Community Church or Commune? How to find a CULT.

Community Church or Commune? How to find a CULT.

Ken Sublett
Ken Sublett

September 26th, 2006, 11:49 pm #1

You can identify a CULT as having a dominant leader or "pastor," a theater of operations, the demand to support the cult leader and the urge to use his friends to COMMUNE the people to regulate their lives throughout the week and suck up as much of the money as possible. The COMMUNITY CHURCH is now defined explicitely as a COMMUNE where the individual loses the right to "read, interpret and speak the Word outside of the COMMUNITY reading."

That probably defines YOUR church whether it calls itself liberal or conservative. This is a REPUDIATION of the REST and liberty FROM these people for which Jesus died. Jesus said that the doctors of the Law "take away the key to knowledge." Then ASK your usurping elders why they have the urge to hire advanced degrees in Bible, theater or philosophy? You have NO duty to pay them. You have the FINAL vote: those who support cults ARE members of a CULT and not the synagogue of Christ.

You probably need urgent DEprogramming to get the liberty FROM the cult leader.

Let the DEprogramming begin: We can identify an EKKLESIA by the meaning of the word and what the assemblies (synagogues) were commanded to do and what the historical assemblies did.

Furthermore, the word EKKLESIA has God in Christ pointing to an existing assembly so that we are not at the mercy of the MOSTLY mercinaries who CORRUPT or "sell learning at retail" This was not unlike the synagogue or church in the wilderness to which the godly people met to READ and REHEARSE the Word. Priests and Levites did not hold "church services" but were SUPPOSED to be evangelists going out to teach the people.

There are many examples in the Greek literature. For instance, the early teachers in the church--like all priestly roles--had a vocation and preached the FREE gospel free of charge. They historically tutored students who paid when being taught or they made tents. The student did not have the teacher MOVE IN and take over his living. Protagoras exemplified this ETHICAL role for the teacher and defined the assembly which met for DIALOG. Like so many historical accounts of the civil ekklesia or social festival, they excluded poets, singers and musicians because literate and ethical people did not NEED the musicians just as they did not NEED lots of wine to speak ONE to ANOTHER.

Paul outlawed the personal diversities from dialog and directly commanded a "one another" teaching of "that which is written." He told the Romans that they were competent to TEACH ONE ANOTHER. The outlawing of PLEASING self literally outlaws all of the HYPOCRITIC ares of performance.

Plato, Protagoras

Protagoras was the first who called himself a Sophist, and taught for pay; and he practised his profession for the space of forty years. He says exactly what Jesus exampled, Paul commanded and the historic church practiced befor the apostasy:

<font color=red>[347a] But as it is, since you lie so grievously about the greatest matters with an air of speaking the truth, on this score I reproach you."
  • Such is my view, Prodicus and Protagoras, I said, of Simonides' intention in composing this ode.
[347c] But if he does not mind, let us talk no more of poems and verses, but consider the points on which I questioned you at first, Protagoras, and on which I should be glad to reach, with your help, a conclusion. </font>
  • Poems are<font color=blue> Poi-êsis A. fabrication, creation, production, mimêsis [acting] 2. of Poetry, hê tôn dithurambôn p., tês tragôidias, tôn epôn III. method of procedure, in Magic</font>

    In Athenian Law it was not lawful to send out a philosopher of poet as a kerusso, herald or preacher.
<font color=red>For it seems to me that arguing about poetry
is comparable to the wine-parties of common market-folk.

These people, owing to their INABILITY to carry on a familiar conversation OVER THEIR WINE by means of their own voices and discussions--</font>
  • The wine parties are what Paul outlawed. When Paul said not to be given to wine he meant DON'T GO NEAR these wine-drinking meetings.

