/for the congregation?

3. Do you understand what it means "when you remove CHRIST from your public confession"?

4. Is there a difference to you when, e.g., Oak Hills Church of Christ changed its "public confession" from being "of Christ" to Oak Hills Church, with the name of "Christ" removed?

5. How do you identify an "ex-church of Christ"?

6. I searched and did not find your reference to "a cappella" or "sinful" in the original post. Was this a separate question that you've wanted to ask for quite some time now?

7. By "a cappella" did you specifically have in mind: (a) congregational singing only or (b) the Praise Team [CHOIR] singing to/for the congregation without instruments?

You see, there was no connection between: (1) "being SILENCED in an ex-church of Christ" per the last paragraph of the initial post and (2) your question about whether or not "that even those who sing a capella are sinful...." [It would have been a lot less confusing with you asking the question (separately) without associating it with the preceding quote.] [/color]
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

September 27th, 2010, 8:34 pm #4

One of the hallel or praise hymns was recited once a year at Passover. The tradition of the Jews would point to Psalm 137 being sung when the forerunner announced Messiah. This points to hanging up their harps once and for all.

<font>Matt. 26:29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine,
.....until that day when I drink it new with you in my Fathers kingdom.
Matt. 26:30 And when they had HYMNED, they went out into the mount of Olives. </font>

THIS PINS YOU TO CHANTING ONE HYMN ONCE A YEAR.

Reading the halal often was called IDOLATRY: you believed that you had some value to give to God.

30 Kai humnsantes exlthon eis to Oros tn Elain.

Humn-e , Ep. humnei Hes.Op.2; Ep.3pl. A. humneusin h.Ap.190; fem. part. humneusa Hes. Th.11;
2. descant upon, in song or speech,
ton nomon humnein recite the form of the law, Id.Lg.871a:


IF YOU REPEAT THE HYMN OVER AND OVER YOU ARE A SORCERER.

II. to tell over and over and over again, to repeat, recite, rehearse, Lat. decantare,

Decanto. A. Usually with the secondary idea of something trite, worn out, absurd; to repeat often, to say over and over again
C. Esp., to repeat as a charm, and hence to bewitch, enchant, charm: nullo decantatus carmine,


The LADED BURDEN was repeating type songs which just aggitated people as well as God because they thought they could do enough WORK to force God to hear them.

Hes. Th. 1 Thence they arise and go abroad by night, [10] veiled in thick mist,
and utter their song with lovely voice, praising Zeus the aegis-holder, and queenly Hera of Argos who walks on golden sandals

Soph. Ant. 815 Antigone
[806] Citizens of my fatherland, see me setting out on my last journey, looking at my last sunlight, [810] and never again. No, Hades who lays all to rest leads me living to Acheron's shore, though I have not had my due portion of the chant that brings the bride, nor has any hymn been mine [815] for the crowning of marriage. Instead the lord of Acheron will be my groom.


CANTILLATION is closer to SPEAK than SING: melody as tunfulness belongs to th 19th century.

"The word that is employed for this "anaginosko, anagnosis) is the technical term for the cultic reading aloud of the Old Testament in the synagogue. By applying this terminology to the reading of his own epistles he not only ascribes the same authority to the apostolic word as to the Old Testament writings...he also combines a quotation from the Old Testament with a word of Jesus and introduces the whole with the familiar formula: 'for the Scripture says.'" (Ridderbos, Hermon, Paul, P. 483 an Outline of His Theo., Eerdmans)

Christ in the synagogue and for the ekklesia COMMNDED


Acts 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city
.....them that preach him,
.....being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.


He EXAMPLED how His word was to be treated "authentically".

Luke 4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was,
.....he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. <b>
Luke 4:17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias.
.....<b>And when he had opened the book<b>, he found the place where it was written
</b></b></b>


Paul commanded how His letters were to be treated .

Col. 4:16 And when this epistle is READ among you,
.....cause that it be READ also in the church of the Laodiceans;
.....and that ye likewise READ the epistle from Laodicea.

1Th. 5:27 I charge you by the Lord that this epistle be READ unto all the holy brethren.


Paul commanded Timothy how to hold church.

1Tim. 4:13 Till I come, give attendance to (public) READING, to exhortation, to doctrine.

