Current Worship Patterns

Current Worship Patterns

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July 24th, 2017, 5:02 pm #1


In response to William in discussion of Sabbath vs Sunday--it is all too typical for announcements to be made, after which the announcer says "Now let us begin worship." William brings up some very good ideas.

Then we have a series of worship songs, usually call "praise songs." These songs are generally all directed to(ward) God with little self-improvement and self-edification, and normally the complete absence of conversion songs. The praise team kicks in, and the audience (trapped worshipers) are asked to stand on their feet for three or four songs.

Normally the songs are those derived from about 1980 or later, with the traditional hymns only a small minority of the songs. The traditional hymns found in the humnals do contain a fairly even distribution of conversion, reflection, duty, and other themes than just praise songs. But these themes are considered irrelevant to today's commercial processing of those who come to worship.

I suspect that William worships in such an environment, as do most readers of this thread.

In some churches, when the "worship" is over, there used to be a final song [to end the worship] and then no telling what is going to take place--items that are not classified as worship, but which are either entertaining and secular or whatever.

I would say that William thinks the "Now let us begin worship" should not be stated.

Many churches which fit this pattern are in the process of "transitioning," but are not clear about what this means. One church is in the process of lowering its pulpits and installing a flat 5 inch high stage to accommodate what is not quite clear. These changes look like the Jimmy Swaggert stage. Often the Lord's Table is considered a distraction, and it may be placed in the back of the auditorium, so this "sacrament" no longer is the focal point, but the stage antics become the attraction. In some churches the baptistry is placed in the foyer.

Rather than extend the invitation at the end of the sermon, the audience is instructed "if there is any way we can help you, let us know. The shepherds are in the foyer to give counsel." The "sacrament" of baptism is not mentioned.

The Lord's Supper (called Communion by the transition teams) and baptism seem to be an artifacts rather than working agents.

At the same time, the preacher often says that all the accomplishments of the church members have not been achieved by them, but by the "Holy Spirit" who opens doors and gives growth. The congregation is also informed that the Lord's Supper is not to be a solemn feast of introspection, but an opportunity to TALK to the person next to you all about the preceding week and about the Lord's and Holy Spirit operation. In some churches, members are asked to take a stone at the start of the worship period, and during the Lord's Supper to bring it forward and place it near the Lord's Table. This is to indicate that the "stone" (hindrance) in the worshiper's life is to be removed during this Supper. These comments may be given by a preacher in his 20s who says he knows more about 1 Corinthians 11 and 12 than all the people who have studied these passages for half a century.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

July 25th, 2017, 2:18 am #2

You might invite someone to show how "worship in the spirit" can be "worship in the flesh."
Find preaching a self-composed sermon as an act of worship
Find listening to a self-composed sermon as an act of worship.
Singing but not the Biblical text as an act of worship.
Reading verse 3d as an act of worship.
Leading others in prayer as an act of worship.
Laying by in store at church as an act of worship.
Paying for "staff" as necessary to enhance the Word.
Calling people out of their rest twice on the first day of the week.
Calling people out of their rest on the fourth day of the week.

This would be a good study.

The Lord's Supper is to show forth or "preach" the Death of Jesus Christ: by examining ourselves we are compelled to sit down, shut up and listen to that which is written for our learning. Making the "communion"

1Cor. 10:16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?

"Give money to make poor pious youths learned clergy, or vain pretenders to erudition; and they pray that they may preach to you; yes, and pay them too. Was there ever such a craft as priestcraft? No, it is the craftiest of all crafts. It is so crafty that it obtains by its craft the means to make craftsmen, and then it makes the deluded support them!" (Campbell, Alexander, Christian Baptist, Dec. 1, 1823, Vol. 1, p. 91).

"Money is of vital consequence in the kingdom of the clergy. Without it a clergyman could not be made, nor a congregation supplied with a 'faithful pastor.' O Mammon, thou wonder-working god!" (Ibid., p. 124).