    <font color=blue>James A. Towle, Commentary on Plato: Protagoras

    Sumposiois: this custom is followed in Xen. Symp. 2. 1 erchetai tis autois epi kômon (revel) Surakosios anthrôpos, echôn te aulêtrida [flute-girls] agathên kai orchêstrida [dancing-girl] tôn ta thaumata dunamenôn poiein kai paida panu ge hôraion kai panu kalôs kitharizonta [harp of Apollo] kai orchoumenon. [dancing] These show their skill during the whole banquet. Plato, however, has the same view as the one here, when he says Symp. 176 e eisêgoumai tên men arti eiselthousan aulêtrida chairein ean, aulousan heautêi, ê an boulêtai tais gunaixi tais endon, hêmas de dia logôn allêlois suneinai to têmeron</font>

    Remember that Jesus accused the Jews of being like children (abused) in the marketplace or Agora trying to force others to dance and lament. Jesus refused to bow.

    <font color=blue>Market is where you: Agoraios, on, (fem. -aia epith. of Artemis and Athena, v. infr.):-

    A. in, of, or belonging to the agora, Zeus A. as guardian of popular assemblies, Hdt.5.46, A.Eu.973 (lyr.), E.Heracl.70; Hermês as patron of traffic

    II. traders (i.e. sutlers), Ael.Tact.2.2:--hence, the common sort, low fellows, of agitators, Act.Ap.17.5, baser sort,

    2. of things, vulgar, III. generally, proper to the agora, skilled in, suited for forensic speaking </font>
<font color=red>[347d] such is their lack of education--
put a premium on flute-girls by hiring the extraneous voice of the flute at a HIGH PRICE,
  • and carry on their intercourse by means of its utterance.

    But where the party consists of thorough gentlemen who have had a proper education,

    you will see neither flute-girls nor dancing-girls nor harp-girls,

    but only the company contenting themselves with their own conversation,
    and none of these fooleries and frolics
    --each speaking AND listening decently in his turn,
</font>Paul defined this "take turns dialog" in 1 Cor 14 as opposed to "singing out of their own spirit."

Remember also that Paul OUTLAWED the pleasuring for the synagogue in Romans 15. The word ARESKOS is similor to HEDONISTIC:
  • <font color=blue>Suneimi: To be joined with, Intercourse is II. to have intercourse with a person, live with hêdonê, desires after pleasure, pleasant lusts, voluptuosus,

    Hêdonê , 3. Pl., desires after PLEASURE, pleasant lusts, X.Mem.1.2.23, Ep.Tit.3.3, al. dêmêgorein [DEMAGOGUE]

    Tit 3:3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and PLEASURES, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.

    Deceived by "wandering stars is Planao (g4105) plan-ah'-o; from 4106; to (prop. cause to) roam (from safety, truth, or virtue): - go astray, deceive, err, seduce, wander, be out of the way.

    Plane (g4106) plan'-ay; fem. of 4108 (as abstr.); obj. fraudulence; subj. a straying from orthodoxy or piety: - deceit, to deceive, delusion, error.

    Woe unto them for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core. Ju.1:11</font>
<font color=red>[347e] even though they may drink a great deal of wine.
  • And so a gathering like this of ours, when it includes such men as most of us claim to be,
    requires no extraneous voices,
    not EVEN of the poets, whom one cannot question on the sense of what they say; when they are adduced in discussion

    we are generally told by some that the poet thought so and so, and by others, something different, and they go on arguing about a matter which they are powerless to determine.
    No, this sort of meeting is avoided by men of culture,
</font>That is why Paul equated instruments and singing to speaking in tongues.
  • <font color=blue>Dialegô, to discourse, reason Id.Marc.18:--the Act. in med. sense, Hermipp.40; hoi 2. in Philosophy, practise dialectic, elicit conclusions by discussion

    Xenophon, Memorabilia [11] "Socrates," said Euthydemus, "I think you mean that he who is
    at the mercy of the bodily pleasures
    has no concern whatever with virtue in any form."


    "Yes, Euthydemus;
    for how can an incontinent man
    be any better than the dullest beast?


