Direct Commands and the Law of Silence

Kenneth Sublett
Kenneth Sublett

January 8th, 2003, 3:15 pm #11

Jim, let me pick up one of these--I'm still getting a nap this morning.

I remember reading Lynn Anderson as He Navigated Highland into troubled waters. I think that he spoke of spending 8 or more years conditioning the church to be able to Do the Lord's Supper and TOLERATE some singing while others wanted to worship IN THE SPIRIT.

So, this has been a major SOWING OF DISCORD.

Just this week I was asked for the name of the author of a posted piece I did on the subject: The lady had an AUDIENCE with her elders this week to discuss the issue so possibly they would not have to leave their decades-old church relationship.

Here is the link to a very quick study although common decency should not need PROOF.

http://www.piney.com/LordsSupperSinging.html

Ken
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Kenneth Sublett
Kenneth Sublett

January 8th, 2003, 9:33 pm #12

Brother Sublett,

I didn't include these in the first post because I thought they were a "notch" below the first group. Could you or any others shed some light on these also?

1. observing Christmas or other holidays
2. fruit of the vine must be fermented/not fermented
3. one cup vs. multiple cups
4. no kitchen or eating in the building
5. cannot give to non-Christians, orphan homes, etc.
6. non-baptized not allowed to read Scripture
7. no separated classes
8. Bible versions
9. taking of oaths
10. serving in the military
11. inflicting capital punishment
12. using force to defend oneself or others
13. serving as a government official
14. lifting hands while singing
15. joining a ministerial alliance
16. how God answers prayer
17. fasting
18. who selects and appoints elders
19. singing as the emblems are passed
20. use of church buildings for secular activities
21. building of fellowship halls, gymnasiums, etc.
22. use of an instrument in "church" weddings
23. youth directors, youth rallies, youth camps
24. the six days of creation being literal days
25. the operation of Christian hospitals
26. ministers of education, ministers of music, etc.
27. the baptismal "formula"
28. formal confession before baptism
29. dedicating babies
30. signing contribution pledge cards
31. women wearing shorts and slacks
32. women working outside the home
33. Children's Bible Hour
34. bussing children to services
35. degrees of reward and punishment
36. dress code for men serving the Lord's Supper


JQ
Jim, I had already received my REVELATION but after food and a nap I now have the energy NOT to play your SOWING DISCORD GAME. You just HACK at anyone who tries to address the problems covered by this forum. By SOWING TARES I believe that you intend to try to take the attention off the real problems. That is called Infiltrating and Diverting. The owner of this forum would probably tell you how to set up a forum to construct a CREED which is assuredly in effect on many points even at Madison.

The issue here is what has DELIBERATELY DIVIDED churches of Christ well beyond your list.

You upped the number from 27 separate SECTS of churches of Christ divided over issues to 36. Here is another one just as profound as what seems to mentally dissociate the new anti-church of Christism. You missed the DENOMINATION of those using "a cup with a handle" divided from those who use "a cup without a handle." The difference, JQ, is vital because "everyone knows that a cup hath a handle."

Now, here is WHERE YOU ARE COMING FROM as the are wont to say:

To Wit, Dallas Burdette of Grace Centered Magazine parroting Shelly, Maxey and about 10 or eleven who chant the same MANTRA as if they came out of one mind.

"The Churches of Christ, as a whole, are hopelessly divided over the so-called "worship service" with its five prescribed rituals, namely: praying, singing, preaching, communion (Lord's Supper), and contribution. Out of the present concept of worship has developed a philosophy that has the Churches of Christ deadlocked into endless turmoil.

"As one reads many Church of Christ journals, one quickly perceives that the church has degenerated into a battlefield. It is virtually a war zone. What has created such fighting within the Churches of Christ? Pattern theology is the culprit. Of the twenty-five or more divisions within the Churches of Christ, the various divisions exist over the exact blueprint or pattern to be observed in carrying out the five rituals.

What Burdette, Shelly etc. spouting GRACE fail to tell you is that THEY sowed the tares and then pretend to be surprized when the warefare rages. See this one for some other data.

http://www.piney.com/MuAlMaxey.html

Following the First Great American Awakening on the edge of witchcraft like the new Grace system:

"Historian C. C. Goen has painstakingly identified 321 separations of one kind or another by these New Lights. Some of these splits were healed rapidly. Others led to the continuation of "Separate Congregational', churches. But most eventually became BAPTIST congregations. Baptists like Isaac Backus often appreciated Edwards and his theology.

