Do our emotions effect the way we perceive truth?

Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

November 29th, 2016, 1:37 am #31

HO...HUM....HO...Hum...


[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Rancor commented: "Days of our Lives." Without music in the background.

Where's "the beef," dude?[/color]
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Stan
Stan

November 29th, 2016, 2:08 am #32

I went back and reread Nancy's post, and want to correct my response. From your post, it would seem this is not done but once a month, and is a new practice. If the practice is done for convenience every week then that is different from once a month. It is a little strange that it is new, and only done once a month. We should all understand that the kingdom is not about food and drink.

Romans 14:17-21 (KJV)
For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost. [18] For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men. [19] Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another. [20] For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence. [21] It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
Dianna and Nancy, I know lots of churches that have a fellowship meal once a month every first Sunday morning or evening, and others that share a meal once a quarter on fifth Sundays. Just saying.

Galatians 4:16
Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?
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Visitor (Rancor)
Visitor (Rancor)

November 30th, 2016, 9:29 am #33

Hi Nancy,

I'm happy things returned to normal. I experienced the same, but it wasn't long before things started going off the rails again. This seems to be part of the methods that can be used to slowly slip in error. They call the method boiling the frogs...you heat water slowly, so the frogs don't jump out. Then before they know what's happening the water is boiling. Be sure to pay attention to every word that comes out of every mouth. I pray this is not occurring at your congregation. You can read more of what has happened in many of our church of Christ congregations at www.piney.com. Ken Sublett has collected many documents and his research at this site. He has an email that you can ask questions too. Should you wish to speak with me, he can give you my email.

You mentioned in another post that there was a meal after the assembly, and I admit I was closed minded about this practice too. People who live in rural areas generally don't have many options to eat out. Many of our congregations are 20 to 30 miles away from town and somewhere to eat. It seems to be a waste of the resources The Lord gave us to drive all over the county to eat a meal or even to drive back home, then be back for the evening assembly.
D.H., I have a solution. Invite all to your house for frog legs.
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Joined: February 11th, 2016, 11:16 pm

December 2nd, 2016, 12:24 am #34

The congregation that I was raised in didn't have fellowship halls, but right down the street was Madison CofChrist, which did have a fellowship hall. Perhaps, having fellowship halls helps to lead away from our understanding just what the assembling together means? Are we there to eat or are we there to teach? Some lines are not meant to be crossed. Unfortunately, practices that seem harmless become part of the downfall of later generations.

We did rent a community center occasionally (1 or 2 times per year) to get together with all members of the congregation. I do cook the meals for my fellowship now, but haven't tried any frog legs lately. I think the market has been cornered on that particular delicacy. Would you care to come procure some for me. I will provide the pond, if you will do the gigging. You probably have more experience. I've only done it once.

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Joined: February 11th, 2016, 11:16 pm

December 2nd, 2016, 1:00 am #35

Dianna and Nancy, I know lots of churches that have a fellowship meal once a month every first Sunday morning or evening, and others that share a meal once a quarter on fifth Sundays. Just saying.

Galatians 4:16
Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?
I know lots of congregations that don't have fellowship halls. It's difficult to get 150 to 200 people into a restaurant. I don't condemn anyone who fellowships out side the assembly, nor do I condemn anyone who has a fellowship hall. Nancy told us that this is a new practice for her particular congregation, and she is uncomfortable with this practice. I don't know for sure, but perhaps she is worried that it will be brought into the assembly, and be instituted as a new act of worship. From what I understand this is exactly what has happened in other congregations. It's the new love feast of the 21st century. What will they think of next? What will our grandchildren be doing? Sorry, I'm just not a progressive liberal when it comes to the assembly of the saints. I'm trying my best to overcome my radical right leanings, and not compromise the truth. TRUTH! This is what needs to be stressed, not what we eat and drink or where we eat and drink. Don't you have homes where you can eat? I will also repeat the verse about not offending someone.

1 Corinthians 11:22 (KJV)
What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not.

Romans 14:21 (KJV)
It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
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Joined: February 11th, 2016, 11:16 pm

December 2nd, 2016, 1:11 am #36

Dianna and Nancy, I know lots of churches that have a fellowship meal once a month every first Sunday morning or evening, and others that share a meal once a quarter on fifth Sundays. Just saying.