    How can he who fails to consider the things that matter most,
    and strives by every means to do the things that are
    most pleasant,
    be better than the stupidest of creatures?

    No, only the self-controlled have power to consider the things that matter most, and, sorting them out after their kind, by word and deed alike to prefer the good and reject the evil."

    [12] And thus, he said, men become supremely good and happy and skilled in discussion. The very word "discussion," [dialegomai] according to him, owes its name to the practice of meeting TOGETHER for common deliberation, sorting, discussing things after their kind: and therefore one should be ready and prepared for this and be zealous for it; for it makes for excellence, leadership and skill in discussion.

    Suneimi 1 [eimi sum] I. to be with, be joined or linked with a thing</font>
<font color=red>[348a] who prefer to converse directly with each other, and to use their own way of speech in putting one another by turns to the test.
  • it is this sort of person that I think you and I ought rather to imitate;

    putting the poets aside,
    let us hold our discussion together in our own persons,
    making trial of the truth and of ourselves.
</font>If you are grouping with hundreds or thousands of "audience" it is literally impossible to be a true EKKLESIA. The ekklesia, as Thomas Campbell grasped was a SUNDAY SCHOOL CLASS. His friends thought that every member should become a Bible scholar. To that Jesus instituted, Paul commanded and the church practiced the Lord's Supper.

If the use poets, singers or musicians then you CANNOT be an ekklesia: they cannot do YEAS and NAYS. The literature notes that when males do this they had to be drunk or homosexuals.

If you PREACH a composed sermon by cutting and pasting Scriptures then you are PERVERTING the inspired Word of God and have no intention of TEACHING that which has been taught.

If you pay a STAFF INFECTION to preach, sing, do theater, regulate family lives or even ADMINISTER a token ALMS then you CANNOT be an ekklesia because that apostasy came hundreds of years too late.

If you preach THE LAW OF GIVING to support the INSTITUTE then you CANNOT be a faithful assembly of Christ. If you GIVE for such purposes then YOU are robbing the poor as the only historical hint of voluntary giving as a group.

If they try to COMMUNE you or make you a FAMILY then be assured that you are deeply hooked into a CULT and you may never get out.
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Ken Sublett
Ken Sublett

September 27th, 2006, 1:30 pm #2

I have about a three hour date with my dentist: one tooth a Navy dentist tried to pull 53 years ago finally gotta go. Other work: so I will need to take time out to whine for a spell.

While waiting, let me tell you that the LOUDER they yell about their "theater for holy entertainment" being built on Christ and Him crucified, the MORE we all know that it is all built on the LAW OF GIVING and now THE LAW OF TITHING when the preachercator HAS NOT given us a free MEANS OF PRODUCTION.

When free will giving AUTOMATICALLY leads to the invasion of the purse snatchers, you have the deliberate sowing of discord by terminally ignorant and terminally arrogant pseudo-preachers robbing widows and robbing the mission fields.

So, for the slow readers, your assignment, if you decide to take it, is to REFUTE my raw assertion that Paul actually OUTLAWS the LAW OF GIVING for those who can hold 1 Corinthians 16 in mind long enough to read 2 Corinthians 8 and 9.

Now, connect that--if you can--with the historic church where "proportional giving" REALLY meant that those who PROSPERED during the week gave to the DESTITUTE--"but only if they were willing." That means from the HAND of the surplus to the HAND of the destitute without anyone COUNTING. The word POOR translates to "steet people" and NOT to actors playing preacher but without a GO button.

If you decide to pick up your assignment, be aware that Piney has collected most of the historical testimony about collection plates and I don't think you can PROVE that which you use to CULTIFY a group of honorable people.
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Roger Bradley
Roger Bradley

September 27th, 2006, 7:11 pm #3

You can identify a CULT as having a dominant leader or "pastor," a theater of operations, the demand to support the cult leader and the urge to use his friends to COMMUNE the people to regulate their lives throughout the week and suck up as much of the money as possible. The COMMUNITY CHURCH is now defined explicitely as a COMMUNE where the individual loses the right to "read, interpret and speak the Word outside of the COMMUNITY reading."