Because the church of Christ is made up of congregational groups, to suggest 25 divisions has just been hatched up in order to sow discord.

Officially, the Restoration Movement is classed as three groups while Baptists are classed as 27 separate groups. If we use the Burdette multiplier that means 225 separate Baptist denominations.

Counting all of the minor Baptist "denominations" there are 146 separate groups: the Burdette multiplier would make that 1216 separate Baptist groups defined by some Burdette twist.

But it is a fact that churches of Christ are part of NO group.

So MOTHER TRUTH cannot say that churches of Christ are hopelessly divided when there is not a SINGLE DENOMINATION wearing the name "churches of Christ." But, as we have noted, PostModernism which sounds like LYING to us old timers is a NEW way of thinking directly repudiating the olden Bible

When truth awakens one recognizes that there are ZERO denominations among churches of Christ. If there were a thousand congregations then one would find 1000 distinctions allowed by God and the first amendment. However, it is dishonest to suggest that this growing list constitutes divided groups.

We were ALL one cuppers and many denominations use the single chalice (wiped between sips). Our group CONVERTED when TB ran rampant through the community. Why should you be concerned if a group exercises its rights to a special practice and remains aloof from you? There is nothing in the Hohenwald church charter which makes it remotely important to BROTHERLY BOND with another state group and try to IMPORT just to sow discord? Its work is in Hohenwald and it has no need to FELLOWSHIP AND ENDORSE instrumental groups or fall under the Shelly RACA list.

Jim, you may have a pointey head or something which prevents you from confronting any Biblical or historical evidence head on but to MOCK IT. I have no interest in or intention of following the Red Herring trail you are laying. Your creed seems to mock. As to finding Christ you cannot find Him and mock His word: he will plug your ears and poke out your eyes lest you hear and obey (matthew 13; 2 Cor 3).

I am so sad that you did not include: "Can God create a rock He cannot lift"?

Ken Sublett
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JQ
JQ

January 9th, 2003, 6:41 am #13

Brother Sublett,

I can appreciate your response and sincere decline to comment further.

What do you call the porcelain or china receptical that tea is consumed from in a Chinese restaurant? It has no handle. I wonder what it is called. I'll stop tomorrow on my way to NC and find out. I'll let you know next time.

How'd you know I was a "cone head?" I guess it takes one to know one.

JQ


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..............<><



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KS NEMESIS
KS NEMESIS

January 15th, 2003, 3:20 am #14

JQ, Man, you are right on. KS has NO ANSWER to those that refute him. All he can do is ramble incessantly hoping that you will get so confused by his post that you will assume he reBUTted your question.

Your list of doctrinal stances was rather amusing. I would just as soon get rid of most of them and just WORSHIP JESUS. Where did we come up with dress codes and the like. I would wager(oops no gambling either!)that most of the early followers were garbed in dirty tatterd clothing. Imagine Paul or Peter "serving" communion in one of our churches today! They would be run out of most of our "church buildings". And, they would promptly shake the dust off of their feet and attend the nearest Methodist or (God forbid) BAPTIST church. Although they all have the same "doctrinal" problems that we do.

In fact, our whole way of "doing worship" including communion would be foriegn to them. They took communion as a MEAL around a table TOGETHER FACING EACH OTHER! Imagine that today. We cannot even look at each other because we feel that we must look down and EXAMINE ourselves to make sure we are WORTHY to take the bread and cup.

Well, I am doing a Kenny right now so I will leave you with that.

NEMESIS....
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John Waddey
John Waddey

October 24th, 2003, 9:03 am #15

The link in the editorial about the silence of Scripture is located at the Christian Chronicle as the Editor noted:

http://www.christiancourier.com/notes/commandedNot.htm

The problems plaguing churches of Christ under a Period of Tribulation is based on several major thesis.

First, to FACILITATE or MANIPULATE the mind of non-students who are victims of preachifying and versifying is to claim that:

"There is no BIBLICAL authority for the Church of Christ created statement about "Commands, examples and inferences." If you buy that then WE have the authority to make up our own commands. Rubel Shelly pushes this pretty hard and claims that there is no Biblical statement about commandments.

