Bill
Bill

June 2nd, 2014, 5:40 pm #21

Granted, the contemporary praise songs today are designed to show off the so-called "talents" of "Christian" artists and are not really suited for congregations. So if the wording of Eph. 5:19 and Col. 3:16 means that we are only to speak the hymns, is it sinful if we sing old standards like "The Old Rugged Cross," "Blessed Assurance," and "Come Thou, Almighty King" in the assembly?
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

June 2nd, 2014, 7:57 pm #22

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]"Speaking" essentially means "reciting" in the assembly [as in "Scripture reading" of] biblical text. It makes sense that in the public assembly, it involves teaching and admonishing "one another" -- we are NOT speaking to God nor are we teaching and admonishing God [He would not appreciate that ].

Speaking to one another in the assembly "as it is written" will always remain as a constant apostolic directive. We cannot change that. Neither singing means speaking nor is singing a substitute for speaking. We should know the difference.

"ONLY": Your usage of that word would be applicable in conjunction with "speaking that which is written" ONLY -- as opposed to what the Pope or Rick Warren says.

"SINFUL": To my knowledge, no one here has ever indicated that in regard to singing "that which is written" as opposed to unbiblical teachings of contemporary "Christian" artists," the Pope or Rick Warren.[/color]
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Bill
Bill

June 2nd, 2014, 8:41 pm #23

Repeatedly emphasizing the word "SPEAKING" in the apostolic directive "SPEAKING to yourselves IN psalms and hymns and spiritual songs" may have originally given some folks the erroneous impression that hymns must only be spoken and not sung. So then it is not sinful to sing hymns that truly praise God, because we can exhort one another to praise Him by singing as well as by speaking. Good. I'm glad we cleared that up.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

June 2nd, 2014, 8:48 pm #24

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]"Speaking" essentially means "reciting" in the assembly [as in "Scripture reading" of] biblical text. It makes sense that in the public assembly, it involves teaching and admonishing "one another" -- we are NOT speaking to God nor are we teaching and admonishing God [He would not appreciate that ].

Speaking to one another in the assembly "as it is written" will always remain as a constant apostolic directive. We cannot change that. Neither singing means speaking nor is singing a substitute for speaking. We should know the difference.

"ONLY": Your usage of that word would be applicable in conjunction with "speaking that which is written" ONLY -- as opposed to what the Pope or Rick Warren says.

"SINFUL": To my knowledge, no one here has ever indicated that in regard to singing "that which is written" as opposed to unbiblical teachings of contemporary "Christian" artists," the Pope or Rick Warren.[/color]
There may be a difference between VAIN religion which follows the teachings of men and SIN. The Purpose Driven Church is to TEACH and ADMONISH one another with THAT WHICH IS WRITTEN FOR OUR LEARNING. Maybe you don't sin but you gained nothing from God and His Word.

Saying that God commanded you to do or IMPOSE and SELL to others when God has not commanded you to do that is called DESPISING the Word. In Latin in Jeremiah 23 Christ called that BLASPHEMY. There probably is not a law against blasphemy.

The people in Corinth wanted to sing out of their OWN SPIRIT: Paul said that "your assemblies do more harm than good." The audience has not sinned but they have been engaged in a franchise selling you deep fried styrofoam.

Rather than BEING a sin, the inability to read the whole text for the distilled inspiration (breath) of God proves that one does not have A holy spirit or A good conscience, consciousness or a Co-perception of the Word. It's true: Paul says that God makes people blind and deaf so they cannot HEAR the Word when it is PREACHED by being READ nor can they READ the text. We have noted but no one takes note, most people

SEE "Speaking one to another in" in the Biblical Text as
"Listen to a few SING that which is NOT written" or even "SINGING psalms, hymns and spiritual songs." Now, tell me that this is not a supernatural sign marking people who are professioned to keep the voice of God silent.

Eph. 5:17 Wherefore be ye not unwise, BUT understanding what the WILL of the Lord is.
Col. 3:15 And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful.

Eph. 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; BUT be filled with the Spirit;
Col. 3:16 Let the WORD of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom;

Eph. 5:19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;
Col. 3:16 TEACHING and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

Eph. 5:20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;
Col. 3:17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him

Eph. 5:21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.
Col. 3:18 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.

Godly people WILL FIND OUT and should never depend on what is sold in the shambles. Those who are SELLERS as opposed to TEACHERS have convinced just about everyone that these passages are to be violated as long as we SOUND GOOD and force everyone to give attention (worship) to performing MY PART good! Is it a sin to SELL paper shoes for the battlefield? You have to answer now or answer later.



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Bill
Bill

June 2nd, 2014, 9:14 pm #25

Maybe congregational hymn-singing is going out of style. According to the article "Why They Don't Sing on Sunday Anymore," congregants are more likely to watch church performers rather than sing with them.

Link:http://holysoup.com/2014/05/21/why-they ... y-anymore/
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

June 2nd, 2014, 9:20 pm #26

Repeatedly emphasizing the word "SPEAKING" in the apostolic directive "SPEAKING to yourselves IN psalms and hymns and spiritual songs" may have originally given some folks the erroneous impression that hymns must only be spoken and not sung. So then it is not sinful to sing hymns that truly praise God, because we can exhort one another to praise Him by singing as well as by speaking. Good. I'm glad we cleared that up.
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]"Speaking" has been well-emphasized because many folks don't even acknowledge or recognize that the word actually exists in the passage. And that historically synagogue worship was not without it.
A scriptural and true, accurate historical perspective should not lead anyone to an "erroneous impression." But that can happen when music, instead of speaking that which is written, dominates one's thinking in letting "the word of Christ dwell in you richly."

