Did They Need It?

Did They Need It?

Anonymous [Dave Fields]
Anonymous [Dave Fields]

January 3rd, 2013, 5:45 pm #1

Did Jesus have to supply wine for the wedding for the wedding to be a success? Was He fulfilling the desire to continue a tradition of having wine at the marriage celebration?
Which leads one to another thought.....considering the above dilemma and thought....would Jesus object to the tradition of instrumental music (compared to the tradition of voice only)? We don't need instruments to worship God (no more than they needed wine for a Marriage celebration), but the instruments would not preclude a meaningful worship to God (no more than wine would hinder a meainingful marriage celebration)......now would they???





HAPPY NEW YEARS!!!

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[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]David Fields, let's be honest and unashamed: claim [ ]the message you authored.[/color]
Last edited by Donnie.Cruz on January 4th, 2013, 3:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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B
B

January 4th, 2013, 7:38 am #2

Does the church of Christ use voice-only (a cappella) music because of man-made "tradition" or because it is the only music that the New Testament specifies for us to use on earth? Had Jesus authorized Paul to say, "Singing with optional instrumental accompaniment and making melody in your heart to the Lord," then we would be free to sing a cappella OR to sing with musical accompaniment. But that's NOT what the New Testament says.

No, we don't need instruments to praise God in Christian worship. Those who think that instruments make worship more "meaningful" conveniently forget that such a premise stems from a worldly desire to please themselves. They think that anything that pleases them automatically pleases God.

If you want to please God, you do EXACTLY what Jesus tells you to do. You also do EXACTLY what Jesus through His apostles tells you to do. Do you really think that you can please God by second-guessing Him and adding more to any of His commands than what He specifies therein? Remember the neither-add-to-nor-take-from command.

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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

January 4th, 2013, 7:11 pm #3

Lenski says that anyone who thinks that Jesus would manufacture and distribute up to 160 gallons of intoxicants to an ALREADY drunk wedding is ANXIOUS to mar the character of Jesus.

An alternative reading is to "give wine to those who are perishing." Mary obviously wanted Jesus to do a magical trick.

Otherwise, the BEST wine is freshly expressed and without skill rapidly goes down hill.

Odyssey 9. Then I bade the rest of my trusty comrades to remain there by the ship and to guard the ship, [195] but I chose twelve of the best of my comrades and went my way.

With me I had a goat-skin of the dark, sweet wine, which Maro, son of Euanthes, had given me, the priest of Apollo, the god who used to watch over Ismarus. And he had given it me because we had protected him with his child and wife [200] out of reverence; for he dwelt in a wooded grove of Phoebus Apollo.

And he gave me splendid gifts: of well-wrought gold he gave me seven talents, and he gave me a mixing-bowl all of silver; and besides these, wine, wherewith he filled twelve jars in all, [205] wine sweet and unmixed, a drink divine. Not one of his slaves nor of the maids in his halls knew thereof, but himself and his dear wife, and one house-dame only.

And as often as they drank that honey-sweet red wine he would fill one cup and pour it into twenty measures of water, [210] and a smell would rise from the mixing-bowl marvellously sweet; then verily would one not choose to hold back. With this wine I filled and took with me a great skin, and also provision in a scrip; for my proud spirit had a foreboding that presently a man would come to me clothed in great might, [215] a savage man that knew naught of justice or of law.


All of the teachings of Jesus are for OUR LEARNING: they are not intended to make into dogma spun out of tipsy heads.

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Rocky
Rocky

January 5th, 2013, 4:05 pm #4

Ken said:

All of the teachings of Jesus are for OUR LEARNING: they are not intended to make into dogma spun out of tipsy heads.

***********************

Ken, it would be nice if you quoted something from the Bible. Odyssey 9?, Lenski?, really? If you are going to throw us a bone at least give us some meat on it.
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Rocky
Rocky

January 5th, 2013, 4:46 pm #5

Does the church of Christ use voice-only (a cappella) music because of man-made "tradition" or because it is the only music that the New Testament specifies for us to use on earth? Had Jesus authorized Paul to say, "Singing with optional instrumental accompaniment and making melody in your heart to the Lord," then we would be free to sing a cappella OR to sing with musical accompaniment. But that's NOT what the New Testament says.

No, we don't need instruments to praise God in Christian worship. Those who think that instruments make worship more "meaningful" conveniently forget that such a premise stems from a worldly desire to please themselves. They think that anything that pleases them automatically pleases God.

If you want to please God, you do EXACTLY what Jesus tells you to do. You also do EXACTLY what Jesus through His apostles tells you to do. Do you really think that you can please God by second-guessing Him and adding more to any of His commands than what He specifies therein? Remember the neither-add-to-nor-take-from command.
Perhaps, the gulity dog ("B") is barking. Maybe "B" is gulity of violating the "NATNTFC"? "B" would have the book of Enoch ADDED to the Bible. "B" believes Enoch was inspired and therefore should be a book of the Bible.


https://www.christiancourier.com/articl ... y-of-enoch
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

January 5th, 2013, 5:53 pm #6

Ken said:

All of the teachings of Jesus are for OUR LEARNING: they are not intended to make into dogma spun out of tipsy heads.