Galatians 4:16
Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?
John Mark Hicks certifies the Catholic Mass of killing and eating Jesus while they JUBILATE: The Lord's supper is a moment of gratitude. Thus, the church has historically called it a "Eucharist" from the Greek word which means "thanksgiving." But if it shares in the meaning of the thanksgiving meals of Israel, the Lord's supper needs to be revisioned along the lines of the those meals.
The Lord's supper should be understood as an interactive meal which engages the whole community in joyous, celebrative fellowship with God. If the supper is a thanksgiving meal, why is the dominant practice of the supper so silent, solemn, singular and sad? The supper is a table, not an altar. It is the experience of communion, not the search for atonement.

In the Hebrew Bible the table is a communal act of communion with God characterized by joy (thanksgiving) and rededication (vow). At Solomon's inauguration Israel "ate and drank before the Lord on that day with great joy" (1 Chron. 29:22). It was not a moment of solemn, private silence. It was not an individualistic act. On the contrary, it was an interactive meal which engaged the whole community in joyous, celebrative fellowship with God.

1Cor. 11:26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord’s death till he come.
1Cor. 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord,
unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord

A-1, Adverb, 371, anaxios

is used in 1 Cor. 11:27, of partaking of the Lord's Supper "unworthly," i.e., treating it as a common meal, the bread and cup as common things, not apprehending their solemn symbolic import. In the best texts the word is not found in ver. 29 (see RV).

"a, negative, n, euphonic, axios, "worthy," is used in 1 Cor. 6:2. In modern Greek it signifies "incapable."
axios worthy to be killed instead of him, only fit to be slaves,

To eat or drink unworthily is in general to come to the Lord's table in a careless, irreverent spirit, without the intention or desire to commemorate the death of Christ as the sacrifice for our sins, and without the purpose of complying with the engagements with we thereby assume. The way in which the Corinthians ate unworthily was, that they treated the Lord's table as though it were their own; making no distinction between the Lord's supper and an ordinary meal; coming together to satisfy their hunger, and not to feed on the body and blood of Christ; and refusing to commune with their poorer brethren. This, though one, is not the only way in which men may eat and drink unworthily. All that is necessary to observe is, that the warning is directly against the careless and profane, and not against the timid and the doubting. Charles Hodge

Britannica: According to the EUCHARISTIC doctrine of Roman Catholicism, the elements of bread and wine are "TRANSUBSTANTIATED" into the BODY and BLOOD of Christ; i.e., their whole substance is converted into the whole substance of the body and blood, although the outward appearances of the elements, their "ACCIDENTS," remain.

"Such practices as the ADORATION and reservation of the HOST [Sun Image] follow from this doctrine that the whole Christ is really present in his body and blood in the forms of bread and wine. During the 19th and 20th centuries the Roman Catholic Liturgical Movement put new emphasis on the frequency of communion, on the participation of the entire congregation in the priestly service, and on the Real Presence of Christ in the church as the fundamental presupposition for the Real Presence in the Eucharist.

"In Reformed Christianity, Huldrych Zwingli emphasized the memorial aspect of the Eucharist. John Calvin, however, taught a "real but spiritual presence" of the living Christ, but in the sacramental action rather than in the elements.
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Visitor (Rancor)
Visitor (Rancor)

December 2nd, 2016, 2:55 am #37

The congregation that I was raised in didn't have fellowship halls, but right down the street was Madison CofChrist, which did have a fellowship hall. Perhaps, having fellowship halls helps to lead away from our understanding just what the assembling together means? Are we there to eat or are we there to teach? Some lines are not meant to be crossed. Unfortunately, practices that seem harmless become part of the downfall of later generations.

We did rent a community center occasionally (1 or 2 times per year) to get together with all members of the congregation. I do cook the meals for my fellowship now, but haven't tried any frog legs lately. I think the market has been cornered on that particular delicacy. Would you care to come procure some for me. I will provide the pond, if you will do the gigging. You probably have more experience. I've only done it once.
DH,

Ken probably knows the ins and outs of frog cooking. You should have a party!







