Did They Need It?

B
B

January 9th, 2013, 5:22 am #61

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Dave,

The Bible mentions several names of books, some of which are in the Bible and some of which are not in the Bible. What are the chances that the biblical canonizers will include the following books once or if ever they're found?[/color]

<ol>[*]the book of Jasher (Josh. 10:13)
</li>[*]the book of the acts of Solomon (I Kings 11:41)
</li>[*]the book of Nathan the prophet (I Chron. 29:29)
</li>[*]the book of Gad the seer (I Chron. 29:29)
</li>[*]the book of Shemaiah the prophet and of Iddo the seer (II Chron. 12:15)
</li>[*]the book of Jehu the son of Hanani (II Chron. 20:34)
</li>[*]the book of the records of thy fathers (Ezra 4:15)</li>[/list]
Dave would be much more likely to vote for making Rick Warren's The Purpose Driven Church and The Purpose Driven Life a part of the biblical canon than he would the Book of Enoch.
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Scripture
Scripture

January 9th, 2013, 5:34 am #62

Dave, oh Dave, you keep ASSUMING that Genesis through Revelation is the "complete" canon, as mortal men have decided. Don't you know that Revelation does NOT state that there are only 66 books in the biblical canon? Don't you know that Revelation does NOT state that it is the last and final book of God's Word? Revelation simply warns not to add to or take from what is written in the Word of God. So, Dave, how do you know for sure that what we have is THE COMPLETE canon, THE COMPLETE Word of God? Can you not prove somewhere in the Scriptures that the "complete" Word of God is limited to only 66 books?
Isn't all this posturing because some want to use information outside the 66 books to prove something about instrumental music?

Don't many reject the Old Testament because it carries some teachings that are contrary [or at least with odds with] some New Testament teaching?

Don't many want to reject Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John because they contain some observance of the Sabbath, and because the thief on the cross was predicted to be in Paradise?

Don't we take passages such as 1 Corinthians 11, first few verses, and say they were cultural because they address women's hair and covering?

At the least, if women were covered there would have to be all this money spent on hair!
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Anonymous
Anonymous

January 9th, 2013, 5:41 am #63

Did Jesus have to supply wine for the wedding for the wedding to be a success? Was He fulfilling the desire to continue a tradition of having wine at the marriage celebration?
Which leads one to another thought.....considering the above dilemma and thought....would Jesus object to the tradition of instrumental music (compared to the tradition of voice only)? We don't need instruments to worship God (no more than they needed wine for a Marriage celebration), but the instruments would not preclude a meaningful worship to God (no more than wine would hinder a meainingful marriage celebration)......now would they???





HAPPY NEW YEARS!!!

=========================

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]David Fields, let's be honest and unashamed: claim [ ]the message you authored.[/color]
B,
You asked me a question. I asked you one earlier.

You said "God does not have to make an exhaustive list of every act, deed, practice, and object on this earth that is sinful."
God has already listed every sin known to man. Name something that occurs, in thought or deed, which isn't listed?

Now B doesn't like Revelation 22 18-19 anymore.

The Preacher's Files
Sermon outlines, Bible Studies, Audio Sermons and more by preachers for the church of Christ.
By Mike Riley

A querist asks, How would you prove that the Bible is completely finished and that adding to the Bible is no longer necessary?

Is The Bible Complete?

Paul states in 2 Timothy 3:16-17, All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. The phrase, All scripture is all inclusive of all the inspired words (or writings Gk. graphe) of God (cf. 2 Peter 1:20-21; John 6:63).

2 Peter 1:3 tells us that we have been given all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him. The knowledge of Christ (2 Peter 1:2) can be fully known by a study of both Old and New Testaments, which contain the totality of inspired scripture (Psalm 119:160; Psalm 139:17). Without a knowledge of the totality of the inspired scriptures, how could we have been given all things that pertain to life and godliness?

Jude 1:3 tells us that the faith was once for all delivered to the saints. The meaning here is that the Gods truth has been once delivered for all time. It is a permanent delivery from God that will never be superseded, amended or modified (Deuteronomy 4:2; Proverbs 30:6; Revelation 22:18-19; cf. Gal. 1:6-12).