That probably defines YOUR church whether it calls itself liberal or conservative. This is a REPUDIATION of the REST and liberty FROM these people for which Jesus died. Jesus said that the doctors of the Law "take away the key to knowledge." Then ASK your usurping elders why they have the urge to hire advanced degrees in Bible, theater or philosophy? You have NO duty to pay them. You have the FINAL vote: those who support cults ARE members of a CULT and not the synagogue of Christ.

You probably need urgent DEprogramming to get the liberty FROM the cult leader.

Let the DEprogramming begin: We can identify an EKKLESIA by the meaning of the word and what the assemblies (synagogues) were commanded to do and what the historical assemblies did.

Furthermore, the word EKKLESIA has God in Christ pointing to an existing assembly so that we are not at the mercy of the MOSTLY mercinaries who CORRUPT or "sell learning at retail" This was not unlike the synagogue or church in the wilderness to which the godly people met to READ and REHEARSE the Word. Priests and Levites did not hold "church services" but were SUPPOSED to be evangelists going out to teach the people.

There are many examples in the Greek literature. For instance, the early teachers in the church--like all priestly roles--had a vocation and preached the FREE gospel free of charge. They historically tutored students who paid when being taught or they made tents. The student did not have the teacher MOVE IN and take over his living. Protagoras exemplified this ETHICAL role for the teacher and defined the assembly which met for DIALOG. Like so many historical accounts of the civil ekklesia or social festival, they excluded poets, singers and musicians because literate and ethical people did not NEED the musicians just as they did not NEED lots of wine to speak ONE to ANOTHER.

Paul outlawed the personal diversities from dialog and directly commanded a "one another" teaching of "that which is written." He told the Romans that they were competent to TEACH ONE ANOTHER. The outlawing of PLEASING self literally outlaws all of the HYPOCRITIC ares of performance.

Plato, Protagoras

Protagoras was the first who called himself a Sophist, and taught for pay; and he practised his profession for the space of forty years. He says exactly what Jesus exampled, Paul commanded and the historic church practiced befor the apostasy:

<font color=red>[347a] But as it is, since you lie so grievously about the greatest matters with an air of speaking the truth, on this score I reproach you."
  • Such is my view, Prodicus and Protagoras, I said, of Simonides' intention in composing this ode.
[347c] But if he does not mind, let us talk no more of poems and verses, but consider the points on which I questioned you at first, Protagoras, and on which I should be glad to reach, with your help, a conclusion. </font>
  • Poems are<font color=blue> Poi-êsis A. fabrication, creation, production, mimêsis [acting] 2. of Poetry, hê tôn dithurambôn p., tês tragôidias, tôn epôn III. method of procedure, in Magic</font>

    In Athenian Law it was not lawful to send out a philosopher of poet as a kerusso, herald or preacher.
<font color=red>For it seems to me that arguing about poetry
is comparable to the wine-parties of common market-folk.

These people, owing to their INABILITY to carry on a familiar conversation OVER THEIR WINE by means of their own voices and discussions--</font>
  • The wine parties are what Paul outlawed. When Paul said not to be given to wine he meant DON'T GO NEAR these wine-drinking meetings.

    <font color=blue>James A. Towle, Commentary on Plato: Protagoras

    Sumposiois: this custom is followed in Xen. Symp. 2. 1 erchetai tis autois epi kômon (revel) Surakosios anthrôpos, echôn te aulêtrida [flute-girls] agathên kai orchêstrida [dancing-girl] tôn ta thaumata dunamenôn poiein kai paida panu ge hôraion kai panu kalôs kitharizonta [harp of Apollo] kai orchoumenon. [dancing] These show their skill during the whole banquet. Plato, however, has the same view as the one here, when he says Symp. 176 e eisêgoumai tên men arti eiselthousan aulêtrida chairein ean, aulousan heautêi, ê an boulêtai tais gunaixi tais endon, hêmas de dia logôn allêlois suneinai to têmeron</font>

    Remember that Jesus accused the Jews of being like children (abused) in the marketplace or Agora trying to force others to dance and lament. Jesus refused to bow.