We have posted here to give the false teachers some Biblical and universal historical understanding that the ONLY authority is through God's commands:

http://www.piney.com/ComExamInfer.html

Sermon review of the fellow who took down my old congregation in Seattle using false information and facilitated by Jubilee and the Zoe theatrical worship system.

http://www.piney.com/MailSerMuPro.html

Another article discusses the Jones/Shelly etal claim of no dispensational differences. Therefore, we can grab statements about praise, lifting hands, playing instruments and other comments and even turn the horrible failure of the Exodus into a pattern for Christian worship and community.

The rebuttal is here and proves that everyone understood the distinction between Law and Grace except a few latter day "apostles."

http://www.piney.com/MailSerMuPro2.html

We review Fred Peatross who brings you an Emerging Church of Christ which looks like witchcraft on the law of silence. The false teaching is that non-instrumentalists use this LAW OF SILENCE but it is a fact that instrumentalists use silence as God's Divine Oversight.

http://www.piney.com/FPRSilence.html

Al Maxey, another of the Grace-Centered stable uses false information about the Synagogue to authorize silence.

http://www.piney.com/MaxeySilence.html

The Bible makes it clear that if people do not speak according to the Word it is because "there is no truth in them." Contra Shelly, the Bible promotes direct commands as excluding that which is not commanded.

The law of silence is used ONLY by those who want to introduce TEAMS and LATER INSTRUMENTS by saying: "God hath not said." Congregational singers use the direct command to teach with the Word with the melody in the heart. There are numerous examples of Jesus and Paul repudiating singing OUT OF YOUR OWN SPIRIT or using LIFELESS INSTRUMENTS.

So when you hear that God doesn't command, example or infer, just mark the man down as a false teacher.

If you hear that SILENCE gives authority to help God in this modern era then mark it down that the man is a false teacher, lies about the origination of these views among "ignorant church of Christ people" and is ignorant of the fact that historically all scholars honored the views promoted by Biblical churches of Christ.

They JUST MAKE IT UP to use Hegel (Machiavelli, Hitler, etc) to DISSOCIATE you so that they can ADD their NEW VISIONS for DOING CHURCH. Since they are Post Modern they can JUST MAKE UP THE EVIDENCE and fools love to pay foolers to be fooled.

Kenneth Sublett




It is amazing how many practices common to modern churches are foreign to God's Word.

The Bible knows nothing of denominationalism. This popular concept dominates America's religious scene. Hundreds of different kinds of churches hold different doctrines, wear different names, advocate different ways of salvation, worship in different manners and compete for members with wasteful duplication of resources. Yet the New Testament tells us that Christ established but one church (Matt. 16:18). It is plainly called "one body"(Eph. 4:4; 1:22). Jesus prayed that his disciples would be one as He and His Father are one (John 17:20). He exhorts us all to speak the same things and that there be no divisions among us (I Cor. 1:10). Those that cause divisions in the body of Christ are to be rejected (Rom. 16: 17). How tragic that church leaders have institutionalized religious division and declared it to be respectable.

Scripture knows nothing of church creeds, written by men, to regulate Christian belief and practice. We must obey the will of God (Matt. 7:21). The words of Jesus will judge us (John 12:48). Worship based on the doctrines and commandments of men is declared to be vain (Matt. 15:9). Christ's New Testament is sufficient for every Christian need (II Tim. 3:16-17).

The Word of God knows nothing of administrative councils or governing bodies that control His church. Christ is head over all things to the church (Eph. 1:22). He ordained that each congregation has its own elders and deacons (Acts 14:23; I Tim. 3:1-13). Such organizations are usurpations of his authority.

God's word knows nothing of "salvation by faith only." This most popular Protestant belief is in direct conflict with God's expressed will. James wrote, "Ye see that by works a man is justified and not by faith only" (Jas. 2:24).

It is truly amazing that some folks think they know more about how to run God's business than the Creator Himself. For their presumption they will one day have a rude awakening.

John Waddey
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John Waddey
John Waddey

December 6th, 2003, 10:12 am #16

The link in the editorial about the silence of Scripture is located at the Christian Chronicle as the Editor noted:

http://www.christiancourier.com/notes/commandedNot.htm

The problems plaguing churches of Christ under a Period of Tribulation is based on several major thesis.

First, to FACILITATE or MANIPULATE the mind of non-students who are victims of preachifying and versifying is to claim that:

"There is no BIBLICAL authority for the Church of Christ created statement about "Commands, examples and inferences." If you buy that then WE have the authority to make up our own commands. Rubel Shelly pushes this pretty hard and claims that there is no Biblical statement about commandments.