"'Will you,' said an honest inquirer, 'allow the clergy no salary at all? Will you not allow the poorer class of the clergy a decent little competence?' I replied I have no allowances to make. Let them have what the Lord has allowed them. 'How much is that?' said he, Just nothing at all, said I. A church constituted upon New Testament principles, having its own bishop or bishops, or, as sometimes called, elders, will not, and ought not to suffer them to be in want of any thing necessary, provided they labor in word and doctrine, and provided also, they are ensamples to the flock in industry, disinterestedness, humility, hospitality, and charity to the poor. Such bishops will now be esteemed very highly in love for their words sake; but especially those who, by their own hands, minister not only to their own wants, but also to the wants of their brethren." (Ibid, p. 140).

"That any man is to be paid at all for preaching, i.e. making sermons and pronouncing them; or that any man is to be hired for a stipulated sum to preach and pray, and expound scripture, by the day, month, or year, I believe to be a relic of popery." (Ibid., Vol. 3, p. 185).

"Our Elder labors with his own hands, that he may live honestly..." (Vol. 5, p. 163).

"... our elders labor... for their support, and are not burdensome to the church; but in case of need..." (Vol, 5, p. 95).

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July 25th, 2017, 4:39 am #3

Hymnal: "Glorify Thy Name"

Verse 1. Father, we love You, we worship and adore You, . . . .
Verse 2. Jesus, we love You, we worship and adore You, . . . .
Verse 3. Spirit, we love You, we worship and adore You, . . . .
Chorus Verses 1, 2, and 3: Glorify Thy Name in all the earth. Glorify Thy name, glorify Thy name, Glorify Thy name in all the earth.

This is not the only song found in hymnals we find questionable. However the hymnal selections contain only a few such hymns, when contrasted with the hymns written since about 1960.

Here are some concerns:

1. The love here seems oddly similar to erotic love. . .
2. One doesn't need to state flatly that we "worship" God in order to do just that. Nuance is something the facebook generation seems unable to fathom.
3. Spirit is taken to be a person, and many in the pews do not consider the Spirit to be a person. Many consider the Spirit to be a power emanating from God. Others believe that the Spirit is the abiding Word of God as he or she accepts the teaching of Christ.
4. Glorify thy name occurs 3 times in the three chorus verses, which oddly is Trinity X Trinity, or 3 X 3, which is 9. The number 9 can imply being aristocratic, romantic, proud, egocentric, arrogant, fickle, cold, and mentally unstable.
5. There is no subtlety in the song. It's in your face. It's a little wooden or stiff, in that it is something that a person who likes geometric symmetry.
6. Repetition gets on many nerves--both in how FSHS are addressed exactly the same, how the desire is the same to all three.
7. Asking God to glorify His name, seems a little odd, since one would think that worshipers should be glorifying His name.
8. Base begins low in the Chorus, and heightens gradually toward the end. The song goes from masculine to feminine in the chorus. Perhaps there is a subliminal message here.
9. The hymn is an affront to those who do not like creeds.
10. Now, what other ways can we glorify God rather than just in Word. In fact, this appears to be AN INFESTATION OF THE WORD OF FAITH DOCTRINE, WHICH SAYS THAT WE CAN SPEAK SOMETHING INTO EXISTENCE. That is, just by saying something we can make it happen. This is Joel Osteen, Joyce Meyer, Kenneth Copeland, and Benny Hinn. By singing "Glorify Thy Name" we speak that into existence. Mankind doesn't have to glorify God, we just need to express to God that He glorify his own name.
11. The "seed money" people are all over the religious sites, asking for donations, with the idea that this amount of money will make the people who send it RICH. In fact, those who receive the SEED MONEY are the ones rich.
12. Watch for ample SCAMS in the some of the modern songs.
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Joined: February 11th, 2016, 11:16 pm

July 25th, 2017, 5:08 pm #4

This was always a conundrum to me. If we worship in spirit, our spirit, with the truth, then what is the purpose of saying now we will do worship in the assembly? Do we need to be told when or how to worship? Can't we worship anytime anywhere? I don't remember such an emphasis put on "worship" until recently.

I agree there was not much emphasis on baptism at the end of the sermon like it used to be. The huge screen blocks the view of the baptistery so it's not in sight anymore.

