Sarge
Sarge

May 2nd, 2016, 4:18 pm #31

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]I asked about the name of "the holy spirit of God." I agree: God's holy spirit does not have a name because it is not a person -- it is the holy spirit OF God.

The expression "in the name of Jesus Christ" is in scripture -- it is sufficient. No need to distort the truth that the name of Jesus is above every name.

Bill, the "authority" or "power" is not the issue in Matt. 28. It becomes an issue when Bill does not accept the truth that it was God the Father who gave Jesus His Son "all authority" or "all power."

Please read Matt. 28:18 very, very, very carefully and with an open mind. It says: "All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth." God the Father is the giver of that "all power"; Jesus is the receiver of that "all power."

The reference to the NAME (singular) of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is an embodiment of the NAME (singular) of Jesus Christ. There shouldn't be an argument there.

There is an argument when you use the passage to prove the validity of the pagan-influenced, Catholic-invented Trinity dogma.

True: there are entities involved. But note the difference between the Trinity creed and the Scripture.

The Trinity Creed states:
1. God the Father as Person No. 1 [the only one scriptural]
2. God the Son as Person No. 2 [no reference is found in Scripture]
3. God the Holy Spirit as Person No. 3 [no reference is found in Scripture]

----------------versus-----------------------

The Scripture states:
1. God the Father as the only true God [many scripture references]
2. Jesus Christ as the only begotten Son OF God [scores of scriptures]
3. The holy spirit OF God [NOTE: preposition "OF"] which we are to "grieve not"


So, Bill, why do you underestimate the authority and power that is in "the name of Jesus Christ" which God bestowed upon Jesus? Remember Matt. 28:18 (preceding verse) -- "All authority [or power] is given to me [Jesus]."[/color]
Good article, be sure to watch the video.

https://carm.org/religious-movements/on ... jesus-name
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

May 2nd, 2016, 4:51 pm #32

First he says correctly that this is not a formula but you MUST pronounce father, son and spirit over them. He does not believe the connection between baptism and salvation or the remission of sins.

Then he quotes all of the passages about the NAME of Jesus Christ but blames the Oneness Pentecostals fof using the SAME universal COMPREHENDING of Jesus' simple statement.

"The nearest approach to a formal announcement of the doctrine of the Trinity which is recorded from Our Lord's lips, or, perhaps we may say, which is to be found in the whole compass of the NThas been preserved for us, not by John, but by one of the synoptists. It too, however, is only incidentally introduced, and has for its main object something very different from formulating the doctrine of the Trinity.

It is embodied in the great commission which the resurrected Lord gave His disciples to be their 'marching orders even unto the end of the world.'

"It does not say, 'In the names [plural] of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost";

nor yet 'In the name of the Father,
and in the name of the Son,
and in the name of the Holy Ghost,'
as if we had to deal with three separate Beings. (Int Std Bible Ency., p. 3017)


The VEIL still remains UNZIPPED because you deny that THE LORD IS THAT SPIRIT
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Sarge
Sarge

May 2nd, 2016, 5:33 pm #33


IS THERE ANYONE HERE THAT CAN TELL ME "WHY" I SHOULD "NOT" BE BAPTIZED USING THE VERY WORDS OF JESUS ??

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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

May 2nd, 2016, 5:56 pm #34

First he says correctly that this is not a formula but you MUST pronounce father, son and spirit over them. He does not believe the connection between baptism and salvation or the remission of sins.

Then he quotes all of the passages about the NAME of Jesus Christ but blames the Oneness Pentecostals fof using the SAME universal COMPREHENDING of Jesus' simple statement.

"The nearest approach to a formal announcement of the doctrine of the Trinity which is recorded from Our Lord's lips, or, perhaps we may say, which is to be found in the whole compass of the NThas been preserved for us, not by John, but by one of the synoptists. It too, however, is only incidentally introduced, and has for its main object something very different from formulating the doctrine of the Trinity.

It is embodied in the great commission which the resurrected Lord gave His disciples to be their 'marching orders even unto the end of the world.'

"It does not say, 'In the names [plural] of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost";

nor yet 'In the name of the Father,
and in the name of the Son,
and in the name of the Holy Ghost,'
as if we had to deal with three separate Beings. (Int Std Bible Ency., p. 3017)


The VEIL still remains UNZIPPED because you deny that THE LORD IS THAT SPIRIT
Even with my slight grasp of English Grammar, I understand that

The Name OF the Father means the Name by which the Father is called.
The ONE GOD does not have a name: He said just call me "I exist." Because everyone had a "god" the way to identify the TRUE God is to identify Him with a person or event.

If you want to exercise extra authority and use a formula you must say "In the name OF Jehovah."

Donnie wants you to give us the NAME of The Holy Spirit. Scratch "THE" and just say HOLY SPIRIT which literally means a Pure Mind expressed in Breath.

You MUST give The Holy Spirit A NAME, say "David." Then if you grasp reading 101a you MUST raise your hands and say:

I baptize you in the name Jehovah, I baptize you in the name Jesus and I baptize you in the name David.