We have posted here to give the false teachers some Biblical and universal historical understanding that the ONLY authority is through God's commands:

http://www.piney.com/ComExamInfer.html

Sermon review of the fellow who took down my old congregation in Seattle using false information and facilitated by Jubilee and the Zoe theatrical worship system.

http://www.piney.com/MailSerMuPro.html

Another article discusses the Jones/Shelly etal claim of no dispensational differences. Therefore, we can grab statements about praise, lifting hands, playing instruments and other comments and even turn the horrible failure of the Exodus into a pattern for Christian worship and community.

The rebuttal is here and proves that everyone understood the distinction between Law and Grace except a few latter day "apostles."

http://www.piney.com/MailSerMuPro2.html

We review Fred Peatross who brings you an Emerging Church of Christ which looks like witchcraft on the law of silence. The false teaching is that non-instrumentalists use this LAW OF SILENCE but it is a fact that instrumentalists use silence as God's Divine Oversight.

http://www.piney.com/FPRSilence.html

Al Maxey, another of the Grace-Centered stable uses false information about the Synagogue to authorize silence.

http://www.piney.com/MaxeySilence.html

The Bible makes it clear that if people do not speak according to the Word it is because "there is no truth in them." Contra Shelly, the Bible promotes direct commands as excluding that which is not commanded.

The law of silence is used ONLY by those who want to introduce TEAMS and LATER INSTRUMENTS by saying: "God hath not said." Congregational singers use the direct command to teach with the Word with the melody in the heart. There are numerous examples of Jesus and Paul repudiating singing OUT OF YOUR OWN SPIRIT or using LIFELESS INSTRUMENTS.

So when you hear that God doesn't command, example or infer, just mark the man down as a false teacher.

If you hear that SILENCE gives authority to help God in this modern era then mark it down that the man is a false teacher, lies about the origination of these views among "ignorant church of Christ people" and is ignorant of the fact that historically all scholars honored the views promoted by Biblical churches of Christ.

They JUST MAKE IT UP to use Hegel (Machiavelli, Hitler, etc) to DISSOCIATE you so that they can ADD their NEW VISIONS for DOING CHURCH. Since they are Post Modern they can JUST MAKE UP THE EVIDENCE and fools love to pay foolers to be fooled.

Kenneth Sublett




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dear Bro. Waddey:

Question: What does the Bible say about the practice of having responsive readings and lifting up of hands during worship? ZB ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dear Z.B.:

As to responsive readings, I see nothing wrong with such. It seems to me it would be very much like all singing together. It is something we are not used to doing, but it is a practice that has been observed around the world for hundreds of years. Such practices that are neither right nor wrong must not be allowed to become occasions of discord and division.

Lifting up of hands was a "posture" of prayer common among Jews in Bible times. "And Ezra blessed Jehovah...and all the people answered, Amen...with the lifting up of their hands and they bowed their heads and worshiped Jehovah..." (Neh. 8:6). "Let the men pray in every place, lifting up holy hands..." (I Tim. 2:8). Many other verses reflect this practice. Again this is something we have not traditionally done, but that does not make it wrong to do so. Think of it just as kneeling in prayer. Few churches do so in worship today, but a hundred years ago almost all of our churches knelt in prayer. No one should make of this an issue that causes harm to the church. We can worship acceptably without doing so. If to insist on this practice we cause confusion and division that in itself is wrong.

John Waddey
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John Waddey
John Waddey

December 11th, 2003, 11:21 am #17

The link in the editorial about the silence of Scripture is located at the Christian Chronicle as the Editor noted:

http://www.christiancourier.com/notes/commandedNot.htm

The problems plaguing churches of Christ under a Period of Tribulation is based on several major thesis.

First, to FACILITATE or MANIPULATE the mind of non-students who are victims of preachifying and versifying is to claim that:

"There is no BIBLICAL authority for the Church of Christ created statement about "Commands, examples and inferences." If you buy that then WE have the authority to make up our own commands. Rubel Shelly pushes this pretty hard and claims that there is no Biblical statement about commandments.

We have posted here to give the false teachers some Biblical and universal historical understanding that the ONLY authority is through God's commands:

http://www.piney.com/ComExamInfer.html

Sermon review of the fellow who took down my old congregation in Seattle using false information and facilitated by Jubilee and the Zoe theatrical worship system.

http://www.piney.com/MailSerMuPro.html

Another article discusses the Jones/Shelly etal claim of no dispensational differences. Therefore, we can grab statements about praise, lifting hands, playing instruments and other comments and even turn the horrible failure of the Exodus into a pattern for Christian worship and community.

