David Young and North Boulevard: Extreme Discipling

Sarge
Sarge

June 3rd, 2014, 12:01 am #31

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Besides being fully aware now of the apostolic directive to SPEAK in order to teach and admonish concerning that which is written, you can also get rid of your confusion of someone here ever indicating that congregational singing is sinful.[/color]
Donnie you have bailed out Ken many times on the "speak only" issue. I think Ken considers church vocal tuneful singing to be BLASPHEMY. He will endorse speak only or chanting. I suspect we will get a muddy non-relevant response from Ken. JMHO
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

June 3rd, 2014, 1:35 am #32

Disciples come one at a time: being an attender at a church does not mean that it is devoted to TEACHING nor that the massed multitudes are DISCIPLES. My experience is that most people are simply feathers drifting in the wind.

Here is the MARK of an APT elder and in y 83 plus years I have known a tiny few who are recognized because they "are already working in preaching and teaching". The Christ-gifts are APT elders and Ephesians 4 Paul demands that the elders must first CAST OUT the cunning craftsmen or Sophists: rhetoricians, singers, instrument players or actor. Then the ekklesia or synagogue is enable to TEACH THAT WHICH IS WRITTEN FOR OUR LEARNING. Of all of the assemblies Jesus, Paul or Peter attended there is no mention of singing. Singing was introduced about the year ad 373 so that the unwashed Bishop could sing his own songs: these were telling Bible stories in his own words. I don't do "can or can't" but being a DISCIPLE "what does the Word say."



<font face="arial" size="4">Since an APT elder has no WILL of his own and Paul said that we should understand the WILL OF THE LORD and then SPEAK the will of the Lord: none of it is metrical and cannot be sung as in Hollywood, Dollywood or the Grand Ole Opry.

Godly people in the Bible never say "it's okey dokey cause we have found a hole where God HAS NO WILL. They only response of a Christian or Disciple is "It is written."


</font>
I have to agree that IT AIN'T NO SIN. I have tried to make this point several times but it won't stick in brains made of swiss cheese.

It is true: saying that SPEAK means SING, using musical praise teams, using musical instruments, clapping, shouting, dancing etc is NOT the sin.

These are the MARKS in sight and sound to Mark for Avoidance people who hate God (predestination) and tell Him to "shut your face, we do not need nor want to hear from you." How do I know that? I got a special revelation by reading BLACK text on WHITE paper! It is such a SIGN that no one can doubt inspiration. Here is what Job said:

Wherefore do the wicked live, become old, yea, are mighty in power? Job 21:7
Their seed is established in their sight with them,
and their offspring before their eyes. Job 21:8
Their houses are safe from fear, neither is the rod of God upon them. Job 21:9
Their bull gendereth, and faileth not; their cow calveth, and casteth not her calf. Job 21:10
They send forth their little ones like a flock, and their children dance. Job 21:11
They take the timbrel and harp, and rejoice at the sound of the organ. Job 21:12
They spend their days in wealth, and in a moment go down to the grave. Job 21:13

Therefore they say unto God,
<font color="#FFFFFF">.....
Depart from us;
.....for we desire not the knowledge of thy ways. Job 21:14

What is the Almighty, that we should serve him?
.....and what profit should we have,
.....if we pray unto him? Job 21:15


So, they do not BECOME wicked by all of the musical juvenile practices. They PRACTICE music AGAINST God because they ARE WICKED. Therefore, it is good that God gives us a SIGN in all of the instrumental passages.

Lo, their good is not in their hand:
.....the counsel of the wicked is far from me. Job 21:16
How oft is the candle of the wicked put out
.....and how oft cometh their destruction upon them!
.....God distributeth sorrows in his anger. Job 21:17
They are as stubble before the wind, </b>
.....and as <b>chaff
that the storm carrieth away. Job 21:18


This is the baptism of SPIRIT (wind) and FIRE: none of the people who claim "holy spirit power" can grasp that John marks the VIPER RACE</font>
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Sarge
Sarge

June 3rd, 2014, 2:05 am #33

Call in Scripture, maybe Ze can interpret for Ken.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

June 3rd, 2014, 2:26 am #34

Back to basics:

A b c d efg-----
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

June 3rd, 2014, 3:02 am #35

Of the pipe which Jubal handles meaning without authority:

"It (the pipe meaning to love passionately) was apparently a secular instrument and is never listed in the temple orchestra; only in Ps. 150:4 it is mentioned in a religious (but not ritual) function. Its ethos was not blameless at all, as we see from Genesis Rabbah 50:

"The angels said to Lot: There are players of the pipe (organ) in the country, hence it ought to be destroyed. Its rabbinical identification with the aboda, the flute of the notorious Syrian bayaderes, emphasizes the erotic element which already the Hebrew name suggests. (Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible, p. 460, Abingdon).

Organum -Of musical instruments, a pipe, Vulg. Gen. 4, 21; an organ, water-organ: organa hydraulica, -Of a church-organ

Organon, to, ( ) a Musical instrument: a machine for doing hard work in making war and creating the "arousal" in pagan ceremonial legalism

Polemeios: warlike, aoida war-note, of the trumpet, B.17.4
aoid-ê 5. = eppsdê, spell, incantation

Orgi-a rites of the Cabeiri and Demeter. most freq. of the rites of Dionysus, orgia Mousôn Ar.Ra.356

This is the WRATH Paul warned about when he silenced both male and female so that "we might all be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth." Only the WORD is truth.

