Sarge
Sarge

June 1st, 2014, 6:21 pm #11

There's a song that goes "no turning back, no turning back." It irritates people when you quote the opinions of the Jews and others expressed in documents like The Book of Enoch. I will resist the temptation to define words but historic scholars define this as even ATTENDING the performances of the mockers. Here is an example of "a cappella" which is in the style of the pipe organ: the Pope's end run which excluded instruments and the falsetto males could not compete with the literally emasculated. This fits the PATTERN of a church turned into a theater for holy entertainment:


<font face="arial" size="4">Psa. 1:1 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
Psa. 1:2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
Psa. 1:3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.
Psa. 1:4 The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away.
Psa. 1:5 Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.
Psa. 1:6 For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.
Psa. 2:1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?
Psa. 2:2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,
Psa. 2:3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.
Psa. 2:4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.
Psa. 2:5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.
Psa. 2:6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
Psa. 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
Psa. 2:8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
Psa. 2:9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potters vessel.
Psa. 2:10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
Psa. 2:11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
Psa. 2:12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.


Once you have lied and sown so much discord claiming that GOD COMMANDED INSTRUMENTAL--what God always calls NOISE--I believe that you have blasphemed. When Judas tried the musical alarm or triumph over on Jesus He gave them the SOP "acted parable." When people BETRAY Jesus He sends them the MARK of the PSALLO word and no one can stop their tongues but God.
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Once you have lied and sown so much discord claiming that GOD COMMANDED INSTRUMENTAL--what God always calls NOISE--I believe that you have blasphemed.

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Ken, many people believe God commanded SINGING (audible) in Church as well. Do you believe the SINGERS (audible) have BLASPHEMED also?

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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

June 1st, 2014, 7:21 pm #12

Paul commanded that we speak "psalms, hymns and spiritual songs."

We will allow grace to fill in where you read the ACTIVE VERB to mean

"Sing FOR your selves in Psalms, hymns and Spiritual songs."

These are all types of poetry in the BOOK of Psalms.

In a parallel passage in Romans 15 Paul commanded that "we use one mind and one mouth to teach that WHICH IS WRITTEN for our LEARNING."

A Christian is a Disciple and a Disciple is a LEARNER. A Disciple of Christ necessarily learns what Jesus commanded to be taught.

Melody of the Bible type was never tuneful. Scholars note that "melody as tunefulness belongs to the 19th century."

Melody still gets you no more than "a series of single notes." Melody is not related to HARMONY.

You affirm being a NT Christian.
You do not speak OR singing "Psalms, hymns (prayers) and spiritual songs (inspired)."

You make the call: do you have any interest in teaching that which is written for our learning?

I can be dogmatic about the instruments because they are ALWAYS connected to people God turned over to paganism and to BURNING.
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Sarge
Sarge

June 1st, 2014, 7:50 pm #13


Ken, that's an interesting quagmire. I think you have lumped IM and singing (vocal and tuneful) into the same pot. Do you agree?
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

June 1st, 2014, 8:03 pm #14

your task is to tell everyone why you refuse to do what Scripture and church history clearly states.

You can sing any of the Bible text but you cannot sing it "tunefully" because God didn't give you any "measure" to His Words. Therefore, to sing as an ACT you sing whatever pops up just to get through that ACT.

Why would you refuse to go find a rabbi and let him help you sing THAT WHICH IS WRITTEN without the voodoo drum beat? I know a guy who works with Baptists teaching them four part harmony which is a TECHNICALLY, DIFFICULT ar.

The object of a Disciple is to LEARN and mutually confess what Jesus commanded to be taught. You can never bring yourself to do that because dislexia lets you see SPEAK as SING. You've got an additional 167 hours during the weak where you can SING all you wish but Jesus will be there asking "could you not tarry with ME for one hour."

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Sarge
Sarge

June 1st, 2014, 8:25 pm #15



"The object of a Disciple is to LEARN and mutually confess what Jesus commanded to be taught. You can never bring yourself to do that because dislexia lets you see SPEAK as SING."