It's good to know that you've now been made fully aware of that apostolic directive.[/color]
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Bill
Bill

June 2nd, 2014, 9:40 pm #27

Actually, I'm comforted to know that singing hymns in the assembly to praise God, as congregations have done for hundreds of years, is not sinful and never has been sinful.
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

June 2nd, 2014, 10:24 pm #28

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Besides being fully aware now of the apostolic directive to SPEAK in order to teach and admonish concerning that which is written, you can also get rid of your confusion of someone here ever indicating that congregational singing is sinful.[/color]
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

June 2nd, 2014, 10:42 pm #29

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]"Speaking" has been well-emphasized because many folks don't even acknowledge or recognize that the word actually exists in the passage. And that historically synagogue worship was not without it.
A scriptural and true, accurate historical perspective should not lead anyone to an "erroneous impression." But that can happen when music, instead of speaking that which is written, dominates one's thinking in letting "the word of Christ dwell in you richly."

It's good to know that you've now been made fully aware of that apostolic directive.[/color]
I am glad that some people enjoy loud four-part harmony: some people enjoy sticking pins in mice. Actually churchy music has been highly honed to enhance what Scripture and recorded history calls SORCERY. This is not boiling frog's eyes and making you drink it: it is boiling the audience called frogs. The "frog spirits" are called QUACKS.

Pure, single tones can be pleasing: David would have plucked ONE STRING and then matched his voice to that note. Complex harmony may INTEND to cause discomfort which in turn produces endorphins to heal the damage as in a runner's high.

"Even a dog that is barking "continuously" is really producing a drip, drip, type of non-continuous interruptive irritant, because no matter how small the gap of silence between barks, we can hear it, and our physiological system cannot keep adjusting back and forth, from the sound to the silence, in order to define its level and then mask it. The longer it goes on, the greater the irritant, until it becomes tortuous. Loudness has a little, but not much, to do with it. The irritant is there as long as you can hear it.

RELATION OF THIS TO MUSIC

"The continuity or continuousness of notes in a melody is created because the previous notes often have overtones or harmonies that will usually (not always) match the next note or notes in a fairly audible way. Thus we are hearing "more of the same" (or at least partially more of the same) in the succeeding notes, and this ties notes together into a melody or continuum of sounds and/or harmonies.

<font color="#FFFFFF">.....
and this ties notes together into a melody or continuum of sounds and/or harmonies.
....."This is also what creates a sense of "key" or tonality in music and melody.

"A-tonal music does not have this property of successive overtone relationships, but in fact deliberately defies this, thus creating a discontinuous series of tones, a-melodic, a-tonal and even a-rhytnmic. The result, based upon the information above about discontinuous sounds, produces an irritant, which only acculturated habit or conditioning can overcome in order for one to aquire a sense of appreciation for it. Most of us do not, or can not, do this. -- Bob Fink


When you use the word ENJOY or PLEASURE you actually violate the direct command of Paul who outlawed SELF-pleasure in Romans 15. Both in Greek and Latin the pleasure word includes slick rhetoric, singing, playing an instrument or acting. In all of these someone is feeding you mental images (idols) which absolutely prevents you from--as they claim--worship or give your attention to God through His Word. Self-Pleasure or Ariskos has the same meainging as hairikos or HERESY. A musical imposer is named a HERETIC or SECTARIAN by the Bible.

No one has ever claimed anything but "pleasure" for any form of music compared to "drinking wine or deep sleep."

So, enjoy on: the majority of people in the world hear NOISE or screeching and screaming. The music term is defined as an "old brain" impulse as a cry of pain or panic. PAUL as the REST Jesus promised means STOP the singing, playing, acting or PANIC. PANIC is derived from PAN and the "panic of the religious rite." When you tell the simple mind of most people that your praise singers are "bringing you into the presence of a god" or "bringing a god into your worship service" the NATURAL impulse is panic. Preachers prey (not pray) on people by claiming that a SPIRIT told them to do something or claim that I AM PREDESTINATED--GOD HAS A CROWN ALREADY MADE AND I CANNOT BE LOST they are whistling in the cemetary because such a claim is the wailing cry of a lost person. However, it has the effect of making the simple minded believe him. Scholars note that the more aristocratic or wealthy people can be fooled easier than bubba the grease monkey.</font>
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Bill
Bill

June 2nd, 2014, 11:06 pm #30

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Besides being fully aware now of the apostolic directive to SPEAK in order to teach and admonish concerning that which is written, you can also get rid of your confusion of someone here ever indicating that congregational singing is sinful.[/color]
Oh, I've always known that singing hymns has never been sinful. I was just a bit concerned that, because you repeatedly emphasize "speaking" hymns, some readers might get the odd idea that you believe hymns must only be spoken and not sung. However, since you and I both know there is nothing wrong with singing hymns, I wanted to make sure the readers clearly understood that.
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