"Anaginosko--of written characters, know them again, and so, read, 6. Med., attach oneself to a thing, cling, cleave to, 7. Pass., to be held fast by a thing
Anagn-stikos
A. capable of reading, a good reader, Arr.Epict.2.18.2; fond of reading, Plu.2.514a.
2. suitable for reading, Arist. Rh.1413b12, cf. PGrenf.1.14.12.

Proana-gignosko
A. read aloud, D.C.38.2; esp. of a teacher reading aloud to pupils, Plu.2.79ce.
II. read previously or beforehand, J.Vit.44, Plu.2.36e, Gal.15.745.

Prov. 1:20 Wisdom crieth without; she uttereth her voice in the streets:
Prov. 1:21 She crieth in the chief place of concourse, in the openings of the gates:
.....In the city she uttereth her words, saying,
Prov. 1:22 How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity?
.....and the scorners delight in their scorning,
.....and fools hate knowledge?

How terminally ungodly that preachers would violate the direct commands, examples and inferences if you honor God and His Word.

If the command was to READ the Word without any "me, me, me" those who claim that Christ did not ordain a PATTERN are too evil to be preachers/singers and too ignorant to let free to roam the streets.

If someone sent you a personal letter and someone "tampered" with it or charged you for "tampering" with it and then sang and clapped while singing just the "sentiment" of the letter they you know how people treat God worse than the local prostitute.

And those who ENABLE the insanity are just as guilty.



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Dave
Dave

September 28th, 2010, 5:15 am #5

Matthew 26
26While they were eating, Jesus took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to his disciples, saying, "Take and eat; this is my body."
27Then he took the cup, gave thanks and offered it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you. 28This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. 29I tell you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it anew with you in my Father's kingdom."
30When they had sung a hymn, they went out to the Mount of Olives.


YOUR LORD, Ken, to whom your knee will bow too one day, SANG a hymn. So Ken, you are WRONG!
The very Word that you continue to abuse proves that you are wrong!

So continue in your denial, but it's not what I think, but the Word of God that makes your words untrue.

Like you say......speak that which is written.
I have!!!


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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

September 28th, 2010, 6:08 am #6

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Dave,

What or where is the argument for or against singing a hymn? It's not there.[/color]
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

September 28th, 2010, 5:49 pm #7

One of the hallel or praise hymns was recited once a year at Passover. The tradition of the Jews would point to Psalm 137 being sung when the forerunner announced Messiah. This points to hanging up their harps once and for all.

<font>Matt. 26:29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine,
.....until that day when I drink it new with you in my Fathers kingdom.
Matt. 26:30 And when they had HYMNED, they went out into the mount of Olives. </font>

THIS PINS YOU TO CHANTING ONE HYMN ONCE A YEAR.

Reading the halal often was called IDOLATRY: you believed that you had some value to give to God.

30 Kai humnsantes exlthon eis to Oros tn Elain.

Humn-e , Ep. humnei Hes.Op.2; Ep.3pl. A. humneusin h.Ap.190; fem. part. humneusa Hes. Th.11;
2. descant upon, in song or speech,
ton nomon humnein recite the form of the law, Id.Lg.871a:


IF YOU REPEAT THE HYMN OVER AND OVER YOU ARE A SORCERER.

II. to tell over and over and over again, to repeat, recite, rehearse, Lat. decantare,

Decanto. A. Usually with the secondary idea of something trite, worn out, absurd; to repeat often, to say over and over again
C. Esp., to repeat as a charm, and hence to bewitch, enchant, charm: nullo decantatus carmine,


The LADED BURDEN was repeating type songs which just aggitated people as well as God because they thought they could do enough WORK to force God to hear them.

Hes. Th. 1 Thence they arise and go abroad by night, [10] veiled in thick mist,
and utter their song with lovely voice, praising Zeus the aegis-holder, and queenly Hera of Argos who walks on golden sandals

Soph. Ant. 815 Antigone
[806] Citizens of my fatherland, see me setting out on my last journey, looking at my last sunlight, [810] and never again. No, Hades who lays all to rest leads me living to Acheron's shore, though I have not had my due portion of the chant that brings the bride, nor has any hymn been mine [815] for the crowning of marriage. Instead the lord of Acheron will be my groom.


CANTILLATION is closer to SPEAK than SING: melody as tunfulness belongs to th 19th century.