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Ken, I would not be a "loner" as 99.9% of the local Churches of Christ would agree.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

June 2nd, 2014, 1:10 am #16

North Boulevard Church in Murfreesboro is following in the Path of Madison and fueled by the Calvinists at Lipscomb and other places. North Boulevard went through the Purpose Driven Church and now David is preaching on PREDESTINATION. After dropping all of that money in Murfreesboro, the elders have decided to BLOCK my access to their web pages. So, I will present some of the general Nashville Wrecking Crew's adoption of Calvinism. Whey they say that GOD predestines they REALLY MEAN that the dominant preacher person predestines. They do not know what the Bible teachers or do not care: they can still use the "christian" logo until they get ready to remove CHRIST from their public confession.

http://www.piney.com/David.Young.Northw ... ation.html

Dennis Costella asks:

"So what are some of the changes that must take place for a local assembly to adopt the growth strategy of the Saddleback model? From our understanding of the plan which was clearly spelled out at the seminar, the following must occur in order to transform a traditionally-styled church of any size into one that can boast dramatic growth,

> A contemporary-styled "Seeker Service" aimed at drawing in the unsaved and the unchurched from the community must replace the traditional Sunday worship service. To do this successfully, the church service must be non-threatening, familiar and comfortable to the "seeker" (the unsaved visitor).

> The dress must be casual. The typical "Saddleback Sam" (a researched composite of the unchurched yuppie commonly found in Saddleback Church's surrounding community) dresses up for work all week, and he wants to "dress down" on the weekends. (As we shall see throughout this article, Saddleback Sam's likes and dislikes are what determine the style of the church service.) Warren: "Get comfortable. This is as dressed up as I get in this church. My idea of winter is I put on socks, and obviously I don't think it's winter yet."

> The music must be contemporary. Not only must the lyrics of the music be more recent, but the style of music should be that which the unsaved hears on a daily basis. The entertainment composite of the Saddleback sound system, band, singers and presentation would rival that of any secular rock concert. Warren stated that one of the first things a church should do is "replace the organ with a band." But he went on to say that if a band was not feasible, then at least a church could purchase a keyboard that will incorporate midi disks in order to give the sound of a band.

Furthermore, the purpose of the church choir should be "backing up the soloist. That's the 90's way to use a choir rather than just having them sing."

> The message must be only positive. We consider this to be the most flagrant flaw. Yes, the saved and unsaved alike can feel better about themselves after a message that often mixes psychology and an uplifting Scripture text. Such topics as dealing with guilt, self-esteem, interpersonal relationships, mood enhancement or motivation for success will encourage the worldly, weary individual. But what is God's command to the faithful undershepherd of the flock? Far, far different.

> Like the 'pyramidal structure' God allowed to be imposed by the kings of Israel and Judah as a curse to take away the resources and liberties of the people, the "ministry system" might have 50 "ministries" devoted to meeting secular needs. There are: "Support groups for depression, eating disorders, infertility, family and friends of homosexuals, post abortion, and separated men and women were abundant... We could not find one single ministry listed in Saddleback Community Church's bulletin that involved the taking the Gospel message out to the lost in the community. In fact, Warren scoffed at the idea of passing out tracts or going door-to-door since "Saddleback Sam" is offended by such old-fashion, out-moded forms of evangelism.

> Doctrinal instruction is not given to the church as a whole on the Lord's Day. All things to all people means that if you want to know anything doctrinal you will have to advance to the next stage by joining a small group. This "doctrine" is likely to be a perversion of the Biblical doctrine and message kept within the "next circle" leading to the CORE of leaders.

> You must be willing to compromise if you are to experience dynamic growth. If you state any Biblical fact even on the internet you can identify these "locusts" by their insistance that you cannot say what Jesus said or Paul said without condemning those who don't believe what you believe. Therefore, Dr. Rubel Shelly, Leroy Garrett and the Vineyard group has developed the "core" gospel. This consists of about seven facts "about" Jesus. Everything else must be compromized or perverted in the interest of "unity in diversity."

The embrace of contemporary culture and style will most assuredly set the desired mood that totally opposes the Biblical mandate to earnestly contend for the faith and separate from error. What works, what is least offensive and what is positive and uplifting is what should define the ministry, according to Warren. The church leaders who are interested in dynamic growth must embrace the attitude that says,

"Don't try to tell me the Bible requires holiness and a style for worship and ministry that is different from that of the world."

This "grace-in-your-face" attitude is so prevalent today because of church elders who are not willing, or not aware of how, to instruct ones to behave in the house of God (1 Tim. 3:15).


I believe that John Mark Hicks brought the fatal virus from Memphis: he and Rubel Shelly have led the charge of hate against churches of Christ who will not agree with them. They validate Paul's warning against men who cannot HEAR the Word when it is preached by being READ, nor can they READ black text on brown paper. Of course, they use "theology" instead of the Bible. That is fine for Doctors of the Law whom Jesus said TAKE AWAY THE KEY TO KNOWLEDGE. However, Spurgeon could not find nor invent a word to define the moral depravity of a preacher who would take pay from and group and then betray it.

