Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

January 9th, 2016, 9:20 pm #41

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Do you mean "Disciples of Christ" as a religious denomination? Or are you referring to followers or learners who are disciples of Christ? For example, I am (as an individual Christian) a disciple of Christ.[/color]
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

January 9th, 2016, 10:32 pm #42

H. Leo Boles on unity although his trinitarianism sowed discord.

http://www.piney.com/Unity.Boles.html

Contrary to all of the hate accusing Churches of Christ with being SECTARIAN by splitting the church over music, what be came churches of Christ were never joined in any but the usual fraternal fellowship which existed among all denominations before the introduction of societies, denominational organization and instruments (the organ only, we pledge!).

The Disciples of Christ-Christian churches especially the Stoneites agreed to disregard doctrinal differences (wow) in 1832: Their creed would have stopped any of the trouble among the Disciples. Alexander Campbell, A Reformed Baptists at the time proves that there was no unity before or after the handshake of a few preachers. This pledge was ignored before the ink was dry with both Stone and Campbell agreeing that there could ever be any unity since they held nothing but the Bible in common.

This is to dispel the probable notion that what the Disciples did or do has any relationship to the Churches of Christ who never even hallucinated a role for music as performance or the use of instruments.

The Organ developing into a larger band or orchestra and Choir pretty much disables congregational singing or ability to be heard. Most of these groups cannot handle complex harmony.

Conservative Christian churches have been driven into SPLIT WORSHIP where the organ-piano has been replaced by other instruments and singing performers. My experiences have been congregational singing in Christian Churches: the organ - piano has even been silenced when we were present.
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Rocky
Rocky

January 10th, 2016, 3:20 pm #43


Ken, I think your beef is really with PERFORMANCE singing in the Church. Let's just leave it at that. Donnie, do you concur?
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

January 10th, 2016, 4:50 pm #44

An APT elder is commanded to Teach that which HAS BEEN TAUGHT. The elder should never use OUR preferences to substitute for that WHICH HAS BEEN TAUGHT or THAT WHICH IS WRITTEN FOR OUR LEARNING.

The question is: Why would Disciples of Christ commanded to teach and observe what HE commanded want to fill up a large part of the assembly with singing because they truly believe that:

Singing is an ACT of God commanded
If we violate the LAW of singing we SIN
ALL singing is jacked up into PERFORMANCE with everyone racing to DO MY PART and no one worshiping God by GIVING ATTENTION to His finished songs and sermons.

If The Spirit OF Christ said that He provides the fruit of the lips
And in Isaiah 58 He commands NOT to seek our own pleasure or SPEAK OUR OWN WORDS
And Paul commanded that we "use one mind and one mouth to speak that which is written for out LEARNING
And Paul in Hebrews 13 commands that we use the fruit of the LIPS
Why would people hire or use the best SANGER money can buy to lead us into performing NOTHING that is supplied by being written for our LEARNING.
LEARNING in the assembly is the ONE-PIECE pattern so you don't know a church which cares much about that which is written.

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Rocky
Rocky

January 10th, 2016, 10:10 pm #45



Acts 16:25 New King James Version (NKJV)

25 But at midnight Paul and Silas were praying and singing hymns to God, and the prisoners were listening to them.

***

Ken, you just can not blow this off. This verse is the "EXAMPLE" that allows Church Singing. A smart fellow (moderator) that stays up all night explained this EXAMPLE to me.

It's a wrap!

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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

January 10th, 2016, 10:22 pm #46

I thought I told you that when they cast you in prison singing and playing your guitar would be fine. I believe that there are only about 5 hymns in the book of psalms. It would be fine to make up your own but I would be careful about singing about wanting to sit in God's lap and dare to dance with him!

humn-eō , Ep. humneiō Hes.Op.2;
I. with acc. of person or thing sung OF, sing of, first in Hes.Th.11,33,
also in Prose, celebrate in a hymn, commemorate, “Ōpin” Hdt. 4.35;
humnos humnēsen” S.Ant.815
2. descant upon, in song or speech, “en katērephei stegē . . humnēseis kaka”
II. tell over and over again, harp upon, repeat, recite
ton nomon humnein recite the form of the law


People trained in an oral tradition gathered to read and memorize a passage: then they could sing to themselves all week or even on the street corners. The Jewish Holy Convocation on first and last days of festivals and later each REST day has that definition.

Why not break any passage into syllables, sing it, memorize it and next week close the Bible: after all LEARNING is about the only obligation of a DISCIPLE.
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

January 10th, 2016, 10:46 pm #47


Acts 16:25 New King James Version (NKJV)

25 But at midnight Paul and Silas were praying and singing hymns to God, and the prisoners were listening to them.

***

Ken, you just can not blow this off. This verse is the "EXAMPLE" that allows Church Singing. A smart fellow (moderator) that stays up all night explained this EXAMPLE to me.

It's a wrap!
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Oops, I didn't realize that when Paul and Silas sang, it was "church singing." Nor was the event when the disciples went out into the Mount of Olives "church singing." That reminds me also of events when David played instrumental music that it was "church singing."[/color]
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

January 11th, 2016, 1:41 am #48

No problem: ALL of the once-christian colleges can't get it "straight." They can lift out by the screaming roots any and all mention of any musical term or instrument and say that "s" spirit told them to OUT his vision and impose "instruments" knowing and planning that he would sow massive discord but, hey, "we gonna save more souls" or "we gonna be evangelistic even if we have to cast 2/3 of the owners out of their synagogue."