"The word that is employed for this "anaginosko, anagnosis) is the technical term for the cultic reading aloud of the Old Testament in the synagogue. By applying this terminology to the reading of his own epistles he not only ascribes the same authority to the apostolic word as to the Old Testament writings...he also combines a quotation from the Old Testament with a word of Jesus and introduces the whole with the familiar formula: 'for the Scripture says.'" (Ridderbos, Hermon, Paul, P. 483 an Outline of His Theo., Eerdmans)

Christ in the synagogue and for the ekklesia COMMNDED


Acts 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city
.....them that preach him,
.....being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.


He EXAMPLED how His word was to be treated "authentically".

Luke 4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was,
.....he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. <b>
Luke 4:17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias.
.....<b>And when he had opened the book<b>, he found the place where it was written
</b></b></b>


Paul commanded how His letters were to be treated .

Col. 4:16 And when this epistle is READ among you,
.....cause that it be READ also in the church of the Laodiceans;
.....and that ye likewise READ the epistle from Laodicea.

1Th. 5:27 I charge you by the Lord that this epistle be READ unto all the holy brethren.


Paul commanded Timothy how to hold church.

1Tim. 4:13 Till I come, give attendance to (public) READING, to exhortation, to doctrine.

"Anaginosko--of written characters, know them again, and so, read, 6. Med., attach oneself to a thing, cling, cleave to, 7. Pass., to be held fast by a thing
Anagn-stikos
A. capable of reading, a good reader, Arr.Epict.2.18.2; fond of reading, Plu.2.514a.
2. suitable for reading, Arist. Rh.1413b12, cf. PGrenf.1.14.12.

Proana-gignosko
A. read aloud, D.C.38.2; esp. of a teacher reading aloud to pupils, Plu.2.79ce.
II. read previously or beforehand, J.Vit.44, Plu.2.36e, Gal.15.745.

Prov. 1:20 Wisdom crieth without; she uttereth her voice in the streets:
Prov. 1:21 She crieth in the chief place of concourse, in the openings of the gates:
.....In the city she uttereth her words, saying,
Prov. 1:22 How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity?
.....and the scorners delight in their scorning,
.....and fools hate knowledge?

How terminally ungodly that preachers would violate the direct commands, examples and inferences if you honor God and His Word.

If the command was to READ the Word without any "me, me, me" those who claim that Christ did not ordain a PATTERN are too evil to be preachers/singers and too ignorant to let free to roam the streets.

If someone sent you a personal letter and someone "tampered" with it or charged you for "tampering" with it and then sang and clapped while singing just the "sentiment" of the letter they you know how people treat God worse than the local prostitute.

And those who ENABLE the insanity are just as guilty.
One of the hallel or praise hymns was recited once a year at Passover. The tradition of the Jews would point to Psalm 137 being sung when the forerunner announced Messiah. This points to hanging up their harps once and for all.

<font>Matt. 26:29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine,
.....until that day when I drink it new with you in my Fathers kingdom.
Matt. 26:30 And when they had HYMNED, they went out into the mount of Olives. </font>

THIS PINS YOU TO CHANTING ONE HYMN ONCE A YEAR.

Reading the halal often was called IDOLATRY: you believed that you had some value to give to God.

30 Kai humnsantes exlthon eis to Oros tn Elain.

Humn-e , Ep. humnei Hes.Op.2; Ep.3pl. A. humneusin h.Ap.190; fem. part. humneusa Hes. Th.11;
2. descant upon, in song or speech,
ton nomon humnein recite the form of the law, Id.Lg.871a:


IF YOU REPEAT THE HYMN OVER AND OVER YOU ARE A SORCERER.

II. to tell over and over and over again, to repeat, recite, rehearse, Lat. decantare,

Decanto. A. Usually with the secondary idea of something trite, worn out, absurd; to repeat often, to say over and over again
C. Esp., to repeat as a charm, and hence to bewitch, enchant, charm: nullo decantatus carmine,


The LADED BURDEN was repeating type songs which just aggitated people as well as God because they thought they could do enough WORK to force God to hear them.

Hes. Th. 1 Thence they arise and go abroad by night, [10] veiled in thick mist,
and utter their song with lovely voice, praising Zeus the aegis-holder, and queenly Hera of Argos who walks on golden sandals

Soph. Ant. 815 Antigone
[806] Citizens of my fatherland, see me setting out on my last journey, looking at my last sunlight, [810] and never again. No, Hades who lays all to rest leads me living to Acheron's shore, though I have not had my due portion of the chant that brings the bride, nor has any hymn been mine [815] for the crowning of marriage. Instead the lord of Acheron will be my groom.