Lipscomb Celebration. Those not exuding pheromones and are decidedly ANTI-church of Christ and PRO-INSTRUMENTAL music need not apply. None of the Nashville Wrecking Crew has ever mentioned the "music" issue without lying TO God and ABOUT God. Further, they infiltrate (slither, wind)literate Churches of Christ because Paul warned and NAMED them as LYING IN WAIT TO DECEIVE.

It is not possible for anyone who has ever read the Bible to even hallucinate instruments and Visible-Audible females and "wannabes". Jesus named them Sons of Perdition and ANTI-christs because they make the Spirit OF Christ into a buddy and claim that he whispers apostsy into their ears. Here is the picture wine, women (pseudo) and music.



The band of Soul Snatchers will always include those who betrayed the lambs into the hands of wolves (that gender thingy)

http://www.piney.com/David.Lipscomb.Summer.2008.html

http://www.piney.com/David.Lipscomb.Council.2009.html

http://www.piney.com/Lipscomb.Universit ... .2013.html

I believe that Scripture posted this chart: I extended it and maybe someone can up date it. This is the curve that "Bull" Dozered.



<font face="arial" size="4">It has been noted that Calvinism is strong among the Bible leadership at LU: several out of the "Reformed Universities."

The New York (Behind the) Times has just picked up on a trend thats been going on since the early 1990s: Evangelicals Find Themselves in the Midst of a Calvinist Revival. Readers of the piece will learn that some of the hottest evangelical preachers are Calvinist, that John Calvin himself did not read scripture literally, and that Calvinists are sneakyat least according to some opposite-leaning evangelicals who resent how their churches have been infiltrated.

If you look at the "keynoters for one hour" at LU for the last few years you will discover those who have infiltrated and diverted their congregation into instrumental music. Rick Atchley who is still the dressed up darling at LU believes that "a" spirit told him that God commanded instrumental praise. North Boulevard in Murfressboro (my erst while) is representing with the claim that tidbits in the book of psalms means that God COMMANDED INSTRUMENTAL noise. They are going the same way with the introduction of a "praise team" at a new daughter church following the path of Max Lucado and others who use non-instrumental money to establish instrumental churches. Always begin with a sit-down, microphone praise team which is that which is "praised".

</font>
Disciples come one at a time: being an attender at a church does not mean that it is devoted to TEACHING nor that the massed multitudes are DISCIPLES. My experience is that most people are simply feathers drifting in the wind.

Here is the MARK of an APT elder and in y 83 plus years I have known a tiny few who are recognized because they "are already working in preaching and teaching". The Christ-gifts are APT elders and Ephesians 4 Paul demands that the elders must first CAST OUT the cunning craftsmen or Sophists: rhetoricians, singers, instrument players or actor. Then the ekklesia or synagogue is enable to TEACH THAT WHICH IS WRITTEN FOR OUR LEARNING. Of all of the assemblies Jesus, Paul or Peter attended there is no mention of singing. Singing was introduced about the year ad 373 so that the unwashed Bishop could sing his own songs: these were telling Bible stories in his own words. I don't do "can or can't" but being a DISCIPLE "what does the Word say."



<font face="arial" size="4">Since an APT elder has no WILL of his own and Paul said that we should understand the WILL OF THE LORD and then SPEAK the will of the Lord: none of it is metrical and cannot be sung as in Hollywood, Dollywood or the Grand Ole Opry.

Godly people in the Bible never say "it's okey dokey cause we have found a hole where God HAS NO WILL. They only response of a Christian or Disciple is "It is written."


</font>
Last edited by Ken.Sublett on June 2nd, 2014, 1:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

June 2nd, 2014, 2:24 am #17


"The object of a Disciple is to LEARN and mutually confess what Jesus commanded to be taught. You can never bring yourself to do that because dislexia lets you see SPEAK as SING."

****************************

Ken, I would not be a "loner" as 99.9% of the local Churches of Christ would agree.
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Ken points out "... what Scripture and church history clearly states."

Ken's done his research; have you?