The rebuttal is here and proves that everyone understood the distinction between Law and Grace except a few latter day "apostles."

http://www.piney.com/MailSerMuPro2.html

We review Fred Peatross who brings you an Emerging Church of Christ which looks like witchcraft on the law of silence. The false teaching is that non-instrumentalists use this LAW OF SILENCE but it is a fact that instrumentalists use silence as God's Divine Oversight.

http://www.piney.com/FPRSilence.html

Al Maxey, another of the Grace-Centered stable uses false information about the Synagogue to authorize silence.

http://www.piney.com/MaxeySilence.html

The Bible makes it clear that if people do not speak according to the Word it is because "there is no truth in them." Contra Shelly, the Bible promotes direct commands as excluding that which is not commanded.

The law of silence is used ONLY by those who want to introduce TEAMS and LATER INSTRUMENTS by saying: "God hath not said." Congregational singers use the direct command to teach with the Word with the melody in the heart. There are numerous examples of Jesus and Paul repudiating singing OUT OF YOUR OWN SPIRIT or using LIFELESS INSTRUMENTS.

So when you hear that God doesn't command, example or infer, just mark the man down as a false teacher.

If you hear that SILENCE gives authority to help God in this modern era then mark it down that the man is a false teacher, lies about the origination of these views among "ignorant church of Christ people" and is ignorant of the fact that historically all scholars honored the views promoted by Biblical churches of Christ.

They JUST MAKE IT UP to use Hegel (Machiavelli, Hitler, etc) to DISSOCIATE you so that they can ADD their NEW VISIONS for DOING CHURCH. Since they are Post Modern they can JUST MAKE UP THE EVIDENCE and fools love to pay foolers to be fooled.

Kenneth Sublett




———————————————————————————————————————————
A brother from New England wrote the following lines in response to a recent article on the Silence of the Scriptures:

• "We deny the authority of silence. It is unscriptural and divisive"
• "The fact is that never once in the sacred scripture is this law...ever mentioned"
• "The so-called ‘authority of silence' is such a creed, dreamed up by sectarians within our heritage and saddled upon the people of God."
• "We do it to uphold the traditions of our fathers who were often good but ignorant men living on the frontier."
• "It is impossible to remain shackled to the past. The nerveless fingers on the skeletal hands of our fathers reaching from the sepulcher must relinquish their grip upon us.
• "It is also important to recognize that neither permission nor prohibition is part of the nature of Scripture..."

SB
———————————————————————————————————————————

———————————————————————————————————————————
The sacred principle he refers to and rejects is demonstrated in numerous places in God's Holy Word. It is seen in God's commands to Noah regarding the Ark. Could he have built it by a different scale and still been blest" (Gen. 6:13-22). It was applied in the case of Nadab and Abihu who offered strange, i.e., unauthorized fire in their ministrations before God (Lev. 10:1-10). Again it was enforced when David transported the Ark of God by a method different from that ordained (I Chron. 13:6-10). It was expressed by the apostles who wrote concerning certain Jewish preachers who were commanding Gentiles to be circumcised, "We have heard that certain who went out from us have troubled you wit words...to whom we gave no commandment" (Act. 15: 24).
———————————————————————————————————————————

———————————————————————————————————————————
Dear Bro. S B:

Thanks for taking time to share with me your thoughts about the silence of the Scriptures. I take it you would have not problem with the use of incense, counting beads, burning sacred candles, clergy garments, infant baptism, rock bands, buttermilk and cornbread for communion just to mention a few items that come to mind.

While today you hold membership in a church of Christ, tomorrow you may well be at home in a church that someone other than Christ established. After all he did not forbid men to start their own churches, did he? The ideas you are advocating are precisely those advocated by the brethren who led so many members of the Restoration Movement into what is now the Disciples of Christ/Christian Church denomination. You could easily move into their fellowship. They would gladly welcome you and you would have no basis to question any of their practices.

Where your views take hold, the concept of restoring New Testament Christianity will surely die out. How tragic to be part of such destruction. If you wish to stay among our people, I pray that you will rethink your attitude towards the authority of God's Word.

Sincerely in Christ,

John Waddey
E-Mail: JOHNWADDEY@aol.com
http://www.christianity-then-and-now.com
———————————————————————————————————————————
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Kenneth Sublett
Kenneth Sublett

December 11th, 2003, 2:22 pm #18

The link in the editorial about the silence of Scripture is located at the Christian Chronicle as the Editor noted:

http://www.christiancourier.com/notes/commandedNot.htm

The problems plaguing churches of Christ under a Period of Tribulation is based on several major thesis.