Additionally, James 1:25 states, But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth [therein], he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed. The word perfect in this passage is translated from the Greek word, teleios which signifies having reached its end (telos), finished, complete, perfect. In James 1:25, the word is referring to the complete revelation of Gods will and ways, whether in the completed Scriptures or in the hearafter (Vines, 1996, p. 466).

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Dave Fields____________
[Poster][/color]
Last edited by Donnie.Cruz on January 9th, 2013, 5:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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B
B

January 9th, 2013, 5:44 am #64

I believe that both "B" and "Rocky" would hide the 66 books in a jar under a rock, like the Nag Hammadi texts were hidden, should some earthly power seek to destroy or eradicate them.

They would both do that. They would save the books for posterity.
If Enoch and other books were proven to be inspired and the biblical canon expanded, you would have to hide those books in a jar under a rock to keep Dave from learning about them. Dave would go ballistic; his "tradition" of 66 would be shattered forever.

BTW, in school we all were taught that there were nine planets in our solar system. Then suddenly there were eight, because mortal astronomers decided that Pluto was no longer a conventional planet. Although God created the heavenly bodies, man decided what was a "planet" and what wasn't. Man also decided which ancient books were "God-inspired" and which were not.
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B
B

January 9th, 2013, 2:16 pm #65

B,
You asked me a question. I asked you one earlier.

You said "God does not have to make an exhaustive list of every act, deed, practice, and object on this earth that is sinful."
God has already listed every sin known to man. Name something that occurs, in thought or deed, which isn't listed?

Now B doesn't like Revelation 22 18-19 anymore.

The Preacher's Files
Sermon outlines, Bible Studies, Audio Sermons and more by preachers for the church of Christ.
By Mike Riley

A querist asks, How would you prove that the Bible is completely finished and that adding to the Bible is no longer necessary?

Is The Bible Complete?

Paul states in 2 Timothy 3:16-17, All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. The phrase, All scripture is all inclusive of all the inspired words (or writings Gk. graphe) of God (cf. 2 Peter 1:20-21; John 6:63).

2 Peter 1:3 tells us that we have been given all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him. The knowledge of Christ (2 Peter 1:2) can be fully known by a study of both Old and New Testaments, which contain the totality of inspired scripture (Psalm 119:160; Psalm 139:17). Without a knowledge of the totality of the inspired scriptures, how could we have been given all things that pertain to life and godliness?

Jude 1:3 tells us that the faith was once for all delivered to the saints. The meaning here is that the Gods truth has been once delivered for all time. It is a permanent delivery from God that will never be superseded, amended or modified (Deuteronomy 4:2; Proverbs 30:6; Revelation 22:18-19; cf. Gal. 1:6-12).

Additionally, James 1:25 states, But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth [therein], he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed. The word perfect in this passage is translated from the Greek word, teleios which signifies having reached its end (telos), finished, complete, perfect. In James 1:25, the word is referring to the complete revelation of Gods will and ways, whether in the completed Scriptures or in the hearafter (Vines, 1996, p. 466).

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Dave Fields____________
[Poster][/color]
BCV in the Scriptures, Dave. Where do the Scriptures limit the Word of God to only 66 books? Surely you can find the passage and let us know. Now get crackin'!
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Rocky
Rocky

January 9th, 2013, 4:32 pm #66

Old Rocky and most "elders" make CERTAIN that they fleece the widows and honest wage earners to PROCURE them a preacher who will NOT teach that which has been taught. And musicians who make certain that NO TEXT is sung as commanded and exampled until the Reformation.

So, how many of the 66 books -- especially the prophets and apostles does Rocky make certain are presented AS COMMANDED.

Colossians 4:16 And when this epistle is read among you, cause that it be read also in the church of the Laodiceans; and that ye likewise read the epistle from Laodicea.
1Thessalonians 5:27 I charge you by the Lord that this epistle be read unto all the holy brethren.


Now, it takes LOTS of P.hds to whine THERE AIN'T NO CENI so I gonna SELL you that which is NOT COMMANDED.