Perhaps the antiphonal singing/chanting (in Roman Catholic liturgical music) may best illustrate the directive in each of the following passages:

(1) "SPEAKING TO YOURSELVES IN psalms and hymns and spiritual songs..." (Eph. 5:19)

(2) "... TEACHING AND ADMONISHING ONE ANOTHER IN psalms and hymns and spiritual songs..." (Col. 3:16)


Ken has also stated: "You can sing any of the Bible text but you cannot sing it 'tunefully' because God didn't give you any 'measure' to His Words."

You know, Sarge, Bart Millard's "praise music" titled "I Can Only Imagine" was sung (by the Praise Team) at Madison one Sunday some years ago. "Will I dance for You, Jesus," the song says. Wow! Speaking of Bible text in a song!!! And very "tuneful." Well, this has not been sung since then ... by "the congregation."

You said: "99.9% of the local Churches of Christ would agree [_______]." What percentage would it be ... of the local Baptist Churches? [/color]
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Sarge
Sarge

June 2nd, 2014, 2:10 pm #18


Ken, to satisfy Donnie, will you please inform us of the percentage of coC that "chant" in the worship service instead of vocal tuneful singing. Thanks.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

June 2nd, 2014, 2:32 pm #19

They called it CANTILLATION and not CHANT as in singing with or without instruments: Paul and I call it SPEAK as in "SPEAK that which is written for your LEARNING."

Most of the Churches I have ever attended SPEAK IN TONGUES when they raise their Ebenezer. I knew that the church in Murfreesboro was in a heap of excrement when everyone brought a brick and they raised their Eben-ezer to dedicate their new temple. They THOUGHT that they raised an Eben-ezer in the middle of the Jordan River. Hee Hee! Their Doctor of the Law got his from Vanderbilt

1Sam. 7:12 Then Samuel took a stone, and set it between Mizpeh and Shen, and called the name of it Eben-ezer, saying, Hitherto hath the LORD helped us.

The NEXT step was that the ELDERS fired God an demanded that a SENIOR PASTOR be set over them: God understood that they wanted to WORSHIP like the nations, pagans or Babylonians. God says, okey dokey, but I WILL NEVER SAVE YOU AGAIN.

1Sam. 8:7 And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.
1Sam. 8:8 According to all the works which they have done since the day that I brought them up out of Egypt even unto this day, wherewith they have forsaken me, and served other gods, so do they also unto thee.
1Sam. 8:9 Now therefore hearken unto their voice: howbeit yet protest solemnly unto them, and shew them the manner of the king that shall reign over them.


So the elders set a KING OVER THEM but not before God made a fool of him by causing him to be perverted and prophesy with the Philistines.

Prophetic Types are wonderful things: now they claim that they are predestined and not even God can change the CROWN he crafted for them from eternity past. We get that from Romans 8 but in Romans 10 and 1 Corinthians 10 Paul said that the MARK that they had been marked for burning or death BECAUSE of the musical idolatry of the always-pagan trinity.
Last edited by Ken.Sublett on June 2nd, 2014, 2:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

June 2nd, 2014, 5:24 pm #20

Ken, to satisfy Donnie, will you please inform us of the percentage of coC that "chant" in the worship service instead of vocal tuneful singing. Thanks.
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Sarge,

Do you sing Bart Millard's "I Can Only Imagine" at your local church/congregation? In Alabama (or TN or ______)? I can only imagine that you love this song and that you love singing this song personally?

As pointed out in the initial post in regard to satisfying the need of "the seeker": "The music must be contemporary. Not only must the lyrics of the music be more recent, but the style of music should be that which the unsaved hears on a daily basis."

I think the music is too complex for me and for "congregational singing." Can you "imagine" the congregants "teaching and admonishing one another" with: "Will I dance for You, Jesus"? As in Madison's case, only the "Praise Team" could perform it ... then.

Many of the contemporary "praise songs," not originally designed for church assemblies, are authored, sung and performed by money-making contemporary religious artists -- with instrumental accompaniment, of course. They do not work well with congregations in the church of Christ, even when supplemented with clapping and other strange instrumental-simulating noises. Money-making "Contemporary Christian Music" artists! Twila Paris. Michael W. Smith, Graham Kendrick, et al!

That's an observation of what's going on in a church that may be in transition to the Community Church {Movement} fold.

-----------------------------

The assembly of saints in a New Testament setting is still directed to:

"SPEAKING to yourselves IN psalms and hymns and spiritual songs."

"LET[TING] the word of Christ dwell IN you richly ... teaching and admonishing one another IN psalms and hymns and spiritual songs."[/color]
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