But, Jesus said the Name OF. It all boils down to being able to read black text on white paper.

The man Jesus of Nazareth has a NAME: His name is not SON but Jesus. The "another Comforter" has a name: it is Jesus Christ the Righteous.

1John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you that ye may not sin. And if any man sin, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:


Jesus received the Promise of Holy Spirit: that means the evangelistic role of Jesus in His glorified state and He "poured out what you see and hear."

Father, in the sense that it is used means TEACHER. God breathed the WORD into Jesus who then SPOKE only what that breath-spirit revealed to Him. For the Church as HIS kingdom and New Creation. The Father had been with the Apostles when they saw Jesus. However, Jehovah had not been "uniquely" with them because He fills the universe.

God the father does not have a name. The holy spirit does not yet have a name. Therefore, you are stuck with grammar 101a:

Eph. 5:20 giving thanks always for all things in the NAME of our Lord Jesus Christ to God, even the Father;
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Bill
Bill

May 2nd, 2016, 6:55 pm #35

IS THERE ANYONE HERE THAT CAN TELL ME "WHY" I SHOULD "NOT" BE BAPTIZED USING THE VERY WORDS OF JESUS ??
Sarge,

Donnie and Ken seem to be establishing themselves as revolutionaries or even as rogues in the church of Christ. We all know their stand against Jesus being God, against Jesus being eternal, against Jesus predating His physical birth, against Jesus being the Word, and even against singing hymns. Now they're creating a revolution about baptism. All people I know in the church of Christ were baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. But Donnie and Ken come along and imply that we should be baptized in the name of Jesus only, simply because "His name is above all names." Of course, we know that Jesus' name is above all names of humans and pagan deities, but certainly not above God Himself. Donnie and Ken imply that using Jesus' own words for baptism in Matt. 28:19 is not the way to go. That just doesn't add up. I still submit that Donnie objects to that wording because it reminds him of that which sticks in his theological craw -- the "Trinity."

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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

May 2nd, 2016, 7:53 pm #36

Even with my slight grasp of English Grammar, I understand that

The Name OF the Father means the Name by which the Father is called.
The ONE GOD does not have a name: He said just call me "I exist." Because everyone had a "god" the way to identify the TRUE God is to identify Him with a person or event.

If you want to exercise extra authority and use a formula you must say "In the name OF Jehovah."

Donnie wants you to give us the NAME of The Holy Spirit. Scratch "THE" and just say HOLY SPIRIT which literally means a Pure Mind expressed in Breath.

You MUST give The Holy Spirit A NAME, say "David." Then if you grasp reading 101a you MUST raise your hands and say:

I baptize you in the name Jehovah, I baptize you in the name Jesus and I baptize you in the name David.

But, Jesus said the Name OF. It all boils down to being able to read black text on white paper.

The man Jesus of Nazareth has a NAME: His name is not SON but Jesus. The "another Comforter" has a name: it is Jesus Christ the Righteous.

1John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you that ye may not sin. And if any man sin, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:


Jesus received the Promise of Holy Spirit: that means the evangelistic role of Jesus in His glorified state and He "poured out what you see and hear."

Father, in the sense that it is used means TEACHER. God breathed the WORD into Jesus who then SPOKE only what that breath-spirit revealed to Him. For the Church as HIS kingdom and New Creation. The Father had been with the Apostles when they saw Jesus. However, Jehovah had not been "uniquely" with them because He fills the universe.

God the father does not have a name. The holy spirit does not yet have a name. Therefore, you are stuck with grammar 101a:

Eph. 5:20 giving thanks always for all things in the NAME of our Lord Jesus Christ to God, even the Father;
I just sent an e-mail to my good fiend: He has a degree--212 F--from Babble University. He is also a certified Greek Geek.

Dear fiend: "What is the name OF your wife?"
Fiend just responded: "My wife's name is wife."

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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

May 2nd, 2016, 8:25 pm #37

(This original post submitted on April 24 2016, 6:40 AM)


The name Jesus used was "the Holy Spirit". Your argument is with Jesus.


Matthew 28:16-20 (NIV)
The Great Commission

16 Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."
Bill errs greatly. He rejected the historic and still majority view of churches of Christ especially those who did not get H. Leo Boled at David Lipscomb College and milk-fed by his gospel advocate.

The neo-trinity is apostasy and is REVOLTING against Scripture and the thesis of the American Restoration movement continuing John Calvin's proposal to RESTORE THE CHURCH OF CHRIST by simply REMOVING everything added without Biblical authority.

http://www.piney.com/HsACTrin.html

There is no originator or definer of the "TRIAS" of the Greeks that did not prove the always-antithetical Bible view.

Alexander Campbell agreeing with historic scholarship beyond the Catholic's whose trinity is Father, Mary MOTHER of God and little helpless Jesus needing Mary as the MEDIATRIX.

Only the apostates Bill follows especially LU who invented his tritheism believed in the trinity. Bill should find us some evidence which says that Jesus WAS-IS Jehovah-Elohim or Lord-God of the Jews.