If you had nothing but the book of Enoch you would understand that musical performance is said to be SATANIC. How many sermons would you need to say, NO, God commanded instrumental worship.

In the words of Paul, the MANY fleeced Corinth because "fools love to be fooled." ain't it the trut?

Oh! holy Rocky Top: it DON'T say "thou shalt not SANG the letters after you rewrite them." Guess I will never learn.

Ken said:

Oh! holy Rocky Top: it DON'T say "thou shalt not SANG the letters after you rewrite them." Guess I will never learn.


**************************


Ken, #2 was my intention.

spoof
transitive verb \spüf\


Definition of SPOOF


1: deceive, hoax


2: to make good-natured fun of DING!..... DING!..... DING!.....

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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

January 9th, 2013, 7:17 pm #67

Did Jesus have to supply wine for the wedding for the wedding to be a success? Was He fulfilling the desire to continue a tradition of having wine at the marriage celebration?
Which leads one to another thought.....considering the above dilemma and thought....would Jesus object to the tradition of instrumental music (compared to the tradition of voice only)? We don't need instruments to worship God (no more than they needed wine for a Marriage celebration), but the instruments would not preclude a meaningful worship to God (no more than wine would hinder a meainingful marriage celebration)......now would they???





HAPPY NEW YEARS!!!

=========================

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]David Fields, let's be honest and unashamed: claim [ ]the message you authored.[/color]
2 Peter 1:3 tells us that we have been given all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him. The knowledge of Christ (2 Peter 1:2) can be fully known by a study of both Old and New Testaments, which contain the totality of inspired scripture

There is not a command, example or remote inference in the whole Bible and early church history of anyone assemblying to SING as a congregation with instrumental accompaniment. Therefore, you have to hallucinate the ADDITION of instruments and that defines a sectarian or HERETIC.

On the other hand the Prophets and Apostles repudiate ANY of they hypocritic or performing arts when the group assembles to "use one mind and one mouth" to speak "that which is written for our learning."

What part of "that which is written for our learning" is so difficult to understand that all of the ADDERS say there is NOT information about how to PERFORM a worship service?

http://www.piney.com/2.Peter.1.html

However the Church of Christ is built upon (educated by) the Prophets and Apostles. The Church is not built upon the Civil-Military-Priestly complex which God turned over to worship the starry host. (Acts 7). Now, if God abandoned the Jews to be carried 'beyond Babylon' (meaning no return) because of musical idolatry, The Spirit OF Christ in the prophets says that the Scribes and Pharisees, Hypocrites (self-speakers, singers, instrument players, fleecers) were ROBBERS and PARASITES.

God BREATHED the story of the SKIA [shadow] or the "totally erroneous system" and He BREATHED the Jewish "covenant with Death and Hell" (names of gods), but He DID NOT "inspire" them in the scholarly view that anything written in the Bible BECOMES inspired if they want to write their OWN narrative and demand that YOU pay them to teach THEIR adding to and subtracting from the TEXT.

Now, the TWO-THREAD history of the people means that only The Book of The Covenant taught in the synagogues beginning in the wilderness was taught in a Spiritual sense. The Laws were read at rare tribal gatherings to KEEP you from picking up sticks and dying.

Peter spoke of the PROPHETS and not "the old testament" including the law of Moses given because of transgression meaning "musical idolatry of the Egyptian trinity IDOLIZED by Apis the bull calf."

The DNA for making a child is NOT inspired if you decide to chop it up into pieces and put it back together in a song or sermon.








Last edited by Donnie.Cruz on January 10th, 2013, 3:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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B
B

January 9th, 2013, 7:41 pm #68

BCV in the Scriptures, Dave. Where do the Scriptures limit the Word of God to only 66 books? Surely you can find the passage and let us know. Now get crackin'!
Dave, ya tried Revelation, but that didn't say anything about the canon being limited to 66 books, then ya backed up and tried James with the same results. Ya want to keep trying other books or finally admit that the Scriptures just don't give a single clue about how many books actually comprise the "complete" Word of God?
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

January 9th, 2013, 8:34 pm #69

Did Jesus have to supply wine for the wedding for the wedding to be a success? Was He fulfilling the desire to continue a tradition of having wine at the marriage celebration?
Which leads one to another thought.....considering the above dilemma and thought....would Jesus object to the tradition of instrumental music (compared to the tradition of voice only)? We don't need instruments to worship God (no more than they needed wine for a Marriage celebration), but the instruments would not preclude a meaningful worship to God (no more than wine would hinder a meainingful marriage celebration)......now would they???