First, to FACILITATE or MANIPULATE the mind of non-students who are victims of preachifying and versifying is to claim that:

"There is no BIBLICAL authority for the Church of Christ created statement about "Commands, examples and inferences." If you buy that then WE have the authority to make up our own commands. Rubel Shelly pushes this pretty hard and claims that there is no Biblical statement about commandments.

We have posted here to give the false teachers some Biblical and universal historical understanding that the ONLY authority is through God's commands:

http://www.piney.com/ComExamInfer.html

Sermon review of the fellow who took down my old congregation in Seattle using false information and facilitated by Jubilee and the Zoe theatrical worship system.

http://www.piney.com/MailSerMuPro.html

Another article discusses the Jones/Shelly etal claim of no dispensational differences. Therefore, we can grab statements about praise, lifting hands, playing instruments and other comments and even turn the horrible failure of the Exodus into a pattern for Christian worship and community.

The rebuttal is here and proves that everyone understood the distinction between Law and Grace except a few latter day "apostles."

http://www.piney.com/MailSerMuPro2.html

We review Fred Peatross who brings you an Emerging Church of Christ which looks like witchcraft on the law of silence. The false teaching is that non-instrumentalists use this LAW OF SILENCE but it is a fact that instrumentalists use silence as God's Divine Oversight.

http://www.piney.com/FPRSilence.html

Al Maxey, another of the Grace-Centered stable uses false information about the Synagogue to authorize silence.

http://www.piney.com/MaxeySilence.html

The Bible makes it clear that if people do not speak according to the Word it is because "there is no truth in them." Contra Shelly, the Bible promotes direct commands as excluding that which is not commanded.

The law of silence is used ONLY by those who want to introduce TEAMS and LATER INSTRUMENTS by saying: "God hath not said." Congregational singers use the direct command to teach with the Word with the melody in the heart. There are numerous examples of Jesus and Paul repudiating singing OUT OF YOUR OWN SPIRIT or using LIFELESS INSTRUMENTS.

So when you hear that God doesn't command, example or infer, just mark the man down as a false teacher.

If you hear that SILENCE gives authority to help God in this modern era then mark it down that the man is a false teacher, lies about the origination of these views among "ignorant church of Christ people" and is ignorant of the fact that historically all scholars honored the views promoted by Biblical churches of Christ.

They JUST MAKE IT UP to use Hegel (Machiavelli, Hitler, etc) to DISSOCIATE you so that they can ADD their NEW VISIONS for DOING CHURCH. Since they are Post Modern they can JUST MAKE UP THE EVIDENCE and fools love to pay foolers to be fooled.

Kenneth Sublett




God never told the Israelites: "Now, after I have given you a covenant of grace--The Book of the Covenant--I don't want you to rise up to PLAY" where PLAY means MUSICAL IDOLATRY. But, when they DID, God gave them THE BOOK OF THE LAW and answered their prayer: turned them over to worship the starry host."

Paul in 2 Corinthians 3 says that the JEWS were still blind and deaf (explained in Isa 6 and 29) when MOSES was read. They would not be able to COMPREHEND the deep mysteries until they turned to Jesus Christ for the cleansing of their spirit. Over at Smith Springs they can read the PREDESTINATION passages and be TOTALLY blind to Paul explaining it to mean the salvation of BOTH Jews and Gentiles.

SO WE KNOW THAT IT IS TRUE that God was virtually silent until Jesus came:

"I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. Deut 18:18

"And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him. Deut 18:19

"But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name,

....which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that PROPHET shall DIE. Deut 18:20

JESUS DEFINED HIS ROLE A SON TO INCLUDE NOT SPEAKING ANYTHING HE HAD NOT HEARD FROM THE FATHER. Son spoke where the Father spoke and was SILENT when the FATHER was silent. Pretty powerful for BELIEVERS.

Oh, some singy clappy with a whiney piney heart gonna say, "But YOU have toilet paper." JUST Satanic diversion from the MAJOR ISSUES.

Paul obeyed in his teaching and which Paul commanded for us:

"Now, brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit,

so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying,

Do not go beyond what is written then you will not take pride in one man over against another." 1 Corinthians 4:6

IT IS THE PROMOTERS OF EFFEMINATE MUSIC WHO USE THE LAW OF SILENCE:

"God never saith: THOU SHALT NOT use an organ." Therefore, we GONNA add an organ knowing WE GONNA sow discord and chase off old servant J. W. McGarvey."