***********************

Ken, it would be nice if you quoted something from the Bible. Odyssey 9?, Lenski?, really? If you are going to throw us a bone at least give us some meat on it.
I needed you to know that ALL of the "scholars" agree with me.
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Rocky
Rocky

January 5th, 2013, 6:21 pm #7

Ken, are you and "Lenski" holding hands on infant baptism?
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

January 5th, 2013, 6:32 pm #8

Perhaps, the gulity dog ("B") is barking. Maybe "B" is gulity of violating the "NATNTFC"? "B" would have the book of Enoch ADDED to the Bible. "B" believes Enoch was inspired and therefore should be a book of the Bible.


https://www.christiancourier.com/articl ... y-of-enoch
He thinks that the spirit (breath) of God is another people about the size of God!

I never said it was inspired: A Bible disciple knows that the writers quote LOTS of none inspired writers: the scholars get tenure as PHDS and Greek scholars without having a clue that you have to look to the secular scholars to understand a single WORD of the Bible. Unless, as they want you to believe that they have a Greek-English-Latin-Hebrew written and published at the time.

For instance, they do not know or care that the word PSALLO never, ever in recorded history, past-present-future ever had the SLIGHTEST musical content. It means PLUCK with your fingers and NEVER with a guitar pick. Now, they will lie, cheat and steal the church house, church family, relationships and money (given to the lourd-e-uh) by saying that when Paul said PLUCK that gives them authority and even a command to sow massive discord.

The Book of Enoch (found in the dead sea Scrolls and therefore older than any NIV) simply tells the story that ALL slow ones of the fast group knew about using music to frazzle your brains and convince you that YOUR free deer now belonged to Jubal and YOU have to pay HIM.

Now, why would you believe a The-O-Lite trained to use his imagination [or hears "a" spirit) say that God commanded "instrumental praise" and YOU "had better not disobey that command of God? Or a "musical worship teams" (an oxymoron)--

--when the Spirit OF Christ and Enoch tells you that SATAN brought the wind, string and percussion instruments when he-she-it was cast as profane (that halal word) into the garden of Eden as the singing and harp playing prostitute?

Furthermore, the Spirit OF Christ tells you that the SIGN of God driving His enemies into "hell" is the same wind, string and percussion instruments used as sorcery to deceive the whole world (almost). And John calls them SORCERERS who HAD deceived the whole world and THE will be cast alive into the lake of fire.

Jude 14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying,
Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

Jude 15 To execute judgment upon all,
and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds
which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches
which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

Jude 16 These are , complainers, walking after their own lusts;
and their mouth speaketh great swelling
words, having mens persons in admiration because of advantage.

Grumbling(1112) (goggusmos from goggúzo = to say anything in a low tone, English = gong).

1114 goes A conjurer, and enchanter; a deceiver, an impostor.stammers--those who speak confusedly on divine things (compare Ex 4:10-12 Jer 1:6 Mt 10:19,20). Or, rather, those drunken scorners who in stammering style imitated Isaiah's warnings to mock them [MAURER]

gos , tos, o(,A. sorcerer, wizard, Phoronis 2, Hdt.2.33, 4.105, Pl.R. 380d, Phld.Ir.p.29 W.; g. epdos Ludias apo khthonos E.Ba.234, cf. Hipp.1038; prob. f.l. for bosi Hdt.7.191.


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Rocky
Rocky

January 5th, 2013, 6:39 pm #9

Ken, that's good to know info. However, I was addressing "B".
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B
B

January 5th, 2013, 7:20 pm #10

Perhaps, the gulity dog ("B") is barking. Maybe "B" is gulity of violating the "NATNTFC"? "B" would have the book of Enoch ADDED to the Bible. "B" believes Enoch was inspired and therefore should be a book of the Bible.


https://www.christiancourier.com/articl ... y-of-enoch
As I recall, the Bible does not ever state that the books from Genesis to Revelation constitute the WHOLE biblical canon. A bunch of MORTAL MEN decided what would be the canon many centuries ago. People must think those mortal men were infallible, just like the Catholics have the half-baked idea that the Pope is infallible. So perhaps men (like Rocky) are guilty of omitting the Book of Enoch from the canon. Surely Enoch was inspired, because he made a prophecy about God, which Jude included in his epistle. An inspired man like Jude would NOT have included something as important as a prophecy about God if that prophecy had not also been inspired.

Now since Rocky doesn't believe that Enoch was inspired, then perhaps Rocky in turn doesn't believe that Jude was inspired. Perhaps Rocky has torn out that section in Jude with Enoch's prophecy about God. Or worse, perhaps Rocky has ripped out Jude's epistle altogether from his Bible. BTW, didn't Dave (who also believes Enoch was a fluke) urge Rocky to rip Jude from his Bible?
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