All musical terms and names of instruments speak of casting a spell: John called the speakers, singers and instrument players in Revelation 18 SORCERERS. They worked UNDER the Mother of Harlots (Rev 17)

Music is the MARK god reserved only for those making war on His people as they try to "wear out the saints" to worship THEM.
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Bill
Bill

June 3rd, 2014, 4:00 am #36

Donnie you have bailed out Ken many times on the "speak only" issue. I think Ken considers church vocal tuneful singing to be BLASPHEMY. He will endorse speak only or chanting. I suspect we will get a muddy non-relevant response from Ken. JMHO
Sarge, according to Donnie, no one here has ever indicated that congregational singing is sinful. It therefore follows that no one here thinks that church vocal tuneful singing is blasphemy.
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

June 3rd, 2014, 5:56 am #37

Donnie you have bailed out Ken many times on the "speak only" issue. I think Ken considers church vocal tuneful singing to be BLASPHEMY. He will endorse speak only or chanting. I suspect we will get a muddy non-relevant response from Ken. JMHO
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]No, Sarge, Ken has the knowledge of the truth and recorded history on his side. He needs nobody else to bail him out.

Using the word "only" out of context can be a very risky thing in an argument. (Bill did this earlier.) I have reviewed this thread and found no indication from any post by me or Ken of the word "only" being misplaced.

In essence, grammatically speaking [and Bill should know this], there is a colossal difference between:

(1) "ONLY SPEAKING" (as THE mode of communication)
--------------------vs.-------------------
(2) SPEAKING "that which is written ONLY"

(1) excludes other modes of communication
(2) excludes man-made doctrines and teachings


As far as "blasphemy" is concerned, the reference to that is found in the title of this thread: "BLASPHEMY OF PREDESTINATION."[/color]
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

June 3rd, 2014, 6:31 am #38

Sarge, according to Donnie, no one here has ever indicated that congregational singing is sinful. It therefore follows that no one here thinks that church vocal tuneful singing is blasphemy.
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]"Congregational singing" in itself is not sinful; an individual Christian singing "unto thy name" (Romans 15:9; James 5:13) is not sinful.

However, I believe that it is no longer "congregational singing":

(1) When the song is lacking or devoid of the teachings of Christ and His apostles, devoid of that which is written for our learning. [Ken has thoroughly and repeatedly explained all about "that which is written" -- not by David Young, Max Lucado, Rubel Shelly and other change agents in the brotherhood.]

(2) When the "Praise Team" is doing the "congregational singing" for the congregants.

Bill, please read my comments to Sarge on "blasphemy."

In regard to "vocal tuneful singing," I appreciate Ken for sharing with us [that includes you even if you refuse to learn from] his knowledge of the history of music in the church. I think you should appreciate the extensive research already done. But, of course, feel free to do research on your own.[/color]
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Sarge
Sarge

June 3rd, 2014, 9:50 am #39

Back to basics:

A b c d efg-----
Matthew 26:26-30

King James Version (KJV)


26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.

27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.

30 And when they had sung an hymn, they went out into the mount of Olives.
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Sarge
Sarge

June 3rd, 2014, 11:55 am #40

I have to agree that IT AIN'T NO SIN. I have tried to make this point several times but it won't stick in brains made of swiss cheese.

It is true: saying that SPEAK means SING, using musical praise teams, using musical instruments, clapping, shouting, dancing etc is NOT the sin.

These are the MARKS in sight and sound to Mark for Avoidance people who hate God (predestination) and tell Him to "shut your face, we do not need nor want to hear from you." How do I know that? I got a special revelation by reading BLACK text on WHITE paper! It is such a SIGN that no one can doubt inspiration. Here is what Job said:

Wherefore do the wicked live, become old, yea, are mighty in power? Job 21:7
Their seed is established in their sight with them,
and their offspring before their eyes. Job 21:8
Their houses are safe from fear, neither is the rod of God upon them. Job 21:9
Their bull gendereth, and faileth not; their cow calveth, and casteth not her calf. Job 21:10
They send forth their little ones like a flock, and their children dance. Job 21:11
They take the timbrel and harp, and rejoice at the sound of the organ. Job 21:12
They spend their days in wealth, and in a moment go down to the grave. Job 21:13

Therefore they say unto God,
<font color="#FFFFFF">.....
Depart from us;
.....for we desire not the knowledge of thy ways. Job 21:14

What is the Almighty, that we should serve him?
.....and what profit should we have,
.....if we pray unto him? Job 21:15


So, they do not BECOME wicked by all of the musical juvenile practices. They PRACTICE music AGAINST God because they ARE WICKED. Therefore, it is good that God gives us a SIGN in all of the instrumental passages.

Lo, their good is not in their hand:
.....the counsel of the wicked is far from me. Job 21:16
How oft is the candle of the wicked put out
.....and how oft cometh their destruction upon them!
.....God distributeth sorrows in his anger. Job 21:17
They are as stubble before the wind, </b>
.....and as <b>chaff
that the storm carrieth away. Job 21:18


This is the baptism of SPIRIT (wind) and FIRE: none of the people who claim "holy spirit power" can grasp that John marks the VIPER RACE</font>
"I have to agree that IT AIN'T NO SIN. I have tried to make this point several times but it won't stick in brains made of swiss cheese."

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A double negative is the use of two negatives in a single clause. Although this construction is used in informal language to intensify a negative meaning, in formal language it is usually considered unacceptable. This is because the words have the effect of canceling each other out, leaving a positive meaning, rather than intensifying a negative.
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