LITERATE BIBLE students can hear God warning about instruments to SEXUALLY SEDUCE beginning in the garden of Eden and ending in Revelation 18. Therefore, NO ONE in hitory every THOUGHT of finding proof for instruments in the Bible because they knew that God WAS NOT SILENT.

CATHOLICS UNDERSTOOD THE LAW OF SILENCE: THEY SIMPLY GAVE THEMSELVES AUTHORITY TO VIOLATE IT. SPEAKING WHERE THE BIBLE SPEAKS AND BEING SILENT WHERE THE BIBLE IS SILENT IS AS OLD AS THE CHURCH.

http://www.piney.com/FathIgnatiusEphesians.html

Chapter XV.-Exhortation to Confess Christ by Silence as Well as Speech.

"It is better for a man to be silent and be [a Christian], than to talk and not to be one. It is good to teach, if he who speaks also acts.

"There is then one Teacher, who spake and it was done; while even those things which He did in silence are worthy of the Father.

"He who possesses the word of Jesus, is truly able to hear even His very silence, that he may be perfect, and may both act as he speaks, and be recognised by his silence.

"There is nothing which is hid from God, but our very secrets are near to Him.

"Let us therefore do all things as those who have Him dwelling in us, that we may be His temples,and He may be in us as our God, which indeed He is, and will manifest Himself before our faces. Wherefore we justly love Him.

Even the word SELAH is not thought to be a signal for everyone to be silent and meditate on the verse READ.

Ken
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K.S
K.S

December 11th, 2003, 8:16 pm #19

Even the word SELAH is not thought to be a signal for everyone to be silent and meditate on the verse READ

Should read:

Even the word SELAH is NOW thought to be a signal for everyone to be silent and meditate on the verse READ
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Kenneth Sublett
Kenneth Sublett

December 20th, 2003, 11:55 pm #20

The link in the editorial about the silence of Scripture is located at the Christian Chronicle as the Editor noted:

http://www.christiancourier.com/notes/commandedNot.htm

The problems plaguing churches of Christ under a Period of Tribulation is based on several major thesis.

First, to FACILITATE or MANIPULATE the mind of non-students who are victims of preachifying and versifying is to claim that:

"There is no BIBLICAL authority for the Church of Christ created statement about "Commands, examples and inferences." If you buy that then WE have the authority to make up our own commands. Rubel Shelly pushes this pretty hard and claims that there is no Biblical statement about commandments.

We have posted here to give the false teachers some Biblical and universal historical understanding that the ONLY authority is through God's commands:

http://www.piney.com/ComExamInfer.html

Sermon review of the fellow who took down my old congregation in Seattle using false information and facilitated by Jubilee and the Zoe theatrical worship system.

http://www.piney.com/MailSerMuPro.html

Another article discusses the Jones/Shelly etal claim of no dispensational differences. Therefore, we can grab statements about praise, lifting hands, playing instruments and other comments and even turn the horrible failure of the Exodus into a pattern for Christian worship and community.

The rebuttal is here and proves that everyone understood the distinction between Law and Grace except a few latter day "apostles."

http://www.piney.com/MailSerMuPro2.html

We review Fred Peatross who brings you an Emerging Church of Christ which looks like witchcraft on the law of silence. The false teaching is that non-instrumentalists use this LAW OF SILENCE but it is a fact that instrumentalists use silence as God's Divine Oversight.

http://www.piney.com/FPRSilence.html

Al Maxey, another of the Grace-Centered stable uses false information about the Synagogue to authorize silence.

http://www.piney.com/MaxeySilence.html

The Bible makes it clear that if people do not speak according to the Word it is because "there is no truth in them." Contra Shelly, the Bible promotes direct commands as excluding that which is not commanded.

The law of silence is used ONLY by those who want to introduce TEAMS and LATER INSTRUMENTS by saying: "God hath not said." Congregational singers use the direct command to teach with the Word with the melody in the heart. There are numerous examples of Jesus and Paul repudiating singing OUT OF YOUR OWN SPIRIT or using LIFELESS INSTRUMENTS.

So when you hear that God doesn't command, example or infer, just mark the man down as a false teacher.