    <font color=blue>Market is where you: Agoraios, on, (fem. -aia epith. of Artemis and Athena, v. infr.):-

    A. in, of, or belonging to the agora, Zeus A. as guardian of popular assemblies, Hdt.5.46, A.Eu.973 (lyr.), E.Heracl.70; Hermês as patron of traffic

    II. traders (i.e. sutlers), Ael.Tact.2.2:--hence, the common sort, low fellows, of agitators, Act.Ap.17.5, baser sort,

    2. of things, vulgar, III. generally, proper to the agora, skilled in, suited for forensic speaking </font>
<font color=red>[347d] such is their lack of education--
put a premium on flute-girls by hiring the extraneous voice of the flute at a HIGH PRICE,
  • and carry on their intercourse by means of its utterance.

    But where the party consists of thorough gentlemen who have had a proper education,

    you will see neither flute-girls nor dancing-girls nor harp-girls,

    but only the company contenting themselves with their own conversation,
    and none of these fooleries and frolics
    --each speaking AND listening decently in his turn,
</font>Paul defined this "take turns dialog" in 1 Cor 14 as opposed to "singing out of their own spirit."

Remember also that Paul OUTLAWED the pleasuring for the synagogue in Romans 15. The word ARESKOS is similor to HEDONISTIC:
  • <font color=blue>Suneimi: To be joined with, Intercourse is II. to have intercourse with a person, live with hêdonê, desires after pleasure, pleasant lusts, voluptuosus,

    Hêdonê , 3. Pl., desires after PLEASURE, pleasant lusts, X.Mem.1.2.23, Ep.Tit.3.3, al. dêmêgorein [DEMAGOGUE]

    Tit 3:3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and PLEASURES, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.

    Deceived by "wandering stars is Planao (g4105) plan-ah'-o; from 4106; to (prop. cause to) roam (from safety, truth, or virtue): - go astray, deceive, err, seduce, wander, be out of the way.

    Plane (g4106) plan'-ay; fem. of 4108 (as abstr.); obj. fraudulence; subj. a straying from orthodoxy or piety: - deceit, to deceive, delusion, error.

    Woe unto them for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core. Ju.1:11</font>
<font color=red>[347e] even though they may drink a great deal of wine.
  • And so a gathering like this of ours, when it includes such men as most of us claim to be,
    requires no extraneous voices,
    not EVEN of the poets, whom one cannot question on the sense of what they say; when they are adduced in discussion

    we are generally told by some that the poet thought so and so, and by others, something different, and they go on arguing about a matter which they are powerless to determine.
    No, this sort of meeting is avoided by men of culture,
</font>That is why Paul equated instruments and singing to speaking in tongues.
  • <font color=blue>Dialegô, to discourse, reason Id.Marc.18:--the Act. in med. sense, Hermipp.40; hoi 2. in Philosophy, practise dialectic, elicit conclusions by discussion

    Xenophon, Memorabilia [11] "Socrates," said Euthydemus, "I think you mean that he who is
    at the mercy of the bodily pleasures
    has no concern whatever with virtue in any form."


    "Yes, Euthydemus;
    for how can an incontinent man
    be any better than the dullest beast?


    How can he who fails to consider the things that matter most,
    and strives by every means to do the things that are
    most pleasant,
    be better than the stupidest of creatures?

    No, only the self-controlled have power to consider the things that matter most, and, sorting them out after their kind, by word and deed alike to prefer the good and reject the evil."