John Mark Hicks gives Max Lucado and Rubel Shelly "credit" for INVENTING a new trinity because there is no biblical scholar who ever fell so far as to say that God is three, separated person, each with their own center of consciousness and each with their special talent.

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Bill
Bill

May 2nd, 2016, 9:04 pm #38


Good article, be sure to watch the video.

https://carm.org/religious-movements/on ... jesus-name
Yes, it's a good article. It also emphasizes that "in the name of" means "by the authority of" and that those who reject baptism in the name of (ie, by the authority of) the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit do so mainly because they reject the Trinity. Though Jesus uses those words in Matt. 28:19, biased Christians still have the gall to reject them just because they erroneously think Jesus is referring to the "Trinity."

So when someone tells you not to baptize using Jesus' own words, steer clear of that person, because s/he'll lead you to perdition.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

May 2nd, 2016, 9:08 pm #39

(This original post submitted on April 24 2016, 6:40 AM)


The name Jesus used was "the Holy Spirit". Your argument is with Jesus.


Matthew 28:16-20 (NIV)
The Great Commission

16 Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."
John Mark Hicks and Earl Edwards still promote the view invented by H. Leo Boles and the foundation of Lipscomb Universities even if they have to twist and writhe.

http://www.piney.com/AC.Letter.Grew.Trinity.html



<font face="arial" size="4">All of the latter-day what John defined as ANTICHRISTS sneak in and take tidbits from Scripture and the Restoration Scholars claim that Campbell was a TRINITARIAN who only resisted the strange jargon. That is because the Thought Leaders and even heads of universities get their sheepskins from denominations whose later-day spawn of professors have nothing BEFORE THEM who agree with them. They get their extorted learning from the text books written by professors and professors and professors and NEVER point to original documents.

John Mark Hicks does not "ignore" the Bible but depends on "theology." We have noted that worship teams and the word THEOLOGY point to Apollon-Abaddon and his locusts-muses. John called them sorcerers.

Simon Acts 8:11 And they gave heed to him, because that of long time he had amazed them with his sorceries.

ma^geia , hē, A.theology of the Magians, “m. hē Zōroastrou” Pl.Alc.1.122a.
II. magic, tc.; tēn goētikēn m. oud' egnōsan hoi magoi goēt-ikos , ē, on, (goēs) A.skilled in witchcraft, juggling

Aristot. Met. 6.1026a Now all causes must be eternal, but these especially; since they are the causes of what is visible of things divine. Hence there will be three speculative philosophies: mathematics, physics, and theology— [20] since it is obvious that if the divine is present anywhere, it is present in this kind of entity; and also the most honorable science must deal with the most honorable class of subject. The speculative sciences, then, are to be preferred to the other sciences, and "theology" to the other speculative sciences. One might indeed raise the question whether the primary philosophy is universal or deals with some one genus or entity;

theolog-eō ,
A.discourse on the gods and cosmology, Arist. Metaph.983b29; “peri tinōn”c.; Dia auton ton Phaethonta [Jupiter, son of Apollo]



</font>
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

May 3rd, 2016, 7:38 am #40

Yes, it's a good article. It also emphasizes that "in the name of" means "by the authority of" and that those who reject baptism in the name of (ie, by the authority of) the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit do so mainly because they reject the Trinity. Though Jesus uses those words in Matt. 28:19, biased Christians still have the gall to reject them just because they erroneously think Jesus is referring to the "Trinity."

So when someone tells you not to baptize using Jesus' own words, steer clear of that person, because s/he'll lead you to perdition.
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Bill,

Again: "By the authority of" is not the issue.

Again: "ALL POWER" or "ALL AUTHORITY" becomes an issue when Bill rejects the scripture stating that God gave "ALL POWER" to Jesus Christ. The preceding verse (Matt. 28:18) clearly states: "All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth."

It wouldn't hurt to begin believing that God the Father is the giver and Jesus Christ His Son is the receiver of that ALL POWER [or AUTHORITY]. One GAVE; the other WAS GIVEN. Trust other scriptures (4 in Acts relative to baptism) that tell you that there is that "ALL AUTHORITY" in the name of Jesus. And there are several other verses that mention "the name of" Jesus.

The real issue is that Trinitarians use Matt. 28:19 to prove the pagan-influenced, Catholic-invented Trinity dogma of (1) God the Father, (2) God the Son, (3) God the Holy Spirit -- "God in Three Persons" or 3-Gods-in-One. The Catholics have another Trinity dogma -- God the Father, God the Son and the Virgin Mary, Mother of God.

Too bad that God's followers in the O.T. dispensation had no knowledge of the man-made Trinity Creed because they were not baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Assignment for Bill:

(1) Search the online KJV for the number of times "Holy Spirit" [capitalized] occurs in the New Testament. You may count "Holy Ghost" in Matt. 28:19.

(2) Search the online KJV for the number of times "Holy Spirit" [caps, no caps] occurs in the Old Testament.

Bill seems to doubt that Jesus was not given that ALL AUTHORITY by God the Father, and that, therefore, it is not as "complete" to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.[/color]
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