HAPPY NEW YEARS!!!

=========================

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]David Fields, let's be honest and unashamed: claim [ ]the message you authored.[/color]
Yes, PROPHETS and APOSTLES written FOR OUR MEMORY. No! hit dont say "thou shalt NOT be a mocker or mockeree!"

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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

January 10th, 2013, 12:52 am #70

Did Jesus have to supply wine for the wedding for the wedding to be a success? Was He fulfilling the desire to continue a tradition of having wine at the marriage celebration?
Which leads one to another thought.....considering the above dilemma and thought....would Jesus object to the tradition of instrumental music (compared to the tradition of voice only)? We don't need instruments to worship God (no more than they needed wine for a Marriage celebration), but the instruments would not preclude a meaningful worship to God (no more than wine would hinder a meainingful marriage celebration)......now would they???





HAPPY NEW YEARS!!!

=========================

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]David Fields, let's be honest and unashamed: claim [ ]the message you authored.[/color]
(Psalm 119:160; Psalm 139:17). Without a knowledge of the totality of the inspired scriptures, how could we have been given all things that pertain to life and godliness?

<font face="arial" size="4">(Psalm 119:160; Psalm 139:17). Without a knowledge of the totality of the inspired scriptures, how could we have been given all things that pertain to life and godliness?

Psa 119:107 I am afflicted very much:
quicken me, O Lord, according unto thy word.

Psa 119:108 Accept, I beseech thee,
<font color="#FFFFFF">.....
the freewill offerings of my mouth,
.....O Lord, and teach me thy judgments.


Worship is IN the mind or spirit. David did not worship with instruments.
God creates the fruit of the lips for in whom there is BREATH.

.....Isaiah 57:19 I create the fruit of the lips;
..........Peace, peace to him that is far off, and to him that is near,
..........saith the LORD; and I will heal him.

.....Isaiah 57:20 But the wicked are like the troubled sea, when it cannot rest,
..........whose waters cast up mire and dirt.
..........Isaiah 57:21 There is no peace, saith my God, to the wicked.

Paul understood Jesus to say that worship was not in PLACES or HOUSES or on MOUNTAINS but in SPIRIT and IN TRUTH. Tat never changed:

.....Hebrews 13:13 Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach.
.....Hebrews 13:14 For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.
.....Hebrews 13:15 By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually,
..........that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name.
.....Hebrews 13:16 But to do good and to communicate forget not:
..........for with such sacrifices God is well pleased.
.....Hebrews 13:22 And I beseech you, brethren, suffer the word of exhortation:
..........for I have written a letter unto you in few words.

Psa 119:109 My soul is continually in my hand:
.....yet do I not forget thy law.

Psa 119:147 I prevented the dawning of the morning, and cried:
.....I hoped in thy word.

Psa 119:148 Mine eyes prevent the night watches,
.....that I might meditate in thy word.

Psa 119:149 Hear my voice according unto thy lovingkindness:
.....O Lord, quicken me according to thy judgment.

Psa 119:170 Let my supplication come before thee:
.....deliver me according to thy word.

Psa 119:171 My lips shall utter praise,<b>
.....<b>when thou hast taught me thy statutes.


Psa 119:172 My tongue shall speak of thy word:
.....for all thy commandments are righteousness.</b></b>


Your assignment, if you choose to accept it, it to explain why people who ADD instruments because they are NOT in God's commands, examples or inferences can escape the judgment of despising (blaspheming) the Holy Spirit OF Christ.

Instruments DO NOT have anything to do with life or godliness: the Jews made instrumental noise because they had a covenant with DEATH and HELL.
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