    [12] And thus, he said, men become supremely good and happy and skilled in discussion. The very word "discussion," [dialegomai] according to him, owes its name to the practice of meeting TOGETHER for common deliberation, sorting, discussing things after their kind: and therefore one should be ready and prepared for this and be zealous for it; for it makes for excellence, leadership and skill in discussion.

    Suneimi 1 [eimi sum] I. to be with, be joined or linked with a thing</font>
<font color=red>[348a] who prefer to converse directly with each other, and to use their own way of speech in putting one another by turns to the test.
  • it is this sort of person that I think you and I ought rather to imitate;

    putting the poets aside,
    let us hold our discussion together in our own persons,
    making trial of the truth and of ourselves.
</font>If you are grouping with hundreds or thousands of "audience" it is literally impossible to be a true EKKLESIA. The ekklesia, as Thomas Campbell grasped was a SUNDAY SCHOOL CLASS. His friends thought that every member should become a Bible scholar. To that Jesus instituted, Paul commanded and the church practiced the Lord's Supper.

If the use poets, singers or musicians then you CANNOT be an ekklesia: they cannot do YEAS and NAYS. The literature notes that when males do this they had to be drunk or homosexuals.

If you PREACH a composed sermon by cutting and pasting Scriptures then you are PERVERTING the inspired Word of God and have no intention of TEACHING that which has been taught.

If you pay a STAFF INFECTION to preach, sing, do theater, regulate family lives or even ADMINISTER a token ALMS then you CANNOT be an ekklesia because that apostasy came hundreds of years too late.

If you preach THE LAW OF GIVING to support the INSTITUTE then you CANNOT be a faithful assembly of Christ. If you GIVE for such purposes then YOU are robbing the poor as the only historical hint of voluntary giving as a group.

If they try to COMMUNE you or make you a FAMILY then be assured that you are deeply hooked into a CULT and you may never get out.
How to find a cult?????
Why would you even be looking for one?

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Nadab
Nadab

September 29th, 2006, 4:19 am #4

Roger-
E-mail me, and I'll tell you WHY he's looking for a cult. Or was that a rhetorical question? I have a feeling you already know.
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Ken Sublett
Ken Sublett

September 29th, 2006, 4:09 pm #5

Nadab knows nothing about this writer she has not hallucinated or heard from other desperate and dangerouse preacher's wives who conclave with others of same kind. When someone says "the kings/queens have no clothes" they blame the OUTER for their nakedness. That is why ALMOST no one DARES CALL IT HERESY and not related to the Restoration Movement of yore.

You remember that Paul wanted NO collections after he arrived in Corinth: his presence would be an EXTORTING influence and he equates extortioners to adulterers as does Peter who said that the MOSTLY corrupt the Word meaning "sell learning at retail." Because Paul might be there three months he did NOT want them to observe THE LAW OF GIVING.

I want ALL of those on the dole to say WHO, ME a CULT LEADER? I want you to look in the GLASS DARKLY and say, we have met the cults face to face and it is us.

Watch for my very soon post proving that the MUSES or LOCUSTS or POISONERS or ENCHANTERS or SORCERERS/ESS are identified as SCAPE-GOATS for Satan or Azazel as the end time subconsious (or unconsious) urge to DEFLECT terminal guilt from the group. They always used WORTHLESS PEOPLE.

ALL of the information for the First Advent was prophesied: not a single SECTARIAN (meaning on the dole) grasped a single bit. Because Jesus was not DIONYSUS their expected perverted messiah, they murdered Him. WHY do YOU think that you will grasp a single CLEARLY PROPHESIED event for the Last Advent? All performance preachers, singers, musicians or dramatists (Jesus called Hypocrites) have a PREDESTINATED role to play: to KEEP you from hearing the Word AS IT WAS DELIVERED by God in Christ and "face to face" witnesses. Works real good, Huh?

It is ALL built upon the foundation of THE LAW OF GIVING.
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