Dwaine E. Dunning, Ray Downen Questions.

Dwaine E. Dunning, Ray Downen Questions.

Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

July 19th, 2016, 3:31 pm #1

Dianne wants a translation of Dwaine E. Dunning:

Dwaine E. Dunning: Both Paul and John vigorously opposed Gnostic thought. This philosophy was founded on a notion which forced anyone who accepted it to deny that Jesus had come "in the flesh." Their position was that since flesh is material, flesh is evil and cannot be spiritual. So if Jesus was actually in the flesh, then He was not God and was not good.

There is a strong overtone of this ancient and corrosive doctrine in an insistence that musical instruments, being material, must inhibit spirituality if they are used in our assemblies.

The same "logic" argues against Christian use of musical instruments at any time for any purpose. Thus, although influences from Jewish and Greek and Roman religions and culture favored use of musical instruments, in the introduction of Gnosticism we see a strongly negative influence which might possibly account for opposition to use of musical instruments by some Christians.


NONE of the Adversaries against faithful churches is based on knowledge of even the meaning of words or common sense or decency.

As an absolute MARK anyone who imposes instrumental sounds or pseuto-sounds when Jesus promises to be with the twos or threes is that they will not or cannot tead the word: the sound claiming God's authority is the meaning of Lying Wonders by those God has closed their eyes and plugged their ears.

Such outrageous lies are of BIBLICAL PROPORTION and if calculations are right God is getting ready for the Baptism of Fire the University "scholars" have been praying for.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

July 19th, 2016, 7:56 pm #2

Jesus SPOKE what the Father BREATHED (not a spirit person) into Him without MEASURE or METRON.

This word is most often used of musical meter or melody. That's goodd because there is nothing metrical in the entire Bible.

ALL of the commands are to SPEAK the Word which is the only way you can teach a disciple or student of Jesus Christ. By definition, those who refuse to limit themselves to that which is revealed in the prophets and apostles may be RELIGIOUS in the ecumenical sense. However, they cannot be Christians however much they charge for the free water of the word.

Therefore, the fact that PROVES is that the POST-BIBLE theologians do not attempt even to SING that which is written for our learning. The PRAISE songs are the clear historical mark of a bad persona selling his or her body in the name of Jesus.

Dwaine E. Dunning: Both Paul and John vigorously opposed Gnostic thought. This philosophy was founded on a notion which forced anyone who accepted it to deny that Jesus had come "in the flesh." Their position was that since flesh is material, flesh is evil and cannot be spiritual. So if Jesus was actually in the flesh, then He was not God and was not good.

The Jews claimed that Jesus claimed to be GOD: Jesus said that He was THE Son of God.
Jesus said that God was SPIRIT without flesh and bones.
He said that HE was a MAN with flesh and bones.
That's simple reading grade 6.

Dunning: There is a strong overtone of this ancient and corrosive doctrine in an insistence that musical instruments, being material, must inhibit spirituality if they are used in our assemblies.

Jesus said that worship is IN the Spirit. He said that the kingdom does not come with observation meaning religious observations like the GNOSTICS who used MUSIC to get a "KNOWING" relationship with their God.

Scripture says that God is not worshipped in MATERIAL HOUSES built by humans. God is not worshipped by the WORKS of human hands inclujding clapping or picking a guitar.

Scripture and the Campbells defined worship as "reading and musing the Word of God."

From the wilderness onward the DIRECT COMMAND was and is:

Acts 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that PREACH him, being READ in the synagogues every sabbath day.

Dunning: The same "logic" argues against Christian use of musical instruments at any time for any purpose.

John calls the speakers, singers or instrument players SORCERERS and says that THEY WILL BE CAST ALIVE INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE

Liars along with all of the MECHANICAL means to silence the Word will also be cast alive into the lake of fire.

Dunning just told a deliberate lie knowing that he is wrong. The purpose of the assembly is to be a DISCIPLE of Christ. A studlent will not TOLERATE some turkey making music while studying for FINAL EXAM.

Dunning: Thus, although influences from Jewish and Greek and Roman religions and culture favored use of musical instruments, in the introduction of Gnosticism we see a strongly negative influence which might possibly account for opposition to use of musical instruments by some Christians.