=======================

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]How would you like your frog legs boiled, Rancor? Hard-boiled you say? Or the change agents' way?[/color]
Last edited by Donnie.Cruz on December 2nd, 2016, 4:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Dave
Dave

December 2nd, 2016, 5:31 pm #38

I know lots of congregations that don't have fellowship halls. It's difficult to get 150 to 200 people into a restaurant. I don't condemn anyone who fellowships out side the assembly, nor do I condemn anyone who has a fellowship hall. Nancy told us that this is a new practice for her particular congregation, and she is uncomfortable with this practice. I don't know for sure, but perhaps she is worried that it will be brought into the assembly, and be instituted as a new act of worship. From what I understand this is exactly what has happened in other congregations. It's the new love feast of the 21st century. What will they think of next? What will our grandchildren be doing? Sorry, I'm just not a progressive liberal when it comes to the assembly of the saints. I'm trying my best to overcome my radical right leanings, and not compromise the truth. TRUTH! This is what needs to be stressed, not what we eat and drink or where we eat and drink. Don't you have homes where you can eat? I will also repeat the verse about not offending someone.

1 Corinthians 11:22 (KJV)
What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not.

Romans 14:21 (KJV)
It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
Dianne, that verse about offending someone has been abused by a lot of people. Anyone can use that to say that they have been offended by some practice or action from somebody or a group. You offended me because......and therefore you shouldn't do that. Say, for example, in a congregation of 100, how many people will have different interpretations of the Scripture? How many bring past likes and traditions to their present congregation and one wants it this way, and the other that way, and ALL of them scream that it is Scriptural. Don't tell me that as long as it is Scriptural, then it is fine. Most anyone can hold claim to that.

I am sure that Ken will say that his interpretation is only READING and SPEAKING that which is written. Ken and Donnie's interpretation will not hold any more sway than mine or yours. How many times have I shown them the Scripture for what I behold to be the truth and them to blow it off with it being 'OUT OF CONTEXT," or even though it is KJV it still isn't translated properly? The guile of men to think that God isn't powerful enough to have led the KJV translators to bring the Truth to the world in the best way. They show error ONLY when it suits their needs or traditions. They don't believe that God being capitalized or a placement of "the" is significant to matter. This site is evil because they are making a mockery of the Lord's church and His very Word.

Ken believes that he cannot sanctify his errant writings by instilling humor, pictures, greek mythology, middle english, and man-made commentary. It is beyond vulgar and senseless. Donnie just doesn't hold true to what God says in His Word. So many people hide behind traditions and then get ticked if you confront their traditions against the Word, and the Word wins out over their traditions.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

December 2nd, 2016, 10:17 pm #39

John Mark Hicks certifies the Catholic Mass of killing and eating Jesus while they JUBILATE: The Lord's supper is a moment of gratitude. Thus, the church has historically called it a "Eucharist" from the Greek word which means "thanksgiving." But if it shares in the meaning of the thanksgiving meals of Israel, the Lord's supper needs to be revisioned along the lines of the those meals.
The Lord's supper should be understood as an interactive meal which engages the whole community in joyous, celebrative fellowship with God. If the supper is a thanksgiving meal, why is the dominant practice of the supper so silent, solemn, singular and sad? The supper is a table, not an altar. It is the experience of communion, not the search for atonement.

In the Hebrew Bible the table is a communal act of communion with God characterized by joy (thanksgiving) and rededication (vow). At Solomon's inauguration Israel "ate and drank before the Lord on that day with great joy" (1 Chron. 29:22). It was not a moment of solemn, private silence. It was not an individualistic act. On the contrary, it was an interactive meal which engaged the whole community in joyous, celebrative fellowship with God.

1Cor. 11:26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord’s death till he come.
1Cor. 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord,
unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord

A-1, Adverb, 371, anaxios

is used in 1 Cor. 11:27, of partaking of the Lord's Supper "unworthly," i.e., treating it as a common meal, the bread and cup as common things, not apprehending their solemn symbolic import. In the best texts the word is not found in ver. 29 (see RV).