CANTILLATION is closer to SPEAK than SING: melody as tunfulness belongs to th 19th century.

"The word that is employed for this "anaginosko, anagnosis) is the technical term for the cultic reading aloud of the Old Testament in the synagogue. By applying this terminology to the reading of his own epistles he not only ascribes the same authority to the apostolic word as to the Old Testament writings...he also combines a quotation from the Old Testament with a word of Jesus and introduces the whole with the familiar formula: 'for the Scripture says.'" (Ridderbos, Hermon, Paul, P. 483 an Outline of His Theo., Eerdmans)

Christ in the synagogue and for the ekklesia COMMNDED

Acts 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city
.....them that preach him,
.....being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.


He EXAMPLED how His word was to be treated "authentically".

Luke 4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was,
.....he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. <b>
Luke 4:17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias.
.....<b>And when he had opened the book<b>, he found the place where it was written
</b></b></b>


Paul commanded how His letters were to be treated .

Col. 4:16 And when this epistle is read among you,
.....cause that it be read also in the church of the Laodiceans;
.....and that ye likewise read the epistle from Laodicea.

1Th. 5:27 I charge you by the Lord that this epistle be read unto all the holy brethren.


Paul commanded Timothy how to hold church.

1Tim. 4:13 Till I come, give attendance to (public) reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.

"Anaginosko--of written characters, know them again, and so, read, 6. Med., attach oneself to a thing, cling, cleave to, 7. Pass., to be held fast by a thing
Anagn-stikos , , on,
A. capable of reading, a good reader, Arr.Epict.2.18.2; fond of reading, Plu.2.514a.
2. suitable for reading, Arist. Rh.1413b12, cf. PGrenf.1.14.12.

Proana-gignsk ,
A. read aloud, D.C.38.2; esp. of a teacher reading aloud to pupils, Plu.2.79ce.
II. read previously or beforehand, J.Vit.44, Plu.2.36e, Gal.15.745.

Prov. 1:20 Wisdom crieth without; she uttereth her voice in the streets:
Prov. 1:21 She crieth in the chief place of concourse, in the openings of the gates:
n the city she uttereth her words, saying,
Prov. 1:22 How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity?
and the scorners delight in their scorning,
and fools hate knowledge?
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Dave
Dave

September 29th, 2010, 8:18 pm #8

Donnie, you asked me..."What or where is the argument for or against singing a hymn? It's not there."

You can read, so please REread Ken's last post.
He is against ANY kind of music, including singing.

You already knew that though, didn't you Donnie?

More games.......
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Donnie
Donnie

September 29th, 2010, 10:14 pm #9

No, Dave, your last argument was:
YOUR LORD, Ken, to whom your knee will bow too one day, SANG a hymn. So Ken, you are WRONG!
The very Word that you continue to abuse proves that you are wrong!
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]The key expression you used was "sang a hymn." As if Ken had made an argument against "singing a hymn."

Either you misunderstood him or you made it up.

Read carefully. Ken, as well as the Scripture, is against certain types of music, including singing, that is associated with musical idolatry or performance.[/color]


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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

September 29th, 2010, 10:16 pm #10

Donnie, you asked me..."What or where is the argument for or against singing a hymn? It's not there."

You can read, so please REread Ken's last post.
He is against ANY kind of music, including singing.

You already knew that though, didn't you Donnie?

More games.......
I broke my rule and conviction that what's-his-name is a serious Bible reader and responded to his and others silly argument that because David sang and played instruments and went naked with the girls ONCE; and because Jesus celebrated Passover and sang a hymn (once) and went out (once), HE has the authority to act up in pubic three times a week.

The issue is the once-hymned hymn authorizes NOT-inspired gender-blending praise songs is not--for the minimal believer.

Rather than being able to absorb a fact he lies that I am AGAINST. A disciple or student searches for truth for the possibility that a Bible student is reading and does not do DOGMA. God and the whole Bible knowing that He is God and we are not told us not to "imagination."

What's his name promised to go away and quit playing Devil's advocate so convincingly. Please don't dribble on this thread.



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