Teaching for a fee takes the idea of charity to our fellow man and prevents many from being reached. I believe that was the charity that Jesus was showing us. That it is free because he paid the price. No man should be put above another man. That principle was corrupted when we started paying someone to teach over us!
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

July 25th, 2017, 7:47 pm #5

In response to William in discussion of Sabbath vs Sunday--it is all too typical for announcements to be made, after which the announcer says "Now let us begin worship." William brings up some very good ideas.

Then we have a series of worship songs, usually call "praise songs." These songs are generally all directed to(ward) God with little self-improvement and self-edification, and normally the complete absence of conversion songs. The praise team kicks in, and the audience (trapped worshipers) are asked to stand on their feet for three or four songs.

Normally the songs are those derived from about 1980 or later, with the traditional hymns only a small minority of the songs. The traditional hymns found in the humnals do contain a fairly even distribution of conversion, reflection, duty, and other themes than just praise songs. But these themes are considered irrelevant to today's commercial processing of those who come to worship.

I suspect that William worships in such an environment, as do most readers of this thread.

In some churches, when the "worship" is over, there used to be a final song [to end the worship] and then no telling what is going to take place--items that are not classified as worship, but which are either entertaining and secular or whatever.

I would say that William thinks the "Now let us begin worship" should not be stated.

Many churches which fit this pattern are in the process of "transitioning," but are not clear about what this means. One church is in the process of lowering its pulpits and installing a flat 5 inch high stage to accommodate what is not quite clear. These changes look like the Jimmy Swaggert stage. Often the Lord's Table is considered a distraction, and it may be placed in the back of the auditorium, so this "sacrament" no longer is the focal point, but the stage antics become the attraction. In some churches the baptistry is placed in the foyer.

Rather than extend the invitation at the end of the sermon, the audience is instructed "if there is any way we can help you, let us know. The shepherds are in the foyer to give counsel." The "sacrament" of baptism is not mentioned.

The Lord's Supper (called Communion by the transition teams) and baptism seem to be an artifacts rather than working agents.

At the same time, the preacher often says that all the accomplishments of the church members have not been achieved by them, but by the "Holy Spirit" who opens doors and gives growth. The congregation is also informed that the Lord's Supper is not to be a solemn feast of introspection, but an opportunity to TALK to the person next to you all about the preceding week and about the Lord's and Holy Spirit operation. In some churches, members are asked to take a stone at the start of the worship period, and during the Lord's Supper to bring it forward and place it near the Lord's Table. This is to indicate that the "stone" (hindrance) in the worshiper's life is to be removed during this Supper. These comments may be given by a preacher in his 20s who says he knows more about 1 Corinthians 11 and 12 than all the people who have studied these passages for half a century.
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]I provided stats years ago regarding a maximized "contemporary worship service" when there was only one old hymn vs. 14 contemporary "praise songs" during the entire "gathering" period.

Many contemporary congregants now believe that the "worship services" period is mainly comprised of "praise singing" during the entire hour-and-a-half time span. Everything else is adjunct, subordinate, supplementary -- the sermonette, the "Communion." The predominance of music is "worship," AKA "musical worship." So, what's happened to the individual, "non-corporate" worship that Dianna alluded to earlier?

From the "Easter Sunday" celebration from a couple of years ago, the physical cross ramains on display in the "Worship Center" -- the following image resembles what's become a permanet fixture in the "worship center. [Perhaps, Scripture can explain the "beauty" (significance) of the sash]:


When the "invitation" is extended -- which is mainly now to receive counseling from the "shepherds," there's the display on the screen of "the cross" with the verbiage: "Shepherd's Prayer" along with the name of the shepherd designated to lead prayer. Notice "the cross" in both of these images: the cross resembles that which is shown with the Pope and without the Pope:

...

It appears that the trend is towards or going along with the Ecumenical Movement of the Roman Catholic Church: coming home to Mother Church as the "worship pattern."[/color]
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

July 25th, 2017, 9:49 pm #6

Donnie: Many contemporary congregants now believe that the "worship services" period is mainly comprised of "praise singing" during the entire hour-and-a-half time span.