"a, negative, n, euphonic, axios, "worthy," is used in 1 Cor. 6:2. In modern Greek it signifies "incapable."
axios worthy to be killed instead of him, only fit to be slaves,

To eat or drink unworthily is in general to come to the Lord's table in a careless, irreverent spirit, without the intention or desire to commemorate the death of Christ as the sacrifice for our sins, and without the purpose of complying with the engagements with we thereby assume. The way in which the Corinthians ate unworthily was, that they treated the Lord's table as though it were their own; making no distinction between the Lord's supper and an ordinary meal; coming together to satisfy their hunger, and not to feed on the body and blood of Christ; and refusing to commune with their poorer brethren. This, though one, is not the only way in which men may eat and drink unworthily. All that is necessary to observe is, that the warning is directly against the careless and profane, and not against the timid and the doubting. Charles Hodge

Britannica: According to the EUCHARISTIC doctrine of Roman Catholicism, the elements of bread and wine are "TRANSUBSTANTIATED" into the BODY and BLOOD of Christ; i.e., their whole substance is converted into the whole substance of the body and blood, although the outward appearances of the elements, their "ACCIDENTS," remain.

"Such practices as the ADORATION and reservation of the HOST [Sun Image] follow from this doctrine that the whole Christ is really present in his body and blood in the forms of bread and wine. During the 19th and 20th centuries the Roman Catholic Liturgical Movement put new emphasis on the frequency of communion, on the participation of the entire congregation in the priestly service, and on the Real Presence of Christ in the church as the fundamental presupposition for the Real Presence in the Eucharist.

"In Reformed Christianity, Huldrych Zwingli emphasized the memorial aspect of the Eucharist. John Calvin, however, taught a "real but spiritual presence" of the living Christ, but in the sacramental action rather than in the elements.
The Church of Christ (the Rock) defined the only assembly of all of the people. They were gathered in small groups led by non-mercinary men over groups as small as ten families. This was the COMMAND after the fall into idolatry at Mount Sinai and God abandoned the "ritual" people to worship the starry host on their way to captivity and death. Both Amos and Stephen define this so that no one can be accidentially ignorant.

The holy convocation was held on the first and eighth days of festivals and later was observed each REST day which is always attached to 6 days shalt thou labor during planting and harvest season.



In prophecy and fulfillment the Ekklesia assembled or synagogued without change except the day and had one adddition. The Lord's Supper as Eucharist is built on 2,000 years of deliberately NOT reading the Text:

John 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
John 6:52 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?
John 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
John 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
John 6:56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.


Well! If we eat the FLESH of Jesus then He dwells in Us. But, the WE dwell in Him. Get the idea that Jesus is speaking of WE being in a BOX and the BOX being in US. Those OF Truth would never think about literally EATING the flesh and drinking His Blood: that is something out of Paganism where they ate and drank their gods. That "history" the scholars use to mock Bible Disciples is the source of EATING the gods.

“And can any man persuade himself that the gods become mild as they are exhilarated by pleasures, that they long for sensual enjoyment, and, like some base creatures, are affected by agreeable sensations, and charmed and tickled for the moment by a pleasantness which soon passes away... Moreover, every pleasure is, as it were, a kind of flattery of the body, and is addressed to the five well-known senses; but if the gods above feel it, they must partake of those bodies through which there is a way to the senses, and a door by which to receive pleasures.
“We have to examine the argument which we hear continually coming from the lips of the common people, and find embedded in popular conviction, that sacrifices are offered to the gods of heaven for this purpose, that they may lay aside their anger and passion, and they be restored to a calm and placid tranquility, the indignation of their fiery spirits being assuaged.”(Arnobius Against the Heathen, Ante-Nicene, VI, p. 519).


This was the parable to HIDE the truth from what became the CLERGY after Jesus died to remove the laded burden and burden laders. They were OF the World and not lost spirits the Father sent the Son to seek and find and EDUCATE.

This offended the disciples because they would not know the meaning until Jesus revealed it to them outside of the group:

John 6:61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?
John 6:62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
John 6:63 It is the SPIRIT that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the WORDS that I speak unto you, they are SPIRIT, and they are LIFE.
John 6:64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.