No one! Not a single "scholar" can grasp the difference between SCHOOL OF CHRIST and singing while up to your neck in prison.

They would keep Jesus from being the ONLY master teacher when the elders as the only Pastor-Teachers purpose driven to take the lambs to the GRASS so that they can eat but NOT beside rushing waters.

At the same time, their tutu would fall off if a baby cried while THEY are speaking out of their own head.

John 8:22 Then said the Jews, Will he kill himself?
<font color="#FFFFFF">.....
because he saith, Whither I go, ye cannot come.
John 8:23 And he said unto them,
.....Ye are from beneath; I am from above:
.....ye are of this world; I am not of this world.


As Jude warned you and almost no one catches on, below is:

katō , “hoi k. theoi” Id.El.292, cf. E.Alc.851.
Adv., (kata): b In the world below, S.Aj.660, OC1563 (lyr.), etc.; hoi k. the dead, Id.Aj.865, Ant.75, etc.;
ESPECIALLY of the nether world, A.Pers.839, S.Ant.197, etc.;
g. in Logic, ta k. the lower members in a descending series of genera and species,


The BEASTS in Genesis were not capable of being spouse of the elevated form of ADAM.

More tomorrow: remember that the Spirit OF Christ said that the Jews "had a covenant with death and Hell" and claimed that they COULD NOT be lost.

That's why they are so INSTITUTIONALIZED and promoting the WORLD VIEW or ecumenical which is the reign of Satan. Jude affirms:

Jude 3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
Jude 4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, AND our Lord Jesus Christ.

They cannot even SEE that "AND"


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Last edited by Ken.Sublett on January 11th, 2016, 1:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

January 11th, 2016, 6:06 am #49

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]You noticed that I was responding to Rocky with the "Oops!" (I was being facetious. I knew Rocky would be tolerant in that regard.)

Seriously:

Musical enthusiasts desperately look for "scriptures" that mention the word "sing" or "sang" or "singing" and conclude that the word has reference to "church singing."

(1) They consider the Paul and Silas event in prison "church singing" (and I wonder if it was a duet ).
(2) They consider the mount of Olives event "church singing" (when the church had not been established then).
(3) They consider David's playing of musical instruments "church music" (and what was David's congregation?).

For man to command "church music" and demand that is an "act of worship" is hardly "contending for the faith once delivered unto the saints."[/color]
Last edited by Donnie.Cruz on January 11th, 2016, 6:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

January 11th, 2016, 5:48 pm #50

Yes, I caught on to that: even when Paul uses the "singing" words in no assembly mentioned in Scripture is there any mention of "singing". So, it is never a question of can we or can't we but what does Scripture really say. Evil men have grasped upon the long-standing quiet congregational singing to make it, as the say, making "worship" into a SHOCK AND AWE spectacle. David actually commanded the PLACE:

Psa. 149:4 For the LORD taketh pleasure in his people:
<font color="#FFFFFF">.....
he will beautify the meek with salvation.
Psa. 149:5 Let the saints be joyful in glory:
.....let them sing aloud upon their beds.


But,

Psa. 149:6 Let the high praises of God be in their mouth,
.....and a twoedged sword in their hand;
Psa. 149:7 To execute vengeance upon the heathen,
.....and punishments upon the people;


When you use David as your PATTERN you are BLIND and DEAF by God's Direct Operation: When you have females PERFORMING and being lascivious meaning to take liberty with the language you have ARRIVED and they are taught to LOVE TO HAVE IT SO. All skilled PERFORMERS (legalists) make the modern "worship ritual" into a defacto sexual activity according to Wimber of Fuller and the wineskinners.



The LU Bible Guru teaches that THERE WAS NOTHING WRONG WITH THEIR WORSHIP: they just had a bad mental attitude.

Amos 6:3 Ye that put far away the evil day,
.....and cause the seat of violence to come near;
Amos 6:4 That
.....lie upon beds of ivory,
.....and stretch themselves upon their couches,
.....and eat the lambs out of the flock,
.....and the calves out of the midst of the stall;
Amos 6:5 That chant to the sound of the viol,
.....and invent to themselves instruments of musick, like David;


lectus A. A bridal bed: lectus genialis, the nuptial-bed, which, after the marriage, was called adversus (because it stood opposite the door)
B. A couch for reclining on at meals, a dining- or eating-couch

lascīvĭo , ĭi, ītum, 4, v. n. lascivus,
I. [select] to be wanton, petulant, sportive, to sport, frisk, frolic, modo [the Musical Melody Word] exsultasse,
Esp.: “in Venerem,” to be lascivious, Col. 6, 24, 2.—

Amos 5:23 Take thou away from me the noise of thy songs; for I will not hear the melody of thy viols

23] aufer a me tumultum carminum tuorum et cantica lyrae tuae non audiam

Amos 5:24 BUT let judgment run down as waters, and righteousness as a mighty stream.

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