That was the Purpose Driving Jubilee: Rubel Shelly said "the only purpose of the church is to worship."

I listened to Jimmy Swaggart Sunday: they sang the same short phrase over and over and over." Someone would get up and "praise God: let hear that again." Over and over and over and over." That is what Jesus called a laded burden and it is sorcery or witchcraft knowing that they can put you into a different state."

To their credit, I heard a good sermon on Joshua. No one ever sang in Paul's holding of assembly because he understood:

Eph. 3:7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.
Eph. 3:8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
Eph. 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
Eph. 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
Eph. 3:11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
Eph. 3:12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.
Eph. 3:13 Wherefore I desire that ye faint not at my tribulations for you, which is your glory.


This is the creation of the Kingdom of God and Christ which began on Pentecost and is RESERVED UNTO FIRE.. It is to hold those reserved to be cast alive into the lake of fire, the sorcerers, speakers, singers and instrument players." It is to PRESERVE the tiny flock FROM fire. The Mark is the sound of "wind, string and percussion instruments" which Lucifer, the singing and harp-playing prostitute brought with him-her into the garden of Eden."
Last edited by Ken.Sublett on July 25th, 2017, 9:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: February 11th, 2016, 11:16 pm

July 25th, 2017, 9:56 pm #7

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]I provided stats years ago regarding a maximized "contemporary worship service" when there was only one old hymn vs. 14 contemporary "praise songs" during the entire "gathering" period.

Many contemporary congregants now believe that the "worship services" period is mainly comprised of "praise singing" during the entire hour-and-a-half time span. Everything else is adjunct, subordinate, supplementary -- the sermonette, the "Communion." The predominance of music is "worship," AKA "musical worship." So, what's happened to the individual, "non-corporate" worship that Dianna alluded to earlier?

From the "Easter Sunday" celebration from a couple of years ago, the physical cross ramains on display in the "Worship Center" -- the following image resembles what's become a permanet fixture in the "worship center. [Perhaps, Scripture can explain the "beauty" (significance) of the sash]:


When the "invitation" is extended -- which is mainly now to receive counseling from the "shepherds," there's the display on the screen of "the cross" with the verbiage: "Shepherd's Prayer" along with the name of the shepherd designated to lead prayer. Notice "the cross" in both of these images: the cross resembles that which is shown with the Pope and without the Pope:

...

It appears that the trend is towards or going along with the Ecumenical Movement of the Roman Catholic Church: coming home to Mother Church as the "worship pattern."[/color]
I have been reading many different blogs, and even the Catholics are upset at what is being done in their assemblies. Many have disowned the pope and want separate services from the more progressive of their members. They are saying he is a jesuit. I am not too familiar with just what a jesuit does, but it doesn't appear to be a good thing. At least that's what is said on the grapevine.
Many just weren't taught what being Protestant actually meant. It meant a protest against the practices of the priests and pope.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

July 25th, 2017, 10:25 pm #8

The women at LU and other universities are defacto "Jesuits." Hitler used Ignatius as his model of the death camps.

http://www.piney.com/Lipscomb.Universit ... treat.html

http://www.piney.com/Lectito.Divina.html

http://www.piney.com/Lipscomb.Universit ... .2014.html

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July 26th, 2017, 1:52 am #9

The color purple does signify royalty, so that is one meaning of the picture above of the cross with purple sash.

The question I have of the Pope with the cross is that the cross is likely considered essential to the ritual for the Catholics.

If not essential, then why do they always have it.

In an assembly, is the presence of the U.S. flag equal in question as is the cross? Aren't both objects which a spiritual Christianity can do without?

Remember that the flag may imply to some that the Kingdom of God is the same as America. Billy Graham thought this for a long time, but after the Watergate debacle and the cursing from Washington, I understand that he began to change.

Pertaining to the cross, remember that worship in the New Testament era is according to spirit, while the physical cross is closer to the objects used in Old Testament times. Christian is a religion of the heart, not of the object.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

July 26th, 2017, 2:44 am #10



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