The flesh did not come down from the father: the WORD which trinitarians defined as the meaning of SON came down and was UTTERED by Jesus when the Father breathed (not a person) or inspired Him.

The people who speak of the ACT as Holy Communion or Holy Eucharist as the REAL PRESENCE of Jesus teach what they have learned from HISTORY. Churches are mocked as being history-LESS because they do not adopt the decisions of church councils such as those often held at once-Christian Bible Colleges trying to set the RULES for everyone who wants to BUY or SELL at the workshops of evil (Ezekiel's thought)

However, Eucharist simply means a thanksgiving.

The Lord's Supper shows forth or preaches the DEATH of Jesus as the SECOND piece to the church pattern. If you confess that Jesus died for your sins and that He came to deliver the SON or WORD of God then you have nothing of value to do or say or PAY.

Last edited by Ken.Sublett on December 2nd, 2016, 11:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: February 11th, 2016, 11:16 pm

December 3rd, 2016, 12:12 am #40

Dianne, that verse about offending someone has been abused by a lot of people. Anyone can use that to say that they have been offended by some practice or action from somebody or a group. You offended me because......and therefore you shouldn't do that. Say, for example, in a congregation of 100, how many people will have different interpretations of the Scripture? How many bring past likes and traditions to their present congregation and one wants it this way, and the other that way, and ALL of them scream that it is Scriptural. Don't tell me that as long as it is Scriptural, then it is fine. Most anyone can hold claim to that.

I am sure that Ken will say that his interpretation is only READING and SPEAKING that which is written. Ken and Donnie's interpretation will not hold any more sway than mine or yours. How many times have I shown them the Scripture for what I behold to be the truth and them to blow it off with it being 'OUT OF CONTEXT," or even though it is KJV it still isn't translated properly? The guile of men to think that God isn't powerful enough to have led the KJV translators to bring the Truth to the world in the best way. They show error ONLY when it suits their needs or traditions. They don't believe that God being capitalized or a placement of "the" is significant to matter. This site is evil because they are making a mockery of the Lord's church and His very Word.

Ken believes that he cannot sanctify his errant writings by instilling humor, pictures, greek mythology, middle english, and man-made commentary. It is beyond vulgar and senseless. Donnie just doesn't hold true to what God says in His Word. So many people hide behind traditions and then get ticked if you confront their traditions against the Word, and the Word wins out over their traditions.
Dave,

I give you permission to offend as many people as you want
I give you permission to interpret scriptures as you want
I give you permission to believe in 3 gods in 1
I give you permission to put yourself before others
I give you permission to have your own church to have a rock band with some praise singers
I give you permission to believe there is no truth
I give you permission to accept whoever's opinion you are influenced by today or tomorrow

Please give me permission to believe that there is truth, and it was delivered by Jesus Christ. There is either black or white, no middle ground on this issue.
Please give me permission to believe that Ken and Donnie are teaching Truth thru the word.
Please give me permission to believe that there is one God and the man Jesus Christ
1 Timothy 2:5-6 (KJV)
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; [6] Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Please give me permission worship God in spirit and truth.

Actually, permission comes from our Creator. He gave us all free will to follow Him or not.


Ken is teaching us about pagan beliefs, unfortunately, the pagans were crude. If your offended by it then stop reading it, and skip over Ken's post. Or better yet you could go somewhere else where you aren't offended. That advice seemed to work for those churches who offended the old timers in many of the churches across the country. Ken and Donnie are teaching about the history of Christianity as well as the meaning of words. They both have a good grasp of the English language and the rules of grammar. They also devote their time and energy, not to mention their financial means to teach us.

I have been reading the writings of the men who were closer to the time period of the Apostles, and I'm going to agree more with their teaching, as well as Donnie and Ken's, over yours Dave, because it agrees with what Jesus taught. Why don't you read them for yourself and maybe you might understand why Ken and Donnie are teaching what they are teaching. It might help your position if you know what you arguing against. You might also want to brush up on narrative theology and the sad effect it has had on the church. Oh wait, that is the theology you already follow.

I hope you can find a new site where you are not so easily offended! I sincerely believe that is not the motive of this site, but it can have that effect. Jesus told us some would be offended by the truth.




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