The synagogue for the GODLY outlawed vocal or instrumental rejoicing or rhetoric.
The Civil-Military-Clergy anti-prophets made noise during sacrifices which God did not command.
Their music was the MARK of saying "we will not listen to God" and also the MARK of burnig.

No godly Jew ever worshipped when the clergy of the damned made instrumental noise. Little Simple Simon would understand that the music of the pagan greeks was to PREPARE the worshiper for perverted sex and being fleeced by the female priestesses.

NONE of the Adversaries against faithful churches is based on knowledge of even the meaning of words or common sense or decency.

As an absolute MARK anyone who imposes instrumental sounds or pseuto-sounds when Jesus promises to be with the twos or threes is that they will not or cannot tead the word: the sound claiming God's authority is the meaning of Lying Wonders by those God has closed their eyes and plugged their ears.

Such outrageous lies are of BIBLICAL PROPORTION and if calculations are right God is getting ready for the Baptism of Fire the University "scholars" have been praying for.

Dunning:Both Jewish temple and culture strongly favored instrumental music, but questions have been raised concerning the synagogue with some saying any singing there was always a cappella.

There is no command, example or remote inference of any Jews including the Jacob-cursed and God-abandoned Levites engaging in congregational singing with or without instruments. The instrumental noise during the burning of innocent victims--the HOLOCAUST--is called NOISE which also defines contemporary PRAISE songs. Praise singers were required by desperate people fearing that the gods were going to fail or betray them--again.

Dunning:However, when we come to the influence of philosophy, there are two immediate and very strong elements of opposition. They should be considered.

1) GNOSTICISM, already much on the scene during the time of the apostles, opposed anything of physical (material) nature since this was contrary to what was "spiritual."

Gnostics might have opposed Christian use of musical instruments with the claim that such instruments were not spiritual but rather were physical. Some "Gnostics" today do so, apparently not aware that they are thinking like Gnostics rather than Christians


That's a Lie: the GNOSTICS introduced muusic and the "christians" followed up with singing to compete.

THE TRUTH SHALL GET THE INSTRUMENTALISTS BURNED: There was nothing to SING tunefully from Genesis to Revelation and for many centuries after the Bible was completed. THE GNOSTICS are the source of all religious music because the BELIEVED that MUSIC could lead them into the presence of their god. This is the same claim by singers and instrument players selling their bodies in the name of Jesus.

TRUTH: "In Gnostic circles religious poetry arose to compete with the Old Testament Psalms. Some Catholics therefore distrusted the end of the fourth century, in the services of the Catholic Church only the Old Testament Psalms and the hymns or canticles from the New Testament were sung:

the other hymns were for personal, family, or private use. Gradually there were prepared versical paraphrases of the
Psalms, hymns with lines of equal length, and hymns which were acrostic." (Latourette, p. 20


They all lie that the evil Churches of Christ REMOVED instruments because they were ignorant and evil. The fact that only the Psalms were chanted or spoken until the 4th Century after Constantine began to pay unwashed bishops for the first time in histor.

"But considerable prominence was given to the hymns by the Gnostic, Bardesans, who composed a psalter of 150 psalms. However, the 59th canon of the Synod of Laodicea, 360 A. D., enjoined that 'No psalm composed by private individuals nor any uncanonical books may be read in the Church, but only... the Canonical Books of the OT and NT." Int Std Ency., p. 2494A

That will not stop the PROGRESSIVES from saying that "a" spirit commanded them to impose the prophesying or soothsaying-sorcery instruments of David while daring the owners to DISOBEY "god" command. They are GNOSTICS as in Spiritual Formation or Lectio-Divina (the Thessalian witch or HAG) because they CLAIM that they got GNOSIS directly from a god.

Last edited by Ken.Sublett on July 19th, 2016, 7:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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July 19th, 2016, 9:12 pm #3

It's not a given that when gnosticism is likely to endorse a point of view, it follows that the point of view is incorrect.

Gnosticism, with all its faults, did place the spiritual above the physical.
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