If you hear that SILENCE gives authority to help God in this modern era then mark it down that the man is a false teacher, lies about the origination of these views among "ignorant church of Christ people" and is ignorant of the fact that historically all scholars honored the views promoted by Biblical churches of Christ.

They JUST MAKE IT UP to use Hegel (Machiavelli, Hitler, etc) to DISSOCIATE you so that they can ADD their NEW VISIONS for DOING CHURCH. Since they are Post Modern they can JUST MAKE UP THE EVIDENCE and fools love to pay foolers to be fooled.

Kenneth Sublett




One of the values of reading scholars prior to Gomer Pyle is that MOST OF THE TIME you find that the TROUBLERS IN ISRAEL with their Phds from stolen universities taught to be Prophets, Chanellers and Facilitators, just LIE about the Bible. The specific is to make fun of PATTERNS which DENIES God the right to command His creatures.

They claim to be AMONG THE SCHOLARS and cannot even quote the Bible or history without lying. Why, if they want to STEAL the universities they don't have to lie just to get the pittance from churches of Christ who turn their children into HOSTILE AGENTS.

Here is one I ran across just tonight: you cannot understand if you don't STUDY.

Clement of Alexander (for whatever he had wrong)

b. AD 150, Athens
d. between 211 and 215

For the whole of piety is hortatory, engendering in the KINDRED faculty of REASON a YEARNING after TRUE LIFE now and to come. But now, being at once CURATIVE and PRECEPTIVE, following in His OWN steps, He makes what had been prescribed the subject of persuasion, promising the CURE of the passions within us.

Let us then designate this WORD appropriately by the one name Tutor (or Poedagogue, or Instructor).

The Instructor being practical, not theoretical, His aim is thus to IMPROVE the SOUL, not to teach, and to train it up to a virtuous, not to an intellectual life. Although this same word is DIDACTIC, but not in the present instance.

For the WORD which, in matters of "DOCTRINE," EXPLAINS and REVEALS, is that whose province it is to TEACH.

But our EDUCATOR (Gal. iii. 24) being practical, first exhorts to the attainment of right dispositions and character,

...and then PERSUADES us to the energetic practice of our duties,

...enjoining on us "PURE COMMANDS,"

...and EXHIBITING to such as come after representations of those who FORMERLY WANDERED in error.

Both are of the highest utility,-that which assumes the form of COUNSELLING to OBEDIENCE,

...and that which is presented in the form of "EXAMPLE";

...which latter is of TWO kinds, corresponding to the former duality,-

....the ONE having for its purpose that we should CHOOSE and IMITATE the good,

....and the other that we should REJECT and TURN AWAY from the OPPOSITE.

Hence accordingly ensues the HEALING of our passions, in consequence of the assuagements of those examples;

....the Paedagogue strengthening our souls, and by His benign "COMMANDS," as by gentle MEDICINES, guiding the sick to the perfect knowledge of the TRUTH.

Chapter II.-Our Instructor's Treatment of Our Sins.

Now, O you, my children, our INSTRUCTOR is like His Father God, whose SON He is, SINLESS, blameless, and with a soul devoid of passion;

God IN THE FORM OF man, stainless, the minister of His Father's will, the Word who IS God, who is IN the Father, who is at the Father's right hand, and with the form of God IS GOD.

He is to us a spotless image; to Him we are to try with all our might to ASSIMILATE our SOULS.

The people who DENY this have DENIED that Christ came in the flesh and lives with us IN and AS the Spirit. They are filled with the SPIRIT OF SATAN to tell you that a Holy God WAS UNABLE to keep the WORD from loosing ALL of its power but "seven facts ABOUT JESUS."

One who is IN Christ is a Disciple: he has and is being DISCIPLED by Baptism and teaching what JESUS COMMANDED. Only DISCIPLES are Christians. If you see CHURCH as giving to God who PLANNED to give to you as the ONLY TEACHER, then you are deep into paganism. God is NOT IN NEED and cannot, like all pagans, be PROPPED up by singing praise songs or doing acts DEVOID of the Word being "taught as it has been taught."

Religion--all of it--belongs to Satan. The church is the Synagogue of Christ: a School of the Bible. It has no praise service anymore than the school teaching you to be a mechanic fills the class time with, singing and music and a text book CUT UP into bits and pieces. But, then, Paul said that "fools love to be fooled."

God is God and we are not. Anyone who denies God the right to command you to do something without making you JUDGMENTAL, SECTARIAN, LEGALISTIC BROTHER KILLERS is picking your pockets--and you deserve them one and all.

Ken
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